The Public Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to order at 7:12 p.m. by Council President Labow. 

Mrs. Lashway:  According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been given to the Daily Record. Notice has been posted in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders Drakestown Road, Mount Olive Township, New Jersey and notices were sent to those requesting the same.


Present:          Mr. Ferrante, Mr. Nicastro, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Roman, Mr. Staszak and Mrs. Labow

Absent:           Mr. Mania

Also Present:  Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk; Fred Semrau, Township Attorney; Sean Canning, Business Administrator; Sherry Maniscalco, CFO
President Labow:  For the public meeting, I’d like to welcome Mr. Brandon Shields, Troop 156 out of Flanders working on his Citizenship in the Community badge.  Mr. Mania has been excused from the meeting this evening.  Next on the Agenda, we do have a presentation from Mount Olive Lion’s…Sean, did they do that at the tree lighting ceremony instead of here?  Yes?

Mr. Canning:  Yes. 

President Labow:  They are saying yes, so we are not going to have that.  I would like to say the Leo’s, which is the high school group for the Lion’s Club had a wonderful event on Saturday at Motion Kia and it’s really nice to see all of our students and younger population of our community getting involved in having events and actually helping a lot of our businesses in town which is a beautiful thing.  We just had Phyllis and Quentin arrive.  We moved the discussion to the meeting instead of the workshop for you to be here.  We are going to have that in a few minutes because we are going to have our NJDEP Green Acres Program Public Hearing.  Mr. Buczynski is going to give us some information on it and then we will have some public discussion.

NJDEP Green Acres Program Public Hearing

Mr. Buczynski:  Good evening.  This hearing is part of a Green Acres Program Application for a minor diversion of parkland owned by Mount Olive, a portion of Flanders Park.  It’s subject to DEP Commissioner and the State House Commission approval.  The project that it relates to is Marveland Farms, 221 lot, age restricted development at the corner of Pleasant Hill Road and Bartley Flanders Road, Ironia Road and Main Road intersection.  As part of that project there is a widening of the intersection and traffic signalization.  As part of that, there is a small stretch of right of way that is required and some drainage easements required that are on the Flanders Park property, which is part of the ROSI.  When you encroach on that property, you have to go with Green Acres to get a diversion.  It’s basically one tenth of an acre.  We are talking about a strip of land, I’m going to say in laymen’s terms, just off the edge of the roadway pretty much on Pleasant Hill Road.  What this application contends is, it’s one acre of property from Flanders Park, which is Block 6000, Lot 12 for additional right of way and drainage easements for the construction of the improvement at that intersection.  That’s going to be replaced with approximately 13 acres to be dedicated from the development’s property for public recreation and conservation purposes.  It’s on Block 6000, Lot 5, adjacent to the southern boundary of Flanders Park near Rosewood ditch.  It’s kind of like north from Rosewood Ditch area.  It’s subject to DEP Commissioner and State House Commission approval and the final documents are presently still under State review and subject to their approval.  We have been going through months of discussions back and forth, Mazur Consultants are handling the actual application and we are going back and forth with the State for items that they need and it needs to have an appraisal done and so forth.  All of those documents, the final document is not completed yet.  There is still some review being done by the DEP.  The hearing, as probably you noticed, signage was installed on the sight for notification of tonight’s meeting.  Everything is pretty much in order at this point.  I guess we should open it to the public if there is any public here for questioning.  If they want any more details…

President Labow:  Very good.

Mr. Buczynski:  …showing the location of the diversion, we have maps here if necessary.



President Labow:  First I am going to ask Council if they have any questions.  Seeing none.  I’d like to open this portion of the meeting to the public.  Anybody from the public have any questions?  Yes, sir.  Would you please come to the podium and we’ll need your name and address for the record.

Brian Naef, 52 Crenshaw Drive, Flanders.  Are there any other improvements other than the turning lane, any signaling or…

Mr. Buczynski:  There is a traffic signalization.  It is going to be fully signalized.

Brian Naef:  There will be a traffic light there?

Mr. Buczynski:  Yes.

Brian Naef:  That was it.  Thank you.

President Labow:  Anyone else from the public have any questions?  Council?  Thank you.  I close this portion to the public and…

Mr. Buczynski:  Just one thing, sir, excuse me, if you don’t mind, could you just sign in with your name and address for the record.  It will be part of the public hearing. 

President Labow:  When is this work going to begin?

Mr. Buczynski:  The actual project?

President Labow:  Well, yes.  For that intersection.

Mr. Buczynski:  The project is going to probably start hopefully in the spring some time.  As far as when that intersection is scheduled, I don’t know at this point.

President Labow:  At some point when they get to it.

Mr. Staszak:  That’s part of phase two, right Gene?

Mr. Buczynski:  Yes, it is.

President Labow:  Excellent. 

Mr. Buczynski:  I guess that’s it.

President Labow:  Everybody satisfied?  Good.  Thank you very much.

Mr. Buczynski:  Thank you.

President Labow:  Mr. Buczynski, do you want to stay right there and we will go into the …

Mr. Buczynski:  I’ll stay no problem.

President Labow:  Thank you.

Mr. Canning:  I see you trying to leave.

President Labow:  Do you want to come up on the dais here and sit?  Is it more comfortable?

Mr. Buczynski:  No, I’m good.

President Labow:  Okay.  Great, thank you.  We are…like I said, we are deviating from the schedule a little bit and we’re going to have the discussion on the Park Place Sewer Project.  Sean, do you want to do an introduction for this?

Mr. Canning:  Sure.  Thank you, Madam President.  As Council will recall, this issue has been before this body several times over the last year and prior to that.  Something had come out of the survey or the vote that was commissioned by Council last year.  While it was overwhelmingly turned down on virtually the entire area,

the lone anomaly was Park Place, which was about 95 percent in favor of the sewers.  Mayor Greenbaum had directed both Gene and me to meet with the residents who on that strip there had expressed such overwhelming sentiment in favor of this project.  We had met through the spring as well as again in September and the last plan I had given to Council and what we had said we would do was to bring an engineer’s proposal before this body late in the year, with the option of either funding it from this current year budget, which I can report to you today, we can’t do it.  It is not going to be done in 2013.  As you can see before you, we had to transfer funds just to make sure we have the roads salted and plowed this year.  Currently, until Council tells us otherwise, we have before you an engineer’s proposal and I’ll go through that in a second, but currently we have that in the 2014 budget.  If Council tells us otherwise, it will be removed and I imagine it will be part of the budget hearing process.  What came out of our meetings and asking Gene for his expertise in the matter and the Mayor’s direction was to come up with a proposal from the engineer as to what would have to be entailed to be submitted for a NJEIT Grant, a New Jersey Environmental Infrastructure Trust Grant.  Now, NJEIT provides either low cost loans or grants, depending on how flushed they are with funds.  In past, they have given 50 percent grants and then another 25 percent low interest loans and 25 percent taken up by the municipality.  It does vary, but the intent is to, if Council approves, to approach the NJEIT in October 2014.  It’s a very lengthy process, it’s a lengthy grant and they generally give you some indication if they are going to approve it by March, the following spring.  We are still looking at about a year and two to three months away.  At that point it would trigger bidding documents if the process was to move forward, but retracting to Mr. Buczynski’s estimate and his envision and I’ll ask him to come up in a second.  His proposal is broken down into five parts that would have to be borne by the Township prior to an application.  The first would be surveying services, geo technical engineering, permitting, preliminary and final plans, this is the real nuts and bolts as to what the costs would be if we were to move forward on this project and what kind of funding we’d be seeking from NJEIT and the EIT application itself, which is $20,000.00.  The total cost that is presented before Council today and anticipated to be before you in the 2014 budget is $136,000.00.  Subsequent to any NJEIT approval, any other engineering and construction costs and observation would be borne by the grant process itself.  The anticipation is for about another $69,000.00 or $70,000.00.  Gene, do you want to come up and speak as to how you envision this…  

Mr. Buczynski:  …tonight, but that’s no problem.

Mr. Canning:  You’re good at this stuff.

