Mount Olive Township Council Minutes
May 9, 2000

The Regular meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to Order at 7:45pm by Council President Sohl.

According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this meeting has been given to the Mount Olive Chronicle and the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at the entrance of the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Heymann, Mr. Guenther (8:30pm), Mr. Scapicchio, Mrs. Kelly, Mr. Spino, Mr. Rattner, President Sohl

President Sohl: Did we hear from Mr. Guenther?

Mr. Rattner: I believe he=s at an MUA meeting and will be here shortly.

President Sohl: Okay, good. I would also like to acknowledge the attendance of the Mayor, Paul Licitra; the Acting Business Administrator, Bob Casey; the Township Attorney, John Dorsey; and Township Clerk, Lisa Lashway. We have a couple of Presentations this evening.

Mayor Licitra: I just want to say a couple of words before the presentations. I=m glad the room is packed, because we have a person here tonight that has always been very giving to this Township, and people don=t know how giving the Trade Zone and Les Smith has been to this TownshipBand when we really needed help because we were losing a soccer field a couple of years ago, and we were scamperingBDave (Scapicchio), Earl (Spino), and I were up with Les Smith and we were complaining about the fact that we were going to be losing soccer fields. Without hesitation, Les Smith said, AI have some land. I=m not building on it right now.@ He said, AI=ll help you maintain it, I=ll help you get it into order, and I=ll keep it maintained for you.@ Never asking anything from us. He dedicated this land to the soccer program for the time being, because in a couple of years, we hope to have our own fields to play on. So, I=m having the President of the Soccer League, who=s been working with Les Smith, make a presentation on behalf of the Soccer League, and also, Les Smith.

Presentations: FTZ Soccer Fields (Les Smith) - Pete Jaran & Mayor Licitra

Mr. Jaran: Thank you, Paul. Back in 1998, the voters approved the School Budget, which included construction of a new Middle School. Although this was great for our children=s education, it meant the end to a long term usage of Centennial Field as the home for Mt. Olive Soccer Club. As you can imagine, there was a lot of concern within our membership about where our children would play soccer. Through the support of Les Smith, and the efforts of Councilman Paul Licitra, the International Trade Center designated a nine-acre parcel for use as a temporary home for the Soccer Club. Les Smith and the ITC constructed soccer fields, a driveway, a 200-car parking lot at no cost to the soccer club. The area was ready for use in the spring of 1999, allowing us to make a smooth transition to the ITC fields on Love Lane. Our initial agreement with Les was for use of the fields for two years ending this December. We recently asked for, and were granted an additional year to allow us to construct a permanent home at Turkeybrook. On a few occasions over the last year and a half, the Soccer Club has asked for improvements to the Love Lane Fields. Each request has been supported and approved by Les Smith, and the work completed at no cost to the Club. This is only one of many examples of Les= support and contributions to Mt. Olive. This relationship is an example of how business can support the Community to complete a project that benefits both the Community and business. On May 20th, the Mt. Olive Soccer Club in conjunction with ITC and Snickers will sponsor the Second Annual Snickers Corporate Cup at the ITC Love Lane Fields. This is a One-Day Adult Soccer Tournament for company teams. Behind all of the projects and successes mentioned is the unwavering support and generosity of Les Smith. As President of the Mt. Olive Soccer Club, with the support of the Club=s Board of Directors, the Mayor, Township Council, and 800 children that use the Love Lane Fields every day, I would like to thank Les Smith and the ITC for all the support. I have a plaque, and the plaque reads: AThe Mayor, Township Council, and Mt. Olive Soccer Club sincerely thank and appreciate the use of the Love Lane Soccer Fields from the Foreign Trade Zone.@ Thank you.

Mr. Les Smith: First, I would like to thank you very much, Peter, and the entire organization, and the Town Council. I pledge on behalf of my partners, the Rockafeller Group that we will continue our support wherever and whenever we can. Thank you.

President Sohl: Thank you. The next item on our Agenda is the Presentation by Councilman Rattner.

Mt. Olive Marching Band

Mr. Rattner: A few years ago, we set up and award called our Civic Achievement Award to identify significant accomplishments of the citizens of Mt. Olive. Tonight, we want to recognize all the members of the 1999 - 2000 Mt. Olive High School Marching Band. This Band, this past November, at Giants Stadium won the United States Scholastic Band Association Group 2A Championship. This is now becoming a major competition in the United States, gathering bands from all over the Eastern United States and Canada. So, it=s competing against the best of the best. The Marching Band has really reached the level of any of the scholastic sports that are in the High School. It involves just as much, or actually more work. The members of the Band know that it starts in August, when some people are still on vacation, something called ABand Camp@ where it=s five days straight, nine hours a day, regardless of how hot or what the weather is, to really get everybody in shape to just start the program. The Band takes all comers. Each year, you lose a certain amount of Seniors, and you gain, hopefully more new Freshman coming in. So these are really what we=ll call Agreen@ members who have to learn everything from learning to play and walk at the same time. When it comes to competition, every one of them are watched, they=re in step, every note is measured. There are a number of judges up high on the field. Some specifically watching certain sections, some just watching marching, and every part is measured. Also, the amount of time that is spent is really unbelievable. When you consider the youth of today, everything that they=re doingBnot only the practice that they have all week, but there are times when they will play at the football game, and get home late Friday night, and have to be back at the High School early Saturday morning, maybe travel a couple hundred miles for a competition, to Pennsylvania, Virginia, and may even have another one the next day. This is all while keeping their scholastic activities upBand they all do. So, by the time November comes along it=s a long season, and when you come out best, there is really nothing that can be said, except that you made Mt. Olive really proud. With that, we do have certificatesBI=d like to ask our Superintendent, and Gloria KileyBbefore I bring them upBbecause of the success of the program, is related to the staff and the leadershipBwhich the Superintendent and the Chairman of the Fine Arts Department are definitely involved. But it=s also, I want to bring somebody up that can help me pronounce these names. Also, what should be recognized is the businesses in Town that support the Band, and the Band Parents who do the fund raising, who do all the support, drive the equipment buses, build the props. All right, I would like to present these certificates recognizing the students in the Mt. Olive High School Band: Meredith Ahlberg, Ray Atienza, Meghan Berkery, Bill Brownlee, Adam Burke, Cassie Burke, Mark Cavanaugh, James Campbel, Marc Cavanaugh, Steven Cavanaugh, Amy Denholtz, Joe Duggan, Mary Duggan, Sarah Duggan, Keith Eilersten, Kevin Bott, Brian Fleming, Kim Fleming, Kyle Fletcher, Nitish Gangoli, Mark Grassi, Adam Grzeskowiak, Ed Herbst, Chealsey Holland, Meghan Hynson, Deana Iacovone, Tara Johannesses, Kaitlin Kyle, Kristin Kyle, Kate LeBlanc, John Licciardi, Rachel Lichter, Tim Madsen, Catie McNulty, Phil Meltzer, Chrissy Mihalik, Lucas Moeller, Carolyn Monette, Michelle Morgan, Shannon Morris, Melissa Moyer, Andrew Mulcahy, Frank Nitti, Craig Pellet, Marisa Peterson, Steven Peterson, Wesley Petonak, Matt Pomel, Dave Porter, Christine Sala, Vincent Sala, Mark Schneck, Pam Schneck, Emily Schweighardt, Jeanine Sheppard, Justin Silva, Lindsey Skouras, Sean Sullivan, Laura Sutton, Dana Vachon, Melissa Welmon.

President Sohl: I would just like to say thank you to all of the Band Members, on behalf of the Council. You have really represented the best of Mt. Olive. And that=s what we are, the best. I look forward to seeing you at the Memorial Day Parade this year. We=ll take a five minute Recess. All right, I now reconvene the meeting. I will ask our Auditor Gary Higgins to give a brief explanation as to what we=re doing here this evening with regard to the Budget.

Mr. Higgins: Just the Current Fund Budget, and the Utility Fund Budget. What has to happen this evening, you have to pass a Resolution waiving the reading of the full BudgetBwhich I don=t think anybody really wants to do. It=s been advertised and made available to the Public. That=s basically what the Resolution states. Second, we=re going to have a Public Hearing on the Budget as Introduced. After that Hearing has been closed, there=s been an amendment proposed based upon input from Administration that has to be acted upon. At that time, the Budget will remain open and on the 23rd, there will be a Hearing on the Budget only, and then the Amendment only. And then assuming there=s no other situations that have to be addressed, we could hopefully adopt on the 23rdBsince we are getting close to the time that we have to strike the tax levy. The second issue is the Solid Waste Collection District Budget. What=s happened hereBon April 12, the Local Finance Board did give consent to adopt the Ordinance and the Budget. However, the Budget has a revision now downwards of $70,000 bringing the increase of the Tax Rate for the Solid Waste Collection down from an original increase of 9/10 of one cent to 2/10 of one cent. So, what has to happen, we have to pass an Amendment to the Solid Waste District Budget, and also, basically, reintroduce the Ordinance that sets forth the District Tax Levy. So, those two items have to proceed too, then. But as we go along, if there are any questions, I=ll help you out.

1. Resolution RE: Waiver of Reading in Full of the 2000 Budget.

Mr. Heymann moved for approval of the Resolution and Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously


President Sohl: I now open the Meeting to the Public. Is there anyone who would like to address the Council on the Year 2000 Budget?

Mr. Stan Roedel: My question is regarding the amount of the Municipal Open Space. In >98, you had a Referendum which approved for a Three-cent Open Space Tax Levy. As a result of that, the Ordinance, was introduced which contains a two-cent, but the actual tax levy is only 1.6 cents. I would like that to be explained to me.

President Sohl: Mr. Higgins can address thatBit has to do with revaluation.

Mr. Roedel: I understand thatBbut, the Public approved an amount per hundred. If you approve a dollar amount which resulted, collectedB

Mr. Higgins: We totally agree with you. This situation came about last year when the Revaluation took effect. It never really had been a situation before in a lot of communities, and we sought an opinion from the Attorney General=s Office, and the Deputy Attorney General for the Local Finance Board, Dan Reynolds ruled that you have to basically go with the total dollars that convert on the three cents prior to the reval and then levy on that basis in the future. I=d be more than happy to give you a copy of the letterBand that=s why it converts down to 1.6 cents even though the Referendum said three cents.

President Sohl: And it will be 1.6 moving forward unless we go to the Public again.

Mr. Higgins: But that was a ruling from the State Attorney General because we needed guidance on that because we did not know how to handle it, and we though the question would come up by someone. But that Record is a Public Document, and we can get you a copy.

Mr. Roedel: My concern is, does that reduction in the Referendum amount effect the State=s classification of Mt. Olive TownshipBthere=s a Referendum Classification, Class One ReferendumB

Mr. Higgins: It=s got nothing to do with thatB

Mr. Roedel: I believe they haveBminimal amount, you have two-cents per hundred, you=re a Class One Referendum Municipality, and under that you=re another Class and that has certain advantages in subsequent ReferendumsB

Mr. Higgins: We didn=t get hurt with our recent submissions in any way, I don=t believe. Right?

President Sohl: I=m unaware of what Aclass@ means in the context you=re trying to apply it.

Mr. Roedel: Maybe our AttorneyB

Mr. Dorsey: No. I don=t understand the injection of classifications. We have done marvelously well obtaining Green Acres Funds. We=ve always been classed A+, I guess. In the last major proposal we collected far more than anybody would have assumed. I don=t understand the assumptions that lie behind your statement.

Mr. Roedel: The other concern I haveBI=m wondering if the motivation wasB

Mr. Higgins: There was no motivation. This was a ruling by the Attorney General Office that we sought only because we didn=t know whether we should proceed at three cents because it practically doubled the amount from the Referendum as approved.

Mr. Roedel: But, the doubling might sound catastrophic but, in effect, it really resulted in only $25 per average household, which is a pittance, but, with respect to the Open Space, it equated to like $250,000 additional Revenue. That=s my concern, was it doneBwas it optionalB

Mr. Higgins: No, it=s not optional.

Mr. Dorsey: No, the Township is forced to comply with whatever rules and regulations that are promulgated by the Attorney General=s Office in order to have its Budget approved. And it can=t operate unless it has a Budget approved. So, the Council essentially voted for the three cents, put it on the Ballot, would have gone with the three cents except, you=re then told essentially, your Budget will not be approved unless you adjust. And that=s how it happened.

Mr. Roedel: Okay. That=s fine. Thank you very much.

President Sohl: Any one else on the Budget? If not, I close the meeting to the Public on the Budget.

2. Resolution to Amend Budget. (Public hearing 5/23)

Mr. Rattner moved to approve the Resolution and Mr. Heymann seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously


Ord. #9-2000 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive, County of Morris, State of New Jersey, Certifying the Budget of the Solid Waste District of the Township of Mount Olive and Authorizing the Collection of Cost by Taxation.

President Sohl: This will beBbased on the recommendationBor situation, as was laid out by our Auditor, we will defeat this because we have another one we will introduce.

President Sohl opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #9-2000

President Sohl closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #9-2000

Mr. Scapicchio moved for Adoption and Final Passage on Ord. #9-2000 and Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.


President Sohl declared Ord. #9-2000 as DEFEATED.


Ord. #19-2000 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive, County of Morris, State of New Jersey, Certifying the Budget of the Solid Waste District of the Township of Mount Olive and Authorizing the Collection of Cost by Taxation.

Mr. Rattner moved that Ord. #19-2000 be introduced by title and passed on First Reading and that it be scheduled for Adoption after a Public Hearing on May 23, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. Mrs. Kelly seconded the Motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

3. Resolution to Amend 2000 Solid Waste Collection District Budget. (Public Hearing on amendment 5/23/00)

Mr. Heymann moved for approval of the Resolution and Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously

President Sohl: That completes everything relative to the Budget. Thank you, Gary.

Mr. Higgins: Yes, and I will be here on the 23rd.

Mayor Licitra: I had the misfortune of being involved in the last eight Budgets. I would like to compliment Bob (Casey) and Sherry (Jenkins). Sherry hasn=t been on long. But, especially Bob and Sherry for making this much easier, much more user friendly, and putting it together in adverse conditions.

President Sohl: I will simply echo completely your comments, and add that it=s never a pleasant process in the sense of when dealing with increased costs and things like that. But the understandability of the whole process, the Budgets, the Reports and additional reports coming out of the Treasurers Office that Council has requested that are complete, comprehensive, understandable. It is just night and day. I commend both Mr. Casey and Ms. Jenkins.


Mayor Licitra: As you know, I was gone last week and I left each one of you in charge one day, and you were in charge for two days, Bill. It was uneventful except for one day, on Tuesday, my fellow colleague decided to make a Proclamation as a Mayor. So, I would just like to show the Public how I=m willing to take this very seriously, but this is the Office of the Mayor, and it=s a Proclamation ordering the grass to grow.

