Mount Olive Township Council Minutes
September 25, 2001

The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to order at 7:30pm by Council President Rattner with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

President Rattner: Before we go on with the itinerary of the meeting, I figured this would be an appropriate time for a moment of silence and reflection on the events in the past two weeks, since this was the first time we met. Also we have Township Residents who are in the Armed Services. Some are relatives of ours. Our Former Mayor, his son recently graduated from the Air Force Academy. To think of them because I am sure they will be involved.

According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this Meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle and the Morristown Daily Record. notice has been posted in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Heymann, Mr. Sohl, Mr. Guenther,
Mrs. Kelly, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio,
President Rattner.

President Rattner: I would also like to acknowledge the attendance of the Mayor, Paul Licitra; the Business Administrator, Sandy Kaplan; the Township Attorney, John Dorsey; Co-Attorney, Mr. King; and Township Clerk, Lisa Lashway. In our Audience I see the Chairman of the Pride Committee, also our Consulting Engineer, Mr. Gene Buczynski.

Environmental Commission Appointment

Mayor Licitra: I'd like to present to the Council the name of Chris Ide, for a term on the Environmental Commission. Chris and his family live in Bennington Woods, he also works in the Township and the Trade Zone. I think Chris will bring a great perspective to the Environmental Commission. He has already made his first meeting even though he wasn't sworn in. He has participated in the meeting. I'd like to present that to the Council, I'd like to have Chris sworn in.

President Rattner: Could I get a motion?

Mr. Scapicchio moved for approval of the motion and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.

Mrs. Lashway: This is not Advice and Consent, he is just announcing it.

President Rattner: He said if it was approved by the Council. Okay, we don't have to take a vote on it.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Chris Ide: Raise your hand and repeat after me. I Chris Ide do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State on New Jersey that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the Governments established in the United States and in this State under the Authority of the people and that I will be faithfully, impartially and justly perform all duties of the office of Environmental Commission according to the best of my ability so help me God.

President Rattner stated that Ice hockey Team Presentation will be delayed because they are still arriving.


Mayor Licitra: Just to remind everybody that the Candle Light Service will be put on by the Clergy and the Township on Saturday at 7:00. We're trying to get enough people involved as far as the schools, bands. A lot of people have come forward Color Guard, Fireman, the First Aid Squads. It's something that will hopefully bring our Town to hopefully begin the healing process. So I invite the entire Council and their families. As it stands now, I anticipate well over 300 people added and it keeps on growing because of people calling up and telling us that they are coming. So as many as we could have. They are more than welcome. I do invite you and your families and lets make it a non- firework event that next year or sometime during the year, we could celebrate. Thank you.

President Rattner: Thank you.


Mr. Dorsey: Just two things. Resolution No. 15 deals with the Resolution of our outstanding claim on the DTA site has been resolved for $45,000 which will be paid over a three year period, which essentially

Mr. Dorsey (cont'd): makes the Township whole in term of the four sites that are contaminated with petroleum in connection with the Budd Lake Sanitary Sewer Project. In No. 2, last year we closed on the sale of a number of parcels owned by the Township to the State in connection with what's referred to as the Budd Lake Bog, and we had to withhold $5,000 from the Township because they are in an imperfect In Rem Foreclosure. That was completed and the state has now released the $5,000 and I sent it on to Sherry Jenkins. Other than that it would seem that all our litigation is in limbo.

President Rattner: Thank you Mr. Dorsey.


July 24, 2001 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Sohl, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio
President Rattner
Absent: Mr. Heymann

Aug. 14, 2001 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Sohl, Mr. Heymann, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio
President Rattner
Absent: Mrs. Kelly

Mr. Scapicchio moved for approval of the Minutes and Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

President Rattner: Any discussion?

ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority, with the exception of Mr. Heymann abstained on July 24,
2001, and Mrs. Miller abstained on August 14, 2001.


School Correspondence

1. Letter received September 10, 2001, from Mark R. Mongon, Superintendent of Schools regarding the Traffic Flow around Mountain View School.

Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from Other Municipalities

2. Letter received August 29, 2001, from the Township of Hanover regarding Opposition to Increase the Speed Limit to 65 MPH on Certain Highways.

3. Letter received September 4, 2001, from Washington Township regarding the Master Plan Reexamination Report.

4. Resolution received September 7, 2001, from the Township of Randolph regarding a Resolution Opposing Passage of A-3366/S-1099.

5. Resolution received September 17, 2001, from the Borough of South River regarding the extension of polling place hours.

6. Resolution received September 17, 2001, from the Township of Mendham regarding support of Assembly Bill A-1420 having to do with Building Permits.

7. Resolution received September 20, 2001, from the Borough of Lincoln Park regarding litter abatement activities through the funds provided by the New Jersey Clean Communities Program.

8. Three Ordinances received September 21, 2001, from Washington Township regarding Land Use.

League of Municipalities

9. Letter received August 29, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding the Women in Government Breakfast.

10. Letter received August 29, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding the 86th Annual League Conference and Delegates Luncheon.

11. Letter received September 4, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding
League Seminar on Bridging the Gap B Best Practices to Improve Police B Community Relations.
12. Letter received September 10, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding a Resolution opposing as amended, the Family Home Occupation Act.

13. Letter received September 17, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Annual Business Meeting at the Sheraton Convention Center Hotel on November 16, 2001.

14. Letter received September 18, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding ARace for Governor / The Candidates Respond@

15. Letter received September 19, 2001, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Pre-Registration reminder for the 86th Annual League Conference.


16. Letter received September 7, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Transportation regarding Reconstruction of Cory Road.

17. Letter received September 12, 2001, from John Dempsey regarding an Application for a Lot Line Adjustment Variance for Barbara Baroni B Woodside (123 Drakestown Road, Washington Township / Block 10, Lot 9)

18. Letter received September 12, 2001, from Jay Troutman, Jr. regarding NJDOT Street Intersection Permit (Route 206 and Bartley-Flanders Road)

19. Letter received September 17, 2001, from the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection regarding Toll Brothers, Inc. / Concrete Box Culvert for Block 4400, Lot 86&108. (northwesterly of Flanders-Netcong Road crossing Turkey Brook)

20. Letter received September 17, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Project Start Up.

21. Letter received September 18, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Withdrawal of a Transition Area Waiver Averaging Plan, Letter of Interpretation-Line Verification, and Special Activity Transition Area Waiver Under General Permit No. 11. Applicant: Blue Atlas Nursery. Block 4500, Lot 8 (155 Flanders-Netcong Road).

22. Application received September 21, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Block 5800, Lot 41 (St. Elizabeth Church Parish Bldg.)

Correspondence From Legislative Representatives

23. Letter received August 28, 2001, from Assemblyman Joseph Azzolina regarding the NJ Home Occupation Act.

24. Letter received September 10, 2001, from Rodney Frelinghuysen regarding Shortage of Blood due to the Terrorist Attack of September 11th.

25. Letter received September 13, 2001, from Rodney Frelinghuysen regarding information on Employers on flights connected with the Trade Center Attack.

26. E-Mail received September 13, 2001, from Rodney Frelinghuysen regarding additional information on the Trade Center Attacks for victims and their families along with all fellow Americans.

Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards

27. Letter received August 30, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, New Jersey State Planning Commission, regarding Water Supplies.

28. Letter received August 30, 2001, from ASPIRE regarding the ACrossroads of the American Revolution National Heritage Area@.

29. Letter received August 30, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, State Athletic Control Board regarding Notification of Extreme Wrestling Regulation in New Jersey.

30. Notice received September 4, 2001, from Morris County=s Green Table regarding Land Acquisition in Morris County.

31. Letter received September 4, 2001, from Flanders Fire and Rescue Squad regarding Flanders Fire House Addition.

32. Abstract of Ratables received September 10, 2001, from the Morris County Board of Taxation.

33. Letter received September 10, 2001, from the Garden State Towman=s Association, Inc. regarding the new TRAA Towing B Law Enforcement Video.

34. Letter received September 12, 2001, from the Morris County Community Development regarding a Breakfast Reception.

35. Letter received September 17, 2001, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Community Affairs regarding Government Connect.

36. Letter received September 17, 2001, from the New Jersey Brown Fields regarding Conference / Trade Show.

37. Letter received September 20, 2001, from the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders regarding a Candlelight Prayer Service on September 23, 2001.

Land Use / Development Matters

38. Letter received September 7, 2001, from USDA Rural Development New Jersey regarding Financing Opportunities for Small Towns and Rural Communities.

Correspondence from Cable Networks / Utilities

39. Letter received September 4, 2001, from Comcast regarding several upcoming events.

40. Letter received September 5, 2001, from Cablevision regarding Channel changes.


41. Minutes received September 10, 2001, from the Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding the August 1st meeting.


42. Newsletter received September 10, 2001, from Council on Affordable Housing regarding Annual report, certification, approval of Raritan / New Brunswick RCA.

President Rattner stated that we had received 42 items of correspondence and asked Council if there were any comments on same.

Mr. Spino: No. 4. If we have not already done so I would suggest we send a Resolution opposing the passing of this Ordinance. Also No.6. There's a third I don't think is on our list, the Governor I don't know if he allready signed it changing the time.

Mrs. Lashway: This is already in effect. The polls will be open at 6:00.

Mr. Spino: Then I think if we can't send a letter of opposition to that then we send a letter protesting that they are extending the hours, but they are not providing anymore funds as far as I know.

Mrs. Lashway: In the Bill for this start up, there is payment in there, and we have received additional notice to track any additional costs and there is money in the Bill to pay for them.

Mr. Spino: Is that for the normal running, or to pay the people at work.

Mrs. Lashway: Before they increased the hours, they already increased this year the pay for poll workers up to $200 from $150. Then they changed the hours so the costs that will be incurred will be costs with staff in my office and possible overtime costs with janitors.

President Rattner: Anybody else have any other comments?

Mr. Kaplan: I just have a clarification. You had requested from the Administration that we have a Turkey Brook Presentation at the Public Meeting tonight, I've invited the Township Engineer and the DPW Director to be here at your insistence. Do we know when that is going to take place?

President Rattner: I thought that you asked that you would rather have it on a workshop session. But if you don't have any problem, I'll do it right now.

Mr. Kaplan: I spoke to you on the phone, yesterday and you had said that we would still have the presentation this evening and that is why I made….

President Rattner: We have a workshop after the Public Hearing tonight, after the Public Meeting.

Mr. Kaplan: I was under the impression that you had requested this.

President Rattner: Ok, we will have it now. That's fine. I was just going to have it fifteen minutes from now.

Mr. Kaplan: It is up to you. I was just asking when, because I asked the Township Engineer to be here.

President Rattner: Mr. Guenther would rather have it …. We may as well get the professionals out so if you don't have a problem with it we will have it right now.

Mr. Dorsey: I think they want to wait.

President Rattner: I thought that you suggested that it would be better to have it at a workshop, rather than a Public Meeting.

Mr. Kaplan: I called you and asked you to wait until October 2, at the workshop meeting for the presentation because we felt that we weren't prepared. When you and I spoke, you still stated that you would want to proceed with some form of a modified presentation even though I advised you that Mr. Casey could not be here this evening. So I still had asked Mr. Buczynski to come tonight and at least give you a brief update on the Turkey Brook Project..

President Rattner: Fine, we'll do it right now.

Mr. Heymann: I don't want inconvenience Gene, but why would we stop in the middle of a Public Meeting? This is going to be more than a couple of questions. We should move through this Public Meeting and than address it, otherwise we're all going to be short tripped in here cause I am going to feel rushed. I'm sure Gene does not mind spending a few more moments with us. He loves to be here. He likes the place.

President Rattner: When we usually have a public presentation, it is usually early at a Public Meeting.

Mr. Spino: I agree

Mr. Dorsey: Mr. President, you opened the Public Hearing on Ordinance #20 …

President Rattner: Well, I didn't start, I just started reading and then I was asked to stop.

Mr. Dorsey: No, you opened it. I heard you.

President Rattner: I said I was going to, I had not actually opened it yet.

Mr. Scapicchio: You're in charge of this meeting Mr. Rattner.

President Rattner: Ok, we'll wait. I thought I was putting it off, and then they said they wanted to hear it now.


Ord. #20-2001 An Ordinance of the Townshipof Mount Olive to Amend and Supplement Section 2-11-2 Entitled ASeparation and Collection@ of the Mount Olive Code. (Co-mingled recycling)

President Rattner opened the Public Hearing Ord. #20-2001.
President Rattner closed the Public Portion on Ord #20-2001.

Mr. Heymann moved for adoption and Final Passage on Ord #20-2001 and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.

President Rattner: Any discussion?

Mr. Spino: When is this going to start?

Mr. Dorsey: 20 Days after publication

Mr. Spino: We have everything in place?

President Rattner: Mayor, Sandy?

Mr. Kaplan: Yes. Everything is in place.

President Rattner: I believe we were waiting because it was to settle the contract between us and the County MUA who is going to be taking the co-mingled material.

Mr. Kaplan: The contract with the MUA is sitting on the Mayor's desk to sign as of today.

Mayor Licitra: Did it. Done.

Mr. Scapicchio: Sandy, how are we going to notify the residents that the change in pickup policy has occurred and on what date?

Mark DiGennaro: We had already drafted a letter that was indicative of what collection changes would be. The only problem is it was sent and ready to go for the weekend of the September 15, 2001. It was supposed to be effective September 17, 2001. In light of the situation that we had with September 11th, and the fact the meetings were canceled both ours and the County MUA's were cancelled that evening, they could not come up with a final contract for us to review and approve tonight, so that's why we have the contract now. The residents will get the letter. It will be dated unfortunately September 17, because they were ready to go from the printers, but as soon as they get it they can start.

Mr. Spino: There was some talk about trying to supply or acquire for the residents at cost or no cost, I don't know, for a container to use. Are we looking in to that?