Mr. Buczynski:  I’m good at this stuff.  The thing is with the grant applications, there are a lot of documents that have to be provided to the State.  It is presented to them with the application because what happens with NJEIT applications, all the design is done upfront.  That’s where the costs are at the beginning.  Once you get approval for that, it’s called planning and design phase.  Then after that, once you get the award, then it is basically the construction phase, its inspection contract and things of that nature.  Everything has to be pretty much up front and done as you get ready to submit your application to the State.  You like to get the application in and then submit the design, but that’s not how it works, you have to get everything in together. 

Mr. Canning:  Just to follow up before we get to the public and if Council has questions, the discussions with the residents of Park Place, obviously they are very much in favor of this process.  The question before Council and part of the internal discussions is what Council does when this line, it’s a low pressure system, I believe we had…

Mr. Buczynski:  Yes, that is what we had talked about.

Mr. Canning:  …said was the cheapest alternative.  Going down Main Street to the interconnect at Flanders Bartley Road, those residents along Main Street while initially had indicated that, in that portion there, that they were against this. 

President Labow:  Some.  Some of them.

Mr. Canning:  Some, yes.  I don’t have the numbers here so I can’t give you verbatim and in the interest of fairness to us, some were for and some were against.  What does Council do at that point?  The Ordinance says you have to connect.  Our position in speaking with the Mayor is that if Council is to go to that point, then some serious consideration should be given to this thing, yes, you have to connect on this line.  The only scope of this work as spoken about was Park Place, to Main, down to Flanders Bartley.  No expansion based upon the wastewater management plan, which once you get over tracks, we can’t do anyhow.     

Mr. Buczynski:  Yes.  You are on the planning area right now.


Mr. Canning:  Once we get in there, we can’t do anyhow.  This scope based upon that prior survey is just seeking to give relief of residents on Park Place. 

Mr. Buczynski:  Just one other issue, Sean.  Regarding St. Elizabeth’s, we had discussed it in our meetings.  Their line’s a lengthy line to get to serve the actual property, so what we are going to do so costs don’t get exorbitant just because of the St. Elizabeth connection, we are providing them a connection on the main going into their site.  Then they have to connect to that point.  Basically, providing the service connection but they would have to fund to getting to that point.  There’s two crossings on their property, it gets involved as far as the cost goes, unfortunately.

President Labow:  Mr. Roman.

Mr. Roman:  What’s going to be the cost to the users on Park Place?  What kind of rates and what’s it doing for the rest of the rates?

Mr. Buczynski:  That’s beyond me.

Mr. Canning:  We haven’t even gotten to that analogy…analysis yet.  Right now, the question that was put before the Mayor and myself was what would the engineering cost if we were to do a NJEIT grant; how much would it cost the town to do that.  The full engineering work and do we go ahead October 2014 and apply for that grant.

Mr. Buczynski:  I think it is also subject to what type of funding we’re going to get from them too, from the State.  What percentage.

Mr. Roman:  It sounds like there is no guarantee on getting the grant.

Mr. Canning:  NJEIT…if this was prior to Hurricane Sandy, I would say it is almost guaranteed because they were flushed with cash.  In post Hurricane Sandy, it’s certainly being used in other areas of New Jersey, especially down the shore, there were some serious gas main disruptions.  It is more competitive then it was a year ago.  I can’t say what it would be in October 2014. 

Mr. Buczynski:  That’s the only thing on that is you probably just hit it Alex, is you have to put these costs up to get to that point and if they don’t give you the grant, are you going still going to fund it by other means or are you not going to fund it.  That is the question.

Mr. Roman:  Yes.  I for one think we should definitely proceed, as there is no ground on whether this is a project that we want to not only just figure out whether what the cost would be, but if we’re going to go full force with the project.

Mr. Canning:  That’s the million dollar question sort to speak, not putting a price tag on it, we don’t know the full construction cost until the plans are done, correct.  We can have a ball park estimate, but…

Mr. Buczynski:  I think it is fairly accurate, I think overall the project is going to be $800,000.00 to $1,000,000.00, I believe at the end.  That’s what it is projected to be.

Mr. Perkins:  It will be a million without a doubt.

President Labow:  Mr. Staszak.

Mr. Staszak:  Out of this $136,000.00, Gene or Sean, if we get the grant, is any part of this $136,000.00 reimbursed to us or is it…?

Mr. Buczynski:  It’s not going to be reimbursed, it is all part of the funding.

Mr. Staszak:  It’ll be put back to us.

Mr. Buczynski:  Yes.

Mr. Staszak:  From the grant of the loan or whatever we get.

Mr. Buczynski:  Right.


Mr. Staszak:  Sean, refresh my recollection, how many properties are we talking about, approximately?

Mr. Roman:  Ten.

Mr. Perkins:  Fifteen.

Mr. Canning:  Twenty five, thereabout.

Mr. Buczynski:  I thought it was twenty eight, yes twenty eight, I think, I could be wrong.

President Labow:  Yes, it was close to thirty.

Mr. Roman:  How does this bode as in any future expansions in sewers in there?  Is that something that would, let’s say later on we…

Mr. Buczynski:  If you want to do other areas.

Mr. Roman:  Yes.  If we want to do other areas, if we do it piecemeal, I’m assuming that’s going to cost us more in the long run had we taken on the full project as previously.

Mr. Buczynski:  Still, it would just be expanding the system, I mean, if you did a larger project all at once, you would probably get some cheaper costs.  You’re doing smaller projects, so the unit price from contractors are going to be a little bit higher, when you do a smaller section of the project.  I think what happens, you are limited here because of the preservation area where we really can’t get into that preservation area.  That goes back to the question we had way back when about the failed septic systems in the area and we have to have some good documentation to the State to be able to even have them consider extending the lines in the preservation area.  Things will be highly unlikely in the future.

President Labow:  The other part of that, Gene, I’m over here, hello.  I sound like I’m back there.  I’m a ventriloquist.  Alex, the other part of this equation is that last year in April, the State went and turned around and changed the regulations if you have a cesspool, whether it is operating or not, you pass title, you have to put a septic in or you have to hook up to the sewers if available.  Sean did an evaluation for me, with Frank Wilpert, Sr. in Old Flanders and at that time we found out that 15 of those properties in Old Flanders had cesspools, 12 were unknown what they had, several have been kind limping along with the septic systems that they have, hoping and praying that they are going to get sewers because most of the properties, especially along Park do not have enough property to put a new septic in and it is so wet on the section, especially where Phyllis Shelton’s area is, Mack Johnson’s office.  Because of the water behind there, thankfully, Phyllis Shelton had actually, and Quentin, built a swale years ago to try to keep a lot of the water from flooding the properties, so she lost a tremendous amount of her property at her own expense.  That area, in all likelihood would not even perk, therefore, what they call an above ground septic system will have to be put in, like a mountain kind of thing.  They’re a lot more expensive than a regular septic.  In reality, this project along that section is helping to preserve those properties and help a situation the State kind of created by mandating that cesspools, if you pass title, has to be a septic and most of…I think the majority of those properties, they can’t even put in a septic without a tremendous cost.  The above ground systems generally run, Mike’s branch in real estate and we’ve had to get estimates, most of those are going to be talking about $35,000.00 to $40,000.00, where generally, a regular septic, the underground type if the property perks, is about $20,000.00 to $25,000.00 depending on availability of space and the type of system they put in.  That’s what really has kind of …why we are really trying to move forward with this one section because they have actually become a distressed area due to the NJDEP passing this new regulation.  Is that pretty accurate Fred?  That’s why it is extremely important.  Sure, I’m all for buying things in bulk and saving a little bit of money, but when we did this survey, with a lot of misinformation that went through Main Street and Patriots Way, the people decided to vote no and of course the people who really, really needed it the most voted yes.  That’s why we decided to move forward with this and we really can’t get from step A to step B without this first process of doing the evaluation.  We can’t apply for grants without getting the plans.  We are in like a catch 22 there.  Mr. Nicastro.