Proclamation Ordering the Grass to Grow

WHEREAS, The Township of Mt. Olive moved into its new Municipal Building in February, 1998, and

WHEREAS, one of the uncompleted and unsatisfactorily completed items remaining with the Municipal Building Project has been the failure of the grass to grow in and around the building and on site detention basin, and

WHEREAS, as a representative of the Environmental Commission, it is incumbent upon me to take the necessary action to overcome this environmental deficiency.

NOW, I, THEREFORE, Charlene Kelly, Acting Mayor for the Township Mayor for the Township of Mt. Olive for May 2, 2000, and serving as the Environmental Conscience for Mayor Paul Licitra, do hereby proclaim and declare that the existing lack of naturally grown cover commonly called grass is totally unacceptable to the residents and tax payers of the Township.

FURTHERMORE, as Mayor of the Day, and Mayor Licitra=s Environmental Conscience, I do hereby order the grass seed planted in the Fall of 1999 to germinate and grow to create the proper green carpet for the Mayor=s golfing pleasure. Signed, Charlene Kelly, Acting Mayor, May 2, 2000.

Mayor Licitra: And you don=t know how many times I walk into this Municipal Building and I look at that grass, and it just agitates me, awful. There are so many things that I have to do, but I do promise that it will be green by September. And, I=m going to paint it. As you all knowBand this is no excuse, the topsoil was taken some place. It=s probably in South Carolina someplace and we have to do the whole thing all over again. But, we will have a green sod over there, and it=s something we can all be proud of. Thank you, Charlene, for being my environmental conscience again. I do have another serious proclamation.


WHEREAS, the physical, mental and emotional health and well-being of our children is our responsibility; and

WHEREAS, the safety of our children is a significant concern for parents, community leaders and health care givers; and

WHEREAS, environmental welfare is of universal concern and deserves the utmost attention; and

WHEREAS, if begun in childhood, promoting proper mental, emotional and physical health, while encouraging good safety and environmental practices, these habits can be maintained for a lifetime, enhancing the lives of our young people and producing valued members of our neighborhoods, communities, and society

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Paul R. Licitra, Mayor of Mount Olive Township, do hereby proclaim May 20, 2000, as AKIDS DAY AMERICA/INTERNATIONAL@ in the Township of Mount Olive and encourage parents, extended families, teachers, neighborhoods and community leaders to promote good mental, emotional and physical health and well being for our children.

Mayor Licitra: I also have two other things. I was appointed to the Conference of Mayors in Atlantic City when I went to the Conference of Mayors, as one of their Board of Directors. I don=t know when I=m going to find time to serve, but it sounds good for Mt. Olive, and I did want to get involved because we=ve had such lack of involvement in the State level over these years. The last thing I want to do is, I did get a resignation from the Mayor Licitra (cont=d): Recreation Committee from Rich Gioconia, who coached with meBhe coached my children, in fact, and alongside me and with me. He has taken himself off the Recreation Committee, and I would like to make the Appointment of Buddy Shakespeare, who is presently the President of Mt. Olive Junior Baseball and Softball Association, to the Recreation Committee. And, that=s it.

President Sohl: Thank you very much. And I enjoyed being Mayor two days. I think that was a commendable idea.


Mr. Dorsey: No reports this evening.


$January 4, 2000 CS (Present: Mr. Spino, Mr. Heymann Mr. Sohl, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mrs. Kelly; Absent: None)

$January 18, 2000 CS ( Present:Mr. Sohl, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mrs. Kelly; Absent: Mr. Spino, Mr. Heymann)

$February 1, 2000 CS (Present: Mr. Heymann, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Sohl; Absent: Mrs. Kelly)

$April 25, 2000 CS (Present: Mrs. Kelly, Mr. Spino, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Guenther (6:35 pm), Mr. Scapicchio; Absent: Mr. Heymann, Mr. Sohl)

$April 25, 2000 (Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mrs. Kelly, Mr. Spino, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Sohl; Absent: Mr. Heymann)

Mr. Rattner moved for approval of the Minutes and Mr. Heymann seconded the Motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority

Exceptions: Mr. Heymann ABSTAINED on January 18, 2000 and April 25, 2000

Mrs. Kelly ABSTAINED on February 1, 2000

Mr. Spino ABSTAINED on January 18, 2000

Mr. Sohl ABSTAINED on April 25, 2000


Letters From Residents

1. Email received April 22, 2000, from Peter Coulter regarding the lighting at Flanders Park.

2. Letter received May 5, 2000, from Joseph DeMaria regarding the lighting at Flanders Park.

School Correspondence

Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Towns

3. Resolution of the Township of Parsippany received April 28, 2000, opposing proposed HCFA (Health Care Financing Administration) changes.

4. Ordinance of the Township of Allamuchy received May 1, 2000, Amending their Land Use Ordinance

5. Ordinance of the Township of Roxbury received May 2, 2000, Amending their Land Use Ordinance.

6. Resolution of the Borough of Netcong received May 3, 2000, supporting ACS 1848 regarding trash collection for garden apartments and condos.

7. Resolution of the Borough of Butler received May 3, 2000, opposing R2000-48 regarding reimbursement by Medicare for non-transport ALS (Advanced Life Support) units.

League of Municipalities

8. Legislative Bulletin received April 24, 2000, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities.

9. Seminar Announcement received April 27, 2000, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding League/Ratepayer Advocate Summit on Energy and Telecommunications Opportunities for Local Government.


10. Letter received April 24, 2000, from NJDEP regarding a Letter of Interpretation for Block 8200 Lot 1 (West King Estates).

11. Letter received April 24, 2000, from NJDOT regarding a Discretionary Grant for International Drive South - extension of time to award project..

12. Letter received April 24, 2000, from NJDEP regarding a Permit Application for the DPC Cirrus, Inc. (Flanders-Bartley Road).

13. Letter received April 26, 2000, from Chester, Ploussas, Lisowsky Partnership regarding a Treatment Works Application for Oak Hill I, Section II (formerly Newfane).

14. Letter received May 1, 2000, from Associated Consultants for a Transition Area Averaging Plan for Block 6600 Lot 8 (Schotland property - Bartley Road Chester border).

15. Letter received May 2, 2000, from NJDEP regarding a Treatment Works Permit for Mt. Olive Industrial Realty - 330 Waterloo Valley Road).

16. Letter received May 4, 2000, from NJDEP regarding a Letter of Interpretation for Block 400, Lots 86 - 108/Toll Brothers/Tozzi Property).

17. Letter received May 4, 2000, from NJDOT regarding an additional allotment from the Transportation Trust Fund Discretionary Aid Program for International Drive South.

Correspondence from Organizations/Committees/Boards

Correspondence Regarding Tort Claims/Verified Notice of Lien Claim/Petitions

Land Use/Development Matters


18. COAH (Council on Affordable Housing) Newsletter received April 24, 2000.

NJ Alcoholic Beverage Control

19. Letter received April 24, 2000, from NJ Division of ABC regarding charges against PAG, Inc. (Buy Rite Liquors in Flanders).

Correspondence from Cable Networks/Utilities

Correspondence from Legislative Representatives


President Sohl stated that we had received 19 items of correspondence and asked Council if there were any comments on same.

Ord. #15-2000 An Ordinance to Amend and Supplement Section 400-61 Entitled AQuarrying@ of the Code of the Township of Mount Olive.

President Sohl opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #15-2000

Mr. Bonte: Considering that this Ordinance has finally reached this point due to actions of one of the quarrying operations about two to three years ago, and the major impact that that quarry had on individuals private well supply, I find the Ordinance extremely weak in the areas that really caused this to come to this point. For example, in the third column, Aparagraph (h)@ it says, AProvisions shall be made to limit adverse impact upon ground water resources, surface waters, including lakes and rivers.@ That=s an extremely weak statement, and really doesn=t specify whatever can be done, and what the impact is. I would propose language something to the effect of, AThere shall be no impact upon ground water resources, surface waters, including ponds, lakes and rivers.@ On the back page, second column (5), there=s a statement that says, AThe extraction operation shall be conducted in such a manner as to protect the ground water resources. For example potable supply, wells of surrounding properties. Each quarry shall install monitoring wells, etc., etc.@ There is no definition here as to what limits would be acceptable or unacceptable regarding the impact that this operation would have on these potable wells in surrounding properties. And I think that should be further defined. And in the third column on Mr. Bonte (cont=d): that page, under AP - Penalties - Each violation of this Section shall be subject to a fine of not more that $1,000 and/or jail time of 30 days.@ Is that violation on a daily basis?

Mr. Dorsey: It is if a summons is issued on a daily basis.

Mr. Bonte: Or can this be modified to state that once the violation is issued, the fine shall incur at a rate of so much per day until the violation is corrected?

Mr. Dorsey: Well, under State Statute, the penalty can never be greater than $1,000 for each violation. But, each day could constitute a separate violation and a summons could be issued for each day.

Mr. Bonte: Assuming that a summons is issued each day, right?

Mr. Dorsey: Right.

Mr. Bonte: And it can=t exceed $1,000, Mr. Dorsey?

Mr. Dorsey: Under the State Statute, for Municipal Ordinance.

Mr. Bonte: Now what happens if those violations have to do with impact on ground water? Are there additional penalties from the DEP?

Mr. Dorsey: You have to recognize, the Municipal Judge would have the right of sending somebody to jail. So I think it would depend upon, there is that other part of this equation and I understand the statements that you have made, and as usual, they are very incisive, but you have to keep in mind that those standards that you are reading from are to be applied when they essentially make their application for their license. And, presumably, those issues will have to be raised and studied. It=s a little difficult in some of those areas to make very specific, objective standards to be complied with.

Mr. Bonte: Would you be favorable to consider the first change where I had requested that it say, AThere shall be no impact...@ As opposed to Alimited.@ I think we need to go into these negotiations as strong as possible.

Mr. Dorsey: I am very favorably moved towards that, but I thinkBfrankly, I think the inclination on the Council is that it=s waited two years to put something in place, and it=s going to put something in place tonight. And remember, there are people that don=t like this Ordinance at all.

Mr. Bonte: Right, especially the operators. But my feeling is, since it has been two years, and the people that live on that back road went through a horrendous time a couple of years ago and that is what has really caused these revisions. To beef this up a little bit in the area that caused the greatest concern, and make that take two more weeks, I don=t think any of them would be adverse to.

Mr. Dorsey: I understand.

President Sohl: Anyone else from the Public?

Mr. Jim Smith, Waterloo Valley Road: I agree with Rich (Bonte) 100% that Ordinance is weak for protection for any of the ground water. And several other parts of the OrdinanceBunless there is somebody that=s going to really enforce it, you=d have to say it=s partly like a joke. If you=re going to ask him to water the quarrying area, and then leave that road the way it isBI don=t know if you=ve ever saw the ATravel Channel@ when they=re going through Australia, and a truck is going down that dirt lane with a plume of dust in back of himBthat=s the public road now when any truck goes east of the sandpit. That road is a dusty road. So, if you=re going to make him water down his area, and then leave the road dusty, it=s not fit to travel.

Mr. Dorsey: I understand your point, but there are other Ordinances dealing with that type of situation on Public roads that would have to be enforced in conjunction. There=s a sense of Council, I think, wanting to get it on the books so we can move off the dime that we=ve been on for a long time.

President Sohl: And we=re trying to get to a point where we can begin to make it happen. Until we do thisBhopefully tonightBam I opposed to fine tuning as we go along? Not at all. And I think we can do that. But I think in deference to the grief that you personally went through, and the others up there, we=ve got to get something on the books. Is there anyone else on this Ordinance?

President Sohl closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #15-2000

Mr. Guenther moved for Adoption and Final Passage on Ord. #15-2000 and Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

Mr. Rattner: I understand what Mr. Bonte and Mr. Smith have said, and, in fact, we were going to have this Ordinance introduced a month ago, but then there were some new Amendments proposed. It seems that every week or every month there=s going to be a couple more changes and then we=re not going to get enough votes. I=m not sure if we=re going to get enough votes tonight, based on some of our previous discussions. But I think this hits most of the areas, and at least starts us down the road where we can do some enforcement. Right now, we have absolutely nothing, and I know there are a couple of issues the Planning Board is looking into and we=re going to be continually looking at it because we=re going to look at what works and where we have trouble enforcing. But we have to get something down. But we have nothing now, and obviously anybody can debate any specific point. But I think that everybody has to agree that this is a big step from what we have right now, so I=m going to support this right now.

Mr. Spino: I agree with what Steve said. Having been involved in this process from the very beginning with this Quarry Ordinance, I think it=s important that we get it on, and if there are things that we can do to make it betterBand that means tougher, then we should do that. But I think this is a starting point because these people have been operating without any type of Ordinance controlling them. This puts a great deal of control in the Township over them, and it=s a starting point.

President Sohl: I agree also. Roll Call.

ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority, Exception: Mr. Heymann voted NO

President Sohl declared Ord. #15-2000 as Passed on Second Reading.

Ord. #16-2000 Bond Ordinance Providing for Improvements to Flanders Park for Open Space Purposes in and by the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey, Appropriating $600,000 Therefore and Authorizing the Issuance of $570,000 Bonds or Notes of the Township to Finance Part of the Cost Thereof. (Flanders Park - with Lights)

President Sohl opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #16-2000

Mr. Stan Roedel, Budd Lake: My comments, for the Record, they can be directed to Ordinance #18-2000Bit=s nearly identical except with or without the lights. My comments aren=t with respect to the lights. And I don=t want my comments to be construed as me being against improving Flanders Park. But, my point is, I=m questioning the use of Open Space Dedicated Trust Fund monies for use as down payment of a Bond Ordinance for improvements. If I could read a brief sentence from a Town Ordinance, Article 12-842.. AFundsBA These are from the Open Space Dedicated Trust FundsBAbe utilized to acquire vacant land as well as land which has improvements upon it at the time of acquisition for the principal purpose of the acquisition is to preserve open space for active or passive recreation and for conservation purposes. In the event that the Township shall find it appropriate to apportion the cost of acquisition between open space and improvements, it may do so, then charge the Open Space Dedicated Trust Fund for the approximate value that it deems appropriate relative to Open Space to the Township=s Capital Account for the value that it determines shall be attributed to improvements.@ It seems clear to me, by virtue of this Ordinance that Open Space Dedicated Trust Fund Money should not go towardsB

President Sohl: It talked about Aimprovements@ right in what you read.

Mr. Roedel: If you listened to what I read, it said it should go to Aacquire vacant land as well as land which has improvements upon it at the time of acquisition.@

Mr. Rattner: The next paragraph talked about improvements later on from the Capital Ordinance.