Mayor Licitra: We are looking in to is the fact that we asked the Sports Program. The Baseball League jumped up, and are going to try to start selling containers, so the profits could be made by the sports programs. Otherwise I'd like to see them run with it for a little while and see how they do. It would bring money to their organization and let them do the work of trying to get these things out. Otherwise for the Township to provide this. For the Township to provide the big pick-up, for the Township to even look into getting the grass situation where we don't have to pay $3.00 a bag. For other situations that we want to give to our residents, we found the cost to be prohibitive as far as providing the containers, at least this year we will look into it again next year, but hopefully the Sports Programs could work out something with the residents, do it that way. What was the pricing we were looking at for the containers.

Mr. DiGennaro: I thought they were like $5 or $6 a container.

Mayor Licitra: Something like that. The Baseball League wanted to do it and jumped on the idea and wanted to do it, so that's what we are doing.

President Rattner: Thank you Mayor. Any other questions or comments on the Ordinance?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Rattner: I think the Public is going to be real happy to get that letter. That's been the topic of conversation for the past couple of months. I think they will be overjoyed.

Mayor Licitra: I have one question. Who is Mrs. Miller?

Mrs. Lashway: Mrs. Kelly
President Rattner: The former Mrs. Kelly

Mayor Licitra: Brand spanking new, huh Charlene….Congratulations Charlene.

Mrs. Miller: Thank you.

President Ratter declared Ord. # 20-2001 as passed on second reading.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING B (Public Hearing on October 23, 2001)

Ord. #23-2001 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Amending and Supplementing Section 88-1307 Entitled ATrucks Over 4 Tons Excluded of the Mount Olive Code (Establishing a 4-ton truck weight limit on Mooney Road)

Mr. Guenther moved that Ord # 23-2001 be introduced and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on October 23, 2001 and Mr. Scapicchio seconded that motion.

President Rattner: Any discussion?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


President Rattner: Okay. We'll move back to the presentation that we had scheduled. Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Perkins: Thank you Mr. President, Council Members, members of the audience. Good evening. My name is Ray Perkins. I am the Chair Person of the Mt. Olive Pride Committee. One of the things I have the honor of being able to do, is to give out awards to some of our young children who participated through the recreation department here within the Township. Normally for first place, and sometimes for individual achievements. Today I am honored to introduce to you to everybody out here as well as to the Council and the Mayor and the Administration. The Mt. Olive Youth Hockey League, who this year from the Morris County Youth Hockey League were the group champs. There were actually two groups. One was the Squirts, and the other ones are the Pee Wees. So at this point, what I'd like to do is bring the first Coach up for this course. Mr. Bob Peters. Bob, would you come forward? Also some of the young children that could not make it here this evening. The ones that are here are going to receive their certificates this evening, the rest of them. We will give them to the coaches and the coaches will be able to give them all to the children. Gentleman as we call your name, please come up and get your Certificates.

Brian Bellanca William Harrison John Prasisto
Brian Diaz Kyle Hutchinnson-Lundy Zachary Tabor
Christofer Dempsey Austin Knox Stephen Horrors
Timothy Geiger Doug Taylor Daniel Alexander
Steven Harrison Maxwell Thrun

The next group is the Pee Wees, I'd like to coach Gregg Sanchez to come forward please.

Kevin Harrison Joshua Weiss
Matt Bilheimer Sean Schiess
Scott Jaran Erik Mosca
Daniel Moore Melissa Magnusson
Keith Greisser Dan Lyons
Joseph Harrison Michael Brezinski
Christopher Bear.

Mr. Mayor, would you like to say a few words to the teams?

Mayor Licitra: This is one of the nicest things that we do. I really enjoy this. I want to congratulate you. I don't think people know the commitment that it takes. I was never in to hockey. My children weren't I was a four sport coach in town, although never hockey. But I did follow many of the children in Town. Thank you very much. I think a special thank you has to go to your parents. The 3:00 in the morning practices sometimes, 2:00. Getting you around to Mennen Arena, and places like that. It takes a special person, and those are your parents. So why don't you do me a favor, and put your hands together for your parents and thank them. And just think, the Jurans gave up a trip to China just to be here tonight. Right? Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming up and we will take a picture. I'll be the biggest one in the picture, but that's okay.


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.

Motion to approve Consent Resolutions

1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Professional Service Agreement with Niro Doshi. (BLSP closeout)

2. Resolution to Approve An Agreement to Renew Membership in the Morris County Municipal Joint Insurance Fund.

3. A Resolution Revising the Sewer Allocation Assigned to Block 400 Lots 1 & 2 (Morris Company).

4. A Resolution Rescinding the Number of EDU=s Assigned to Block 7702 Lots 16, 26, 27 & 28 and the Sewer Assessment and User Fees (Lakeview Estates).

5. A Resolution Rescinding the Number of EDU=s Assigned to Block 7702 Lot 2 and the Sewer Assessment and User Fees (Politi)

6. A Resolution to Amend a Contract with Rotundo Precast for the Supply of One Precast Three Sided Concrete Culvert (Change Order ITC South Road Project).

7. Resolution to Cancel Taxes and Municipal Lien #98-001 on Property at 201 Waterloo Valley Road, Block 404, Lot 1.

8. Resolution to Cancel Garbage Tax on Properties Erroneously Billed in Duplicate.

9. Resolution to Cancel Taxes on Gold Mine Road, Block 4100, Lot 11, Owned by the Township of Mount Olive.

Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of Three Deeds to Adjoining Residential Property Owners of a on Sand Shore Rd. (Pinnacle at Mount Olive Planning Board Requirement).

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Endorsing the Reauthorization of New Jersey Clean Communities Program (NJCCP).

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing an Administrative Vehicle Policy.

12. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of Morris County Cooperative Purchasing Contract.

13. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of Various State and Morris County Cooperative Purchasing Contracts.

14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Resolution of Litigation Entitled Township of Mount Olive vs. Pena, et als. Docket No. MRS-L-1207-98. (DTA site B BLSP Spill Cleanup)Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer=s Agreement Between the Township and K-Land No. 53, LLC (Oak Hill II)(Block 800, Lot 32)

15. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Business Administrator to Execute a Land Use Regulation Program Application Form (LURP No. 1). Statewide General Permit No. 11 Lakeview Estates)


Mr. Scapicchio moved for approval of Consent Resolutions No. 1 through No. 17 and Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion. No one wished to be heard and asked Council if there was any discussion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of President Rattner who voted no on
No. 1.


16. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to DVH Athletic Turf for Sod to be Installed at a Baseball Infield at Flanders Park (moved to non-consent)

Mrs. Kelly moved for adoption of Resolution No. 13 and Mr. Heymann seconded the motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion. No one wished to be heard and asked Council if anyone wished to discuss this Resolution.

Mr. Spino: I would like to see this work done, but really I don't know because if I am correct there is only one bidder on this item. I never thought it and still don't think that is the way to do business. I think the bids went out to three people.

Mr. Heymann: Well we got a letter from Gene that we all saw dated September 6, 2001. They contacted three companies. You know the problem is if you don't get it done, it is one more season. The only time we really have left to get this done, is now the next month of October. We'll have one more season where the field will not be used. This albatross that continues to hang on our necks, it is time to put some closure to it. The kids won't be able to use the fields next year if we don't do this. It is not playable down there. I thought that we had…. I know the phone poll had enough support. We were trying to do this about 2 ½ weeks ago, I know the vote came in either 4, 3, or 5, 2 and as usual, somehow we have certain Council people who have more power than others, even though it's one vote for one person and these things get pulled back down and we don't get to move on them. That's intriguing to me. Sometimes we have Resolutions that pass and they sit on desks. I am mystified by the way we could abuse the power.

President Rattner: Mr. Heymann, could you explain. This is the first time we brought it up at a meeting.

Mr. Heymann: We had a phone poll that came out from Mrs. Lashway that just asked about whether or not because of the timing of this, whether or not we would agree to move forward, and I know that the vote was in favor of it. I am commenting in general that it is ridiculous. I could just see another year gone by without playing. It's a shame. If we don't get this done now, I don't know who the soil expert is, maybe it is Gene since he has been dealing with soil so much. We are just going to miss another season. I just want to make sure we have enough votes to go after this bid, I know we are not happy about the price, but what are you going to do. That is the only person that bids on it. I don't know what else to do with it.

President Rattner: Mr. Heymann, I have a question for you. You were intimately involved with the baseball field that was put in behind the Budd Lake School, which went in very successfully and at reasonable costs. Eric got me the bill for the sod laid, The contractor laid for that there was $1,220. What Eric just told me he said well, looking at it that was a smaller field, so he said double it and that's what it should cost you. How do we go from $1,220? Eric is saying double it, he actually gave me the receipt of what it cost last time from the vendor that did it. To go to $16,000 for laying the sod.

Mr. Heymann: This was done after we left the organization, cause when we first put that field together we did not have sod. I haven't had a chance to speak to Buddy, but it says 3,500 square ft. sod installed on finished grade. Now I don't know whether we finished the grade up there, or whether the volunteers did that grade, or whether or not this company did finished grade. So I can't respond to that. But what's your solution? You tell me how you are going to have that field playable by next year if you don't have the sod finished by October. That's just what I want to know.

President Rattner: I understand what you are saying and we have to get it done, but when there is that big a price difference you start wondering what the heck happened. If we got it done, it costs you $1,220 - $16,000. Basically you're putting in a front yard. Because that's about how many square feet it is to put in what we're doing in Flanders Park. Now I understand what's going to be different is in the bid price, was included ripping up the field here. So that was an additional step that wasn't in that other one. But still you are talking about a factor of about 1500%. I guess we need an explanation. Sandy or Mark could you please address this.

Gene Buczynski: I can't address your $1200. For the record, I spoke to Eric right after that as well. He thought it was a reasonable price. So I am not sure why we got two different answers from them. As far as Mr. Buczynski (cont'd): what they did on that field, I can't tell you to much about that. Is it high? Extremely high? no maybe it should be $13,000 - $14,000. But $16,000 is not outrageous. You have to really take into consideration that there is already irrigation already on the site, that's handwork you have to do to lay the sod. It is not the regular small sod, it's sod and additional monies and there is preparation for the field. We contacted three expert companies. That's all they do. That's their business. I am not sure who installed it before. But Steve, you are not going to get someone to do it for $2,000 or $4,000. You are not comparing apples and apples.

Steve Rattner: What you are saying is you would have been happier if you had to estimate the costs maybe $13,000 - $14,000 just because of the timing, or whatever this time of year that only one contract is willing to do it.

Mr. Buczynski: The other problem is, originally we talked to them, maybe a month and a half ago about doing the whole field. You know you have a small portion of the field. You can't compare when you have small portion of the field. It might only take four or five hours to do it, however they're going to put in the price the cost of the labors for the whole day. It is very labor intensive. If you had a larger field, you can still do in the same day. But this small field is still going to take the same time. It is going to take a day of work.

Mayor Licitra: Refresh my memory Ron. I know we the did field behind Budd Lake for a steal. They did a lot of work. Murry did a lot of work. I remember right after that, didn't they do the field behind Mountain View and it cost them like $15,000 or something for it.

Mr. Heymann: We tried to do it. It never really worked. We got the graders in, and then we couldn't get the field because of drainage problems up there. The other field up behind the Municipal Building probably cost our Association close to $25,000, and that was just earned money. All of us went down there and did that but we never changed the infield. Now Buddy must have done that. They must have used their own money to put the sod in, and again I don't know anything about that.

Mr. Buczynski: Waiting the extra two weeks, waiting till now, you are really at a critical point. You have to decide if you want it or you don't want it. Your getting towards the end of the season, it is harder to get the contractor out right away. You need to get it started within the next three or four weeks.

President Rattner: Could you just speak a little bit more on the other field you looked at in the cost and what happened there when you went out for the bids, and they came back at around $15,000. Is that what you are saying? Behind the school. Another one?

Mr. Heymann: We didn't get any bids. That was an internal project that the Baseball/Softball Association decided to do on their own. The school allowed us to go in there. We got somebody to come in and do some grading. It just never worked. We could not get it done right. The slope was to significant and the drain off kept coming in whenever it rained, and everything went.

President Rattner: What was the $15,000. Was that the sod being….

Mr. Heymann: That was the cost of what we did for some labor. We didn't put any sod down on that field. I can't remember what the grill cost was. We paid for it. The Aassociation did it themselves.

President Rattner: Mark, have you ever put in a baseball field in any of the towns you worked in?

Mr. DiGennaro: No sir, I haven't

Mayor Licitra: Just look what it is costing you in Turkey Brook. Average fields are costing you $200,000, or something near there. $200,000 for a Baseball field.

President Rattner: But we have already spent more than that on this baseball field. So are we just talking about a remediation of a small spot? Infield Grass. Okay. Mr. Spino.

Mr. Spino: My concern is simply the fact that we only have one bidder.

Mr. DiGennaro: We contacted three firms that are in the business. We called them more than once to try to get them to bid. One guy said it is just to small of a project; we are not going to submit a bid. Originally he was interested but he said it was just too small. The third guy, we faxed him four or five times. We asked him for a response, and he said he was not interested.

Mr. Dorsey: The fact that there is only one bid is not an obstacle to awarding a contract.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Spino who voted no.

19. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Applying for a Grant to Retrofit the Existing Library.*

Mr. Scapicchio moved for approved Resolution No. 19 and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion

President Rattner opened the Public Portion. No one wished to be heard and asked Council if any one wished to discuss this Resolution. Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

20. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Mayor and the Township Clerk to Execute an Agreement Between the Township and Rochelle Construction Co., Inc. (no bid contract)*

Mr. Scapicchio moved for approval of Resolution No.20 and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion. No one wished to be heard and asked Council if any one wished to discuss this Resolution. Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

21. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive to Foreclose In Rem Certificates Held by the Township of Mount Olive.*

Mr. Spino moved for approval of Resolution No. 21 and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion, no one wished to be heard and asked Council if anyone wished to discuss this Resolution. Seeing none

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

22. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Memorializing Their Intent to Dedicate 8 Acres of Property for Library Purposes for a Period of at Least 20 years.*

Mrs. Miller moved for approval of Resolution No. 22 and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion, no one wished to be heard and asked Council if anyone wished to discuss this Resolution.