Mr. Nicastro:  I think you answered most of the questions, but I guess that is the big question.  Basically, we are going to spend the $136,000.00 to see if we get it and if we don’t are we committed to spend the other $850,000.00 to do it.

President Labow:  No. 

Mr. Nicastro:  I’m saying that’s what we’ve got to look at.  It’s an option, you have to spend $136,000.00, if they say no…

Mr. Buczynski:  To put on a shelf.

Mr. Nicastro:  Yes and it just sits there and you spent the $136,000.00 or are we going to say either way, that’s going to be the big question, which way because…

President Labow:  I think even spending this money to really have any other options, if there any other kinds of grants or fundings.  You kind of have to have a plan anyway.  Everybody wants a plan, you can’t just apply for something without a plan in place.  Is that correct, Gene?

Mr. Buczynski:  Yes.  I think other than NJEIT, I don’t think there is going to be any opportunities at this point to get grant money.

President Labow:  No. 

Mr. Canning:  At this point, the federal government…

Mr. Buczynski:  I think we kind of looked at that.

Mr. Roman:  To be perfectly frank, I’m one that we shouldn’t proceed to even think about a project if all we’re considering is whether we get grant money.  If it’s not in our budget and it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing with our own money and we pay for it.  To me, the grant issue that’s all fine and dandy, but I think we should at least consider whether it is a project that we’re going not only pay the money to look at the plan, but then once the plan is done, we go forward.

Mr. Buczynski:  Go private.

Mr. Roman:  It’s a go.  The one thing that leans me towards doing this project is the 95 percent positive response from those residents on Park Place.

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Roman:  They weren’t as vocal as the ones that were against it the last time they were here, but…

President Labow:  The other thing too, Alex is St. E’s that is in desperate need of sewers.  They can’t do some of the projects that they want, to improve the church area and to put in their school without having sewers.  There are a lot of reasons why I think even though $136,000.00 is a lot of money, but on the other hand, this is the only way that we can move forward and hopefully get the grant money, but I will support this project regardless of if we get the grant request.  I know Sean and Gene are very aggressive on following through on these and getting the grant money.  I think it is something we really need to do.  I think Mr. Staszak had a question.

Mr. Staszak:  Sherry, just historically, the Budd Lake sewer project, what portion was paid for by the residents and what picked up by the rest of the taxpayers?

Mrs. Maniscalco:  I’d have to go back and look because Budd Lake was actually before my time believe it or not.

Mrs. Lashway:  70 percent.

President Labow:  70 percent.

Mr. Staszak:  Oh, was it?

Mrs. Maniscalco:  Yes.  I’ve been here for 13 years, but Budd Lake came in a few before me.

President Labow:  I have the answer to that question.  Lisa remembered it was 70/30 and what happened with that and I do remember.  I remember from going through it, but I also remember the discussions, most recently 30 percent of the project, the reason why it was borne by the general taxpayers because you had to improve the roads.  You had to dig them up, you had to new paving, mill them, pave them and everybody benefited from that.  That’s why a portion of that project was paid by the general tax base.

Mr. Staszak:  70 percent was?


Mrs. Lashway:  70 percent was assessed.

Mr. Staszak:  70 percent was assessed, okay.

 Mr. Buczynski:  Don’t forget, this project too, you are going to be redoing the roads that with sewer lines…you are still going to do the same thing and repave them. 

President Labow:  Yes.  Also, the pump stations were also considered assets, so it comes from that direction.  It’s one of those things, it’s like…I will say that when the Township, when they decided to put public water into the Old Flanders section, there was no vote, it was like, you are getting public water.  Whether you need it or not, you are getting it.  In this case, we’re doing it…I would have preferred to do the whole area because it is less expensive and maybe have a spread out time frame that maybe you hook in when you need it.  For instance, with the Hackettstown MUA, down in the Mount Olive section, Parkway and the houses down there, they weren’t all forced to hook into it, but as their septic goes, there is an allotment available for those homes to hook into the sewer, but we don’t even know if we can do it that way.  It’s sort of like we are paying that price and sort of getting refunded.  That’s how it goes with that.  Anybody else have any questions?  Mr. Canning, did you want to add anything.  

Mr. Canning:  No.  We were just confirming that there is no Resolution in front of Council tonight.  Tonight it’s a discussion item and I anticipate more of this at the Budget Hearings depending on Council’s direction.  I apologize, Councilman Perkins.

President Labow:  Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Perkins:  You don’t need to apologize.  Thank you, Madam President.  I don’t have the survey results in front of me.  I’ve got a pretty good memory.  Other than the Park Ave, nobody is really interested in it.  I’m not interested in fronting $136,000.00 and passing that on to the rest of Mount Olive Township to see a viable, feasible, better engineering study done that has been done by our engineer at least twice already estimated…

Mr. Buczynski:  Ray, just to clear it up, it’s not a study, it’s going to be the actual design.

Mr. Perkins:  Design

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Perkins:  Gene, but that’s not a lot different.  Initially, you came up with estimates of what we thought construction costs would be…

Mr. Buczynski:  It’s different in a way that we have to do surveys, got to do wetlands and all that stuff.  It’s the design phase.

Mr. Perkins:  We knew we had to do that.  You knew you had to do that when you were here.

Mr. Buczynski:  We never did it before, so that’s…

Mr. Perkins:  I understand, but we knew that before.  This was stumbling blocks when we had the County in here and we talked about what areas we might be able to go at.  We are talking 15 homes out of the street that may have cesspools in them.  We can talk about the DEP passing the rule which is not a lot different than the private well testing rule. If people have shallow wells and they go to sell their homes and they have it tested and the well is contaminated, they’re going to have take remedial action on that and possibly have to drill a new well.  It’s not a lot different, one’s clean water, one’s dirty water.  We are just two separate sides of the spectrum.  I’m not in favor…if it’s in the budget, I will vote against it.  I don’t believe that the Township should be required that the rest of Mount Olive Township should be asked to fund a study to see if we can possibly then go even more forward and pass more money onto the rate payers, not just rate payers, the taxpayers of Mount Olive Township to service approximately 20 some on homes on Park Ave.  I’m just not in favor of it. 

President Labow:  It’s not a study though.  That’s the whole thing.

Mr. Perkins:  I’m telling you right now, I’m not in favor of it.  The rest of the Council next year may be in favor of it, but I’m going to vote no, that this not go through into the budget.  I am adamantly opposed to it.  We got a letter from a representative from St. Joseph’s…St. Elizabeth’s, excuse me that came back and disputed some of the facts that you’re presenting, that their ground perks very well.  They don’t have any issues down


there, they don’t have flooding issues.  We don’t have any records from our Department of Health that can document any failures on any of the systems, the individual disposal systems, none do we have to even
anticipate going forward.  If the rest of the Council of six members wants to vote yes for next year’s budget, go right ahead and put it in.  My vote is a no. 

President Labow:  Anybody else have any comments?  Alrighty.  I want to open this up to the public now or Gene, did you have…

Mr. Buczynski:  No, I’ve got nothing else.

President Labow:  I just want to clarify, this is the plans…

Mr. Buczynski:  This is the design plans and specifications that…Ray knows what it is.  It’s the detail portions of the project. 

President Labow:  I just want to make sure…

Mr. Buczynski:  Some of the items are very preliminary. 

President Labow:  I just want to make sure the terminology is correct.  Study is one thing if you are studying something, but this is actually…

Mr. Buczynski:  The planning reports that need to be done as part of the Green Acres, not the Green Acres, I’m thinking about the other job already.  It’s part of the DEP Application.  The actual design is the final design, we’re going to do surveys and we’re going to do environmental reports.  Its final plans to get ready to go to construction.  Once the…with the NJEIT application, once you submit everything, they expect you to go onto construction right away as long as they approve it. 

President Labow:  Exactly.  Once you finish this, then we’re going to know what our, pretty much what a lot of our costs will end up being and the grant money and if…

Mr. Buczynski:  You’ll have a better idea of the costs, but still subject to contractor’s final numbers too, of course.

President Labow:  Exactly because you have to bid out for it.  You really can’t bid out for it until you have this anyway because you don’t know what you are going to be bidding for to find what your costs are for so this is like the first step in order to go anywhere else.  Is that correct? 