Mr. Roedel: It=s discussingBAIn the event the Township should find it appropriate to apportion the cost of acquisition of land that already has improvements....@ It=s to take and divvy it upBsome from the Open Space of that lump sum purchase of land that already has improvements, some of the money from the Open Space Dedicated Trust Fund can go to the Open Space, some from the CapitalB

Mr. Dorsey: There is no question you have read that correctly. But, in drawing the original Ordinance to establish an Open Space Trust Fund, the money could not only be utilized for purchasing Open Space. In the Section that you read from, dealt where, indeed, the Municipality might, in order to acquire Open Space, also purchased improved property. But there is a portionBI=m absolutely sure from recollection that provides that the monies may, indeed, be utilized for the development of recreational facilities. But I don=t have it in front of me.

Mr. Roedel: The only place I can find that reference you=re mentioning is on the Resolution of the Town Council which generated the Ordinance. But, correct me if I=m wrong, the Ordinance is the legally binding document, and supercedes the Resolution.

President Sohl: While John is looking that up, is there anyone else who would like to address this Ordinance?

Mr. Steve Masotti: Thank you for this opportunity to speak. I=m concerned about the decision you=re about to make as concerns to the Council representing the citizens of Mt. Olive. I=ve been a resident of Mt. Olive for over 30 years. All of my children grew up, went to school in this Township, and enjoyed the Open Space that was here during that time. They went off to college, and have become very successful due to what I believe to be the involvement of the Township Rec Programs, and the other programs in both school and civil that have been here. The promise of constant growth and improvement in our Town has brought them back to start their own families. I hope they are not disappointed. The Pride of Mt. Olive is important to us, to the next level of Community, and we must include our kids in this endeavor. The direction that the politics in this Town is going will surely tier down the basic foundation that the Mayor in his statement of two weeks ago indicated that we need to go. I understand our society has become shallow in many admirable virtues of the past, such as commitment, loyalty, honesty and integrity, feeling of community, all of which our Mayor wants in his Administration. But the direction that this Council is proceeding is contradictive and confirms the most important this is votes. Those who are the loudest, and the minority, not the average resident who depends on his representatives on the Town Council to do the right thing. I wonder if you would deny this improvement to Flanders Park if our youth were able to vote you out of Office. This is for them. Flanders Park is the first project that is a positive step in the right direction towards bringing back Mt. Olive Pride. Being a coach in various groups in Mt. Olive over the past 25 years, I have seen the decline in enthusiasm and pride of our ball players because they are embarrassed by the ability of this Town to support the teams and the facilities we need and deserve. Ask yourself why we seem to have much trouble competing. As many coaches have attested, it takes more than the ability to compete. Our athletes are as good as any other in the area. The difference is APride.@ We, as adults have to show the way, and instill in the players that seed that will grow to be Mt. Olive. To take money away from Flanders Park after promising its completion in totalBincluding the lights, would affirm what has been said about the Administration, and the one before. That they give Agood lip service.@ Or tell everyone what needs to be said through negative Press, or point the fingers somewhere else. If votes is what it=s about, let me assure you, I will do everything in my power to get the people voted in what the majority of the people in Town want. Not the minority. This project needs to be completed as proposed, and the lights are an important step in bringing back a positive image to this Administration. Don=t alienate the Youth of this Town like we have small businesses. Make a difference. Let=s remember this Council and Administration as being sincere, honest to commitment, and maintain the highest level of integrity possible for any person or group. Let Flanders Park be an example. The Youth, Citizens, past, present and future can look at an example of what Mt. Olive can do, and what to expect for Turkeybrook when its time comes. Thank you.

Mr. Chris Killian, Recreation Advisory Committee: Basically, I=m here to support the improvements to Flanders Park with the lights. The Recreation Advisory Committee approved this when we were asked for input on the situation. Speaking as a member, as a taxpayer, as a voting resident of Mt. Olive, and I can speak for the majority of the other members of the Committee, we felt that it was something that needed to be done in order to complete a project in this Town, finally. After all the talk and waiting around for years for something to finally be developed in full, we were promised these lights from the get-go. The taxpayers who are involved in the recreation organizations, a majority of those people have looked toward this as a stepping stone for Mt. Olive, would like to see those lights developed in order for us to open up the scheduling conflicts that we currently have to allow us the field usage that is necessary for right now, and everyone is talking about ATurkeybrook.@ That=s wonderful, and I=m all for it, but is that going to happen tomorrow? No. This can happen tomorrow. You have a minority of residents who live in Flanders Crossing who are against it, and I can understand their concern and I take no offense the residents that are concerned because they live right on the road. But it=s a minority of the voting Public. If you go out on the street and ask all the people whose children are involved in Recreation and have been told that this is going to happen, whose kids are looking forward to playing on a field with lights, like other Towns offer, you=ll get a different story. Unfortunately, those people aren=t here because most of them aren=t told about what=s going on here. Secondly, I think safety is a major issueBspeaking on behalf of the Babe Ruth/Jack Kroft League. Aside from them currently using Board of Education property and having to go on what the Board of Education scheduledBwhich takes priority, of course, this would give them a field in which they can Mr. Killian (cont=d): play after dusk, and not have their games called due to darknessBwhich is a safety issue. I just want to implore you to complete a project that you=ve undertaken for a change. I was at the Planning Board Meeting where they approved it with the exception of an Ordinance, which at the time appeased most of the people that were in the audience, with a 10:00pm Ordinance. The Planning Board approved to go forward with the lights. Now, we=re back to Step 1 again. Basically, that=s just it, and I would hope you would take into consideration the majority of the voting Public and their opinions on this matter. Thank you.

Mr. Dorsey: I just want to say thank you to the Clerk for her speedy research. It is clear that when the Township placed this matter before the voters as it was required to do in order to essentially effectuate a Dedicated Tax, The question itself made it clear that monies would be utilized for both Open Space and for the development of active recreation facilities. As a matter of fact, the Resolution was changed at the time of the adoption to emphasize that the monies would be used for the development of active recreation facilities, according to the Minutes, and the Resolution itself said, AFor purposes of pursuing Open Space, and/or developing recreational facilities.@ And the question that appeared on the Ballot on which people voted AYeah@ or ANay@ said very specifically, ASaid Fund shall be designated for the purpose of property within the Township of Mt. Olive for Open Space and for the development of active recreation facilities.@ Now, that is the wording that was contained in the Ballot question, and therefore, I think that is the most binding document of all and makes this money available for the development of recreation facilities, as well as the acquisition of Open Space solely for passive purposes.

Mr. Robert Greenbaum, 104 Crenshaw Drive: I stand before you wearing many hats. I=m a citizen of the Township of Mt. Olive, I=m President of Flanders Crossing Homeowners Association, I participate in recreation in the Township, I=m father of two small children who are coming up and who will be using the recreational facilities in the Township in the future. Having said that, I think that everyone knows that I=m opposed to the lighting. My opposition is on several fronts. I think that we need to distinguish opposition to the lighting from opposition to the development and completion of the Park. Not too long ago, in the Star Ledger there was an article with regard to opposition to parks in neighborhoods by groups that were opposed to having parks because of the problems of noise, lighting, traffic. That=s not the case here. I have not heard one person in Flanders Crossing who has been opposed to the Park. In fact, Flanders Crossing is in favor of the park to the extent that there have been numerous individuals who have come to me who have said, AWe want to go out and find volunteer funding for the tot-lot. And we=re committed to that. As soon as we know the land is available, we=ll go out, we=ll get the funding, similar to that which was done in Randolph, and in other parks.@ Which would save the Township considerable money. So let=s focus on the issue at hand, which is the lighting. Now, this is probably the tenth meetingBgoing back to the Planning Board, through Council Meetings, Committee Meetings that we=ve discussed this issue. I guess we heard all the arguments before. I want to talk about the word Acompletion.@ It=s a word that keeps coming up in all of the arguments we=ve heard in favor of having the lighting. The park can be complete without lighting. I think that=s a very unfair argument. It=s almost as unfair as the argument that was made tonight to say, AIf you don=t vote the way the majority of the voters want you to vote, we=re going to get you out of Office.@ That=s very unfair, because I don=t think that we=ve heard from the majority of the residents of Mt. Olive Township. We=ve heard from basically two different sects. The sects that are going to be directly effected by the lightingBone are the baseball people, and one are the homeowners. But the vast majority of Township Residents are concerned about their taxes. Now, Mr. Heymann spoke up at an earlier meeting and said that this was not going to effect anyone=s tax consequences. But I believe that=s untrue because we have to look at each dollar that the Township spends very carefully. A dollar here, a dollar there, it all adds up. Last week, at the meeting the Budd Lake Fire Department came and told us that they need to retro a new truckB$375,000. We=re talking about developing B&H, we=re talking about developing Turkeybrook. These are all costs that are going to be passed along to the taxpayers of the Township. There are other things that come upBsuch as the health issue which raised its ugly head last year. The sewer project, Town Hall. There are a multitude of pans on the fire for the Township not even considering the debt load the Town is already facing. And I believe that the meeting of April 18BMr. Rattner=s comments with regard to the fiscal nature of lighting are completely appropriate here and of the utmost importance in terms of deciding this issue. Now, I don=t fault Mr. Heymann, and I don=t fault any of the people who are in favor of the lights. Their enthusiasm is encouraging. Although, I obviously come down on the other side of the fence. And, I don=t think there is a person here who is going to speak against the lights who is not in favor of moving the recreational facilities in this Town forward. But, to use the word Acompletion@ is wrong. Now, with regard to the effect that the lighting is going to have on the individual homeowners in Flanders Crossing, I=m going to leave that to the individual homeowners who are going to be directly effected, and I think that not one of us sitting here or over here in the crowd really knows what effect the lighting is actually going to have. I appreciate the fact that the Town has done everything that they can do to minimize the effect of the lighting, but the fact remains that there is going to be an effect, and we won=t know what that truly is until the lighting is in place. I can tell you that to a person out of the 30 or 40 houses in the development which are going to be directly effected by the lights, all but one Mr. Greenbaum (cont=d): have signed a Petition opposed to the lighting. The quality of life of certain residents of the Township are going to be effected, and I think that has to be considered in the balancing of the need for lights. Thank you.

Mr. John Grecco, Flanders Crossing: I just want to say for the Record that I=m in favor of the plan, and I think it should proceed as planned. There is no voting block in Flanders Crossing, there is no outrage in that neighborhood, and I=m not here to represent the neighborhood. I can tell you=re all intelligent people and you know if there was outrage from Flanders Crossing, believe me, this room would be packed. And there would be speaker after speaker, homeowner from Flanders opposing it. I think we do need to move forward and we need to have a nice facility, a lighted facility so we can have tournaments, so we can have evening games. This is going to be the only full sized ballfield that we have in the Township that will hopefully have the lights so that we=ll have this infrastructure forever and ever down the road. You look at neighboring Towns, RoxburyBthey=ve got great facilities, they have lighted facilities. There are neighborhoods nearbyBand who=s to say that once we get up to Turkeybrook the people up there aren=t going to be opposed to lights, to this, to that. I think it=s important that we think clearly about this. Proceed the way it was planned. When I purchased my home in Flanders Crossing, I knew what the plan was. I knew they were going to build a ballfield across the lot. I investigated it. I found out there was going to be lights, I had no problem with that. I knew the adjoining property was zoned for Light Industrial, so the lot that I picked was not in that area because I knew at some point it would be developed. So I think what you=ll find tonight is maybe a handful of people from my development are opposed to it, and that=s fine. That=s their right, and they have a right to an opinion. But so do I. So I just wanted to state that for the Record. There is no voting block and there is no outrage that I can see, and you could see from the number of people that are here from my development. Remember, we have 225 homes. If half of the people were opposed, you=d have 100 people sitting here just from Flanders Crossing. I just don=t see that here tonight. Thank you very much.

Mrs. Lois Rezak: I just would like to say, as far as this park, it=s a great thing and I think it should be completed with lights. He said ask residents how they feel about lightsBthe people in the Village Green have the lights right across the street, and that field is lighted. The Mayor spoke about helping our children, declaring May 20, as AChildren=s Day.@ We have other children other than tots in this Town. We have kids that are middle schoolers, teenagers, and they play their games later than the younger children. Our teenagers need something to do. There is no recreational facility for our teenagers. I have been a summer resident and a resident of Budd Lake forBgoing back to when I was born. There is nothing for kids to do. A park is a step in the right direction, and yes, we need lights. We need lights because older kids play games at night. We need as a community to have something decent to show other Towns. This Town is beautiful. You know what=s happening? We=re building development on top of development with children, but there=s nothing for them to do. So, you=re just going to say, ANo lights.@ Or, AIt can be complete without lights.@ Why not with lights? Why not have Turkeybrook and that park developed? We need soccer fields. Yes, the Foreign Trade Zone donated soccer fields, but you know what, I think it=s disgusting. All of this land is going to developments. We have plenty of open land to develop a recreational facility for our children. I am a taxpayer. I=ve been a taxpayer in this Town going back as a summer resident in this Town. And, yes, it should be developed. And we also, recently, had sewers put in in Budd Lake. Talk about taxes? Yes. We had taxes. Did Flanders contribute to those sewers? No. So, don=t talk about taxes. Me, of all people should say, AI don=t want the lights.@ Because, we have a new Middle School going up too. Taxes, taxes, taxes, taxes. The taxes are going up, but you moved to a community that is putting development on top of development. You don=t expect taxes to go up? How do you support everything? How do you support all the children and the recreation that goes along with children? Declare a day for Children? Yes. Promise them that they=ll have a place to do things. Have a Rec facility for teenagers. Let them help in painting it and building it, and maybe some of the Youth in this Town wouldn=t be crime ridden. Maybe they would develop into something and be proud of something they=ve accomplished in this Town. So, that=s what I have to say. I=m sorry, everybody is entitled to their opinion, but this Town needs to do something for our children. And, a park with lights is something for the childrenBand so is TurkeybrookBwith lights, with soccer fields, with a whole sports complex. And that=s what I have to say.

Mr. Frank Forohar, Flanders Crossing: I live across the street from the park, and I have a Petition signed by all the homeownersBexcept oneBwho have signed this Petition that are against the lights. Not the Park, but the installation of the lights in Flanders Park. So, I would just like to hand in this Petition for Public Record.