Mr. Spino: I had originally asked way back, I forget how long it was that before we do this we get a plan on what the available use or what we could use the rest of that land for. It has always been my thought that we could use it for something, even if it is only parking, to help alleviate the parking problem we have in the parking lot now. So I will be voting no.

President Rattner: The reason that we are doing this Resolution is for the Grant Application that the Town put in, for the building of the libraries. They required that we allocate the land to the library for the purpose of the building for a minimum time of 20 years. The reason why I think we don't have any firm plans on how much room we are going to take and what the building is going to look like, because I think they are waiting to see how much money we are going to really have to spend. I know that the Council has appropriated a certain amount of money, and I know we are waiting to see how much in grant money we are going to get. Then they'll know their Budget and then work from there. Is there any other discussion?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Spino who voted no.
23. A Resolution Approving Change Orders 5, 6 and 7 to the Contract for the Development of Flanders Park and Accepting the Completed Work.*

Mr. Guenther moved for approval of Resolution No. 23 and Mr. Heymann seconded the motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion. No one wished to be heard and asked Council if anyone wished to discuss this Resolution.

Mr. Guenther: I just want for sake of the public record that this seeding is being properly done with topsoil being laid down so that the seed will actually take.

Mayor Licitra: No, what do you want me to tell you?

Mr. Guenther: Well, we have had snafu's before on this. I just want to be absolutely sure that the proper base work has been done so we have seed that will actually grow into grass that will stay.

Mr. Kaplan: That is our intent.

Mr. DiGennaro: Unfortunately I have not been involved in the project Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Kaplan: That's the intent.

Mr. Scapicchio: Has anybody inspected it to make sure that it has been done.

Mr. Kaplan: Mr. Casey has inspected it on numerous occasions to make sure that the work has been completed or that change order wouldn't be here in front of you tonight.

President Rattner: Any other comments?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Scapicchio who voted no.

24. A Resolution in Response to the Attack on America

Mr. Scapicchio Moved for approval of Resolution No. 24 and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.

President Rattner opened the Public Portion.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: First of all I would like to commend the Mayor and the actions that he took and the letter that was sent to all the residents, in the last week. Changing the scope of the celebration this weekend to basically a memorial of the people that were killed in the World Trade Center, and Pentagon attacks. I would like to ask that we… I don't know if there has been any residents from Mount Olive that have been involved in this whether we know that yet or not. But if there are, that we might consider some type of plaque to maybe be installed outside in an appropriate area commemorating the names of any victims of Town Residents who were attacked by this brutal terrorist attack to remember them, their families and all the citizens of America that have been attacked by an act of war. Thank you.

President Rattner: Thank you Mr. Bonte. Would anybody else from the Public like to address the Council? Seeing none any Council comments?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Okay at this point we'll put in and we'll review our progress report on Turkey Brook. Mr. Kaplan.

Mr. Kaplan: I have asked Gene to come here tonight at your request to make a presentation and give you an update on Turkey Brook.

Mr. Spino: I thought we were going to finish our Public Meeting.

President Rattner: They wanted this as part of the Public Meeting.

Mr. Spino: He just said he asked for a workshop meeting.

Mr. Kaplan: My original request was to put it on the workshop meeting. You sent me a memo right here in front of me that says that you wanted it on the Public Meeting, and we discussed it on the telephone. That's why I made the arrangements for this evening for this presentation

President Rattner: Then you mentioned when we talked yesterday about what you could get together, saying it would be better if we put it on the workshop since it was just going to be a progress report with not a lot of input, you just wanted to have the professional, or who we had just give it. Then before when I said that I was going to put it on the workshop that was following tonight's Public Meeting, in other words in another 10
minutes. You kept saying no, you said you were going to have it on the Public Meeting. So I said if that is what you want okay. I was going to put it on a workshop, in about five minutes.

Mr. Kaplan: In one of the memorandums that I sent to the Governing Body, I said that one of the things I wanted to discuss at this meeting was the possible extension of Mr. Casey's contract as it relates to the Turkey Brook Project. In order for us the Council doing that since this is your last regular meeting of the month and Mr. Casey's contract expires at the end of this month. If your going to take any action to extend the contract, and that was part of the discussion that we wanted to do at the Public Portion of the meeting, you would have to take the action at the Public Meeting.

President Rattner: So why am I being argued with when I tried putting it on the Public Meeting instead of the workshop and everybody said no, lets close the Public Meeting. These are going to be wonderful Minutes to go through. That's why I was putting it on now before we close the meeting. So do we want to discuss it now or not?

Mayor Licitra: Could you vote on Bob Casey in a workshop?

President Rattner: No.

Mayor Licitra: All right so. Bob Casey does not work for this Township come October 1, 2001. Do you want to jeopardize the project? Go ahead. At this point in a matter of semantics. That's fine. But I think you have to deal with the Casey situation first, and then what you have to do is then at that point then you could deal with the Turkey Brook, and Sandy said if you don't want to deal with Bob Casey then I'll just tell him to go home on October 1, 2001.

President Rattner: Well both of the things are together and I think that we are here to know the status of Turkey Brook and then you are gonna tell us why we need Mr. Casey.

Mr. Kaplan: Part of the presentation was exactly that.

President Rattner: So then we've got to have it now. Does anybody have a problem with doing the Bill List and Motions first?

Mr. Scapicchio: You're in charge Mr. Rattner.

President Rattner: I tried but then I got yelled at before when I tried putting it on the Public Meeting staff. Okay. Bill List. Mrs. Miller.


1. Bill List

Mrs. Miller moved for approval of the Bill List and Mr. Heymann seconded that motion.

President Rattner: Any Discussion? I just have one comment on the Bill List I have already talked to Mr. Kaplan. I noticed that the vehicle that was purchased/leased for the public works director, which was just received. We are already making the second payment. We started making payments on it before it got received. I just disagree with that type of payment policy. If we don't receive something, we don't pay for it until we actually get it. A lot of things can happen. We could have problems. There could be a work stoppage, or something to that effect, and to start paying a month or two before we actually receive the vehicle to me does not make a lot of sense. I don't know of any leasing company that would actually force you to pay for a vehicle before you actually receive it. Mr. Kaplan did mention that a lease, is a lease to buy. For 36 payments, and then basically for a $1.00, we own it. So we are going to pay the same , and I understand that, it's just that I figured, if were buying something we should expect to see it first.

Mr. Kaplan: After you and I discussed it today, I did additional investigation in it. Mr. DiGennaro recalled that when we negotiated with the leasing company for the Ford vehicles, it was one contract for the Ford vehicles, and it would be 36 equal payments. By negotiating that way and not separating out the Ford Explorer because it may or may not have been delivered with the other three vehicles, we were able to negotiate a lower percentage on the lease agreement for the Ford Vehicles. So that was one of the reasons why we went ahead and made the payment, because once the three vehicles were delivered, we were required to pay.

President Rattner: I just said that I disagree with that also. At the time we purchased the vehicles and why we paid what we did is we were told that all four were in stock, and that's why we were taking what was there, and why we were buying the models and whatever. That is No. 1. No. 2 is Odyssey. We still have the Odyssey bill. Again remember, we took it off last time. It is back on here. Do we have any further discussion or anybody that wants to make any comments now on those two items?

Mr. Scapicchio: Are we going to take the Odyssey payment off?

President Rattner: They put it back on there, we need to discuss it first and see which way we are going.

Mr. Scapicchio: How would we do that? In the form of a motion, to remove that?

Mr. Dorsey: That would be a way to do that, you could make a motion to remove that one.

President Rattner: And then what? Discuss it separately.

Mr. Scapicchio: I would make a motion myself just to remove it. In my opinion, it has been discussed, and I am satisfied with the way that discussion went.

President Rattner: Do we have a second?

Mr. Scapicchio: So I would propose that we remove the Bill for Odyssey that we were not on the Bill List, from the Bill List.

Mrs. Miller: I am not sure about that.

Mr. Spino: I am not sure I understand why.

President Rattner: We took it off the last time.

Mr. Spino: I understand that. Mr. Scapicchio said he got all the information he needs to ….

Mr. Scapicchio: We had a discussion and I thought it was agreed to that we were not paying that bill.

Mr. Spino: No.

President Rattner: It was a tie vote. It didn't go anywhere so we said we would take it up to the next meeting. Now we have….

Mr. Scapicchio: So then I guess we will remove it from the Bill List and we will discuss it as a separate item.

Mr. Guenther: You stand corrected. I think we are going to check with Mrs. Miller to see what her feeling was on it.

President Rattner: We needed another vote because it was 3/3. We were going to wait until Mrs. Miller is here so we could vote again.

Mr. Scapicchio: Mr. President; Mr. Dorsey had given us a pretty detailed memo and I would just ask that maybe he could review that for us.

Mr. Dorsey: This was a case with Odyssey in which the First Aid Squad had always wanted the contract to be given to Odyssey. On two occasions going back to 1999, we rejected the specks that had been bid because the specs were not bid in such a way that there could be any competitive bids. For instance; the specs are drawn provided that the equipment had to be manufactured within a 5 mile radius of Mount Olive. I don't think that to many people… No one could think that was a competitive provision. We finally came to some agreement as to how the specks should be drawn so other people could bid. There were 5 bids. As a result of the bids, Mr. Rattner and I know Mr. Casey was here for some of the hearings. We held a Public Hearing in this room, relative to the various proposals that had been submitted. The bids were competitive. In the midst of those Public Hearings, a bidder who did not stand a chance of being awarded the bid pointed out that the specifications were not practical because it was said that the generator which was specified was not of a sufficient capacity to permit the entire
system to work. Suddenly people walked out of this building and went out and checked the First Aid vehicle that was out there, and everybody came back and acknowledged that the generator which was on that vehicle was larger than the one that was then in the specs. Ultimately, one or two of the lower bidders were

Mr. Dorsey (cont'd): disqualified or withdrew. The representation was made by Odyssey. He was prepared to equip the vehicle with a generator that was of sufficient size, to make the system work. He wrote a letter to the Mayor and Council, advising the he indeed was going to change the size of that generator and make it different than that which was required in the specs. That letter was referenced in a resolution that I drew to award the bid to Odyssey. So presumably, the equipment was to come with a generator of sufficient size so that the system would work. Did I state that reasonably correct from your recollection Mr. Rattner?

President Rattner: Yes.

Mr. Dorsey: Now as I understand it, what happened, if the vehicle was delivered not with the generator of the size that was agreed to but with some other size and now a bill for an extra has been submitted. I don't know whether the generator has been changed, apparently Odyssey is now requiring additional money to do what think we thought that they had agreed to do for no further charge.

President Rattner: I just want to correct you on that letter. What they said is they would make the proper adjustments that it would work. It didn't specify, but that's….

Mr. Dorsey: They did specify because they said 6.2 something or other.

President Rattner: They did something. They were also changing some other equipment that would use less power. A separate motor on a compressor or something. What they did say is that they would maintain the price and give us the machine. A truck with the generators that would power all the equipment at no cost. That was reflected in the resolution.

Mr. Scapicchio: John, is it your legal opinion that they had to give us a generator that worked the equipment on that vehicle.

Mr. Dorsey: In a general sense, yes.

Mr. Scapicchio: Thank you.

Mr. Scapicchio made a motion on the table to remove the Odyssey bill from the Bill List and President Rattner seconded that motion.

Mrs. Miller: I would like to correct my original motion to approve because I have just discovered that there is more than 17 pages here. We have another 24 pages under the 17 pages. So my original motion was to prove 17 pages but there are definitely more. There are two sets here.

Mrs. Lashway: Is your motion to approve both sets?

Mrs. Miller: Or do you just want to do one at a time?

Mr. Dorsey: I don't know what she is talking about.

President Rattner: She thought there were only 17 pages to the Bill List and there are really about 35.

Mr. Scapicchio: Steve, could you bring my attention to the page where that Odyssey Bill is please.

Mrs. Miller: And which set?

President Rattner: It is stapled to the revenue schedule, on the first grouping, right behind the motion.

Mr. Dorsey: Steve. You had a motion made and seconded to remove the Odyssey bill from the Bill List. So, you can take a roll call.

ROLL CALL: The majority voted no with the exception of Mr. Scapicchio and President Ratter who voted yes.

Mr. Heymann: So now we should vote on the Bill List right?

President Rattner: Is there any comments on the Bill List? I just want to make one more comment. Obviously it is going to be proved as that is the majority of the Board as it is sitting there. I just think it is interesting. I still can't understand why we are paying extra money when we didn't get what we paid for, and we have been told that we don't have a lot of extra funds available. So I really wonder where it came from. We had to go out and rent four vehicles. We just heard about the one that I spoke about. About the one with the
payments starting early, cause we didn't have any money in capital for that. We are look at some serious drainage areas that we want to get started on that we made commitments to residents, that we are moving with, but we are having trouble finding places to come up with the money. We are told we don't have the money for this. We don't have the money for that. We probably don't. But we can buy a truck, spend a couple hundred thousand dollars, it gets delivered in a condition that is not usable and yet we can just find these dollars so we could keep a good relationship with a vendor that we may never use again. This is all I have.

Mayor Licitra: Maybe I was in a different world, but when did I tell you I couldn't afford something. Tonight was the first time in two years that I said we may have to worry about what we spend our money on. But I don't think I ever remember telling you that we couldn't.

President Rattner: When we had the discussion on the vehicles that we leased. I said why are we leasing vehicles. It costs less in the long run, when you purchase. Leasing is another way of financing and it usually costs you more. We were told there was no money in the budget, to find the money to lease the vehicles, because we need a couple more vehicles, and that the only way we could afford to get the vehicles was by leasing them, because there is no capital money available. That is what we were told on that.

Mr. Spino: You were also talking about buying four vehicles opposed to spending $100,000. So this is a big difference and I don't think you could barely compare them.