Mr. Buczynski:  You’re going to have to get the design done at some point.

President Labow:  That’s right.

Mr. Buczynski:  If you want to move ahead…it’s up to your decision if you want to move ahead with this project or not.

President Labow:  Okay.

Mr. Buczynski:  I’m not pushing the project, I was asked to do something and that’s what I did.

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Perkins:  You did a good job, Gene.

President Labow:  Good job.  Thank you.  We’re going to open up to the public now.  Anybody from the public have anything they’d like to…Miss Elizabeth, would you please come and give your name and address for the record please.

Elizabeth Bancroft Hoak, 75 Main Street, Flanders.  Good evening, you’ll have to forgive me if I start coughing.  Daycare, the germs that just keep on giving.  I am also here on behalf of Matt Johnston who has his law practice at 19 Park Place.  I just want to start by saying there are homes on properties, Mr. Perkins, other than Park Place that are in favor of this project.  I am one of those homes.  Not to be snarky, but do you have public sewer? 


Mr. Perkins:  Yes.

Mrs. Hoak:  Kind of nice to have it, isn’t it? 

Mr. Perkins:  If I would’ve had the choice, I would still be on a septic system and not be paying a quarterly fee to utilize a public service.

Mrs. Hoak:  But there are those who have cesspools who do not have the choice but to upgrade in order to transfer title.  Just to let you know.  It’s kind of nice if you do have sewer.

Mr. Perkins:  I understand.  They bought the house.

Mrs. Hoak:  I believe…I would hope that the Council in considering whether or not they are going to put the money forward to apply for this grant, which if we do receive it would be an excellent way to fund this project.  Sometimes you do have to give a little on the big side for the little person and those of us on Park Place and Main Street right now are the little person.  However, the values of our homes are greatly affected by the fact that we don’t have sewer.  The marketability of our homes is greatly affected because we don’t have sewer.  If we were to have to upgrade our septic in order to transfer title or if we have cesspools, in order to transfer title, that’s a significant cost upfront and out of pocket, which makes it harder to sell our homes.  Our homes are not as…people coming from the east who want to move out to the country don’t want to move out to the country and have a septic because it’s something that is foreign to them and it scares them even though septics can be great, the unknown does scare people.  I understand that is a lot of money to spend, but Budd Lake, the Council at some point in time spent the money to do plans for Budd Lake.  Now’s the time to spend the money to do the plans for Flanders.  We have a unique opportunity because there’s the capacity with the, I don’t know, the sewer at…

President Labow:  Clover Hill.

Mrs. Hoak:  …Clover Hill, thank you.  We’re in a unique opportunity and it would be a shame to not take advantage of the fact this opportunity exists.  To do these plans and then to shelve them would be a shame, but at least we have to get out there and see if we can get the NJEIT funding and see if we can go somewhere with this.  I know that the Mayor, from conversations with the Mayor, he was on board and frankly St. E’s is very much on board because they’ve been in some of the smaller meetings that we’ve has as sub-committee on this project.  I don’t know why the individual isn’t here tonight.  I can’t remember his name, but St. E’s would greatly benefit from this project.  Oh, there he is.  Hi.

President Labow:  John.

Mrs. Hoak:  St. E’s would greatly benefit from this project and the community as a whole who use St. E’s aside from just the people who live on Main Street and on Park Place would benefit from this project.  I just hope that when you go forward and when you take into consideration the pros and cons and the dollar signs and I do recognize that it is a lot, that you think about the benefit that this will bring to the residents who live in those areas and many of whom have been paying into school systems where they don’t children and the whole nine yards for many years.  Sometimes what goes around comes around and in this chance let this be a come around to help us out and to get us hooked into city sewer.  Thank you.

President Labow:  Thank you very much.  Anybody else from the public?  We have two.  We’ll go with this gentleman and…no you can go first…you want him, okay.  John wants to go first.  You know the drill, name and address for the record.

John Batsch, 15 Sherman Place, Flanders, on behalf of St. Elizabeth’s.  Just to follow up on the previous comments and I just wanted to comment back to Mr. Perkins.  The letter that you were referring to was made in reference to Mr. Rattner’s comments that were inaccurate.  That’s why the letter was sent.

Mr. Perkins:  Yes.

Mr. Batsch:  I just want to make sure it is on the record, but certainly St. E’s needs this for…its current utilization of the sewers or septics as well as any expansion capabilities.  Please keep that into consideration and as was mentioned by Gene, some of the burden of connecting into the sewer system would be borne by St. Elizabeth’s itself.  Thank you.

President Labow:  Thank you.  This gentleman here.  Please give us your name and address for the record.


Shawn Hopkins, 1 Gervic Street, Flanders.  This is the third time that this has come up.  Back in 2008, a survey went out.  It involved Old Flanders triangle plus two other sections and it was voted down.  Council said no.  It
came up again in March of this year and a survey went out and the majority of the people were against it.  Council said no.  Two days after the survey was reported to you, we came up with another committee for just Park Place.  If the Council is going to consider spending tax funds to do this project that has twice been shot down, now a third time going to ask again for it, could you tell me what the need is for it.  I haven’t heard, I think Mr. Perkins was pretty explicit with that there has been no septic failures.  What is the need for sewers on Park Place other than the people on Park Place want sewers? 

President Labow:  I can say in conversations that I’ve had with people in that section, a lot of times they do not report their issues with their septics because they don’t want to be forced to try and put a new septic in…

Mr. Hopkins:  Wait, Wait.

President Labow:  …and that they cannot afford.

Mr. Hopkins:  DEP.  Isn’t that against DEP rules? 

President Labow:  Excuse me.

Mr. Hopkins:  Okay, go ahead.

President Labow:  That’s why…when I had asked people why don’t you go to the town and report it, they are afraid of having a financial burden that they can’t afford and they keep hoping that they are going to get sewers.  That was the response that I had heard from a couple of residents in that immediate area.  Why they haven’t actually moved forward and said so, I do not know, but anyone with a cesspool, when they try to sell their house, it’s then going to become an issue. 

Mr. Hopkins:  Okay.  They only have to replace a cesspool when they go sell their house.

President Labow:  That’s correct.

Mr. Hopkins:  That would be no different then if I were to go sell my house and my septic was bad, I would have to repair that also.

President Labow:  Yes.  If you have the room and the capability to put it in, it’s one a mountain, if you don’t have it…but I don’t understand why if the people on Park Place, the majority of the people on Park Place, including the businesses and the churches want it, I am not understanding why we shouldn’t try to accommodate their wishes and the wishes of the rest of Old Flanders and Patriots Way who don’t want it…we’re not going there, we’re going where the residents want it.

Mr. Hopkins:  You’re asking me as a resident to fund something that they want as opposed as opposed to something that they need.  Budd Lake was a different situation where you had failing septics.

President Labow:  I have to tell you, I had a brand new septic put in and two years later we got sewers. 

Mr. Hopkins:  You had the majority of people that had failing septics, correct?

President Labow:  We didn’t have a vote, we didn’t have a choice.

Mr. Hopkins:  Alright.

President Labow:  Okay.

Mr. Hopkins:  Here’s an instance where you don’t have any failing septics, there’s not a need.  If you are saying that there are failing septics and people are not reporting them because there is a financial burden to them, there’s going to be a financial burden to them whether they have sewer or septic anyway.

President Labow:  You’re point is that you feel that there is not a need and we shouldn’t move forward.

Mr. Hopkins:  There is not a need.

President Labow:  Okay, got it.  Thank you.

Mr. Hopkins:  Back in March, we had Christine Marion from the County, Planning and Development, she’s in charge of reporting to the State for the sewer servicing area.  She said the NJDEP ruled saying any property within 200 feet of a sewer main must be hooked in.  We had this discussion about the people on Patriots Way, we can exclude them if they don’t want to be in, but we finally realized that they have to be included and the people on Main Street have to be included.

President Labow:  They have the sewer line in the road already.

Mr. Hopkins:  They have to be included.