Mrs. Kathy Puder: I=m a 16-year resident of Flanders. I=m proud to be from Mt. Olive, I=ve been here for 16 years. Not as long as some of you, maybe longer than others. And how proud we were of our band, and validly so. I=m going to call the area of the park that pertains to the lighting what it is. That=s ARuss Nagle Field.@ It=s important that we don=t forget that. It=s a baseball field named after Russ Nagle. And while I=m doing this brief talk, I would just like you to remember one thing. Do not take one step forward and ten steps back. That has been our habit. For the 16 years that we=ve been here, that=s what we=ve done. One step forward, and not Aone@

Mrs. Puder (cont=d): back, ten back. Before I go on, I would just like to say AThank you@ to those of you that I know a little more personally than the others. Mr. Licitra, Mrs. Kelly, and Mr. Heymann. Those three on a personal level I know have supported both passive and recreation for all of our Youth for very many years. But on a happy note, what are we proud of? I=m going to pass around a picture of Mt. Olive=s 1999 Babe Ruth Championship Baseball Team. They won their Districts. These boys are 14. They won their Districts at A10" they won the Districts at A12" and they won the Districts at A14.@ What does that mean? Well, we should give them a hand, we never have, and maybe they=ll come later. But, it=s important to know that with this group of boys, we=ve had the pleasure of traveling all over New Jersey. We=ve gone to Flemington, we=ve gone to High Point, we=ve gone everywhere in between. What do you think I=m going to say next? Can we have a tournament here? Do we have lights? Do we have fields? Answer: No, we don=t. Ten years in the planning this park has been going on. And I differ with the gentleman in the front, because you know what? Lights are completion. Our games stop at 7:00pm. We can=t bring anybody in, and we can=t host tournaments. We want to do that? We have to go someplace else. We live here. We should be able to play here. And the time isn=t when Turkeybrook is ready, the time is now. You have a chance to do it. These boys that won as 14-year olds are Freshman at the High School. Their Freshman Record is 10-0. They want to play home. If anyone has any more questions about lights, please, come with us. Every weekend we=re out on the road, and you can see the lighting out in places. It=s important that you don=t forget what you started. This was a ballfield named after Russ Nagle. And guess what, you need to have it available at night. You said you were going to do it. You must finish what you said you were going to do. Let them come home and play. Two other thingsBnow that you built the park, someone has to monitor it. The dirt has to be suitable for playing ball. I=m a mom, it looks like a sandbox, they sink. Who=s monitoring what you=ve already done. And, is it done correctly. That has to follow. And the last thing is just a quote. And it=s a quote from our Mayor. AI look back in frustration recognizing that there is so much that needs to be done, and so little time and resources to accomplish these goals.@ Now is your chance. Finish what you started. Don=t take from one to pay for another. Do a good job, do a complete job, and do it now.

Mr. Dino Polozois, 11 Tulano Road: I=ve been a resident for about 16 years. I have two young boys. I really didn=t realize what a recreation program was until about seven years ago when my oldest child started a program. I thought I knew the residents of Mt. Olive, being originally from Bergen County, but, sitting there at some of these games next to the parents for a couple of hours, you get to know them and really that=s where it began. You get to know them, and that=s how you build pride. Mt. Olive, I believe has about 22,000 residentsBmaybe more. Very diverse in income and size, but when you get there, and get to know them, it really has to do with my boys and a sense in the program. The next part of this, the Football program, the recreation, there=s nothing there. Right now in the baseball, currently, the Dan Jordan Field, we=re using a school bus to provide insale services on Saturday morning. School bus, right there, short term. There are really no bathroom facilities. I reside about a block or two away. I allow the parents who work there to use my home bathroom facilities. This is disappointing. This is awful. We have to move on. We are a very large community. I have a 12-year old. Next year he=s going to be playing baseball. Where is he going to be playing in the evening? We have to go permanent. I realize the whole process is the process with the fields. But we need the lights as well. We need the lights so we can be flexible. The season starts in April. Daylight is very short. We=re not talking about July or August. We need the flexibility. Fall season is anotherBand we=re talking about 13-year-olds and 14-year-olds in one field. Turkeybrook is something different. Ladies and gentlemen, this is just for the kids. And that=s why I=m here tonight. I=m here for my kids.

Ms. Ann Waznuski: Just a couple of things I want to talk aboutBand I=m one of the directly effected neighbors. I have a beautiful home that I love. I love the development, I love living there. Unfortunately, my deck and all the windows in the back of my house overlook the outfield of this baseball field. I usually think of myself as a pretty Abig picture@ person, ALet=s do what=s right for the community.@ But I haven=t heard the need for these lights. I=ve heard the Awant@ and I understand the want, everybody wants things. I haven=t heard the need. We have a field there that=s going to be dedicated to these guys, let=s get that field going. I echo what Rob said, we=re Apro@ park. We want to see the park done, we just don=t want to see it done with the lights. I attended the lighting of the field for Roxbury when it was done, so we could all get a feel for what lighting looked like, and I was horrified to think that my house might look like that at night. I drove there with my whole family, we went back a few blocks, and you could still see the illumination on the houses. I understand they=re different lights, they=re facing different, they=re not shielded, they=re still very big, bright lights. They have some trees over there. We have no trees, we were a farm field. We planted trees, we=re praying that they grow, but it=s not going to be for quite some time until we have any kind of shielding for there. And, I beg to differ with someone who spoke about everyone has known about these lights forever. We went to Town Hall to check everything out before we purchased here. We knew about the park, we were excited about the park. I asked specifically if there were going to be lights, and we were told, ANo.@ Now, I don=t know what else I could have done to research that, butB

President Sohl: Who told you that?

Mrs. Waznuski (cont=d) : Whoever worked in the Zoning Office at the timeBin 1994BI didn=t think I would need a name back then. Although you may have been talking about it Council Chambers and Council meetings, I didn=t live here then, and I did what I thought I needed to do to find out, and I was told Aabsolutely no.@ But, water under the bridge. That=s where I=m coming from. So, my expectation was, this is what it would look like to me for the foreseeable future. I have three small children all under five, and I=m concerned about their ability to be comfortable and to sleep at night. I=m worried about the noise and the traffic and the lights. It=s difficult enough to get these guys to sleep. It=s my personal concern, and it=s shared by a lot of folks that live down there. There are a lot of small children in the development who will be using these facilities and it is a reason why we need to develop more and more of this type of facility. And I=m concerned with the tax implications, I hear about all these scheduled projects coming up. Our taxes went up significantly with the last revaluation and I=m nervous about how much they could possibly be, and if we could still afford to live here because of the taxes. So, I=m all for things that we need, I=m concerned with throwing in things that are nice to have, and not needs, and then, all of sudden, we don=t have money for the things we need. And one more thought. I was driving up Route 206 the other day past our billboard that says, AWherever you=re from, Welcome Home.@ And a very sad thought came across my mind. I keep hearing over and over again, we=ve been talking about the lights before those people in Flanders Crossing where there, before those Seniors where there, and when I hear that, it makes me feel anything but welcome. It makes me feel like an outsider, it makes me feel like, ACome here and pay your taxes, but be quiet and let us do whatever we want around you.@And it=s upsetting to me because I do like the Township and I did feel like it was my home, but some of this has changed my feeling. We deserve to be considered. We do count, we pay taxes, we add to the cost of the Township, but we also pay our fair share of the taxes. Just try to think, if you were living there, how would you feel if we were talking about shining these lights in your house. That=s basically what we=re talking about here. There is no shielding, there are no trees, no buildings. It=s flat. It will change the whole look of the valley, the whole look of the area. I=m all for the kids. If you install the lights in Flanders Park, you=re going to resolve some short term wants. But you=re going to create a long term burden for those of us who live there. They=re going to be there. Once they=re up, they=re there. They=re there forever. We=re there. We=re going to be living with them. TurkeybrookBI don=t know. I don=t know how far off it is, but if we were standing there today with both Turkeybrook and Flanders Park available to us and we were deciding where to put lights, I doubt we=d be talking about putting them in Flanders Park. It=s 18 acres. I think we=d be talking about the 268 acre parkBif we=d be talking about lights at allBmaybe we=d have enough fields for day time play and we could do this without lights. Thank you.

Mr. Mike Barracado: I was one of the residents that received a Certified Letter telling me about the project. I would just like to voice my opposition to the lights, but I=m all for the park. I probably expect to be playing there, my kids will be playing there as well, but I wanted to voice my opposition to the lights. Thank you.

Mr. Buddy Shakespeare, President, MOJBSA, and Rec Committee: So, I think of not only baseball, but all recreation. Here are two petitions that we have within a five-day period, which is not a significant amount of time to do something like this. We have 135 people that signed it. Due to the Township, it=s difficult to get that petition out there on such a short notice. In this short, five-day notice, we have 135 people all in support of completing Flanders, and also utilizing the lights situation. When you talk about needs. Our Organization grew by 80 bodies this year, so we have 800 kids in our program, of which about 555 are the boys. When you take 555 boys and you bring them up through the process, you=re going to exceed what we have out there for sports facilities. Turkeybrook is a great thing. I=m proud of what you=ve done so far. It=s a step in the right direction, but we also need other fields. We have a football program, we have a basketball program. We have baseball. What other sports programs that can utilize that park is great. But, when you have 1,000 homes planned for the future with 1.8 kids per house, what=s that going to do for the usage of fields? You=re not going to get that one-game a night, you need the two games. You=re going to need that two games to complete a program. Presently, I believe the Babe Ruth does about 77 games a year. That=s going to double. Now, where are they going to play? The High School? Tinc Road? Flanders Park? Turkeybrook is down the road for the older group of kids. The Football Program grewBI think 60+ kids last year. Where are they going to play? When are they going to play? Are they going to finish all their games in the day time? Are they going to play Sundays? Are they going to play all day Sunday? Things that we have to consider for our kids. Everybody that has a kid know that when your children need something, regardless of the cost, the parents find a way to pay for what they need. If it=s a $10 bike, if it=s $100 bike. People are out there to support their kids. The majority of people have kids. The majority of the people want to see this project go forward. They have a petition of 30 or 40 residents out of 225. That is a minority. This evening, you started this meeting off supporting the Band. The Band is #1 in the State, Group 2. I think that=s outstanding. But, what about the other programs? We=ve never had a baseball team, except for two years that did something good in Mt. Olive, High School level. FootballBI=m a West Morris graduate. For 26 years, West Morris kicked Mt. Olive=s butt. For 26 years because Mt. Olive didn=t do things properly. Well, now I=m a resident of Mt. Olive. I have three kids. My wife=s been a resident of Mt. Olive her whole life. I can kid her about what happened 27 years ago. I want that to change. I don=t want my kids to be the laughing stock of Morris County. This year, our Football Program finally got on the right feet. We had an exciting program. Mr. Shakespear (cont=d): But, the farm system has to come up to support that program or we=re going to keep spinning our wheels. The baseball program has a new coach. We=re still spinning our wheels because kids are leaving our Town to go to other schools because they don=t feel they can get what they need out of Mt. Olive Township. We have to move forward. We have to look at our kids. Our kids are the issue here. Finish something for the kids, get the lights in Mt. Olive. Let the farm systemsBif you call them thatBgrow so the Township, the High School kids can come in here at night, during the Fall for Football, during the Spring for Baseball, Track, whatever it might beBBasketball, and accept awards from you because they did a great thing. They were a good team that was recognized in our Town, in the County, and in the State. I just ask that you move forward with what=s going on. Thank you.

Mrs. Marie Brown, Flanders Crossing: I=ve been a resident of Mt. Olive Township for just one year. I am affected by the lights and all I=ve heard tonight mostly is Aboys, boys, boys.@ I=ve got three girls and I was disappointed from where I came from for what=s available for them. But, that=s not the point. Flanders Crossing Park, if it=s supposed to built the way it=s supposed to--does have the football, the soccer, the basketball, the volleyball, and this baseball field that they=re all so concerned about. You say, A10:00pm time frame.@ Guess what? Who=s going to be there to monitor that they go off at 10:00pm, or if somebody is supposed to have a key? Because if they don=t go off at 10:00pm, I=m going to be calling someone at 10:05pm. I know in the summer time, 9:00pm, it gets dark, so they=ll only be on for an hour. Maybe I could deal with it. I wouldn=t like it. I don=t like it at all. My property faces it. I=ve got a brand new deck I spent lots of money on putting up. I wanted to enjoy sitting out there. I didn=t want it to be daylight all summer long. But, if it goes. Those lights for basketballBI=ve seen them 10:00pm,. 10:30pm, playing basketball. I don=t want that. I don=t want kids from other neighborhoods coming in and playing basketball disrupting things. If we=re just talking about a baseball field, maybe that would be nice, but who=s going to guarantee that those lights go off if they go in? I=m not for them. I don=t want them. I=m called the minority here because we=re only 30 homes that are affected here. But there has to be a lot more taken into consideration. One, I feel, is my safety. If we=re going to bringing in other people because those lights are going to be and there=s not going to be somebody thereBif they have their baseball games, and if they have their tournamentsBsometimes they don=t end at 10:00pm. I=ve been involved where they=ve gone on until midnight, but they were in areas where there weren=t any homes around. There were specific fields and it didn=t bother anybody. So, at 10:00pm and they=re in a tournament, are they going to stop? There=s no guarantee to that. Yes, we need fields, having more recreational fields would be great. But lighting themBshe passed around a picture of the Babe Ruth team that wonBthey won without lights. I don=t think that lighting these fields is going to help them win any more tournaments. So, I=m opposed to them. If you can guarantee me that you put them up and at 10:00pm they=re going off, then maybe that=s okay. Otherwise, I=m going to be calling everybody at 10:05pm to make sure they=re off. Because if that=s the guarantee, then I=m going to make sure they=re off.

Mr. Rick Ryder, Flanders Crossing: I=ve been a resident of Flanders for over 20 years. I=ve been involved in Rec programs coached boys baseball for over 12 years. I=m proud to say that I coached the team in the picture that Cathy passed around. The kids that I=ve been involved withBfor 12 years I=ve watched this one group of kids grow, I=ve seen a group behind us, I have an older daughter, I=ve seen the group ahead of us. There=s not a lot of recreation in Town to begin with. The fields that we do have are very limited. I was a member of the little league up to the time my son moved up to Babe Ruth, and I moved up with him three years ago. At that time, we had 605 kids in the program. Presently, I believe there are 805. So, it=s increased 200 children in three years. Babe Ruth, this is my third year, and we have two additional teams this year. To get playing timeBonce the season starts in baseball, there is no more time for practice. Playing together, All-Star Teams, Traveling Teams, getting involved in summer leagues, and Fall Ball, which we do, we end up coordinating with other Towns sometimesBjust to find a field to have practices and try-outs. The need is there. The numbers of the children that are presently here, since I=ve been in Town, has grown tremendously, and there=s still a lot of growth going on. I think without these lights, we=re going to have a harder and harder time putting kids into something that=s going to make them better as they grow. That=s about it. I=m from Flanders Crossing, and I=m for the fields, obviously. You started this project. It=s there. Finish it. Do this for the kids. Thank you.