Sandy Kaplan: Let me clarify what was said that evening. I had stated to you that you couldn't capitalize certain motor vehicles. The State Public Contracts law does not allow you to capitalize for passenger motor vehicles that are not used for emergency purposes. Two of the vehicles were Impalas to be used for administrative purposes. I had advised you that I placed it in my Budget and made the request in the Administrative Budget to lease two administrative cars. You approved that Budget with that in there. All I did was proceed with it to Council to award the lease contract for those vehicles. The other vehicles, the new Emergency Management Vehicle was also leased by using the funds of the Emergency Management Budget, and the vehicle for the Public Works Director was funded as a lease through the Public Works and Water Utility and Sewer Utility Budgets, and that's where that lease is being paid for. The State will not allow us to lease for Administrative vehicles through capitalization.

President Rattner: I am just saying, the money in the Budget. I am not talking dollars. I agree. I agree that the Impalas were in there. What we didn't have in there was the emergency vehicle.

Mr. Guenther: I just want to issue my opinion on this Odyssey issue. I agree legalistically all the points that Mr. Dorsey and Mr. Scapicchio brought up. However when we discussed this, I guess it was three weeks ago. I asked a very pointed question of the fire people, the rescue people, as to what would this have cost? Apparently Odyssey did take a discount on this additional motor and if they had put the right motor in, in the first place, it was their opinion that it would have cost the same thing as we were being asked to approve now. Sometimes we have to go back and say, what is practical? Are we going to just for the matter of principal be involved in lawsuits, and other expenses that are not necessary. The other point, and I think I would like to state. I think the original error was compounded by the fact that the equipment was not properly inspected when it was delivered. It think the squad members themselves admitted that, maybe they overlooked that. I think we have to in the future, that proper inspections are taking place, when we receive delivery of equipment. The third point is that they felt strongly that there is a relationship here with this company that has to be maintained, and if we get involved in a legal wrangle with them they would have a very hard time getting the proper service, that they have already bought from us. I think just as a practical matter that is why I would vote yes to approve this Bill.

Mr. Dorsey: One thing I want to point for you. This was the result of competitive bid. Open competitive bid, and then a Public Hearing was held as to all these bids. So this was not something below the threshold, for public bidding, that one could just negotiate and put together. This was a Public bid.

Mr. Guenther: I don't understand your point.

Mr. Dorsey: The context of your statement I believe is that you know maybe this was something that less than $10,000, or $12,000 and you could just go out and piece it together and do as you like. There were five people who bid this piece of equipment. It was competitively bid. The prices were accepted as they came in and the Public Hearing was held on the specifications and on the bids as received. The bid was ultimately received based upon the competitive bids, and the representations that were made as a result of the Public Hearing.

Mr. Scapicchio: I would just like to add to what I have said before. That is that we all depended upon this expert, the expert from Odyssey, who was the one that designed this vehicle. He made the representation as shown through the documents that Mr. Rattner produced for us at the last meeting. Any concurrence with what Mr. Dorsey has told us tonight that his representation was that he would do whatever it needed with regards to that generator to make sure that the equipment worked. He guaranteed to deliver a product that was in working condition. He delivered a product that was insufficient, in terms of it's generator. He had to take that back and `retrofit that vehicle so that the equipment installed on it would work properly. After a competitive bid, if we go out and pay this additional $9,365 we are not serving the Public any justice. We were worried about warrantee. A lot of the items on this vehicle are not warranted by Odyssey, they are warranted by the manufacturer's of products that were installed on this vehicle through Odyssey, and if we pay this bill I tell you I would like to do some work for everybody on this Board that votes in favor of this so that I could send them some bills.

Mr. Kaplan: I just want to clarify, the last time we discussed this at the workshop meeting I provided the governing body with backup information which basically showed that the vehicle was delivered in February, accepted and approved by the First Aid Squad for payment which I did based on their inspection of the vehicle and the delivery. I was there the evening that the truck was delivered. Within two or three months after that I received a letter from the First Aid Squad, which I had advised that you make part of that document package. After subsequent testing, after they delivered and accepted the vehicle, they found the generator to be insufficient. They requested that I intercede at that point in time and open negotiations with Odyssey, to try to rectify the situation so that they got themselves an Emergency Vehicle that performed up to their expectations. I did the research. I met with them with the First Aid Squad present on numerous occasions, and requested from Odyssey and ultimately received from Odyssey in May. About four months after we accepted and paid for the truck as per the contract and the bid. I received from Odyssey a proposal to modify the vehicle by putting in, instead a 7.5-kilowatt generator, a 15-kilowatt generator that would then provide enough power to operate all of the equipment when in service. The original proposal was for $15,000. I negotiated it down to the price that you currently have in front of you. I did that in good faith based upon the fact that the First Aid Squad and the Township needed an emergency vehicle that would work when it responded to the scene. That's what I have presented to you tonight for payment, and that is the history behind this.

Mr. Heymann: I was hoping we would get off this, but I would rather put my two cents in. As I said to you when we discussed this during the workshop, I believe this is nothing more than Monday morning quarterbacking. If we had this issue before us, what had happened and the Fire and Rescue Squad would have come to us. We would have been faced with their comments, which they made here the other day that it was really a safety issue. They did not believe the vehicle could operate as safely as they wanted, we would have immediately paid whatever it was to make sure that this vehicle would have been out there. The only reason we are not now is because it is already in there and now we have a chance to go back and review what has already happened. Don't tell me for a moment. We spent much more money than this when we had eight citizens come up here and ask us for something. So I don't believe for a moment that if we were back in that time frame when they would have come up and said look " maybe we missed it" like they said to us when they were here at the workshop. We inspected it but now three months later it apparently is not doing what we had hoped it to do. It is a safely issue. Either Bernie or myself asked that specific question and they brought that to our attention and they thought it was a safety issue. That's what happened. Administration negotiated. The price went from $25,000 down to $16,000. I think it is time to move on. We are either going to vote yes on the Bill List or no on the Bill List.

Mrs. Miller: Since it was the sway vote, I think I would like to explain. I listened to the tape of your workshop. I vividly remember it was supposed to be part of the bids. I believe that we amended those bid specs to include that. However, after listening to everything, and listening to the First Aid Squad, I was told that the tests that they ran, I was at the splash down for the new vehicles. I was there they had the lights going, everything was functioning, and that was the test. It was not a second test that proved that there was failure. It was the first real call that they went out on. They were running everything and the lights failed because this generator could not hold everything that was running at once. So it failed on our first call three months later. That is when they came and said that we needed the additional…I do believe that the administration negotiated it down, and I think that they did that in good faith. I honestly feel that if we took it to Court, that it would cost us a lot more even if we win just in Court costs and Attorney fees. Where do we gain anything? I would rather keep it out of the Courts and that is why I voted not to remove it.

President Rattner: I just want to correct something. If we have to go to Court and have legal fees, they too will have Legal fees. And they are going to look at the same thing about whether it is worth it. According to the information that I have, it actually failed on their first drill within a couple of weeks. Odyssey actually came up to look at it. Odyssey actually stated, differences in remedies. They said it's weak circuit breakers, that they tested everything out. That they replaced the circuit breakers. They replaced some of the electronics. They said that is what was wrong. I want two things, exactly what our contract and our Resolution said where Odyssey Automotive Specialties Inc. agreed to maintain this price to build the vehicle to specifications and stipulations which we utilize for bidding and to correct the specifications dealing specifically with the generator at no additional cost and deliver the vehicle within 90 days. It was very, very plain. Also the next bidder that we wanted to go to, because of the delay, they said that they could deliver it but the chassis was now in Florida and they wanted to add about $1,500 worth of freight on it. Which would have made it a couple dollars more than Odyssey, so we didn't go with it, because we could of have with somebody else. Furthermore, we have the first option, and I do not know what happened. I think that the problem with Sandy is Sandy did not talk to probably people that were involved in the actual negotiations with it and went through all of this. Odyssey originally said that they would replace the… The generator would be about $6,000, and they'll give us a $3,000 credit, but then it was that now the Budd Lake Rescue Squad was out and they decided the brand Generator they wanted, not what Odyssey wanted to put in Also, you know this whole thing with the Rescue Squad, I understand that they want to keep a relationship.
President Rattner: But if you remember it took us two years to get this bid spec out, because the Rescue Squad kept coming in with specs that would only allow this truck to be built by Odyssey. They made so many different specifications, and that is where Mr. Dorsey, for that period of time, from 1999 to the late part of 2000 when we went out to bid, to get the bids that were legal. That is exactly what he told us. They were too restrictive just to direct it to Odyssey, and that is what they are continuing to do. I don't know what it is, but they have a special relationship with Odyssey before, they have it today and they want it tomorrow. It is going to cost us $10,000 for something that we competitively bid we had the hearing's we explained, they assured us they were going to do a certain job. In fact after they delivered the truck they had the center part of the Daily Record saying about how they delivered this wonderful equipment and they used the Budd Lake one as an example of one of their best pieces of work.

Mr. Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: I was under the impression at the last meeting that this was going to be addressed with a Resolution. Well that is why I would like to speak right now. I thought that in order to be able to change the terms of a contract that was competitively bid, and there was a Public Hearing on, and considering that now the total outlay to this vendor would be higher than the next bidder, that this would have had to been done by Resolution and Public Comment would be allowed. Thank you for letting me comment Steve. First of all, I find it very objectionable that a vendor can prepare specs and then subsequently bid on them. I think that this is a practice that we should outlaw. We went through this with the furniture contracts for this building when we were still in the old Municipal Building. It is basically a breach of Ethics. Nobody should be permitted to prepare specifications, and then subsequently bid on them. And you were given the wake-up call numerous times as Mr. Dorsey pointed out by how restrictive those specifications were written. But now in reality what we had was a situation where we basically were being held hostage. In order to maintain a "good relationship" and obtain service on this vehicle, we're being felt made to believe that we have to vote yes on this. If you honestly feel that it is fair to give this money to Odyssey and that it is in the best interest of the Township not only on this contract, but on future contracts and dealing with future vendors, not only Odyssey, then vote to pay this Bill. But if you believe that the vendor has not delivered what he promised to deliver in a competitive environment and now has raised his price to deliver a product that meets the specification that he wrote, that another vendor told you was improper what he bid, but you are afraid that you are going to be held hostage by this vendor or be put in a situation where your relationship may not be good with him the future, then vote to pay this. But I don't think that this establishes a good precedence on the way we did the competitive process in the past, or how we will operate in the future, and other vendors will look at this and say you can get away with anything you want in Mount Olive. Mr. Dorsey, I would ask that you advise this Board to vote no on this based upon your legal interpretation of were the goods that were promised delivered to the Township for the price that was set forth? Thank you.

Mr. Kaplan: One additional clarification. The specifications that you went out to on bid for this vehicle was approved by the First Aid Squad. The specifications had and I checked it a 7.5 kilowatt generator in the specifications. The truck was delivered and accepted by the Squad before I authorized payment. That was the understanding that I had with the Squad all along while this truck was being built due to the fact, that there was such a large concern over this vehicle and the vendor. I only paid the bill after the Squad said that they were satisfied with the delivery of the truck. It was subsequent to that when they came back and advised me that they were not satisfied with the size of the generator. It is then that I opened negotiations, and that is why the bill is on the Bill List. I can't do anything more than what I have done.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of President Rattner and Mr. Scapicchio voted no on Odyssey.

President Rattner: Moving right along, Mr. Spino would you do the Raffle Applications?

2. Approval of Raffle Application #1003 for NJ District #6, Vasa Order of America; Raffle Application #1004 for Church of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary; Raffle Application #1005 for the Roxbury High School Girls Soccer Boosters; and Bingo Application #1006 for the Knights of Columbus Council 6100.

Mr. Spino moved for Approval of the motion and Mr. Scapicchio seconded that motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Rattner: Now we could have the review of Turkey Brook.

Gene Buczynski: Due to the fact that Mr. Casey could not make it tonight I was asked to give the Mayor and Council a summary of what has transpired up to date regarding the project, and some other issues. As far as what is being bid. Right now we are bidding for three baseball fields, a football field, four soccer fields, a fifth soccer field as an alternate. As far as the type of fields, that was the discussion back and forth over the last several months between sand fields or soil fields. It will be all soil fields except for two soccer fields, which will be the sand fields. As far as what has been done so far at Turkey Brook which is the Phase I Grading Project. I think the project was supposed to be completed by September 23, 2001. I would say it is probably 85% - 90% completed right now. There were some problems during construction relative to depth of bedrock and some removal of materials, and some concerns and problems here and there regarding soil removal. I think several weeks ago there was a discussion about maybe 12,000 yards of fill need to be brought to the sight. There was a meeting held today with Mr. Casey and Mr. Seiko regarding some grades. I believe there is not going to be any need for additional material brought into the sight. I think it is going to be able to be graded with the material that is on the site. That was discussed this afternoon. Regarding the depth of bedrock it resulted in shifting of one of the fields approximately 100 ft. to the south, which also resulted in redesign by Stuarts office, which caused some of the delays a month or two ago relative to the design. You received a memo from Mr. Casey dated 9/19/01. This pretty much outlined the proposed scheduled timeline from now until the end, which was an advertisement date of September 24, 2001. A pre-bid conference October 5, 2001. A bid opening of October 19, 2001. A tentative award of the contract October 23, 2001. As far as the bid, the bid did go out yesterday. Right now he is on that schedule. There were a lot of concerns, I think some memos went back and forth regarding initial lump sum vs. unit prices. I think that if they discussed this probably for four to six weeks, which caused some of the delay in getting everything out to bid. We reviewed the project. We got a contract that was issued maybe a month or two ago, to review the plans. We are very concerned with the bid specs and the fact the bid was a lump sum bid. We have recommended for it to be unit prices. I went back and forth with Stewart's office. They did not want at first to do a unit price bid. They felt it was illegal which we went back and forth and we do it all the time up here so it is not illegal. Then they kind of compromised and wanted to just put some quantities in so the contractors would have a rough idea of what was being bid. But now they are revising it. That was not put in the spec. That is going to be the first addendum, which I think is coming up Friday from North Carolina relative to unit prices so that is going to be an addendum that goes out. I think a project of this size you will probably see several other addendums as questions come in from a contractor. Not to speak for Mr. Casey, but for a project of this magnitude, it is not uncommon to have certain questions. As far as permitting goes, there is a permanent application to Morris County Soil Conservation District which was submitted, I believe, on Monday. The only other outstanding one I believe is getting approval from Morris County Planning Board. I don't believe the final plans were submitted to them. They should not delay any other construction and a lot of the concerns of Flanders Road. The only other thing would be drainage concerns. We have just about a month before they award the contract. I think the plans are supposed to be submitted to the County the end of this week. We are getting revised plans from North Carolina submitted to the County. As far as any delays or when you think you finally will have playing fields available, I know over the last few months there was a lot of different discussion as far as schedule being revised and revised. The last I know, the schedule you had was probably 30 days behind that schedule as far as the projected date of the fall of 2002 still on schedule to meet the fields being ready for September 2002, unless you have a drastic winter of two or three months when we can't do anything out there. There is a plan that Mr. Casey had presented to you before. If you need I could show you which fields are part of the contract. I would be glad to do it again. It is what's shown here in pink. I believe it is the Phase I that the actual construction is in.