President Labow:  They told us that they don’t want to be included.

Mr. Hopkins:  They don’t want to be, but they have to be included.  The comment of…

President Labow:  You know what, I got to say something, since the line is already in the road and we’re going to have the main hookup right there, if they decide…say one of their septics went and they had a choice of putting in a new septic or hooking in, by putting this line in, am I correct Gene, where the line will be they can probably hook in at this point, if they chose to.  It does actually benefit them at some point, but we don’t have to put the line in the road.

Mr. Hopkins:  At this point, they have to hook in.  They are going to be within 200 feet of the sewer main, they have to hook in. 

Mr. Staszak:  If we hook into that main line, they’re with in…that whole street will be within 200 feet…

Mr. Hopkins:  That whole street is going to be within 200 feet of the main line.

Mr. Staszak:  …because it is an active line.

President Labow:  They could…

Mr. Hopkins:  They’d have to hook in.

President Labow:  We also have down…

Mr. Staszak:  They have to because the line is active.

Mr. Hopkins:  We had a study that said 95 percent of the people on Park Place want this, but what about the people on Main Street, were they asked again? 

President Labow:  On Main Street?

Mr. Hopkins:  Yes.  The survey only went out to Park Place, they didn’t go to the people on Main Street who are going to have to hook in.

President Labow:  We did not have an additional survey go out to Park Place.

Mr. Hopkins:  Why not because they are going to have to hook in.

President Labow:  Because we had the survey already.  We already had it.  We knew the numbers on there.

Mr. Hopkins:  You asked for another survey of the people on Park Place.

Mr. Roman:  No.  It was the same survey.  It was one survey.

Mr. Hopkins:  Mr. Canning, was there another survey?

Mr. Canning:  No there was not.

President Labow:  No.

Mr. Hopkins:  Okay.  This is just the results that were parched out for Park Place.


Mr. Canning:  Correct.

President Labow:  Exactly. 

Mr. Hopkins:  What was the response with the people on Main Street who have to be hooked in?

Mr. Canning:  There was not a third question that went out there.  As it was discussed before, I do not have those numbers in front of me, some were for and some were against.  I can’t sit here and say 60 percent for, 60 percent against, I don’t have that in front of me.

Mr. Hopkins:  Mr. Buczynski had done a study for the 107 properties and came back and said it would be roughly $49,000.00 cost per property owner on average.

President Labow:  That was with the one system that was proposed, we’re doing a different system that’s considerably less expensive.

Mr. Hopkins:  You’re coming up with a different system that’s cheaper than that $49,000.00?

President Labow:  A low pressure.  Right.  A low pressure system.

Mr. Buczynski:  …rough numbers.

President Labow:  Gene, you have to…we can’t hear you on the record.  You have to go to the podium, I’m sorry.

Mr. Buczynski:  Sorry.  We let this finalize as we said earlier because it depends on the method of funding.  I think, look at the same rational we had before.  I think the numbers are going to be considerably less in the neighborhood in the twenties, the high twenties, I think.  …the rough range we were talking about, which is considerably less than the original design. 

President Labow:  Right.

Mr. Hopkins:  Considerably less than the $49,000.00, so why wouldn’t we come back to all the people in the Old Flanders triangle and say.

President Labow:  We are leaving it open that if they decide at some point they would like get in before the project starts, they may come back and decide that they want it.  Especially when we start getting some firmer numbers in place, it could very well be.  I have a question for our attorney.  Down at the bottom of Hackettstown mountain, like Parkway and that whole area there, that area is serviced by the MUA and the line is in the road and it’s optional at this point for people to hook into sewers, are you telling me that we should be going down there and telling all those people they have to hook in?

Mr. Semrau:  I do agree that the law does say if you are within 200 feet.  I don’t know the measurements and the circumstances…

President Labow:  It’s right in front…the line is right in front of their house.

Mr. Semrau:  I don’t know the answer for that.

President Labow:  I don’t want to put you on the spot.

Mr. Semrau:  We can certainly take a look at it with the Administration if you…

President Labow:  How it works down there right now because I called the Hackettstown MUA because I’m selling a house for a client right now and their biggest issue is the fact that the house has a septic and they don’t want a septic, they want the sewers and they are offering considerably less on the house because it has a septic instead of a sewer.  We are in negotiations.  Mr. Staszak.

Mr. Staszak:  Question.  Gene, that $136,000.00 is just for Park Place, that’s not designed for the rest of that development if they should come back to us, correct?

Mr. Buczynski:  That’s correct.


Mr. Staszak:  Okay.

Mr. Hopkins:  If you do the survey work and you discover that properties north of the Park Place/Main Street intersection are within 200 feet of the main, then you’d have to revise these numbers, correct?

President Labow:  Gene, do you want to come sit up here?

Mr. Buczynski:  That’s correct.  We discussed, Mr. Canning and I discussed it with the people too.  We need to have a good idea of where we are going to end this project.  We can’t start saying it’s here and we do all the wetlands investigations and everything else and then say well it’s not here, its here.  We’re just wasting time and money, your money, not my money.  It’s a waste of time to go through it twice.  We have to decide where you want go with it.  I am pretty sure even Christine Marion was put up a question at the time where somebody asked her at the one meeting, I was there, would everybody have to be tied in if they had a workable septic system.

President Labow:  She said no.

Mr. Buczynski:  She said no.

President Labow:  Yes.  She said no.  That’s absolutely right.

Mr. Buczynski:  She said no.  It was contrary to the regulations.  She did say no.  I think there would be an argument regarding it, I’m sorry.

President Labow:  Mr. Canning.

Mr. Canning:  Just to be clear, the scope of the marching orders as provided to me by the Mayor was to seek a committee with the residents from Park Place recognizing that there was a group of residents that were in dire need, whether it’s a desire or want, however it’s characterized, the Mayor said to have that committee, that is on Park Place and by necessity, it has to make a left onto Main to hook into Flanders Bartley Road.  The direction I’ve been given has been Park Place down Main Street.  Certainly, I can expand, but the very clear direction was provided to me.  The reason we didn’t go further up towards the, I’m looking at the map here, towards the railroad tracks, is we start hitting the preservation area and as we get up towards the firehouse, the sentiment in that area was no, we are not interested.  The scope of the project has been Park down to Main to connect.

Mr. Buczynski:  There’s nobody home once you get to the preservation area. 

President Labow:  Mr. Nicastro.

Mr. Nicastro:  Just to clear it up so I have a better understanding, the $136,000.00 is based on the numbers for the homes on Park Place?

Mr. Buczynski:  Park and Main going up to…

Mr. Nicastro:  Not tying in those homes on Main Street?

President Labow:  No, they’re…

Mr. Buczynski:  The homes along Main Street, we marked down to the Main Street intersection up to Flanders Crossing, we have the access road.  Those homes are being considered to tie in.

Mr. Nicastro:  Does that cover the 200, what we are talking about homes within 200 feet of the sewer.

Mr. Buczynski:  Not really, it doesn’t cover Patriots…is it Patriots Path?

Mr. Perkins:  Patriots.

President Labow:  Patriots Path.

Mr. Buczynski:  That already has a sewer line in it.  It would have to be evaluated to make sure the sewer line is still there.

Mr. Nicastro:  My concern was just what we’re saying, just to be sure that it’s a law, we have to figure out or if it is a matter of heresay.

Mr. Buczynski:  I don’t know a lot more beyond 200.

Mr. Nicastro:  That’s what I want to know because is it going to change the numbers.

President Labow:  Right.

Mr. Buczynksi:  You might have one or two homes on the elbow at Main Street and Park Ave, you might have one or two homes right there, but then you have the restriction of the preservation area.  We are not really talking adding a lot more to this. 

Mr. Nicastro:  Yes.  I just wasn’t sure if there were homes that needed to be hooked up based on the law that weren’t included.  That’s what I was concerned with.

Mr. Buczynski:  There are no homes other than Patriots.