Mr. Howie Weiss, Flanders Crossing: I wasn=t going to speak tonightBbut, Buddy, we should have won that game in >76, we got robbed. I don=t intend to make light of the situation, and I don=t know if the Clerk=s machine picks up sarcasm, but I think we have to keep things in perspective. I=ve been in front of you numerous times. I don=t think I need to explain my dedication to recreation. I=ve been here since I was seven years old, I moved back into Town. But, as I sit here and listen to what people want, what people needBthat=s been my rally cry, the want versus the need. I figure, while we=re at it, while we=re just putting up what people want to make this comparable to the Meadowlands as far as the sports facilityBI have kids that play sports that we=re not even talking about tonight. My son plays ice hockey. When are you going to put up an ice hockey arena in Town? I have a daughter that=s on the swim team. Where is the Town pool? When does it stop? When I was a kid and I grew up here, we had a patch of grass and a fence and you played ball. Well, we=re moving alongBand, I=m

Mr. Weiss (cont=d):very impressed with the passion that I see here tonight. I come as often as I can to your meetings, and usually it=s just Rich (Bonte) and me. It=s really good. It=s good to see there are people that feel so strongly about this issue that they=re going to come out. I=m really sitting on a fence on this issue. Lights are great, my kids will take full advantage of it. I=ve done a little homework. These are estimates. I put some numbers together. I was a Phys-Ed Major in college, so I could put a tournament together. Basically, you take 18 LeagueBwhich is about where Babe Ruth is at. Ask each if they want to play 18 games. What you=re going to need to field an 18-game schedule is a total of 72 games. I went ahead, and gave you some examples of how to do that. You can play four days a week, one game per day, and then put four games out on Saturday, you=ll have 80 games. You never once need lights. Again, there=s a lot of error in this, but I tried to error on the side of caution. I just think we need to keep in perspective, do we need it, or do we want it? If we want it, I=m going to come back and tell you some other things I want. That=s all. I=ve spoken long enough here. Just keep things in perspective.

Mr. Tony Marchiagno: I=ve been involved with the Baseball Program for the last seven or eight years. It=s my feeling that we do need this. We=re not looking for Meadowlands. I think Mt. Olive is due to have a field, a complete field. When I go out there with the boys now and we play, to me, it=s an incomplete field. It needs more fencing. It would be nice for us to be able to house a District Tournament. You go to other Townships, and they have, maybe a small concession stand, they have lights if the game has to go into extra innings. I believe at this point, we=re sharing the fields with the High School and the JV, and I don=t think Howie brought that into consideration. So, I think, if you sit there with numbers, it doesn=t always work out that way. And as the Town grows, we need it. One other thing that keeps on coming to my mind. I remember eight or ten years ago, when the first approval came on Flanders Crossing. I remember Charlie Johnson getting up there and saying, AGeez, guys, we should make this a two-acre zoning because it=s part of the golf course.@ I think what sold all of us in the Township was that we were going to have a recreational facility there, built for us, and for our needs. That was the only reason we wentBI think, the Township went back and rezoned this cluster zoning to a quarter acre. Because we said across the street was going to be something built for Mt. Olive. For our kids, and our recreational facilities. Now we=re asking for it to be completed. I don=t mean to say this, but I think this thing about the lights is a big nothing. I think, yes, some people might be slightly effected, but I don=t think it=s going to wear on the quality of life for the people in Flanders Crossing. I think it=s going to be a temporary thing that=s going to come on and off, and I don=t think it=s going to be something that=s going to be glaring into someone=s backyard or on their deck. I think at some point down the road that that facility should be a completed facility for the use of our recreation people, and our kids.

Mr. Bernie Decristafaro, Budd Lake: I=ve lived in Budd Lake for the last 15 years, I=ve been playing baseball for 37 years of my life. Little League, Babe Ruth, Leagues in college, high school, semi-pro league, and I still run a semi-pro league in Mendham. I grew up in Rockaway Township. I look back at Rockaway Township, which I moved away from to come to Mt. Olive, and I look back at Rockaway Township at the facilities that they=ve given their childrenBwhich includes the Peterson Field, which is where we end up going for tournaments and those lights are directly across from the neighborhood. Maybe they had problems when they put those lights up then, I don=t know, but, it=s a great facility for the kids in Rockaway Township. I really am passionate about this field being completed the way you actually planned itBwith the lightsBI have a hard time sitting here listening to the people who are opposed to it based on the fact that those lights can=t be on that often. How many times a week will those lights be on? Weekends? Do people go to bed at 9:00pm on the weekends? To keep kids interested in this Town, in the recreation programs and not have them leave to go to other schoolsBI left out that I coach Pope John right now. I receive quite a few children from other Towns that go to Pope John. I don=t know why that is, but I assume that a lot of the recreation programs in the Towns they come from aren=t that good. I would like to see less kids leaving Mt. Olive and staying here to play, and, in turn, having the high school reach some point of respectability. That=s all I have to say. Thank you for your time.

Mr. Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I=m a 30-year resident of Mt. OliveBmost of my adult life. In 1994, I got involved with a number of people that lived primarily in the Cloverhill areaByou all know why. But, basically, what happened was, we secured this property to be used asBwhat I was led to believe at that time a ACommunity Park@which would be primarily to serve the residents of Cloverhill and Flanders CrossingBwhich I don=t have any problem with. I think Community Parks are probably the best type of parks because when the Community feels involved in the Park and lives close, they tend to treat it like their own and keep it clean and help with the maintenance of it. I guess part of my concern is, when we first started talking about thisBthe development of this park, it was in 1994. We were talking of numbers in the neighborhood of about $100,000 for the complete development of this facility. I think we=ve spent more than that already to be where we=re at now. I guess I have some concern as to how this thing has mushroomed into something that=s probably going to ultimately end up costing close to $1 million, and does the community need this? I don=t really have an opinion on the lights one way or the other. I=m talking to you primarily over what has started out as a very modest community park and Mr. Bonte (cont=d): turned into a rather large scale expensive effort. How much are the lights proposed to cost for this facility? Does anybody know?

Mayor Licitra: $230,000.

Mr. Casey: NoBunfortunately the estimate you have includes the lights for baseball field, basketball court and security lighting. Normally, you look at a tournament level of this, is about $150,000 is what it would cost for a tournament level lighting. It=s a good ball park.

Mr. Bonte: And is that the only difference between Ordinance #16-2000 and #18-2000?

President Sohl: Yes.

Mr. Bonte: How come the numbers in the Ordinance don=t reflect that?

Mr. Heymann: I think there=s a $200,000 difference.

Mr. Bonte: It leads me to believe the lights are free here.

Mr. Heymann: That would be nice.

Mr. Dorsey: Part of the answer to that was, the original Ordinance I guess specifically included lights, and then there was the thought that maybe that Ordinance would not pass and people wanted another Ordinance ready to be introduced without any further delay. So the dollar amounts never changed. Because of certain issues involving the preform and debt statement, etc., etc. So, you=re right. The two ordinances do not reflect a difference in cost, they do, however reflect what is authorized, i.e., with lights or without lights.

Mr. Bonte: So what would happen to that authorized money if the lights weren=t provided for?

Mr. Dorsey: It would ultimately be transferred or canceled.

President Sohl: And, Rich, you know it couldn=t be spent without our approval.

Mr. Bonte: Oh, I know that, but I know what happens once there=s money in hand when we=ve gotten a Bond Ordinance passed. I guess my concern here is, what this has grown into, and, is this something that the Town needs for all the Town residents. And that leads to my next question. We=ve had this debate before. I hear about Babe Ruth, and I hear about other organized sports where the primary proponents of building this Afirst class facility@ with the lights. I=ll ask you again, when these fields are not scheduled for use by these organized sports, will they be available to any and all Township residents without restriction?

President Sohl: As far as I know, they are. There=s not going to be a lock on the gate.

Mayor Licitra: They could probably work it through the Recreation Committee.

President Sohl: The lights won=t be on, necessarily.

Mr. Bonte: A group of people are down there on Saturday afternoon and there=s no ball game going on, and a bunch of kids decide to have a ball game on this field?

Mayor Licitra: Dan Jordan, they do it right now.

Mr. Bonte: But what=s going to happen when we have a Afirst class facility.@ And the field will be truly available for anybody who wants to use it?

President Sohl: I=m not aware of any limitation.

Mr. Bonte: Once it has to be coordinated with Recreation peopleBI mean, people don=t know on Monday what they want to be doing on Saturday afternoon. The whole idea of a park is, it=s a nice day, you head out to the park, the field=s not in use, a bunch of people decide to get together and have a game.

Mr. Heymann: Rich, there will have to be some restrictions. We certainly don=t want to have a bunch of adult softball players going out and playing on the boys baseball field. But, I think if a group of kids go outBI=ll tell you an interesting story Mr. Marchiagno just reminded me of. That field was vacant for so long and one day he went there to practice and he found a women=s team out of Hopatcong playing on our field down there. Probably because some guy drove by Town so many times and saw the field sitting vacant and didn=t have a field in Hopatcong so he brought his girls team down there. We threw them off, called the police to have them removed. But if a bunch of kids go down thereByou find that interesting, Rich?

Mr. Bonte: I find it pretty interesting that the Police could throw them off of a Public field.

Mr. Heymann: It=s not their Public field. It=s not bought with Green Acre Funds. Rich, if it=s not Green Acre Funding we don=t have to open it up to people from other Towns.

Mr. Bonte: This mentality is really sad. When Communities start thinking this way. If I know that my Public Tax dollars are going to ultimately go to spend $600,000 there for a necessary facility, I want to know that if a group of men are down there, or a group of kids are down there, and they want to use that field because there=s nobody on it that they can use it. I want to hear those words tonight. Because if I don=t hear those wordsB

Mr. Guenther: But, Rich, not from other TownsB

Mr. Bonte: Well, I don=t know that you can even restrict it to other Towns. Because if every Town adopts this mentality, then the shore towns will adopt this mentality, every Town that has a facilityBand then it will come down to streets and everything else, Bernie. This is the US.

Mr. Heymann: I=ll hold my comments to the end.

Mr. Bonte: But, my concern is, my concernBwe=re getting a little bit off here, but, my concern is that certainly, for the residents of this Town, if our tax dollars are going to support this facility. That when this facility is not being used for scheduled events, it would be available for everybody, and they don=t have to go through some intricate process of scheduling six days in advance to have a ball game. Otherwise it shouldn=t be built with Public dollars.

Mr. Spino: I=ll say a couple of quick thingsBI know it=s already 9:45pm and we haven=t moved yet. 1) can you go on the school football field and play? No.

Mr. Bonte: And that=s sad because it=s my dollars.

Mr. Spino: I=m not saying whether it=s sad or not. I=m saying that=s a fact. You cannot do it. That=s the first thing. Secondly. In my opinionBand only my opinion, I would think that if a group of kids wanted to go and play baseball and the field was not being used, that they would be able to use it as long as they didn=t do damage or destroy it, or vandalism. That=s my opinion. I=m not sure that=s the opinion of the majority of the people that are interested in this field. Secondly, if, while those kids were playing, an organized team came that had the field booked for that period of time, they would have to vacate the field and the team would have the right to play there. As long as that=s being done, I don=t have a problem with it. I would think that=s the way it should work, but that=s only my opinion.

Mr. Bonte: I agree with you, Earl. I think we have to all keep this in mind. We=re not building a Asemi-private facility@ here. This is for the people of this TownBand primarily for the two communities that live adjacent to this parkBand I don=t live in that section of Town. Their needs should be met before anybody. Thank you.

Mrs. Ann Orsi, 96 Crenshaw Drive: A gentleman handed a Petition to you people before which was from only the certified home owners from Flanders Crossing that had gotten the letters. I have personally gone to 89 homes in Flanders Crossing with a PetitionBI=ve just started. I=ve gotten 13 ANo=s@ and the rest are only against the lights. All of them are against the lights. I still have 132 more to go, and I=ll have it done before May 23, 2000. And I have some signatures from others in different areas. I listened to this since it started with the Planning Board and the lights. The lights have gone anywhere for $300,000 to $400,000 to $250,000. Every thing keeps getting changed. Every time we come, it=s a different phase of that park. Finish the park, let the children go play. Finish your baseball fields and get on with it. But, I don=t really believeBI have four children, I came from Texas where sports rule. They did without a lot of lights there until the leagues could raise their money. If you came from a wealthy town where they had plenty of money, then the Town would provide some of it. They got sponsors to help pay for the lights. This nonsense between Flanders CrossingBI went to Mt. Olive Manor, and Mrs. Orsi (cont=d): was going back to talk to a number of residentsBthe elderly people there who are against it lighting up the whole side of their building. I went back on MondayBthey were going to bring people up here to have their say, for or against, and was told by JohnBthe manager, that the Board of Directors of Mt. Olive Manor will not allow them to have anything to do with signing a Petition, or any say, technically, the Manor itself.

Mr. Spino: Well, what about the residents.

Mrs. Orsi: Well, when I spoke to the residents later, I had people that told me they were afraid. But, Mt. Olive Manor said they will not take a stand because they want to put another apartment complex up there. And if they argued with you people, they won=t get their other building when it comes. I=ve only lived here for four years, and I just started to get involved in the politics.

President Sohl: I=m rather sad to hear that. Because this governing Body has been open, and I don=t think anybody sitting here has even the inkling of that kind of mentality. I know where it comes from, you know, all politicians are crooked. I get tired of hearing that and so does my wife.

Mrs, Orsi: No, I came from Texas, remember.

Mr. Spino: They carry guns in Texas

Mrs. Orsi: It=s legal, too. Anyway, my children are grown. I had four children, they played ball from the time they were five years old, clear on through. League ball, high school, college. Okay. We all love sports, but you have to put a price on the tax payer. You have to say, when are we going to stop? Turkeybrook, over $10 million by the time it=s completed? Flanders Park? Get the bathrooms in there, I=m tired of seeing the port-a-potty. And that looks terrible. There=s a Councilman hereBtwo and a half years ago I said, AWho put a back stop there?@ He said, ANo back stop there.@ I said, AGo look.@ He came back and said, AOh, yeah.@ Figured it would get moved. Never got moved. That was two and a half years ago. Plenty of time for whoever handled all that to move it. And, by the way, I hope you=re not getting the same people who set up this wonderful park to do Turkeybrook.

Mr. Heymann: We=re not.

Mrs. Orsi; Any way, I just wanted to say, listening to, AWe=re for.@ and AWe=re against.@ Flanders Crossing, Flanders Crossing. The residents of Flanders Crossing pay quite a bit of taxes. I had an argument at the garage sale the other day with some lady that lives in Budd Lake. AWhy are you so involved in this?@ I said, AWell, the school Bond is going to bring my taxes up, this is going to bring my taxes up. How much taxes do you pay?@ She said, AI pay $2500.@ I said, AWell, I pay three times as much as you pay.@ She said, AOh, if you buy my house, I=ll give it to you.@ It=s petty. We=re not against the kids playing. We are for the kids having a park. But at what cost? They=ve been playing all along. I understand the Babe Ruth league. I understand the male mentality of the coaches. The men want to win. It doesn=t matter what it costs. Win, win, win. Even though the coach will tell you, ANow come on boys, go out there and have fun.@ If you=re a dedicated coach, you want to win, or else Mt. Olive Babe Ruth League wouldn=t have won all these championshipsBwhich they should be proud of. But, these peopleBby May 23, are opposed. I have 13 ANo=s@ so far. And the direct residents with the Certified letters are opposed. And, as a taxpayer, I=m opposed to the lights. Thank you.