President Rattner: I'll let you finish before you start taking questions. But you just said that there was some movement and some changes. Could you show at least what the changes are, because I think we have seen what it originally was so at least we know where we are starting.

Mr. Buczynski: It is minor. Regarding the baseball fields, they will basically stay the same. Originally there were discussions of six soccer fields. The construction problems are back in this area which cause the shifting of the soccer field a 100 feet. I think because of estimates regarding how many fields you could do, one soccer field was taken out of the contract originally it was….It is minor. Regarding the baseball fields, they will basically stay the same. Originally there were discussions of six soccer fields. The construction problems are back in this area which cause the shifting of the soccer field a 100 feet. I think because of estimates regarding how many fields you could do, one soccer field was taken out of the contract originally it was….This was taken out. Right now this is the alternate field. So it's four soccer fields, three baseball fields and this field basically shifted a little bit behind to avoid some of the bedrock, which is close to the surface. But really nothing has changed from what was discussed a month or two ago.

Mr. Guenther: I walked the site extensively; I guess it was last week. This was in response to some concerns to residents in my neighborhood about what was going on there. I have some specific questions. Maybe my memory does not serve me correctly. How many detention bases are there on this site? Could you point to those again please? I know there is one at the top. This seems to me that there were temporary basins that were being created in other places.

Mr. Buczynski: The other places. There are small sedimentation basins which is required per Morris County Soil Conservation District. Rather than have a large basin for a sediment basin they had an intimate small soil sedimentation basins, which are temporary basins. The only two that are going to stay is the one like I said up by Flanders Road and also the one down the block.

Mr. Guenther: There are two large ridges of dirt that have been accumulated. One up near that detention base and another down below on the right hand side. Along that wavy line I believe if my memory serves me correctly, is that soil being used to re-grade the fields?

Mr. Buczynski: I have not been up there recently but I imagine that is the material we are going to be using for the final grading.

Mr. Guenther: Another comment that was made to me by a resident that backs right up there he is going by judgments he said that a couple acres of trees were knocked down. Could anybody address that to point out where the trees were knocked down. We have had that comment made here before by people, a lot of trees were knocked down. I thought it was just out by the road. I did not realize that on the interior of the site, there seemed to be…..

Mrs. Miller: Actually most of the woods that was between the old Middle School which is now Chester Stevens Primary School has been removed. That was going to be one of my questions, is how much of a buffer of trees did they leave the school driveway and the playfields because it looks to me to less than 50 feet. I thought that we had to leave a 50 ft. buffer. I also want to question, what is that area that is between that private home and the baseball field on the East side of the park up by Flanders Road? Those trees were all removed. There is a large percentage of trees that were removed there.

Mr. Buczynski: There is a section that was removed before the access road that goes in over here.

Mrs. Miller: That is the one. What is that structure in the middle of that?

Mr. Buczynski: This here is the maintenance area.

Mrs. Miller: I don't remember seeing that on the original plans. Is that new?

Mr. Buczynski: I don't believe it is new.

Mrs. Miller: That whole area was once woods.

Mr. Guenther: So that access road is for maintenance vehicles.

Mr. Buczynski: It is going to be an access road coming out onto Flanders Road. That was part of the design.

Mrs. Miller: Yes, that was part of that, but there was nothing on the other side of that as far as I remember. The plans that I have that we received in the packet when this was originally presented with the different phases did not have anything east of that maintenance road, or extra road.

Mr. Buczynski: I can't really address what happened at the beginning because I was not here.

Mrs. Miller: See that concerns me because…

Mr. Buczynski: This has been here for quite some time.

Mayor Licitra: That has been there since the beginning Charlene.

Mrs. Miller: Well it does not look like we have even given that enough of a buffer between that private home and that what has been cleared. I am concerned with the buffers that we have left between private residents and our school. In fact on of my questions was, I would like to know how many trees were cut down.

Mr. Buczynski: You have over 50 ft. here. It 's a 100 scale drawing. You have at least 50 ft, if not 75 ft. Over here behind these homes you have a lot of extensive landscaping. These buffers will be going in along that property. You have to excavate those fields, so that is probably what you see now, because there is going to be landscaping to put back in there. Down by the schools, I am just going off the drawing, but I am not aware of a lot of trees being taking down by the school. I could be wrong.

Mrs. Miller: I could be wrong, oh yea.

Mr. Buczynski: It might not be the Turkey Brook project.

Mr. Guenther: No

Mrs. Miller: I sat there and watched the trees come down.

Mr. Guenther: To me, where they seem to come down are the bottom two fields. You could see where the tree line used to run out much further into the vault of the property. Again. I don't know how much it was. But…

Mrs. Miller: I would say there was enough woods there probably about the size of a football field. It was not a large section of woods but, when you know what the trees were like before, and what they look like now. I want to know what the buffer is between. It looks like a 25 ft. buffer. In our own ordinances for I know the Planning Board stuff, 50 ft. buffer is required for just about every kind of construction.

Mr. Guenther: Gene, also along the buffer area between the trees and those playing fields, again I don't know if it is temporary, but there seems to be some sort of a drainage ditch there.

Mr. Buczynski: There should be no drainage ditch unless they changed something, which I am not aware of.

Mr. Guenther: It is not planned for. So what you are saying it is probably temporary again.

Mr. Buczynski: I would say so. I will check into it.

Mr. Guenther: I have discussed this with the Mayor. I know there was nothing in the original grading plan to provide for any walking path. On the other hand, it is my understanding that there is a grant from the State that we have, which we lose at the end of the year that could be used for this. Now the way this has been laid out is that the bottom portion of the part, which will not be touched, to me by walking around. A walking trail could easily be put in there to go around the perimeter of the property. Down there and coming back up in a loop, up toward the right-hand side of the park. I feel, especially the people in my neighborhood who have been looking forward to this for a long time as an area for passive recreation at least a walking trail that this is something they are always looking forward too.

Mr. Buczynski: Well we do have an access road, it is going to come all the way down here Bernie.

Mr. Guenther: I don't know. See, I don't see that now.

Mr. Buczynski: This is a pathway through here. All the way down.

Mr. Guenther: You say an access road for vehicles? When you say road it usually means vehicles, right?

Mr. Buczynski: Yes. You have both back here. You have an access road all the way. People could walk it when there is nothing going on. I am not sure what the intent was there I did not do the design. I was involved with the discussion of how they got the design to go this way.

Mr. Guenther: I will make the point again I still think something should be done to provide for the recreational needs of unorganized sports. Thank you.

Mrs. Miler: I am still concerned about the trees. As I said, I want to know what the buffers are between that private home and what was cut down on the eastside.

Mr. Buczynski: You want to know what the existing buffers are?

Mrs. Miller: Yes. Since the trees were cut down between that private residents' that on Flanders's Road that is the only one on the Eastside. I want to know the buffer of trees that was left between that residents and what they have removed and I want to know what the buffer of trees that is left between the Chester Stevens School and their driveway there. I would like to know how many trees were cut down, and what happened to those trees. Were they sold for lumber? Did we actually make money-selling trees because some of them were very tall and straight and looked to me to be good lumber trees, or did we just chip them. What happened to those trees. I know that we can't just bury them. I would like to know what happened to those trees. I also am concerned about the basin. She said we have temporary basins in. Does that mean that the basins that are in the plans have not yet been constructed?

Mr. Buczynski: No. There are additional, temporary basins strictly put in for sedimentation.

Mrs. Miller: But do we have the detention basins in place?

Mr. Buczynski: They are under construction.

Mrs. Miller: They are under construction now. And when will they be completed?

Mr. Buczynski: Well it is part of phase one of the project. The sedimentation basins are part of phase I.

Mrs. Miller: That I understand. So they are not completed yet, but they are under construction. Has anyone checked the site since it rained last night, because t was pretty heavy last night from what I understand. Has anybody been out there on the site. Is the detention basin collecting water now?

Mr. Buczynski: I have some site inspections tomorrow in AIG/Baker and other areas but I have not been up there.

Mrs. Miller: I went by with my school bus one day before the end of June last year after a heavy rain, and I saw muddy water coming out of one of the existing driveways on the Old Loop Road, and running down the street going into the drain that is over on that western corner. We should not have any muddy sediment water leaving that site under any circumstances. If it was visual to me, driving down the road, well I have some concerns about where it might be running if we don't have those detention basins under construction.
I hate it.

Mr. Buczynski: Everything should really concentrate on site at this point.

Mrs. Miller: There should not be any storm water running off that site onto a private road.

Mr. Buczynski: Correct.

Mr. DiGennaro: Mrs. Miller, we did have some originally. About a month ago we had some complaints about run off, after some of the major storms. There is a drainage ditch that parallels Sunset Drive that was a problem. We had Soil Conservation there. It was a Friday afternoon. I remember, it was about 6:00. It was a pretty intense rainstorm. A short intense storm and a lot of silt had come down and washed down and basically broke through the silt fences and the damns that they had set up. So we had Soil Conservation on the phone that afternoon and they were on site on Monday and they made some modifications to that so whenever we had the event, my department would get complaints, and we had gone out and addressed that with the contractor and took whatever corrective action that needed to be done. They had cleaned out the ditch; they put double thick lining of silk fencing up, hay bails.

Mr. Buczynski: Then that is the ditch you are referring to. Then that is going to be permanent then. There was an existing ditch there. I guess they made it deeper. Behind the homes on Sunset Drive.

Mrs. Miller: I have one last concern. I brought this issue up numerous times. The road going down to Meyer's Pond is very eroded and is really not safe, yet a lot of people are walking that road, and I was told that would be part of the construction to improve that road once the detention basins were in because it did not make any sense to try to improve that road before the detention basins went in, but I have never heard it mentioned in Phase I, Phase II, or Phase III of this plan. I would like to know when that road is going to be made safer so for our residents who are using that road and walking down to the pond. I don't know how you are going to keep people out of there.
Mrs. Miller (cont'd): I don't think you can just keep people out of there. People are there and they are using that, because if somebody gets hurt on that road, it is a liability as far as I am concerned, because we have not maintained it. It is our property. I have had people come to me and say why is this road in such terrible condition. If someone gets hurt on that, it is our liability. I am trying to prevent that. Yet I never hear any discussion about how that road is going to be improved. So I would like to hear some more on that.

Mr. Buczynski: I can't address it.

Mrs. Miller: So write it down!

Mr. Buczynski: It is down Mrs. Miller.

President Rattner: A couple comments. First, with all the soil movement, the contracts we have had up here in the memos that came from Casey and going back and forth, one mentioned that he told Olympus Group not to come up so often to look at what was going on since it was only soil to save money. But who was inspecting and who was watching when the contractors were in there pushing and cutting down the trees and pushing the soil back and forth. Who has been over seeing that?

Mr. Buczynski: Well I have an inspector who has been overseeing the project on a daily basis, but not eight hours a day. I will have to check with him. I did not hear of any concerns about trees being taking down. You are asking me who, I said we are supplying the inspector.

President Rattner: I do not have a concern with your firm with inspection. I just want to know if it is being inspected, because in the memo I saw where we were giving Olympus relief and there was good reason for that because we pay for their travel time. So I mean that makes sense if someone else can do it.

Mr. Buczynski: We were contracted. That was a contract we had to do. Written inspection on that site. I have not heard of any excessive tree cutting, I will have to look in to it.

President Rattner: As long as it came to the specs. If we told them to cut down the trees, we cut down the trees. They are not going to cut down extra.

Mr. Buczynski: In the next phase, just so you know Steve. Olympus is also supposed to be there intermittently, not on a weekly basis. I think like once a week, once every two weeks something else comes down, but that was the original contract with the Town.

President Rattner: Well, I don't care as long as somebody is there.

Mr. Buczynski: I like to find out why we have problems, if we did in fact have the problems that Charlene is mentioning.

President Rattner: Watching the letters going back and forth with the bid specs which I will address in total separately, but they were talking about the quantities and now you are talking about the changing quantities. changing quantities. That I am very sensitive on because we learned through the sewer project because I believe the bidding law in New Jersey is that when you spend the quantities which the contractor needs; if it is plus or minus more than 15%, then the contractor is allowed to renegotiate the unit price.

Mr. Buczynski: 25%. It is not 15%. The DOT….I will have to look at that.

President Rattner: My concern with that, I believe Olympus Engineer said they did not want to be held responsible but there we can up with… We think Odyssey was a tough one. Obviously here where they have some basic rights. You know it can really really go. That is why we are paying the engineering firm and Olympus all that money to really figure out what is being done so the bid specs, are as close.

Mr. Buczynski: If it is unit price, it is not 15%. I know it is not 15%.

President Rattner: Well whatever, we have to make sure it's in there because you just said about the other soil that you thought would have to come in. We know with AIG/Baker they were not even close. We could probably build a ramp to the moon with the extra soil they found there so if we had a unit price on that would be millions of dollars. When I asked you about the moving of one field, did you say we are actually going to lose one soccer field with that movement?

Mr. Buczynski: No. We are not going to lose the soccer field, not at all. I think because of the cost before, one soccer field was taken out of this phase, just to make sure you are within the Budget you wanted for this phase of the project. Right now to my understanding it is within the Budget based on the numbers given provided by your engineering firms.