Mr. Nicastro:  Okay.  I just want to make sure were…

Mr. Hopkins:  That’s where I am a little confused and I think needs to be clarified because in your report back in December 2012, it indicated there were 107 in the Old Flanders triangle.  If we take out the ones in the preservation area, there are 70.  Christine Marion had said the line is basically the railroad tracks.  Anything south of the railroad track on Main Street and Park Place, that was indicated 70 homes.  Now we’re saying here, its 28, 30 some odd homes.

Mr. Buczynski:  I don’t have that here in front of me.

Mr. Hopkins:  We are going to double the scope, if in fact all these homes are within 200 feet of the main.  I think you are going to find out it’s going to be a domino effect.  This home is with 200 feet, we bring it to this homeowner, well now the neighbor is going to be within 200 feet and it’s just…I think you are going to find out you are going to wind up with 70 homes.  You’re having however many people on Park Place on this committee with no input from Main Street.

President Labow:  Other people in the other areas have been invited to join the committee and they have chosen not to attend.  On Main Street.

Mr. Hopkins:  Everybody on Main Street was invited for the committee?

President Labow:  When we decided to have that meeting, there was a whole bunch of people here and a couple of people said can we come to and we said, sure, absolutely.  There was notification given, we were the subcommittee and nobody from those areas showed up.  I thought a couple people would, I thought it would be great, but they didn’t come.  They were all invited to attend.

Mr. Hopkins:  Were letters sent to the people?

President Labow:  We didn’t, they were here.  Why would you want to send a letter?

Mr. Hopkins:  Oh, so people were here at the meeting…

President Labow:  We were at the meeting and we decided to set up a subcommittee to further discuss the needs of Park Place and there were a couple of people said, can I attend?  I said absolutely.  That information was given, but then they didn’t come.

Mr. Hopkins:  I only found out about this by reading it in the paper.

President Labow:  Sometimes you try to put the information, but that was said right at a public meeting.  We were right here, people who were involved in the area, people who were interested were right here.  As a matter of fact, there’s one gentleman from Patriots Way, I said absolutely.  I was hoping he would come, he did not.  Especially, because Patriots Way has a sewer line in the road already.  Then the other people who were also invited to come, they decided they didn’t want to come because if it goes on Park Place they were fine with it.  I believe they knew the people on Park Place needed it. 


Mr. Hopkins:  One further question to Mr. Buczynski, when you say homes, if the people that are going to be charged for these, if they have a two family home, they would be charged twice or is that just once?  How does that charge work?

Mr. Buczynski:  Two family home…

Mrs. Lashway:  He has to get up.

President Labow:  Gene, you have to get up.  I’m sorry.

Mr. Buczynski:  There are not two family homes in that area. 

Mr. Hopkins:  There’s a couple.  There’s a three family home, too.

President Labow:  There’s a couple, Gene.

Mr. Buczynski:  If they are separate connections, they are going to be charged by connection. 

Mr. Hopkins:  If you have a two family home, your assessment would be double.

Mr. Buczynski:  I don’t handle the assessment.  I’m not going to address that issue.

President Labow:  That’s how they did it in Budd Lake.

Mr. Hopkins:  How do you count the number of connections?

Mr. Buczynski:  The number of connections is a connection for each dwelling unit.

Mr. Hopkins:  That answers that question I just asked you.  If there are twenty homes, there are twenty connections.  If there are twenty homes and one of them is a two family, you would have twenty one connections.

Mr. Buczynski:  Let’s just talk about units.  There will be 21 units, you’ll have 21 connections.

Mr. Hopkins:  We’ll base it on units.  I had asked for clarification for all the units that will be involved with this project and now I would ask now that I could further that request, a complete description of each unit that is going to be considered for this project.

President Labow:  You want a description of every property that is going to be considered for this?

Mr. Hopkins:  Yes, every unit that will be hooked into this.  If there are people out there…

President Labow:  Excuse me, one second.  Do we have that information yet, Mr. Canning?

Mr. Canning:  That’s beyond where I’m at on even on the scope.  The scope of…Mr. Perkins was asking me for something…I want to make it clear last year’s survey was what I was asked to do.  I did that survey for the entire, what they call the Old Flanders triangle.  Subsequent to that, the scope focused upon Park Place with the line going down Main Street.  The extent of my activity has not been to identify each and every house, I’m not even at that point yet.

President Labow:  Right.

Mr. Canning:  The general concept that was brought before Council and what I’ve said for months and months has been in December, we would bring the question before Council if we could fund it in the 2013 year and you would have the estimate from the engineer if you wanted to fund it this year.  That is an impossibility.  We just don’t have the money this year.  The next step is it is in the 2014 budget.  At that time when were readying the budget, do you want to fund this with the understanding that we would do further work to go towards the NJEIT.  I am not at any point where I’ve identified, you know, this person, Sean Canning and everybody else on Park Place is going to be getting into this because I am not even there yet.  If you approve, say yes we are going to go ahead with this project and then by all means, we will get to that point. 

Mr. Hopkins:  Wouldn’t we need to know how many units we are going to be able deal with as far as the proposal for the cost?  Otherwise…

Mr. Canning:  I couldn’t.  Mount Olive is a busy place, I put in a ton of hours as it is. 

Mr. Hopkins:  I’m not saying that…

Mr. Canning:  I could do that, there will be nothing done for a couple of weeks.

Mr. Buczynski:  I think that’s related to me, Sean.  The thing is we know it’s going from one place to another place and we know the overall length of the pipes. We’ve counted the homes, we came up with a certain number, if it’s not 35, its 37, then its two more connections.  That number is not going to change overall value of the project.  I think what we’ve done at this point is more than enough to make a decision.

Mr. Hopkins:  After your comment before was if we didn’t know the exact scope of the project, if we kept on changing it, we would just be throwing more money out.

Mr. Buczynski:  We know what the exact scope of the project is at this point based on the marching orders we got from the Mayor.

Mr. Hopkins:  Okay.  How many homes are we talking about? 

Mr. Buczynski:  I don’t have…we’re talking about 28-30 homes.

Mr. Canning:  Length of street.  I think I can answer that, Shawn.  When Gene calculates it in his engineers’ mind, it is based upon the length of the run, not number of connections.  To be honest with you, from what I understand, again I’m not an expert in sewer connections, it’s irrelevant how many connect because they have to pay for the connection fees, what matters to us is digging up the road, running that from Flanders Bartley up to Main and Park, which I believe is 2,500 feet.

Mr. Buczynski:  To be safe, throw in $1,000.00 per connection, so we might be saying…

Mr. Canning:  It’s not the lion’s share of what this project is going to cost.

Mr. Buczynski:  The design is not going to change anything.

President Labow: If I could just…I just want to ask a question, Gene.  With the Budd Lake sewer system, we went by the EDU’s over there, so it was a different measurement, a different how you calculate it.  If somebody put an addition on their house and they put a bathroom, they had to be charged another EDU.  They started out as one fee, but then they paid two, if the put an addition on.  That’s pretty much how it works.  I think on the same thing on Old Flanders Park Place, if you come to find out you thought you had a one family, but it’s a two family or maybe it’s a three family, maybe you need three connections, that actually benefits the whole project, but it doesn’t mean you need extra pipe in the road.  It doesn’t increase the cost on that part of it.

Mr. Buczynski:  It affects the cost of the connection.

President Labow:  Yes.  They have to pay the cost of the connection and overall it actually helps everybody else if there happens to be a couple of two or three families.  Just going on the basics of this building one, two, three, four, five, twenty-eight buildings, if one happens to be a multi-family, it’s a plus.

Mr. Buczynski:  I’ll tell you, at this stage, if we are comparing numbers, there are a couple of two family homes, I don’t have that on record, I don’t.

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Buczynski:  I just don’t.

President Labow:  It could be that somebody decides to go in afterwards and make a two family home.  A lot of those homes that are two families now started out as one family and became two families.

Mr. Buczynski:  You can find that in the tax records.

President Labow:  Right.

Mr. Buczynski:  We didn’t get to that point yet.