Mr. Chris Killian: I=ve been taking notes so they=re really misconstrued here. But, just a couple of thingsBwith the Petitions that are floating around tonight. I spoke with two residents of Flanders Crossing just tonight, down at the park at the Babe Ruth game, and they said that they had signed petitions for the lights. You=ve heard some members of Flanders Crossing come up tonight and speak for the lights. It tends to comeBthe majority in this room are against it because they=re the minority in the complex that is immediately effected by it. I=ve heard people comparing Horseshoe Lake to this facility. There is no comparison in Roxbury. It=s a larger facility. The illumination is greater. This is not anything close to what Horseshoe Lake isBfor those of you who have seen it. I=m not privy to the information that Howie gave to the Council tonight, but I will say in terms of need, I think we=ve addressed several needs from several organizations. I again can go through for Football. I know I did several weeks back and during the April 25 meeting, I know Steve has addressed it for Babe Ruth. Lights are a necessity, especially at this point in time when there aren=t enough fields to utilize in this Town. For Football, I know that we would be using Friday nights, Saturday nights under the lights in order to play our games. On those nights, it would free up our schedule, and it would also offer soccer some extra field space because right now we=re playing our games on Saturdays and Sundays which eliminates them using fields during those days. This would give them all of Sunday to utilize the field space. I just spoke to Pete Juran in regard to that tonight. Wednesday nights is also a possibility because we have flag team and trying to get them to playBmost of the Mr. Killian (cont=d): time they have to play a lot their games away because they=re effected by our weekend schedule. We=d be able to offer them a Wednesday night game. Basically, there is a need. Babe Ruth has mentioned it before with the safety factor and the practice times and so forth and so on. I noticed that nobody has taken into consideration the use for the basketball courts. I also notice that the lighting could effect the residents of CloverhillBthe illuminationBand there aren=t any here tonight from Cloverhill that are against it. I think this is becoming sort of like ANot In My Backyard@ syndrom and everybody is going to wind up suffering, the entire Town because of a minority of residentsBand rightfully soBare upset about it. I just don=t see that punishing the rest of the Town and all the kids and all the other organizations that are in need of this is going to help the cause. Like I said, I didn=t come up here too prepared. I=ve just been jotting down notes. I just think it=s hurting the situation here. We need to get something done for the Town, for the Recreation.

Mr. Steve Masotti: It looks like some of you guys are getting a little tired, so I=ll be real brief hereBI guess you still have a long night ahead of youBI=m leaving after we=re done with this.

Mr. Spino: Thanks.

Mr. Masotti: I heard several discussions on cost. If I=m not mistaking, it=s a $600,000 Bond you=re looking at. Has anybody sat down and figured out what that=s going to cost us over ten years. I would approximate if you sat down with your tax advisorsBI=m not real good at this, but I=m going to guestimate that it=s less than $4 per year per resident for a ten-year period. Or something like that. Well, I=m sure that cost is not quite as extensive as everybody would like to believe. As far as the tournaments are concerned, yes, this does give us a lot of leeway with tournaments to have the lights there. It also adds to the income that comes in to the Town which directly affects the businesses down in that areaBthe small businesses as well as the Hyatt HotelBand I guess some of the soccer guys are still there, they can attest to the amount of money that is brought into there. It actually turns out to be jobs for our youth, as well as our residents. Tournaments do bring in a lot of money, a lot of income to the community. Usage of the field. Somebody gave you a schedule on the use of the field. We can use the field four days a week, and they don=t have a problem with conflicts. Use any field four days a week and you=re going to have a problem, because after two weeks, the field is useless. So, whatever that is worth, it=s what it=s worth. As far as taxes. If we=re going to determine the amount of tax that we pay to the importance of what we=re saying, then, I guess I=m pretty high on the roll call here because I do own two buildings in Town and I pay taxes on both of those buildings which approximate to well over $8,000 a year in taxes. With that, thank you.

Mr. Borowski, Budd Lake: I=m sort ofBI don=t know which way to go, because I=m the one that has to run down to Eyland Avenue to play under the lights. But, what could $250,000 buy us? The way I look at it, with our lack of facilities, that=s five soccer fieldsBI think baseball fields are running $100,000, that=s two and a half baseball fields. I sit here and think, that $250,000 would be so much better used getting us the facilities then getting such a limited use facility for such a limited time. Also, my concerns that $250,000 is a race against the developers to buy up more open space. To get more land, to give us more facilities. Also, with the lights down in Flanders CrossingBwhen Turkeybrook comes on line you=re going to see that facility down in Flanders used so much less. When people are going to go play tennis or basketball, they=re not going to go down to Flanders Crossing, they=re going to go to Turkeybrook because you=re going to have the kiddie lot, you=re going to have the track and the tennis courts and the basketball courts. It=s such a short term return, the long run won=t give us a return. Thank you.

Mr. Greenbaum: Very brief. Two points. Number One, I=m a little troubled by Council=s approach to move forward with the down payment as discussed previously in oppositionBactually, the Ordinance is fairly clear on it=s base. I=m not troubled about using the money, I=m troubled by the Council going forward without amending that Ordinance. Which I believe is what all the Council members would want to doBto have appropriate Ordinance in place, and then to fund it pursuant to the OrdinanceBand I=m not troubled by the funding aspect, I=m troubled by Council moving forward in the face of an Ordinance which is directly contrary to the action which is contemplated. And I think that you should give that more thought before you make the decision. Secondly, I=ve heard a lot of talk about tournaments. We have to remember that this is a very small field with no parking facilities. This is not the kind of field that lends well to tournaments. So I think that=s really a red herring.

Mr. Bonte: Being very familiar with Referendum law, Mr. Dorsey is correct. The wording of the question is what counts. If the subsequent enabling Legislation that came out as a result of the way the Referendum went is flawed, it does not change the fact that the wording of the question is what counts. If you read the Faulkner Act, it=s very definitive that the wording has to be exact, that=s what the Voters vote on, that=s the law. So you=re not doing anything against your conscience or anything else, or really in violation of the Law, the Ordinance may be flawed, the actual vote and the wording on that Ballot five or six years ago is what counts.

President Sohl: Thank you, Rich. Is there anyone else who would like to address this Ordinance?

President Sohl closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #16-2000.

Mr. Scapicchio moved for Adoption and Final Passage on Ord. #16-2000 and Mr. Heymann seconded the motion.

Mr. Heymann: I=ll try to be brief. As brief as I can be. Most of the people are coaching with me, or friends, or people who have come down from Flanders Crossing and know exactly how I stand. I=ve been on this Council for 10+ years, and it=s no secret that this is my last term. I think everybody knows that. I think that more than three terms and you=re uselesBit=s my own opinion.

Mr. Spino: Thanks.

Mr. Heymann: Earl, I don=t mean you personally, I mean me.

Mr. Rattner: Earl has past the third.

Mr. Heymann: He=s in his second two terms, so I guess it counts. And I ran, and no one knew me, and I knocked on 1100 doors, and my campaign committee is here, it was Dino Polazoi, and that was in 1989. And, at that time, I had a two-year old, and I didn=t know anything about what he was going to be as an athlete. And the reason I ran was because everyday I would go to Court, and, someoneBno kiddingBwould rank on about our Municipal Building, and how it was the biggest embarrassment, and how could we continue to have meetings there. And I agreed with him. My whole campaign was, ALet=s get a new Municipal Building.@ I=m proud to tell you, it took me about nine years, and a lot of help from the Council people who were here. We lost our one EDA loan that would have saved us $1.5 million, but that=s unfortunately, sometimesBMrs. Puder took my lineBI do agree we take one step and we go a couple backwards. I did say thatBI said that before you said it, Cathy, as Mr. Dorsey had reminded me. And, now, I have a 14-year old son who plays with all those All-Star guys because he=s a pretty good athlete. But, this isn=t going to benefit him. Because if it even gets done, he will have moved on. So, that=s not what I=m here for. I=ve been involved in athletics my whole life. I think that=s part of the reason why I=ve grown up with some discipline and I=m where I=m at. I think that we=re very very deficient in our facilities. John Grecco got up from Flanders Crossing and spoke, and he came to my house yesterday because his son plays for my baseball team and he didn=t have a uniform. He told me he coaches a nine-year-old team. They have 16 nine-year-old teams, 192 kids. If 50% of those kids go on and play 13-year old baseball in four years, that will be eight teams that you will need at that level alone. So when you talk about need, I am telling you that the program is busting. We go to the High School, where we have to play second-fiddleBwhich makes sense because there are Freshman and Varsity Games there. Tinc RoadBthe School Board was good enough to put in left-field a permanent soccer stanchion. So, not only is there a risk there as to who is going to run into it and get killed, but it absolutely sits in the field. It=s a Askin@ infield. For those of you who don=t know, that means it=s only dirt so when it gets hot, it=s absolutely treacherous because the ball comes so hard off the field, it=s just a matter of time before someone gets hurt.

Mayor Licitra: And the sun sets in your eyes.

Mr. Heymann: And the sun sets in your eyes. You=re absolutely right, Mayor. There will be a new Middle School field eventually. I gave them three months after it=s built until it=s ruined because they can=t maintain their own fields in the School Board, and that=s an issue we have no control over, but it=s a fact of life. If you=ve seen the Mt. View facility, if you=ve seen the Tinc Road facility, if you=ve seen the Sand Shore facility, I need say no more to verify that. And when Mr. Cerros was the Head Baseball Coach here, who=s a resident in this Municipality, they re-did the varsity field every day last year when Babe Ruth had a game, he came up there and made sure that that field was raked and it was covered so it would be good the next day. That doesn=t happen any more because Mr. Cerros isn=t a coach any longer. And I don=t have a position with that. All I=m saying to you is that that field is getting ruined. So, it=ll only be a matter of time before that field goes. I asked a friend of mine who is a CPA, to give me what it would cost to fund $200,000 at ten years, at 5.2% interest. That=s what he anticipated the Bond Note would cost. There=s a ten year pay out for that Note, and I=m going to anticipate it to cost the likes of about $200,000. The cost to the average home of $200,000 in the first year would be $3.53. At then end of ten years, you as a tax payer will have paid $29.87 for that $200,000. So, let=s dispel that there=s anything to do with increase in our taxes. For those lights, it will cost you somewhere between $30 and $40. Now, I=m just trying to talk facts. I=m not talking about whetherByou wanted to know some facts, that=s a fact. So, let=s go on. We always have this fear of what it=s costing. We=ve put utilities in this Municipality, so we eliminated the need to ever go to Local Board of Adjustment right now for approval of any Bonding. I spoke to Gary Higgins who was here the other day. He told me that personally. We funded a humongous project here Mr. Heymann (cont=d): known as the sewer project, we=ve all gotten grayer over it. But the fact of the matter is, it=s now in the process of paying itself down because we=re collecting the monies and it=s not increasing our debt, it=s decreasing in debt. So I want to make it clear to where I think this municipality is going. Before the School Budget, the Mayor and I had a little discussionBfriendly non-wager of what we thought was going to happen. And the School Budget passed. I think it passed because the people in this municipality want to see better. They=re willing to pay more money if they see improvements being made. So I think that=s a telling factor because I sat on this Council during my ten years, at least three or four times we had to redo school budgets because the community voted it down. Even in the face of $40,000,000 Referendum they=re still passing these Budgets because they want to see better school systems. Some of my friends up here on this Council think that we=re going to get this project done at Turkeybrook, and don=t want to light this. I=d love to see Turkeybrook done the right way. It=s not going to happen tomorrow. Let=s realize that. We don=t have the money to put in there what we need to put in there. We=re certainly not going to light anything down there right now because we have to be realistic. Secondly, there is nothing designed down there to go for this age level. So the fact of the matter is, when we=re busting at the seams, we=re not going to have a field at Turkeybrook for this age level. So, to say that $200,000 at $3.53 person in this community to think you=re going to put a light up down there for this, isn=t going to happen, people. We=ll be lucky enough if we build a soccer and baseball complex there within five or six years. Mr. Smith isn=t going to keep that land forever for that soccer group. I don=t know what=s going to happen down there. We need to move on thisBnot becuase the lights are the principal issue. It=s because we as a Council years ago made a commitment to complete this project and lights were part of that completion process. And I understand residentsBbelieve meBI sat here when Flanders Crossing came in and wanted to change the retail zoning down thereBfrom Light Industrial. And I sat here when Country Oaks came in and wanted us to change the Zoning. But, this serves everybody in this Community. We don=t pick three kids out of Flanders and they play baseball. You play baseball in Mt. Olive. That picture that went around didn=t say AFlanders.@ It said AMt. Olive@ and that=s what we are. And there=s no other place to play. And I=ll tell you, if it doesn=t pass and the fact of the matter is it=s a Bonding Ordinance, and we need five AYes@ votes, and we probably don=t have that here, unfortunately, it=s going to come back. You people will be back up here because you=re going to be complaining when we don=t have a place to put anybody. That=s going to happen sooner than later. It=s going to cost more money at that point in time to get that done. So, I=m more after the fact that commitment was made a very long time ago. When I came here in January when the presentation was madeBand there were some people that were hereBthey ran a video and they showed how those lights would impactBokay, you don=t have to believe that because that was Musko lighting doing it themselves. We went to Roxbury. They don=t even have the same kind of lights that we=re going to put up. There was hardly any glare at all. There wasn=t even any glare on the house that was next to it. I know there were several Council there, the Mayor was there. I can=t guarantee anythingBI=m an Attorney. It=s as simple as that. I don=t knowBI can=t say those people who have the porch facing the field whether there is going to be a glare. I don=t think there is from what I=ve seen with the lights at Roxbury, and I can=t tell you that if there is, I=m going to buy your home and let you move in with me. I can=t do that. I can only tell you what I saw, and my research when I came to the meeting here and I went there. Now, Howie is in a difficult situation. When he was the President, he came before us. We listened to him, he always made good points. I don=t remember hearing anything about anti-lights. I remember putting a island in for a crossing. We thought it was a good idea, and we agreed to do that. So, this light issue isn=t something that just came up, it=s been going on and on and on. I=m looking at what=s going to happen to Shakespear=s kids, and the kids behind that. Again, when I started looking for this, I thought my kid was going to be able to play under these lights, but he=s probably not. So, I just think it=s necessary and needed. I think I=ve proven a need because of the amount of kids that are in the program. For a lot of people, athletics isn=t that important. And I understand that. I have two children. A little girl who hates sports, but she loves to dance and do other things, and I have a boy who loves sports. So I know what it=s like to be on both sides of the coin. But I think it=s important, and I think there=s a correlation when you read in our newspaper that our Mt. Olive High School teams don=t win. I think they don=t win because we don=t give them the facilities below to get better. And, if you think that=s not true, go to other Towns. Why does Randolph have a good program? Because the facilities feed kids all the way through. Go to any Head coach of any program and he=ll say that to you and I think when you see kids go to other Towns, they see their facilities, they=re enticed to go thereBwhether they go to camp somewhere else or whatever. So we have a chance to make this a first class facility. I think that was the goal. I=m sorry to the people who moved in there. But, truthfully, that was there first. The plan was to put that facility and those lights up before Custom Living lost that property and sold it to Continental Properties. We didn=t do something that we haven=t discussed up here from the get-go. Mr. Spino made that known the night it went before the Planning Board. So, I think it=s important that we get it done, and understand that if we don=t get it done, you=re going to have to do it somewhere, someplace, sometime or your kids are not going to have a facility to play on. Because those numbers aren=t lying. If one half of the nine-year-old kids play baseball, you will have eight teams alone at the 13-year-old level. That doesn=t count the 14-15-year-old level and the other level. Where are they going to go? I don=t know where they=re going to go. I won=t be here by then. In four years I won=t be sitting hereBI won=t be leaving the Town, I=ll be watching my son play ball somewhere else. That=s the sad part for everybody, and partly why I=m not running anymore, because when he=s a sophomore, Tuesday Mr. Heymann (cont=d): meetings won=t fit into my basketball agenda. So there=s no reason to be here. I=ll be going to watch him play ball. I really believe t hat we need not toBI won=t say that. It was about politics, and I don=t want us to be swayed by that=s what=s going on. I want us to make the decision because we said we were going to make this decision a real long time ago. And, yes, you=re entitled to your opinion and when new people come up on this Board, let=s go through. The Mayor and the Administration supports this project. His Recreation Committee by a nine-one vote supports this project in its entirety. Why are we tinkering with this? Because we think we=re going to build a lid-field at Turkeybrook? We=re not. Mr. Casey gave us an estimate, $5 million to $8 million. We don=t even know where that money is. We procrastinate so much that our sewer project cost a lot more money than it should have. Not our fault. That was done a way long time ago. That could have been done in the 70's for $10 million. It wasn=t because we don=t pull the trigger. People, if you don=t pull the trigger here and put these lights up, you=re going to have to put them up. It=s going to cost you more money somewhere down the line. I know there are some residents in Flanders Crossing that aren=t going to be happy about this, but, people weren=t happy in Cloverhill when Toys R Us was going in. We heard some horrible things from those residents. At about 1100 homes, we had about 120 people down there. That was a tough vote. People stood up and said, AI=m not voting for you if you vote for it.@ And we voted that in by a four-to-three vote. We don=t hear any complaints any more from those people about the Toys R Us people down there. Unfortunately, we alienated them by what we went through, and they=re not exactly our best friends in Town, but the fact of the matter is, we went through that, we made the right decision, and I hope that we make the right decision here and the lights won=t have a negative impact on the people=s lifestyles down there. I really don=t believe that they will. There is a mechanism to control the lights by 10:00pm, Miss. I don=t know who the keymaster will be, but I do know that there is a means of doing that. There are timers and there are rules. When we go to Blairstown, they have lights, and they have a rule ANo Lights After 10:00pm@ You can=t start anything after 9:45pm. And that=s in the middle of a commercial zone. So, when we go there, the umpire tells you that. You know, I can=t believe we=re still talking about thisBwell, now I=m a filibuster, but, you know, it=s not going to cost a lot of money, people, so you lose that argument. And, we need it. So, I=d like to get five Ayes@ votes. And I=m done.