President Rattner: And then the last thing and this is directed towards the Administration and that is with the fact that the bid specs have gone out and I don't think anyone on the Council knew that they were going out. In fact I thought we had a sub-committee, which was Dave Scapicchio and Ron Heymann that was supposed to be involved with some of the meeting so at least we would have known what was going on. As far as I know they have not been invited to any lately.

Mr. Heymann: I have been to the meetings. But I knew that the specs were going to go out, because we had spoken about it. Whenever we were in a meeting we were trying to get there by a certain date to get those bid specks out.

President Rattner: I know that I brought this up a couple times. The Council would at last like to see the specs. At least for a few days before they have to go out so we can see what we are actually bidding out. Remember, we got the same promise when we bid the Municipal Building the first time, "you'll get it, you have time, you see the specs after" and before you knew, it was four days or five days before we had to make a decision, and then we found out what the bid specs were and the building was not even what we looked at. But I thought we were going to get that so I think we need better communication at least coming back to the
Council. I think the Council would have liked to know that the bid specs were in fact going out. I know there was original schedule that we were going to meet. That was in August. We were hoping for around August 27, 2001. It was a surprise to me. And then I got it back and forth. Sandy told me yea the specs probably did go out. The Mayor told me today the bids are not going out for another three weeks.

Mayor Licitra: I did not say that.

President Rattner: You did not say that tonight?

Mayor Licitra: I did not say three weeks.

President Rattner: Didn't you remember saying something? Maybe two weeks then?

Mayor Licitra: I said it did not go out.

Mr. Kaplan: If I may, the legal notice went out. The specifications were delivered to my office today. They are in my office now.

President Rattner: So the bid specs did not go out yet.

Mr. Buczynski: No. They went out. When I said they went out, they went out for advertisement. When they go for advertisement it goes out. It is out in the market. It went out to bid. They did go out Steve. When you put an ad in the paper, it is out to bid. The ad is in the paper.

President Rattner: Mayor, you did not say tonight that they did not go out yet.

Mayor Licitra: I said the specifications had not gone out yet.

Mr. Kaplan: The legal notice went out on Monday. The specifications were delivered to my office for distribution today.

Mr. Sohl: They will only be distributed to those that request a copy.

Mr. Kaplan: That is correct. They are available to Council Members if they so want to review them in my office now.

President Rattner: Anybody have any other comments or questions?

Mr. Guenther: How far over Budget are we?

Mr. Buczynski: I don't know. I have been told everything is within the Budget that has been set for the project.

Mr. Kaplan: We had a meeting today and we are still within the Budget that the Governing Body has established through this project. As you can see by the pink list on the right, that is what we are now out to bid on and that will supposedly fit within the Budget that you have established. We will not know obviously until the bids come in.

Mr. Guenther: But regarding the bedrock situation, that did not create any additional expended fees?

Mr. Buczynski: You know what you have. That has already been a change order. A change order was part of your first phase.

President Rattner: Bernie and everybody. I think what is happening and we said this right along, is that the bidding part is really unexpected. We know how much money is appropriated, and they kind of fit it in. That is why they have the options, and whether we could go plus or minus and even with what happened in New York, you know with a lot of contractors there. That could effect the bidding. We are hoping for the best. I mean we put the best estimates we could get in there and that is why I was concerned about the quantities, because
whatever it is, whether it is 15 percent, 20 percent or any other percentage is that they have to be tight because then we could get into a situation, where we think we know what it is going to cost, and then something else comes up.

Mr. Buczynski: It will be interesting to see what the prices come in at because you have a lot of work that could be done during the wintertime. Contractors are always looking for projects, when they need work. they could work in the wintertime so you might get some good prices based on that.

President Rattner: Okay, anybody else.

Mr. Kaplan: The other issue that we have to discuss during the regular portion of the meeting, is the continuation of Mr. Casey as a special projects coordinator, for this project and for the Trade Zone South inter connector roadway. Those are the two projects that his contract was extended through the month of September. As of next week, there will be no additional contract with Mr. Casey. We, at Administration still feel that we are at a critical juncture with this project, that we would be foolish at this point in time to take away his expertise and knowledge of the Project before the bids are received and reviewed. I think Gene will reflect on my comments.

Mr. Buczynski: My concern is two ways. AIG/Baker. If I could go back to the new job. Right now we see Bob in Town, handling all the purchasing of basically $3 million of material. He has handled all of the paperwork at this point, I think it would be best to keep even just to work the hours it needs to work on that portion, to make sure we get all the final numbers together, because he handled that completely in house, unless somebody else take over that responsibility, but right now he was doing it and we could probably have that job buttoned up including purchasing the items before November 15, 2001. Most of the items under the contract probably will be taken care of other than the final paving. I think you them to finish the continuity on that. Regarding your Turkey Brook Project. This is just my opinion. He was handling all the work coordination with your engineers down in North Carolina, now you're at the bid. Your done with the design, you are at the bid. There is a lot of coordination now during the bid process relative to addendums. When he sees that all of the direct contact with North Carolina. The bid is going to be awarded October 23, 2001. You might say now you are starting the construction phase of the project. It is a whole new phase. The construction, the estimates the payment estimates. That could be done through construction services, we have talked about before. But I really think from that as a minimum on the project for Turkey Brook, another 30 days would make a lot of sense to keep this project rolling ahead through the award of the bid phase. That is my opinion for what it is worth.

Mr. Heymann: I concur. The project is of such magnitude. Bob has been involved in it hands on, nobody else has been. We have other projects going on in the Municipality; he is not involved in those, he directs his full attention to this. I don't have any problem continuing to extend it either by 30 or 60 days until either there is a comfort zone or we are past the point where there is that need for him especially if it is only on an as need basis at this point based upon the hours he is working. To me it is just too big a project not to have someone who has been with it from the beginning continuing to work. I don't know what the Administration wants, 30 days. I think 30 is not enough. I also think that we extend it through September, and with the tragedy that occurred September 11, 2001, we all lost some time where things probably did not move as rapidly as we wanted them to. I would again suggest maybe a 60-day extension and maybe we could look at that again in 30 or 45 days. So that is what I would recommend and that is what I would support.

President Rattner: The Mayor last month asked us to extend it 30 days, and it was the same thing we hear now. Just because the bids are ready to go out right now. It is a matter of a couple days we want the continuity and I said okay for that because at first I was not really amenable but I said okay 30 days for another transition because of the way we thought we were moving. So we went along. I went along with that. I said I would support that. I have problems right now. I am not convinced to support any additional extensions. The AIG Baker is something new. I don't remember that coming up last month. If it is to get those types of quantities and those type of things involved, that especially I look at. Is it better that maybe Mark get involved a little bit. He is a PE. Other than just being a purchasing agent and buying things. Because I have been watching the memos going back and forth with some of the problems that you have been having with the keystone block walls. You know, you have concerns. It is more than just somebody to notice that something looks like it is moving.

Mr. Buczynski: Well that is not what Bob is doing though. Bob is the one purchasing materials. Not workmanship, just materials. I know. But materials, quality and the type of materials you need. I looked at that as purchasing, and the more backgrounds you have in those type of projects and the engineering of the projects you would be in a better position and that type of thing.

President Rattner: Anything that is something new because I did not hear AIG/Baker till we got the memo a couple days ago. Last month it was just for Turkey Brook. But with Turkey Brook you know to keep moving I gave the 30 days, we said that we would see some movement. This is what we need. Now it is starting to sound like a never-ending story. Maybe 30. Now it is maybe another 60. I said that I was not going to keep going with these extensions, the thirty days was going to be the one that I was considering. Also I am hearing that there are amendments going out to the specs before the specs even get in to a person. I guess we are going to give them to the potential bidders. Next week we are going to tell the potential bidders if I heard right that we are going to be giving some amendments some more detail or whatever. We are probably going to have more along the way. We can't open up the bids till everybody has enough time to evaluate what all the amendments are. So if we are going that speed, what other finds are we going to find. I just looking at it as a never-ending story, and I don't know really what we are going to gain. So at this point, I am leaning toward not approving the extension.

Mr. Heymann: If we don't bring Bob back, or continue Bob's position regarding that how are we going to manage this multi million dollar project. Especially in the critical stages it is at right now. Not only am I afraid we will lose time. We will lose the cohesiveness of running the project, I don't know what's the solution. If you don't want Bob, then who is going to do it. Who has the experience with this project? Who has the knowledge of this project? If your going to say Mark. How long is it going to take to get up to speed and where we are going to be. If we are going to come in on whatever the deadlines are trying to get the fields ready by July or August of next year. I don't see how you are going to do that if we don't keep Bob. Give be a better solution.

Mr. Scapicchio: Ron, I guess that triggers some questions that I have relative to Mark and his participation in this project with Bob. What has that been, if any? Mark would you feel taking on the responsibility of handling this project in the same capacity that Bob Casey has been?

Mark DiGennaro: To answer your first question I have not participated in the project other than some of the routine complaints that they have come out about because of the weather, and because of the project. To answer your second question. With my workload and what I think this Council and Administration has decided to create a position, Director of Public Works, I really don't think it would be a wise decision to put that in to my department, for two reasons. At this stage of the game, you definitely don't want to lose the continuity that you have. Also, I do not have a staff that would be able to take on this. This is definitely a full time effort. I could speak from my experience. I have worked on a consulting end, and I think if you pull out the nucleus of this project which in this discussion is Bob Casey, it is a recipe for disaster. If you could say that this project was not critical to be built within the next 12 months, then I would say you know what maybe we could figure it out, we get a learning curve, we could pick it up and go. You not only have a large project, but you have a time frame, to get it done in and there are other issues in the Department of Public Works; I haven't tackled one that I don't think does not date back to four, five six, or seven years ago. I would see that if you did rely on me to do that something would have to give, and considering your time constraints I think it would be the park.

Mr. Scapicchio: The next question is for the Mayor. If you are only asking for an extension of 30-60 days until the bidding process is completed, and then you are going to relieve Mr. Casey of his duties and his responsibilities, who have you put with him that will take this project over once we relieve him of his responsibilities.

Mr. Buczynski: The Mayor is pointing to me, so maybe I should answer that. The Mayor had asked us to put a proposal together way back when relative to providing inspection and observation and administration services which we submitted. I don't believe it has been awarded or discussed. We had a contract that was put together for the inspections of what is going on at Turkey Brook right now for that end. I think the Mayor's intension from my discussion with him was probably to have us handle that, especially with Mr. Casey not around. Nothing has been finalized at this point, so as of today, we don't have a contract to go into that next phase. We think that was going to be the intension with the approval of the Council.

Mr. Scapicchio: What level of participation would you see that being Gene. Do you have any idea?

Mr. Buczynski: It was in my proposal, I'll try to see if I could remember what my proposal said. The first proposal had an upset fee and we basically revised it a time and materials because of the uncertainty of the length of the contract and things of that nature. You have a contract with your designers, I have not seen the contract, but I know that called for certain types of inspections. I think they have one guy that comes up once a week and then there is another staff meeting every two weeks, but there is no everyday supervision on the site by your engineers mean that what was approved way back when. So your design engineers are not there on any type on regular review basis for construction. So somebody has to provide those services. I think we called for a possibly, I guess we averaged the construction limit based on what was the projected time of construction permits to Casey, which I am just throwing out maybe it was four to six months, and we did not project full time inspection, we averaged maybe four hours a day through a whole course of projects of certain times and installing pipe you'll need somebody more. There is other times where we won't need a person there full time.

Mayor Licitra: How many of these inspections have to be done if we gave them to anybody?

Mr. Buczynski: All of them have to be done. Somebody would have to do them. Casey would not have been doing them. You have to somehow provide some additional inspections.

President Rattner: I think we understand it and we all agree that we wanted your firm to be doing the inspection, but I don' think that was the question. The question I think asked more specifically is how is the transition working and was that in progress. You basically said no because no contract was ever signed with you. That is what the question was.

Mr. Buczynski: There is a contract that you approved for phase I inspections, and also for us to review, there is a separate price for us to review the plans, before they went out to bid. Someone from my office has been working with Bob and reviewing the plans, that is where he came up with the comment where we had the one meeting. We had some quality control comments, and also the comments right now. We initiated basically the comments about lump sum vs. unit prices, so yes we have had some continuity in the job. We have not had any direct involvement with your engineer down in North Carolina other than I think my associate went down for one trip to North Carolina to go over certain items to meet the staff there. But we have not been dealing directly with North Carolina, Bob Casey has.

Mr. Scapicchio: Thanks Gene. Just a few more comments. Paul, maybe this is a discussion that needs to be scheduled for a workshop, but I was under the impression that there was going to be a transition period where Mark was going to work side by side with Bob Casey and that at some point in time when the administration and the Council felt comfortable, Bob Casey would leave, Mark would then take over. What I am hearing tonight from Mark is that he has not been part of that project at all. With the workload that he has, he does not believe that he can handle that project, and if I am mis-speaking, speak up. We have an engineer in house, yet we are going to go out for the bulk of this inspection work to an outside firm. Again maybe it needs to be scheduled for a workshop, but I have been working under the assumption that there was going to be a transition period at some point in time, Mark was then going to take this project over and that is why when we first looked for a DPW director, you had proposed someone that had an engineering background and degree. I guess my last question is, now that we find out that Mr. Casey is working on the AIG/Baker, is the time that he is spending on that project being charged to that Escrow account?

Mr. Buczynski: I can answer that for you. Yes, yes it is. As a resolution, as part of the resolutions with AIG/Baker, they allowed a fee I think of $60.00 an hour towards the administration of that project and he was going to be the Administrator. I believe that time is being charged towards their account.

Mr. Kaplan: I will produce for you, the Proposal that Bob provided to you for the extension of his contract, and I believe in that proposal it does mention the Trade Zone South interconnecter road as part of his assignment.