President Labow:  Yes.  We are not to that point yet.  We’re trying to get the basics.  There’s no point in spending time analyzing that part of it until you find out what the cost is to get the pipes in the road and get to that point.  After that, when it comes to the connection…

Mr. Hopkins:  Time is a little cheaper than money, isn’t it?

President Labow:  Hmm?

Mr. Hopkins:  Isn’t time a little bit cheaper than money when we have those resources here in town?

Mr. Canning:  Time is money.  Any manager will tell you that.

President Labow:  Yes.  Time is definitely money.  When we get to that point, we’ll make sure that when it comes to the actual connections, each one will be evaluated at that time so we’ll know what we are going to access each property.  That’s where our tax assessor comes in, after you get to the next point.  You are kind of like at this point you want us to take time, which is money, resources, which believe me, we are stretched to the limit now with the resources, you want us to pull people away from other tasks to find that information that if we end up not going forward with this project, we didn’t need it anyway.  It’s not going to change the decision on it.

Mr. Hopkins:  I think that’s my right under OPRA, Open Public Records Act, right.

President Labow:  You can ask, you can actually ask, but if it’s not information that is readily available, by law, we are not mandated to go out and create a report for anyone.

Mr. Hopkins:  I’m not asking you to create, I’m just asking information that is here in the records in the Town.

President Labow:  If you go to the County, which are you an appraiser or an assessor, a tax assessor?

Mr. Hopkins:  An Assessor.

President Labow:  You have those resources there. You can just go to the County Tax Board of Records and look that up yourself.  I wanted to find out about cesspools and I wanted to know how many houses there were, how much municipal property, I spent about three hours going through that website and getting all that information to give to Mr. Canning to give to Frank Wilpert, Sr. to let me know which properties were what.  I didn’t ask the taxpayers to pay somebody at Town Hall to research that.

Mr. Hopkins:  Mr. Semrau, is that a proper response to an OPRA request?

Mr. Semrau:  I don’t understand your question, you are saying a proper…

Mr. Hopkins:  Well, Mrs. Labow said I should just go to the County and do my own research if I want to ask questions about records here in Town.

Mr. Semrau:  Shawn, I think you are asking questions and I think everyone is trying to answer it too.  I think that…one thing that I would say, to add to this is, if it comes to the point where the governing body wants to formally proceed, I think everyone is aware of the fact that Ordinance would identify all the properties…

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Semrau:  …that would be involved before any decision is made.  I think that’s what we are trying to tell you.

Mr. Hopkins:  That would involved before you decide to fund $136,000.00 or after the $136,000.00?

President Labow:  After.

Mr. Hopkins:  After the $136,000.00.  That’s my point.  You are going to identify those who may be involved after you spend $136,000.00 and what if you find that 50 percent of these people are against it at that point in time?

President Labow:  Mr. Canning.


Mr. Canning:  The mechanism of funding by this Council would obviously be the budget hearings, then the Ordinance, introduction of the budget and the passage.  The actual awarding of this project would not commence, I would imagine not until about, when we have approval, May through late June, depending on when Trenton back to us.  At that point that Ordinance consideration would certainly come into play because come next summer we’d have to start moving, okay how big is this impact, what’s the scope, we have to get this grant application ready for the NJEIT in October.  Even though we discuss it possibly in February, as we know the budget is not going to be approved, advertised and in effect earliest May, possibly, late June.  At that point, I would surmise and I will certainly represent on record, I think I kept you in the loop on this, haven’t I?

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Canning:  That if there is any progress on this, if there’s a document is created, I will certainly alert Mr. Hopkins, as I have other members of the committee who have asked me to keep them apprise.  I’ve dropped e-mails, hey it’s coming out on this day.  Whatever I have, I have certainly shared.

President Labow:  I want to share…I want to ask, Mr. Hopkins...

Mr. Hopkins:  Yes.

President Labow:  I just want to say that I believe 100 percent that everybody in the public certainly can have the information, but as I understand it and I will ask Mr. Semrau to correct me if I am wrong, through OPRA, if it isn’t a record that we readily keep that’s available to give the public a copy of, we are not mandated to create that report or that record if it’s not something that we already have readily available.  I think you are asking us…is that correct?

Mr. Semrau:  Yes.  That’s correct.  I also believe if I take away from your questioning, Mr. Hopkins, it’s that, you asked about the number.  I think that is all going to evolve over time and I understand your question, but it is going to evolve.  We have a general number right now as to what’s involved.

Mr. Hopkins:  Okay.

Mr. Semrau:  One point that you made about the mandatory connection and how many other properties that may impact, I think that’s relevant to your question.  I think that needs to be answered. 

Mr. Hopkins:  That’s my point.

Mr. Semrau:  As far as to just count right now and get into records requests and things like, I don’t think the timing is right for that right now.  I think down the road all that information will be more specific.  I think we owe you an answer.

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Semrau:  About the connection.

Mr. Hopkins:  That’s really my whole point I’m trying to get out here.  I think the questions I asked…

President Labow:  I would also…

Mr. Hopkins:  …how many properties and who is going to be involved should be answered before you even get funding for the construction plans.

President Labow:  Right.  Well, I don’t know if we need to find that out just know, but I do want to find out the answer to that because I know several properties in town where there is a sewer line running right in front of the house and they’re not connected.  It could be that…

Mr. Semrau:  We don’t need to speculate, we’ll get the answer.

President Labow:  We’ll find out, we’ll get the answer to it, but we don’t have the answer tonight to be able to tell you.

Mr. Buczynski:  We’ll get the answer, we just don’t have it in front of us today.


President Labow:  We can get that answer, that’s not an issue.  I don’t think that kind of…right now the question on the table is if we want to find…we’re not even voting on this tonight, this is information for when we get to the 2014 budget.  We’re not making a vote on this, Gene is presenting, this is what we need prepared that we need to put into the budget and this is the number.  It is an excellent…to explain to the Council what this number is when we get to our budget hearings because our budget hearings kick in right away early in the year so we wanted to get this information together.  If there’s like, your question I think is excellent, if there are properties and you have to hook it in, we definitely need to be aware of whether or not that is definitely a mandate or can you even put it something like, if it’s 200 feet I would think, I would like Mr. Semrau to double check on this, if it’s a mandate that you have to be connected, there’s many towns that the connection you connect when you need to connect if your current system bad, it could be something like that, within a 200 feet.  I’d like clarification.

Mr. Hopkins:  That’s an important question.

President Labow:  I want to know…because it could be that and I’m sure if somebody’s system goes and they have a choice of hooking into the sewer or getting a new septic, they may want to do a new septic…or they may want to hook to the sewers.  If they can’t…you need to know that answer.

Mr. Hopkins:  Right.

President Labow:  Anybody from Council?  Any other questions or concerns?

Mr. Hopkins:  Nope.  That’s it.

President Labow:  Thank you for bringing to our attention certain questions that you have that we can find out the answers.  Just state your name and address for the record please.

Quentin Ketterson, 9 Park Place, Flanders.

President Labow:  Quentin, a little bit closer to the mic please.  Thank you.

Mr. Ketterson:  Is that better?  All of us recall in the 1970’s when the State of New Jersey tried to pass casino gaming.  It went down in flames.  Then they said, what we ought to do is we’ve got to limit it to Atlantic County.  It was only when they limited it to two streets in Atlantic City that it passed.  The point is that there are certain things that appear to benefit one community, but actually benefit the State.  That’s the first point I want to make to this issue of whether or not Park Place residents are being unfairly advantaged.  Secondly, I would like you all to visual an inverted Y.  That’s the way water flows down off that mountain.  One leg of that mountain comes to us on Park Place.  The other leg of it goes around us and goes to the back of all of those homes on Park Place.  Phyllis has very magnanimously allowed her property to be flooded each time there is any kind of a storm.  She has no legal obligation, in fact to the extent, that there is any legal issue involved is perhaps taking her land without compensation, if you want to look at the legal issues.  We built a swale to divert it so it wouldn’t flood back in the vicinity of our friend, Mr. Hopkins.  If the swale went away or if her pipe that takes the water off that second leg, it would go back to Mr. Hopkins area and all along the back of Park Place and would indeed flood a lot of places and those few septics that are functioning properly now, would soon not function properly, certainly.  My only point is that while we can argue policies, we agree policies are fair questions, there are legal issues, certainly, but what I am alerting you to, that the pipe that comes down that leg has that much room, clearance, without a storm you can see it yourselves.  Drive down Park Place, look at the raise, look at the pipe.  What we need to be mindful of is, it’s about to get worse, we ought to deal with it like it’s about to get worse.  We have to find out what our alternatives are.  Sean Canning has done a spectacular job. So has, I apologize, I can’t remember your name, this gentleman here.