Mrs. Kelly: I still am very concerned about the Senior Citizens who are afraid to speak up. I=m concerned about The Manor who doesn=t want to get involved because they=re afraid that they won=t get approvals when they come back for that second building. And, my son was involved in Little League and Babe Ruth. He was actually in soccer before Mt. Olive ever had a soccer team. Mt. Olive didn=t even have a soccer team until he was in High School. And then he felt like a traitor because he was playing against Mt. Olive because we went to Stanhope and that=s where he played soccer because we didn=t have these leagues then. But, while I support the development of the park, I still have concerns about these lights. I believe that the cost is still a lot more than we had originally thought they would be and they=re going to be a lot taller than any of our Ordinances allow in our Town. I don=t think the Township has the right to break our own Ordinances even though the Planning Board unanimously approved the lighting, we don=t allow developers to put in lights that are going to be this tall. I just am not going to be able to vote AYes@ on this, I=m going to have to vote ANo.@

Mr. Rattner: To me, the issue isn=t necessarily the lights themselves. I think the effect on the area residents is probably over stated on both sides. It=s not going to be as bad for people who are against it, and it=s not going to be as non-intrusive as the people who want it say. And I don=t think that=s the real issue. The issue that I have is the fact that we=ve been running a race lately on anything anybody wants, we=re going to do. And we=ve been doing a lot of different projects. In the last month, our Business Administrator gave us an analysis of our debt and where it=s going. Basically, what he showed us is, in the next five years, if the economy stays going and we continue our growthBremember that=s one of the goals that this Administration said that they=re going to slow downBwe=re still going to see an increase in our debt load of 50% by the year 2004 for just the projects that we know are on there. So, that is a large increase. Yes, $200,000 here is not that big a deal. But we also have a couple of different groups in different parts of Town saying we have to buy this property right away, it=s going to effect the water supply, we have to stop this development because what it=s going to do to the Raritan, and cause flooding in other areas. We promised other projects to other people that we can=t do that effect their everyday life. Country Club Estates, we=ve had people coming down for two and a half years complaining about the drainage, and every time it rains, the run-off is coming down the road and coming on to their property and going into their houses and can something be done. We=ve told them we really can=t afford that kind of a fix. In fact, even just general drainageBNetcong Road, we started a project. The only way we can do anything is to get a Grant because we can=t afford it. We have a lot of different other issues. We look at this park. This land was given to us in exchange for some developmental rights in Flanders Crossing. The Developer also did the excavation and leveled the property. So, at that point, it didn=t cost us anything. We=ve already spent another $300,000 to where we are today. Now we=re asking for about $600,000 and it=s really still a loose number. We=ve been working on this for five years. A lot of false starts, some redoing. I want to see the field finished now. The lights, I think can be added later. And going back to the BudgetBI always go back to the Budget, I think our debt load is going up. Remember, it=s going up 50%, the economy doesn=t fail, interest rates don=t go up, and development continues. Some things we want, some things we don=t, and that=s still where it=s going. Mr. Rattner (cont=d): But, I think what we have to doBand I don=t see either one of these OrdinancesBI=d like to see $18-2000, because I can=t support #16-2000, saying exactly the same thing but saying $400,000 with a $380,000 issuance of Bonds. This way we could move on everything except for the lights at this point, and also look to see if the lights have to be that kind of expense, or are there other ones. These were not the price. Every time we discussed something, the price went up. The whole field. I never remember the whole field costing $100,000. But I do remember it being in the $300,000 to $500,000 range. And then just to keep goingBand if this doesn=t do everything we need a couple of other things, and then somebody else wants something else. Where do we stop and say ANo.@ I think this is one heck of an investment. I think it=s definitely needed. I don=t think that anybody could scoff on $700,000 that we=ve invested for the two fields, not when we=re trying to acquire property. So, #16-2000, I can=t support.

Mr. Scapicchio: There is no question that we are deficient of recreational facilities and fields within this Municipality. I am not in favor of putting lights at this field because I believeBmy position is simpleBI don=t think that we want to light lights throughout the whole community. Several months ago when we got the green light to move forward with Turkeybrook, I convinced my colleagues up here to move forward in a speedy fashion with that. I=m committed to the development of that park with lights, but I live in a community that I don=t believe should have lighted fields scattered throughout. I think Turkeybrook, always has been the jewel and the centerpiece of our recreational facility. I told Ron that I would vote in favor of this Bond Ordinance so that we could move forward. I=ve gotten a commitment from the Administration that we will Bid out these lights separately, so we will have an opportunity to again voice our opinion. So, I will vote for this Bond Ordinance so that we can move forward without delaying any further, but I am not in favor of lighting that field.

Mr. Spino: I=m going to take a short time. I=m going to do a couple of things tonight that I normally don=t do. One is, spend money. And the other is to really not agree 100% with some citizens that might be affected. I=ve been accused of doing that often. I=m agreeing with people when I should not. But, in this particular time, because my involvement goes way back to my first involvement on the Recreation Committee. When Mt. Olive had nothing. We have some today, but it=s not nearly enough, and it=s not all usable at this point. And Mr. Licitra can attest to the fact that the people on that Committee were amazed that we didn=t have anything and said that we probably never will because Mt. Olive doesn=t do things like that. We=re in the position today because we didn=t do things like that. We didn=t build a Municipal Building 25 years ago. We didn=t sewer Budd Lake 30 years ago. We didn=t buy property for Recreation as the Town has grown. we=re doing it all now. And I think to stop at this point with this particular field, when all along in my opinionBand it=s only my opinion, we were talking about the possibility of lighting this field all along. It might not be on Record, but certainly did talk about it. I think it would be foolish to stop now. The facilities are needed. They are going to be used, and I think Turkeybrook is going to be a long time coming. We all have our different opinions. My opinions on what we should do with Turkeybrook is totally different. I think what we should do with Turkeybrook is to build all the fields in places where they should be so that in the future if we want to put lights up or if we want to do anything elseBright now, we need fields there. I think that=s where the money should be spent at Turkeybrook. As far as the lighting is concerned, I think the lighting should be put for this particular operation, this particular facility there. And I will vote AYes@ for it.

Mr. Guenther: I have a question. I would like an explanation of Ordinance #18-2000.

President Sohl: Ordinance #18-2000 is there in case #16-2000 fails. If we don=t pass #16-2000, we have another two weeks down the tubes. That=s how that came about.

Mr. Scapicchio: The funding amountBwe kept it at $600,000 even after the Administration had requested, and we agreed to adding the Tot Lot, the track and the island crossing, and the sidewalk and the parking lot. So if we defeat #16-2000 and #18-2000 is passed, I think the funding that was there for the lights it probably still needs to remain there to fund those additional items that we discussed. Am I correct, Mr. Casey?

Mr. Casey: Our fear at this pointBgiven the bad market conditions out there, that you=re not going to be able to do it under any circumstances for $600,000.

Mr. Heymann: So, we=re going to spend the same money for a Tot Lot. Let me askB

Mr. Scapicchio: You missed the last meeting. That=s what happened.

Mr. Heymann: So I missed the last meeting. Is that an issue?

Mr. Scapicchio: The only issue is the funding amount that everybody is talking about.

Mr. Heymann: Well, I want to discuss that then.

Mr. Scapicchio: What I=m suggesting isB

President Sohl: Can we do one Ordinance first?

Mr. Heymann: No because they tie in, Bill. Pull up a seat. If we=re going to sit here, we=re going to sit here. I=m going to discuss this, dang blast it. I=ve been discussing it for ten years. Just a few more moments. Let me get this straight. We=re going to fund the same thing for a Tot LotBwhich I have no problem with a Tot LotBI would increase the whole funding to put lights and a Tot Lot down there, to be honest with you. But we=re going to give a Tot Lot because there are more people that will use the Tot Lot than lights. I=m just trying to equalize how we=re spending the money because I want to know why we=re spending money for a Tot LotBhow do you justify that if you=re not going to justify the fact that we need lights for a baseball program.

President Sohl: I don=t disagree with you, Ron.

Mr. Heymann: I know you don=t, I=m just making that in general. Let me go through some of my other thoughts while I have it. We=re denying this because we don=t give variances. So, if I read Charlene, if that=s right, then you wouldn=t give a variance if someone=s garage encroached on the next door neighbor=s property, because that is a violation of the Zoning Code. But you sat on the Planning Board, people get variancesB

President Sohl: We wentB

Mr. Heymann: I=m not done yet, Bill. So, what does that mean that this exceeds the 70' height? I don=t get that.That wouldn=t pass if you sat on the Planning Board and the Board voted it down, when you went to Judge Stanton, who would say, AThat=s your basis for overturning this?@ I mean, at least let=s put a definitive reason when you=re going to vote ANo@ for something. That=s all I want. I want it to be clear for everyone here as to why we=re doing it, and not some, whatever motive there could possibly be because that doesn=t pass the ALaughing Test.@ Mr. Greenbaum knows about the ALaughing Test@ that=s when you make an argument that=s so ridiculous you can=t go forward with it. Now, Mr. Rattner was concerned about taxes. So, my explanationBmaybe you doubt that a CPA with a Municipal Firm prepared this for me indicating that $200,000 would cost a taxpayer $2.53. Because that=s what the concern wasB

Mr. Rattner: That=s not what I said.

President Sohl: All rightB

Mr. Heymann: Well, that=s what I want to know. Because you said beforeB

Mr. Rattner: I said how many of these $200,000's before it starts adding up. I said we have a lot of them. This isn=t the only one. I=m saying at some point you have to stop sayingBright now, tonight, we just talked about increasing the cost another $200,000. That=s exactly what I=m talking about.

Mr. Heymann: Well let me ask you this, thenB

Mr. Rattner: And you said you=d put it in there becauseB

President Sohl: One at a timeB

Mr. Heymann: Let me ask you this, Steve. What if you prioritize to spend the next $200,000 on? Because if you don=t want to spend it on the project that=s here to be voted on tonight, then you must want to spend it on something else. So, what could that possibly be? Because otherwise, why would we ignore this project?

Mr. Rattner: It could be open space. It could be drainage. We have a lotBand we=ve already spent a lot. We=ve already heardByou were hereBbecause I think that night when the Business Administrator said our debt load is increasing with everything going good, as it is now. And that=s with everything going goodBwith development continuing the rate that it=s been going. That=s with interest rates staying roughly where they are, and that=s with just the things that we already have on the cooker that we=re basically starting to make commitments to people on. That=s nothing that could coming up, something that could breakBthere may be a new regulation that says we have to upgrade something. That=s where we are today. I=m just saying, we have to stop this. We can=t start with a project, keep going $300,000, now it=s $500,000. Now we=re talking almost $1 million, now we=re saying Mr. Rattner (cont=d): we may increase it another $200,000. You can=t be everything. You don=t run your household like that, we can=t run the Town like that.

Mr. Spino: I call the question.

President Sohl: I want to get my two cents in.

Mr. Spino: I called the question. You can=t.

President Sohl: I can, I run the meeting.

Mr. Spino: No, you can=t. Ask the Attorney.

Mr. Rattner: We have to call the question.

President Sohl: But I run the meetingB

Mr. Spino: I called the question. I want to vote.

President Sohl: I run the meeting.

Mr. Spino: Okay. I=ll remember that.

Mr. Rattner: I don=t think he can do that.

Mr. Spino: I don=t think he can either.

President Sohl: Are you finished, Mr. Heymann?

Mr. Heymann: Yeah, why not.

President Sohl: I=m just going to make a couple of quick comments, and then we=ll let you call the question.

Mr. Spino: It will be too late then.