Mr. Guenther: Quite frankly I found it a little bit disconcerning to hear Mark DiGennaro's remark. I sort of concur with Councilmen Scapicchio, and it was my distinct impression that… Lets face it. We have extended Bob Casey twice. This would be the third time. It was always because we needed an additional transition period. Maybe it was by mistake to understand this, but when we hired a Public Works Director the idea was to have him have some degree of involvement with the oversight if the Turkey Brook Project. That is not to say that's going to take up his entire time, but that there was going to be some involvement, and that is up to the administration to work out how they would do that. Call it Clerk in the Works, or whatever we want to call it on that project, but that was my impression. I could sympathize now with the fact with the events of September 11, 2001, there have been some delays and possibly there is a justification for extending Mr. Casey at least a 30-day period to get this process done on the bidding. But as I say, I am a little bit disconcerted that I don't see the Director of Public Works involved with this, being phased in to it, having more knowledge. I find for what his responsibilities are on paper to just be involved with handling complaints from residents to be…It just does
not make any sense. That is my feeling on it. I don't know how we will vote on this when it comes up for resolution right now. I am a little bit perplexed by this whole thing.

Mr. Kaplan: Know one ever said that all he is doing is handling complaints from residents. Mr. DiGennaro is overseeing the operation of Sanitation Division, the Engineering Division, the Road Division, and the Administrative Division of the Department of Public Works. It is quite a cumbersome job, it takes an awful lot of his time and effort, because he is also trying to the best of his ability and the short period of time that he has come on board to learn as much as he possibly can about the Budd Lake Sewer Project, and respond to residents problems with that dealing with EDU's and things like that. Plus the day to day complaints that we get in Mount Olive.

Mr. DiGennaro: I would just like to jump in on my own behalf because when I said I am handling complaints, I am handling complaints with regard to Turkey Brook. That was the question. What my involvement has been. I have sat in and participated in meetings, but I have not had an active role in planning and designing and engineering and contemplating and estimating a project, so in that regard my involvement has been zero and that's what my answer to Mr. Scapicchio was. As far as what Mr. Kaplan is saying is what I am doing on a daily basis, there is no question that I am involved in learning this system. I have had numerous conversations with Mr. Rattner on EDU's and water connection charges and many different things that still are perplexing. But you know, I just think that the project as a whole would suffer, it is not that I am partial to Bob Casey or to Gene Buczynski. I am looking from a standpoint that I believe you want the project to succeed, and in my experience in working in various different projects that changing gears and changing players, you could jeopardize the success of the project
Mr. DiGennaro( cont'd): was the replacement quarterback because everybody else went on strike and he was playing with the losers, but he made that team humm, and then the last day they broke the contract they brought the professional back in and he could not complete a pass. So I think that is what you are looking at, professionally, the Project has got a lot of merit and if that was my sole obligation and sole responsibility it would be a great challenge, there is no question about it. But I don't see that I could accomplish the goals that I think this Township hired me for, and successfully bring this project to close because your time constraints are so much and there is so much history here. I have yet to handle a problem that has not been created in this decade. I am trying my best to do that. Thank you.

Mrs. Miller: I am also very concerned that it appears that the Administration could justify why we have to extend Mr. Casey's term with us. I am concerned that he is our only contact with Olympus and going down to North Carolina. I am very concerned that we don't have someone who has been trained to over see the project because frankly I am getting tired of extending this persons contract with us. I was under the assumption the last time that we extended it, there would be someone in place to take over where he lest off. I do believe that Gene's firm is capable of following through on the Turkey Brook Park inspections and making sure that things are done properly and on time. I know I have had a personal experience with Mr. Casey where I very specifically wrote him instructions concerning the nest boxes that were in place, and that those nest boxes were inadvertently plowed down and moved into the fields with live nestlings in them, and I was very upset about that. I went out to inspect the fields with Mr. Kaplan and Mr. Casey. I did my very best to inform them there were active nests on the site and that they should not be tampered with until the nestlings had left the nest boxes and there were about ten of them that were just plowed into the field. After I had informed him. After he had acknowledged that I had made those requests and I just cannot deal with a person, I know this is a very simple request to most people, but somebody who had absolutely no concern over the loss of wildlife or the loss of trees, I have asked him several times how may trees were cut down? Where are our trees were going? I have never gotten answers to anything that I have asked him personally, or in writing and I am just not satisfied with his work. It would be very hard to extend his contract and if I did I would do it begrudgingly and only for 30 days. Because I understand that there are some things that they feel they have to tie up, I do not want to have to be put on the spot like this again.

President Rattner: Thank you.

Mr. Heymann: My only concern is that if you don't hire, or you continue to retain Bob Casey, Gene's first contract was for nothing that we are discussing here today, and we agreed that his first contract was about $33,000. For them now to come in on a time and material contract, it is going to be extremely expensive.
Because basically you need somebody up there and you need somebody to have communications and we all know, Gene has a lot of staff, but he does not just represent Mount Olive. He has other Municipalities and other jobs to do. I think you are looking at an exorbitant amount of money to do what Bob Casey is basically doing which is being a conduit of communication and conversation back and forth.

Mr. Buczynski: One of the things now is you are out to bid. You are going to be getting questions coming into the Town. They are not going to be calling North Carolina. They are going to be calling someone in town which is Bob Casey to get those answers. Far from your contact down in North Carolina. He is the only one that really has a steady contact. The person in my office Tom Alavasi, he went down once. He has discussed items with them. But really second hand because Bob was handling the show per say. Could my guy do it. Yea, I guess he could take it over. At the beginning it would be difficult. Again hours and money. I think Bob being here would just make things go easier than to try and reinvent the wheel to answer some questions. That's my concern. Could we still make it work? Yes. We could probably still make it work.

President Rattner: Before we go any further the Administrator came to me and asked if we have a workshop that is scheduled after this meeting, and he figures that we are going to be on this for a little, we still have the Public Portion and there is some items on the workshop that are going to take a certain amount of time he suggests, and I don't think considering the time it is a bad idea just putting off the entire workshop and put it on for next week. We don't have another Public Meeting, does anybody have a problem that we just delay the workshop until next week.

Mr. Spino: I am trying to make this as simple as possible for me. So I could simply understand it. We are saying we need Bob Casey. For how long? Are we going to be talking about this in another 60 days because if we are than lets just make it 120 days.

Mr. Buczynski: I don't see it is going to be 60 days. I think if you want to be conservative, to say 60 days. Right now, the contract is until the end of this month. You are planning to award the contract October 23, 2001. Once the contract is awarded, I think that would be the right time because now someone has to send out the right notice of award and all that. We do that all the time. We could take over at that point.

Mr. Spino: What about AIG/Baker?

Mr. Buczynski: I can't speak for Bob, but he is not working on it full time. Full time it would be more work than Turkey Brook.

Mr. Spino: Then let me make it simple. I am not 100% in favor of doing this. I thought the last time we did it would be enough. We are talking about millions of dollars, lets just put him on for 60 days and Gene is giving us his opinion at least for Turkey Brook Project that would be plenty of time and hopefully it will be for AIG Baker. If it isn't. Then that is something that is going to have to be handled in house.

Mr. Sohl: The AIG/Baker thing is new to me. I guess if that is being paid out of other people's dollars, I am not to much worried about that. If it is paid out of Mount Olive taxpayers dollars. I am very much worried about that. From a historical perspective I share the general recollection Dave and Bernie has is that we were looking at a transition period. Transition to me does not mean somebody leaves without passing the baton in that process. That does not to seem to have happened up to this point in time. The other thing I am hearing is that. Gene I don't get the flavor that even after this next 60 days that there is not necessarily a need, Mark kind of articulated it for a program manager, project manager whatever label you want to put on it. They were experts in that specific area out there that are hired on a contract-consulting basis. So sell me then on that ongoing need, and I will seriously consider it so that we aren't here 30-60 days from now saying well, we got the bids, we awarded the bids we got to keep that continuity going. I think the real question is if we need somebody like that. Are those of us up here satisfied with Bob Casey? I don't know if we should discuss this in executive session or not as a matter of personnel. I mean I am not. I can't cut to the chase anymore. There are reasons each of us has had as a matter of, just the interactions we have had. So that is where I stand right now. If it is necessary to get to this bid awarded, but I think at best I could go that far. I think the Administration has to seriously think about is there a need for a project manager? Somebody totally with the skills of project and program management. Not a former Administrator somewhere. That is not a reflection on Sandy or anybody else who holds a title of Administrator. There are very specific program and project management skilled people out there that know how to get a job done, and they are paid pretty well for it. So again. I am not opposed to that fact if we need it. As Mark points out he is pretty well engaged 100% of the time. I think the real issue is; who should that be?

Mr. Guenther: Bill Sohl stole my thunder. The initial point I wanted to make. I seem to hear from Mark's remarks that he was not even projecting Bob Casey out for two months; he was projecting it out even for a year until it gets completed. Maybe I misunderstood. That's my concern. Same as Bill articulated. That all of a sudden we are coming to two months down the road and we'll hear. Well we need a project manager like this. Quite frankly I don't think I feel that way, and, I think the Administration would be very well advised and be very frank with us now and tell us is Gene and his team, are they, is that going to be enough to carry on the project beyond the 60 days or not, and we are going to hold you to it.

Mr. Buczynski: If you want my opinion, I mean it is no different from where I do design, I do construction projects. We do design. We do construction. Yet somebody else does the design, we pick up the construction, and it is a construction phase of the project. When you go into construction, what do you have? You sign a contract with the guy, a contractor is up. Do you have an inspector to make sure he is doing the work? You have a project manager who is overseeing him. He is there, but he does not have to be on the job eight hours a day, answering any question that come up from the field, and he handles the administration of the monthly invoices or any change orders, or any concerns that come up, he would address those. Can we do that? Yes. That is part of our business. We can do that. I mean if you want somebody there eight hours a day, that's another story. If that is the case, I mean, however you want to do it, but we can manage the project. You know you are not going to have… A whole bunch of your design are going to be still addressed. You have to realize, you still have your designers that are still answering your design questions. Because they have a contract to assist the Town during the construction end. Maybe Sandy could give me a copy of the contract just so I know exactly what they are doing to. To my understanding, talking to Casey that they are here through the whole project, but they are not providing onsite inspections on a daily basis. We would be dealing like Bob is now, with Stuart Engineering, as a problem came up we would contact them, just like Bob has contacted them to get the design going, we contact him during construction to address questions that are in the bid documents.

Mr. Spino: I have heard enough to say that I vote we extend Bob Casey's contract for sixty days. People are telling you that they need you there for this. I am not disagreeing with what Bill said about whether he is the person for the job. I figure that might be better done in Closed Session. I think we are not going to change now. That's for sure. If you want Mark to get involved I think now is the time to say okay look, Bob Casey has like 60 days more make sure that you know what he is talking about, know what he is doing if it is possible. I don't know. Gene is going to handle part of it when it gets to the contract. I think we should do that now and get it over with.

President Rattner: I just want to make one quick correction. I think it is a correction. I'll ask the Attorney to either concur or correct me. But when we talk about Bob Casey. Bob Casey is not an employee. He is contracted to help as a firm. I don't think that is something that you would normally go into Closed Session for. So when you say that, I don't know if that is really appropriate. Mr. Spino put a motion to table and Mr. Heymann seconded that motion.

Mr. Scapicchio: I think we need a plan to move forward after your proposal, 60-days to Mr. Casey's firm, Earl?

Mr. Spino: Yes. 60 days.

Mr. Scapicchio: What's the plan?

Mr. Spino: The Administration should look at How to find out and give us information back, to find out whether he could do some of this, and then Gene is going to take over the construction once that starts.

President Rattner: Right now, I got a problem. It seems like we are moving just like the Federal Congress did with the airline bail out. Here's the money. Now we are not going with any limit. Basically if I read the memo from Mr. Kaplan, saying it is going to be just time and materials. Not 20 hours a week, or something that we have certain time…

Mr. Spino: I just said 60 days.

President Rattner: 60-days, how much is that going to cost you a week? How many hours a week? We have absolutely nothing. We're ready to go ahead and say unlimited for 60 days.

Mr. Spino: I would assume it would be similar to what he is doing now.

President Rattner: No, in fact Administration is requesting something different. Time and materials. I don't know what materials he has, but that is what the request is. There is no upper limit.

Mr. Scapicchio: Do we have that proposal in front of us?

President Rattner: I think that was something that was written on when you requested to discuss this.

Mr. Kaplan: When I spoke to him he felt that he was extended beyond the current agreement and it went beyond the design phase that his amount of time would be less than what he is currently putting in now. But I did not nail him down on specifically how many hours a week. He is here I would say on an average of two and a half days a week, right now. Again that is on the average. Sometimes he is here less. Sometimes he is here more. But I would say on the average, it is about two and a half days.

Mr. Scapicchio: I think we need to see a specific proposal for the extension.

Mr. Sohl: Either that or we just have it not to exceed the week.

President Rattner: But what is the right number? We are just picking a number out of the blue.

Mr. Sohl: Three days?

President Rattner: We are not really sure what he is doing. If the stuff gets mailed out, while you are waiting for somebody to respond, how much work is there, other than making a telephone call. Stuff like that. If he is not here and working some place else he is not going to answer right away anyway. I don't know what he is buying.

Mr. Kaplan: I think right now it is $600 a week is what it is. I don't recall specifically.

Mr. Guenther: Sandy, is it based on a certain number of hours maximum that he is to devote to the job in a week?

Mr. Kaplan: I really don't recall to be honest with you.

Mr. Scapicchio: Well, what are you asking for?

Mr. Kaplan: His proposal to me was that he would be extended for a period of time basically on a time and material basis, which means; if he came in and put in two hours a day, that is what we would pay him for. When I questioned him on how much he would have to put in, he said to me that he did not think he would have to put in more than a couple of hours a day on these two particular projects.

Mr. Sohl: I want to divorce the AIG/Baker thing from this discussion. I mean that is being handled, and I don't care if you hire him for AIG/Baker, if that is being paid out of Escrow.

Mr. Kaplan: That is being paid out of escrow.

Mr. Sohl: That is a whole different story.

Mr. Kaplan: Just for Turkey Brook.

Mr. Sohl: Just for Turkey Brook.