President Sohl: Again, I will be very brief. This comes down to one of those unfortunate situations that somebody that=s elected has to face every now and then, and that=s, AYou can=t please all the people all the time.@ And that just comes with the territory. A lot of the arguments, Alights/against@ don=t add up in my mind because they=re the same arguments that could be made for Turkeybrook or anywhere else. If you have residents opposed to lights in Flanders Crossing, you=ll have residents up on Sunset Drive and everywhere else. So, I think the issue of lights is either yes or no. We either have them in the Town, whether you have them in one place, two places, or whatever, you=re either opposed to it or for it. Mr. Heymann already hit the comment about variances. That=s already been addressed by the Planning Board. The comment about SeniorsBI don=t know why the Seniors would oppose it. We=re not talking about putting lights on at 2:00am. What better opportunity than have the seniors be able to walk down and watch a ball game? In any case, Mr. Spino, would you like to move the question?

Mr. Spino: No.

Mayor Licitra: I=m going to be even briefer than BillBbut the one thing that Steve did say about the memo that he got was the memo from myself. When I said, either we=re going to do this, a community park for everyone, or we=re going to get the bare bones, and get the baseball players to play on that field. I=m still under the opinion that it should be a community park and something for everyone. Not just for the Flanders people, but for everyone. I know we=ve gone back and forth, and I never got anything from the Board of Health as far as the facilities are concerned, Steve.

Mr. Rattner: He was hereB

Mayor Licitra: Maybe I fell asleep during thatBI=m not being facetiousBI don=t remember him sayingBsince we=re looking at anywhere from $150,000 - $170,000 for the sewer pipesBI know people think it=s ugly to have

Mayor Licitra (cont=d): port-a-johns in places like that, but they=re serviceable. So, either we=re going to do bare bones, get the kids on the field and let them play, or we=re going t make this a community park for everybody. I still stand on that.

President Sohl: Roll call.

ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority. Exceptions: Mrs. Kelly and Mr. Rattner voted NO

President Sohl declared Ord. #15-2000 as Passed on Second Reading.

Mr. Rattner: When are we going to do the Amendment for the $200,000 that we=re adding tonightBfor the Tot Lot?

President Sohl: We don=t have to address that tonight.


Ord. #17-2000 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Renaming International Drive to International Drive North.

Mrs. Kelly moved that Ord. #17-2000 be introduced by title and passed on First Reading and that it be scheduled for Adoption after a Public Hearing on June 13, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. Mr. Scapicchio seconded the Motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Sohl: I will remove Ordinance #18-2000 from the Agenda.

Ord. #18-2000 Bond Ordinance Providing for Improvements to Flanders Park for Open Space Purposes in and by the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey, Appropriating $600,000 Therefore and Authorizing the Issuance of $570,000 Bonds or Notes of the Township to Finance Part of the Cost Thereof. (Flanders Park - No lights)


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements which may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Issuance of a Professional Services Contract to Schoor DePalma in Connection with the Project Referred to As the Reconstruction of Bartley-Drakestown Road.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Professional Services Contract to Schoor DePalma in Connection with the Wolfe Road/Flanders-Drakestown Road Sidewalk Improvements, Not to Exceed $12,850

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Business Administrator to Execute a Treatment Works Approval (TWA) Consent Form Relative to Wyndham Pointe (a/k/a Rickland Village - sewer/septic permit).

7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Regarding State Appropriation of Funding for the Recycling Grant Program.

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Grant Agreement Between the Township of Mount Olive and the State of New Jersey By and For the Department of Environmental Protection. (NRI Phase II - Recreation Plan)

9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Waiving Fees for Raffle/Bingo Licenses for Charitable and/or Nonprofit Organizations.

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Endorsing the MILLION MOM MARCH to be Held on Mother=s Day, 2000

12. A Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Refund to Elliot Rubin for Water Line Hookup Fees. (Canfield Ave.)

13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Opposing H.R. 2372 AThe Private Property Rights Implementation Act of 1999.@ (Litigating Land Use Action at the Federal Level)

14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer=s Agreement Between the Township and DPC Cirrus, Inc. (Flanders-Bartley Road)


Mr. Howie Weiss: On #14. It=s been a long struggle. I=m very pleased that=s it gotten to this point. They seem to be very fine people. I only hope with the professionalism that we=ve handled the first phase with can continue as we go to the next phase. I=m in total favor of this, and I think it=s great after what we=ve been through that we could have had. This is a real nice plan, and I thinkBcertainly, I=m as close to this as anybody else. I think it=s going to be real good. They=ll be a real good neighbor, and let=s hope that we can continue in the future this way.

Mr. Bonte: On #13. Is there anybody on this Council that can explain to me why the House of RepresentativesBother than the fact that I guess it=s big money from the Developers--wants to get involved in local land use? I support what you=re doing here.

President Sohl: Rich, I may be wrong, but I think it=s the end-run effort that the Developers are trying to do under the argument of AOh, we need standardsBwe have a patchwork quilt of things we have to deal with in this State versus that State.@ I don=t agree with it, I think that=s the whole object of Ahome rule.@ We have unique elements here that we set in motion based on our Ordinances to address Mt. Olive. Roxbury has their own, and they=re only a few miles away.

Mr. Bonte: Well, hopefully, you=ll all be voting AYes@ on that.

Mr. Borowski: On #6, what=s the benefit to the Town, and what=s the benefit to Toll Brothers?

President Sohl: I believe this is just a Resolution we have to pass just to make this happen.

Mr. Borowski: To make this happen? But what are the benefits to the developer and to the Town?

President Sohl: It=s more or less an active acknowledgment?

Mr. Borowski: Well, what if you didn=t?

President Sohl: We have toB

Mr. Rattner: If we don=t, a judge is going to tell us to sign it. Basically, it said we reviewed it, the plans are complete.

Mr. Borowski: But why are they coming to you? What=s the benefit?

President Sohl: The State requires them to come to us as a matter of appropriate notification, and this Resolution is acknowledgment that we have been notified and are aware of it. Council Comments?

Mrs. Kelly: I would like to remove #11 off the Consent Resolutions.

President Sohl: All right, we=ll move it to Non-consent.

Mr. Rattner moved for approval of the Consent Resolutions 4-10 and 12-14 and Mr. Scapicchio Seconded the Motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority, Exception: Mr. Spino voted NO on #10.

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer=s Agreement Between the Township and Rockefeller Group Development Corp. (330 Waterloo Valley Road)

Mr. Rattner moved for approval of the Resolution and Mr. Scapicchio Seconded the Motion.

Mrs. Kelly: I am not going to vote for any Developer=s Agreement when their E.I.S. is over 20 years old. And, the State requires them to do a wetland delineation because wetlands can change in 20 years. Well, so can threatened and endangered species on the site, and so can threatened and endangered plants change in the course of 20 years. I attempted to bring up several times in the last five years two Coopers Hawk=s nests, which is a State threatened species, have been found in the Budd Lake areaBprobably less than a mile from this site, and they refused to even consider requiring that this Developer update their E.I.S. So I have the privilege of voting ANo@ on this, and I intend to do that.

Mr. Rattner: Mr. Spino, do you remember the historyBor were you sitting on the Board?

Mr. Spino: When this was voted on?

Mr. Rattner: YesBwhen it passed the Planning Board.

Mr. Spino: Yes, because it passed just recently. My two objections areBthe E.I.SBI did get the Attorney for the Trade ZoneBand it=s usually the same attorney all the timeBto agree that the next development that they come in with, that they will redo a general E.I.S. for the whole development. My opposition is not what Charlene=s is, my opposition is the fact that they were not willing to pay their fullBwhat I believe to be their full due amount for our COAH number. I believe it was around $70,000, but because this approval supposedly goes way back before COAH numbers were issued, and before we had our Ordinance in place, I still think that they should have honored that, so I=ll be voting ANo.@

Mr. Rattner: I still don=tBthe E.I.S.Byou agree with Charlene that there wasn=t one done, but you don=t seem to be worried about itB

Mr. Spino: NoBnot worried about itB

Mr. Rattner: But it=s not a concern--

Mr. Spino: It=s a concern. I thought it was unfairBI came in at the Planning Board level when this came inBjust this past January. My opposition was I thought they should have done another E.I.S., but they had already done this work. I thought it was unfair for them to go back and do another one. I did get an agreement with them because their original E.I.S. was for the whole propertyBin 1980B20 years ago, and I said the same things that Charlene said, that things change in 20 years. Wetlands change, wildlife changes. But to get them to do an E.I.S after all this was done, I thought was unfair. I did get a commitment that they would do itBa new E.I.S. for future development. I personally was satisfied with that. I wish I could get them do it for the whole thing, or for this project, but I didn=t think that was possible. So I took that route.

Mr. Scapicchio: I agree with Charlene, and the updated E.I.S. I=m not concerned about the dollar amount of their fair share COAH. I read Mr. Dorsey=s memo and I tend to agree with what he said in there. So, I, too, will vote, ANo.@ I=d like to see an updated E.I.S.

Mr. Spino: At this pointBI=m not sure if we could go back and have them do an E.I.S. for this project since they=ve already received Planning Board approval? I don=t know.

Mr. Rattner: Do we have any right to do that at this point, or do we end up getting hammered?

Mr. King, Esq.: My gut feeling is, they would fight it, but you could always ask them to do the E.I.S.

President Sohl: Mr. Spino has already got a commitment from them to do oneB

Mr. Rattner: On the E.I.S., it passed the Planning Board, the Planning Board gave their approval. Can we now vote down something that the Planning Board said was okay? Are we overstepping?

Mr. King, Esq.: They=re different powers. The Planning Board has given their okay. You can=t supercede them.

Mrs. Kelly: We are voting on the Developer=s Agreement, and we have that privilege, and I=m going to exercise my privilege to vote, ANo.@

Mr. King, Esq.: There are certain monies in that Developer=s Agreement, right?

Mrs. Kelly: I don=t disagree with the monies that are in it, I disagree with the lack of having an E.I.S.

President Sohl: That=s not a part of the Developer=s Agreement.

Mr. King, Esq.: You still hold the money, though.

Mr. Spino: The E.I.S. is never in the Developer=s Agreement.

President Sohl: That=s a function of the Planning Board process.

Mrs. Kelly: We had approved some that had to go backBin fact I can name two that had to go back and redo an E.I.S. specifically for those Cooper Hawks. So, we=ve done it in the past, and we can do it now.

President Sohl: Mr. Spino already spoke to them about the E.I.S.

Mr. Spino: I spoke to them at the Planning Board level. They had finished the body of work for the presentationBand that started before I was involved on the Planning Board. They did not do an E.I.S.Blet me restate that, they have an E.I.S. It=s 20 years old. The E.I.S. was done for the general property of the Trade Zone. That=s the one they=ve been using all the while. My opinion is, and Charlene=s is they should do a new one for this property. They were unwillingBthey were too far advanced, they were unwilling to do that. I did get a commitment, as I said earlier, for them to do it from now on. Whenever they come in again, to have new E.I.S.=s done. Charlene believes they should do one for this property. I=m not sure I would be willing to require them to do it.

Mr. King, Esq.: Would they? If they were requested?

Mr. Spino: To be honest with you, I don=t think they would.

President Sohl: I think they=re trying to move forward. It=s been going on for a while.

Mr. Spino: But I won=t speak for them. I don=t think they would do it nowBto go back there without a fight. Without some kind of a legal fightBI don=t know, maybe I shouldn=t even say that.

Mrs. Kelly: Now we=re going to be afraid of legal fights?

Mr. Spino: No, I=m not afraid of legal fights.

Mrs. Kelly: Okay.

Mr. Spino: I=m voting ANo@ on it, but I=m voting ANo@ for different reasons.

President Sohl: Any other comments?

ROLL CALL: DEFEATED Mr. Heymann, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mrs. Kelly,

Mr. Spino voted NO

Mr. Rattner, and Mr. Sohl voted YES


1. Bill List.





Budd Lake Rescue Squad

May, 2000 Contribution

$ 4,500.00

Flanders Rescue Squad

May, 2000 Contribution

$ 3,100.00

Mt. Olive Public Library

May, 2000 Contribution

$ 20,000.00

Jack Kroft/Babe Ruth Baseball

Township Contribution, 2000

$ 3,900.00

Stedwick Village One

Reimbursement for 1999 Snow Plowing

$ 2,535.00



Second Quarter Billing 2000


Schoor DePalma

Water System Evaluation & Water

$ 6,656.50


Morris County MUA

Tipping Fees for Feb. 2000

$ 38,814.660


Jersey Professional Management

Temporary Administrator Services Provided

$ 4,420.00

Jersey Professional Management

Temporary Administrator Services Provided

$ 4,802.50

Bergen Mun. Emp. Benefit Fund

May, 2000 Medical Insurance

$ 93,104.23

Bollinger Fowler Insurance

May, 2000 Dental Claims

$ 11,595.20

Mrs. Kelly moved for approval of the Bills and Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously

2. Approval of Amendment to Bingo Application #918 for Knights of Columbus #6100.

Mr. Spino moved for approval of the Motion and Mr. Heymann seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously


Mr. Heymann: At the end of the Executive Session, I gave Mr. Dorsey a Bill to ask him to draw a Resolution that we would approve, I hope. There=s a Bill that was drafted by the Senate, which indicatesBit goes to Workmen=s Compensation Benefits, and it says, if you get injured on the job as a volunteer, it says you should be paid what you=re earning. That=s basically what the Bill states. But, if you a retired and you=re not getting anything, you will be paid nothing. I want to oppose that because I think that would restrict volunteers from coming out and working when they retire and be still part of it. So, I asked John (Dorsey) to draw up a Resolution opposing that because I don=t think it would be very beneficial to the volunteers in the Municipality.

President Sohl: We=ll cover that at the next meeting.

Mr. Heymann: I told him, and he said he would do somethingBI gave him the Bill.

President Sohl: Any other comments?

Mr. Spino: At 11:15pm, I have absolutely zero.

President Sohl: I=ll simply sayBI know most of the people have left, but I have to admit, it was a very orderly process. Long as it may have been, everybody had their say.


President Sohl: I will now open the meeting to the Public. Is there anyone who would like to address the Council on any matter?

Mr. Robert Greenbaum, 104 Crenshaw Drive: I just wanted to thank Council for the time and effort that everyone put into the issue. You fight the good fight. Obviously, everyone had good reasons for the decisions that they made and I think that Mr. Rattner=s comments on this particular issue have to be kept in mind as we move forward and spending Township money in the future. Again, I just want to thank you.

President Sohl: Anyone else from the Public?

Motion made for adjournment. All in Favor, None Opposed. The Meeting was adjourned at 11:18pm.


William H. Sohl

Council President

I, LISA M. LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on June 13, 2000.



Mount Olive Township Clerk





Mailing Address:
Mount Olive Township
Post Office Box 450
Budd Lake, NJ 07828

Physical Address:
Mount Olive Township
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road
Budd Lake, N.J. 07828

Main (973) 691-0900, Fax (973) 347-0860

Business Hours:
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