Mr. Spino: If we are extending his contract, what is his contract? Why aren't we just extending that? What are the terms now? Extend whatever those terms are.

President Rattner: He has been the Acting Public Works Director. He had much more responsibility.

Mr. Kaplan: No. The last proposal that you extended through the month of September was for specifically just Turkey Brook and AIG/Baker interconnecter roadway. You are paying nothing for the AIG/ Baker because you are right. It was taken specifically out of the Escrow account. It was just Turkey Brook. I just don't recall the exact amount. It is either $400 or $600 a week. I am not sure.

Mayor Licitra: You have your problems with Bob Casey, that's fine. But if you question his hours, you don't know what is going on down here.

President Rattner: Mayor, nobody is questioning the hours. I was asking what are we going to pay for going forward?

Mayor Licitra: I am telling you that if Bob signs on for five hours, he is gonna give you until he gets the job done. All right. I have known that for the last year and a half. Bob doesn't stop until his job is done. Whatever it may be. If we sign him for five hours, ten hours a week. Whatever it is. If you know his work ethic and you know what he does, you would know that. I mean he gives us more time than what he charges us for. He is in here on weekends. He is in here during the week. Whatever it is, extend it. I am telling you. I you give him 10 or whatever Sandy says, 10 or 15 you are going to 20 or 30 hours of work out of the man. He is going to finish this and do it to the best of his ability, which so far I am very happy with.

Mr. Kaplan: Can we vote on this?

Mr. Scapicchio: Not until we see a proposal in front of us.

Mr. Heymann: Well you can vote no.

Mr. Guenther: What do we vote no on?

Mr. Heymann: Why don't we set a certain amount of hours. Or what Earl suggests is the continuation of his previous…

Mr. Guenther: But we don't know what that says.

Mayor Licitra: Sandy is going to get that now.

Mr. Kaplan: We found the original Resolution for September.

President Rattner: The weekly fee is $600 a week.

Mr. Kaplan: And that does also state in here for the International Trade Zone South connector road.

President Rattner: So he gets paid total of $600, and that is what he gets paid regardless of where it is coming from.

Mr. Kaplan: Any work he does for ITC gets charged to the Escrow.

President Rattner: Yes, but it says for all his project management services, he is getting a weekly fee of $600, not $600 plus, this says $600 per week. Not $600 plus AIG/Baker. If we did, we paid him more than what this contract says.

Mrs. Miller: And he is presently working two and a half days per week?.

Mr. Spino: We are not too sure.

Mrs. Miller: And we are paying him $600 a week?

President Rattner: That is equivalent to about 10 hours. $60, $65 an hour. That part there is nothing wrong with. The hours and that type of thing is not what the subject is. But that says he gets paid $600.00 a week. Jersey Management, $600 dollars a week for AIG/Baker, plus Turkey Brook. That is very plain in there. Earl.

Mr. Spino made motion to extend this contract as it is in this resolution and to include a clause if we have to that the AIG/Baker portion of his contract is paid through the Escrow fund and Mr. Heymann seconded that motion.

President Rattner: Anybody from the Public like to comment?

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: I thought we learned our lesson on projects in Mount Olive. I though after we completed the sewer project, and we spent all our money for the recourse. It was agreed to by everybody that any major projects in this Town would be overseen by and individual who would be held accountable for the completion of that project. How we could be debating here tonight whether or not to continue a person who's capacity to date we must be satisfied with, or we would have terminated him all ready, and debating whether or not we should continue him through the completion of at least the bid process and the contract award is beyond me. We are talking about millions of dollars here. We know the history of what happens in this Town when we don't do things right. We did this building right. We set up a committee with four individuals. Two from Government, and two citizens who's charge it was to make sure this building got done. This is one of the few things in town that got done the way it should have been. Sure there were some problems, but it got done. Even after this project is awarded and should you decide to remove Mr. Casey from the project at that point in time, I don't see how you could continue to move a project forward like this, on schedule on cost without as Mr. Sohl said, and it is too bad he had to leave right now, without a project manager of some, sort who is in charge of this project, and who's pay whether it be a Township employee or whether it be Genes firm, that pay is tied to performance. If goals are not met, cost objectives are not met, the compensation for that person or firm is reduced, and if it is brought in under cost, ahead of schedule; the compensation would be added to. Lets look at what has gone on in the past and we should have learned some lessons. Again, I am not speaking in personalities, but if you are going to spend this kind of money, you need to spend a few bucks to make sure you have the continuity, and that you continue with this project in an orderly fashion. Thank you.

President Rattner: Anybody else from the Public? Close the Public Session. Mr. Heymann has already voted. Mr. Guenther I believe voted.

Lisa Lashway: Are we going to wait for Mr. Sohl?

President Rattner: Yes.

ROLL CALL: Passed by the majority with the exception of Mrs. Miller and Mr. Rattner who both voted no.


Library Board Liaison Report - none

Recreation Report - none

Board of Health Report - none

Planning Board Report - Mr. Spino stated that there were two small warehouse office buildings approved for Gold Mine Road. They back up to two of the lots. The third lot is not being developed yet. They back up into the quarry section. We had a problem with that quarry and we'll slow it down. One of the lots, the developer is going to level off and shape that quarry face so that it is safer. Level out, take out the stone that has already been quarried, and clean up the area as part as his approval.
President Rattner: Thank you Mr. Spino. Mrs. Miller.
Open Space Committee Report - Mrs. Miller stated that she was not able to attend the meeting, but I did get a call from the Open Space Committee. They had the people out from the County and I am not sure whether it is the State or not but the County to do the site review of Charters and Silver Spring.

President Rattner: Mr. Guenther attended.

Mrs. Miller:Okay we did have a Council person that attended. It was a hayride, it was one that I would have very much liked to have gone to but I was not able to. Last year they thought that we really out did it because we took them up to the top of the firetower for the Crown Towers Site and they were very impressed with this. So I am curious to see how the hayride went.

President Rattner: I served on that for two years, one thing is that they are always impressed with the presentation not just the hayride, but the preparedness and how it is presented.

Legislative Committee Report - none

Master Plan Report - Mr. Scapicchio states nothing other than that the staff has been working and we have a scheduled meeting for October 10, 2001 over in the planning department.

Pride Committee Report - Mr. Guenther stated that he briefly made a presentation to the Mount Olive Chamber of Commerce on the signage coming in to Town. "We already have one taker, and we will continue to work on that, getting the signs sponsored by businesses in town. I think we should be successful, and will keep working on that."


President Rattner: Would anybody from the Public like to comment on anything?

Thea Dunkle, Mt. Olive Township Historical Society: When I came and talked to the Council and the Mayor in March about the Seward Mansion, We had agreed that some of the concerns were that the building was unsafe and there was a need if we saved the building to put the fence around. I was just wondering what the status was of getting that fence put around the structure.

Mr. Kaplan: We are in the process now of getting quotes for that.

President Rattner: When do you expect to find somebody and have the fence up? I guess that is really what the question is. If you had to guess.

Mr. Kaplan: I would think that we'll have the fence going up within the next week. I gave Eric direction to go ahead, get quotes and to do it. He is getting the quotes, but I can't say to you at this point in time per sey, I will get you a memo tomorrow. But I did give him direction to go ahead and do the fence.

Ms. Dunkle: Will there be an opening to the fence?

Mr. Kaplan: I would assume that we're going to put a gate so there can still be access.

Mrs. Dunkle: The Historical Society is still in the process of getting a nice sign with some historic information to put by the mansion so that when people come in, they will be able to see it. I also wanted to let the Mayor and Town Council know that the two markers through the Morris County Heritage Commission are completed. The Morris County Road Department is coming out on Thursday to have David Mitros point out where the two markers will be placed, and they have told me they will inform me when the two markers will be going up for Bartleyville in Mount Olive. So those I think will be a much added thing for the Community. We will then be on the registers for Morris County and all their literature and have two more Historical Districts. Also we just got our sample blanket of our newest fundraiser, and Linda and I would like to show it to you. We worked very hard on this. We just thought you guys would like to see it. The new Mount Olive Historical Blanket. We just ordered two hundred of them today, and they will be in a blue and green, and this is the cranberry rose, and we will be selling them for $50.00, and all the proceeds will go to the Historical Society. I was wondering if maybe we could display one here in the Municipal Building. I hope you are proud of it. We worked several months on it. We also designed the historical brochure to go along with the blanket so that everybody knows what the sites are. The Historical Society, Pride Committee and the Parade Committee worked hard on getting the flag put up along the parade route and several people donated and we thank you for that. I got a call I was home from the hospital a couple days after my surgery, and I went and opened up and we got the flags back out. My only concern is if the flags are flown much longer, by next Memorial Day I don't know how long we are going to keep them up, I am sure people want to keep seeing them up with everything gone on. I don't know how well those flags are going to hold and we might need some replacements for next year. So we were also thinking of maybe getting some banners across the bottom of the Mount Olive Township, like the half round buntings. So we were thinking about that. That is what my concern was with the flags getting pretty shoddy if we keep them up to much longer, because we were only planning to keep them up a few months. With the wind there right by the lake. So, okay, thank you.

President Rattner: Would anybody else from the public like to address the Council? Seeing none I will close the Public Session.


Mr. Guenther: Yes. I have a few things. Regarding Odyssey, I just want to acknowledge that Mr. Bonte had a good point. It is our treatment of these things in the future. My suggestion would be that we should not leave this kind of thing with this major equipment in the hands of our well, I think they are a fairly professional rescue squad and fire department members. On the other hand I don't think they have the complete expertise that's needed to value it. I think when we look at something like this in the future, we should hire a consultant that Mr. Guenther(cont'd): can put the bid specs back together so that we could get a disinterested party that's going out and putting the bid together to bid for a new truck, or a major piece of equipment. Maybe we can even put a limit above a certain dollar amount so that we won't get nickeled and dimed to death. But I think it is important enough because we seem to have had a problem here in that the Squad itself did not know what they were really evaluating when they received the equipment. That would be my suggestion. I wanted to take a moment to thank the Mayor for something he organized last Saturday for the Veteran's in Town. It was a very informative session put on by the Veteran's Administration on benefits that are available to Veterans'. The first time I ever availed myself to that, and it was very informative to me to find out what is available. There were a lot of other appreciative members there and I know in your absence Mayor, they thank you.

Mayor Licitra: Was Frank Ruggiero there?

Mr. Guenther: Frank was there. He represented you. But the other people were very thankful and I think that was something very positive for the people that came. Maybe it could be done again at some point in time. With these things, a lot of times you do not get everybody to attend. I just wanted to, last remark regarding again Mr. Bonte 's comments on the Clerk of the Works or whatever we want to call him. I voted reluctantly for it. I don't believe that the position should be made permanent. It was and I think two members on the Council supported me. I still contend, it was our understanding when the Public Works Director was and I believe we posed that question at the time the project started. Would we need a Clerk of the Works based on our bad experiences in the past. With the sewer project, etc. I would like to go back to some of the minutes of the meeting I would almost be willing to bet that it was in there that a new Public Works Director would be on Board, and that we could handle that internally.

President Rattner: Thank you Mr. Guenther. Mr. Sohl.

Mr. Sohl: It has just been some time since we had a meeting, and I am sure I echo the thoughts of everybody here in terms of the tragedy that has befallen us as a nation. The attack on the World Trade Center, kind of puts into perspective our lives, and sometimes what we worry about even as we try to do the business of government locally. Just a comment.

President Rattner: Thank you Mr. Sohl. Mr. Spino?

Mr. Spino: None.

Mr. Scapicchio: None

President Rattner: The only thing I am going to ask and will direct this toward the Administration is we're coming near the end of the year. Pretty soon we will be back in the Budget season again. When we went to the Budget last year there were certain Departments that asked and they said they wanted to tell us what they do and why. How they thought they could be better. One specifically was the Police Department. We also know we have an Ordinance in our Water and Sewer that was supposed to get an annual report by November 1, so we can see what the rates have to be. How we did this past year. So we have plenty of time without doing it behind the eight ball and always playing catch-up. So I would ask that the administration give that some thought, just to have. We'll give a list. If there are certain departments that Council Members would like to hear on. So I want to separate it from the Buget. That we could have a little presentation saying what they have don this year, what they have improved, what are they looking for. Looking forward. I think this will give us a better idea of what the departments are actually doing, what their priorities are and as I said, separate it from when they are actually looking for money, which is probably after three months of you going over your Budget trying to balance it properly and then you know they come in thinking this is the last chance or something to that effect. I think that would be the most practical way of looking at it. Lets talk about departments. What they are doing. What they see the needs are. I'll leave that up to the Administration, how they want to format that. Just to give us an understanding, and then we could separate those parts when the Budget comes, January or February. Does anybody have any comments on that? You do remember that we did promise a couple of the departments that we would go over their department and how they have been doing. So, I'll talk to Sandy about that and see what we could put together. We'll spread it out over a couple of workshops. The only one that is important there so we meet the requirements to the Ordinance on the water and sewer review. I have nothing else, I will take a motion to Adjourn.

Motion made for adjournment. All in Favor, none Opposed. The Meeting was adjourned at 10:30 PM.

Steven W. Rattner
Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on December 18, 2001.

Mount Olive Township Clerk



President Rattner opened the Public Hearing on Ord. # 2001

President Rattner closed the Public Hearing on Ord. # 2001

Mr. moved for Adoption and Final Passage on Ord. # 2001 and Mr. Seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Rattner declared Ord. # 2001 as Passed on Second Reading.


Mr. Moved that Ord. # 2001 be introduced by title and passed on First Reading and that it be scheduled for Adoption after a Public Hearing on 2001 at 7:30pm. Mr. Seconded the Motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

Mr. moved for approval of the Resolution and Mr. Seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

Motion made for adjournment. All in Favor, none Opposed. The Meeting was adjourned at

Steven W. Rattner
Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on

Mount Olive Township Clerk




Mailing Address:
Mount Olive Township
Post Office Box 450
Budd Lake, NJ 07828

Physical Address:
Mount Olive Township
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road
Budd Lake, N.J. 07828

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