President Labow:  Gene Buczynski.

Mr. Ketterson:  We don’t need to commit X millions, hundreds of thousands or whatever, what we need to do is to find out what our options are.  I see no reason why, in light of the gravity of what is almost certainly coming your way, flooding, you would take into account, it’s worth doing.  Thank you.

President Labow:  Thank you.  Anyone else?  Phyllis.  Do you want to go right here to this microphone?  Please state your name and address for the record.

Phyllis Shelton, 9 Park Place, Flanders.  Shawn, I’ve known you since you were a kid, not well, but I’ve known you.  I know you know my son.


President Labow:  Phyllis, you have to address the Council.

Mrs. Shelton:  Council.

President Labow:  You can’t address the other residents or…

Mrs. Shelton:  Okay.  I just was wondering when he was standing up there, what, because he, I don’t think there’s an option at this point for him to get sewer and I can’t understand why he’s so adamant about the whole thing.  Actually, and I’m sure you have a reason, a good one, but being in real estate 30 years, which I hate to admit, I do know for sure that people with sewers have more value to their homes than people without them.  I think if you have them, you are accepting that.  If you didn’t have them, you’d understand exactly what I said.  I do remember the day we got a letter saying that, and I was so happy frankly, that we were going to get city water.  We weren’t, as you said, asked, we didn’t vote, we were just told that was what it was going to be.  Believe me, in the long run, it has turned out to be such a good thing.  I cannot understand why, just imagine large cities with septics.  That’s not possible.  You have to have sewers.  It’s the modern, the updated way to go at this point.  Septics are going to be out of date before too long.  It has to be because we are taking our land and using for things that shouldn’t be in it.  Then it gets bad and you have to do another section.  I watch this happen all the time and if you do have your sewers, you are in much better shape for yourself or if you are going to sell a house and you just need to kind of consider that.  We pay taxes, I don’t even want to tell you what I pay because it’s terrible, it doesn’t leave me a whole lot left over once I pay my taxes.  I would think that I should have some kind of a say so being that I do pay taxes.  I’ve tried to make my land beautiful.  I take care of everything the minute it starts to look like it needs something.  It gets painted or gets…things happen to that.  I’ve worked and I’ve spent most of my money and I’m not just saying this on my properties because I want it to be a beautiful section of this little town.  Sometimes I wonder if I am even appreciated.  It kind of hurts.  To just say personal things about this because I love the little town.  If I didn’t I would have been gone a long time ago.  I try to make things look good, I pay my taxes, I try to do things that are right and I guess I just can’t understand why all of us can’t see, and I’m not talking about I mean everybody, the future, that if you spend the money on sewers, it is not going to cost you any more than putting a new septic in.  It just won’t.  And you can pay it over a long time as opposed to the man who does your septic, he wants his money when he’s done.  That’s hard to come up with, I couldn’t do it.  A lot of people can’t do it.  That wasn’t explained in that letter that was sent around.  Our voting, which I’ve never heard of before, which did happen, its okay, it did happen.  People were shocked because they didn’t understand it.  That was the basic thing, they did not understand what everybody was putting in front of them and they had to say a yes or a no.  If you think ahead and think that the future is right out there in front of us, it’s not for septics, it is for sewers.  I wish…I don’t know how many of you people have sewers, but when you do it’s a wonderful thing.  Our septics are sitting there where some of the pieces of land and I have some, you could not put a new septic in.  You couldn’t do it, there’s no room.  You’d have to do what they call a mound system.  What does that look like?  Have you seen them?  They’re pretty ugly.  This I know you don’t care for that much, but I just love to tell you that I feel and maybe I’m wrong if there’s more of a historic area around, let me know about it, but I think that little street of Main Street and Park is the history of Flanders and maybe the Township should be really trying to preserve that and keep it because this is our history.  I’ve watched them tear down for example, you people probably saw it too, it made me sick it had to happen because that was what they call progress, those three buildings just went down last week for Siemans.  I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but I kept thinking and never said anything about it because I didn’t know what was going to happen.  That barn which has been there for years could’ve been a reception area, where they could have saved part of that and make it look a little bit…now wait till you see what’s going to happen because it’s all just going to be big buildings.  It would’ve kept part of the charm anyway had they even thought about doing that.  I used to be on the historical committee and I don’t even know if we have one anymore, I would like to do it again because I would have tried to make that happen.  I think during the negotiations, whoever was in on it, that wasn’t even thought of, it was just take those buildings down.  The other houses weren’t that special, but that barn, the front part of it was I thought charming, but it’s gone.  That’s what’s going to happen to Park Place and Main Street if we don’t do something about it and it kind of makes me sick that I’ve worked on these old places with hammers and nails and everything else trying to put most of my money that I’ve ever made in my life into these places and to see them up as a question mark as to what is going to happen.  I really feel that if you put sewers with all the houses that you can that have the opportunity, especially old places like that, it’s going to revive them again and keep the old town like it is.  I don’t know what’s going to happen to it if you guys don’t go for it or don’t want it.  It’s going to be a sad thing for me to see that most of my grown up life I’ve tried to make it look nice there and I don’t know what’s going to happen when you see these big mound systems and people trying to…when we have our last, what I think is our last opportunity to put in our sewers and it is the thing to me to do, I can’t imagine and you talk to people who have them, they can’t imagine having septics again.  I mean, I’ve been to Europe several times and a lot of it was a long time ago when I was working there and saw what people did and I didn’t even understand it and this is a personal thing to say, but in your louge, your bathroom there, no toilet paper went down, they had like a bucket with a lid on and when you finished that went on it.  That’s how they saved what little septics that they had.  Now, going back there, I see

that’s all changed, it’s all sewers now and it’s made a huge difference in the towns and everything else.  Just think about the future when we’re not here and your kids, if they do stay here…we need this.  This is my feeling, I think we really need this, if you can prove to me that we don’t, I think I can prove to you that we do because I have to watch for example the people on both sides of me when they come in to give them a whole long list of what not to do when they move in because they don’t understand it if they’ve come from sewers.  What you can’t do and I have a big list typed up, laminated and you just have to hope that they are going to listen to you.

President Labow:  Thank you.

Mrs. Shelton:  Maybe they will and maybe they won’t. 

President Labow:  Thank you, Phyllis.  I agree with you.

Mrs. Shelton:  I’m sorry to keep talking, but it emotionally gets to me.

President Labow:  I understand.  I just want to say, did you want to add anything else or we’ll continue on.

Mrs. Shelton:  No.  That’s it.  I do wonder why some people who aren’t even involved, except for the tax ramifications, which aren’t going to be that great are concerned about it.

President Labow:  Sometimes it’s good Phyllis to have people’s opinions.

Mrs. Shelton:  It’s good to have different opinions.

President Labow:  Then we can address issues and questions before they become any further.  I will say…did you want to say…okay, good.  Thank you.

Mrs. Shelton:  No, I just…I’m sorry I got so personal about it.

President Labow:  No, no, no.  I just want to say.

Mrs. Shelton:  I love that little town.

President Labow:  I want to say also just to point out with what Phyllis wants to say, also the other thought I had with the whole Highlands Preservation thing is about the water supply.  With all this tributaries right there in Old Flanders, which is another reason why having sewers right there would probably be a very good idea.  I will say, trying to call on some of the landlords in Old Flanders for rentals, the first thing they want to know, even know that some of the buildings there, not yours, but somebody else had called and they had four bedrooms, but they can’t take four people because their septic can’t handle four people.

Mrs. Shelton:  That’s exactly right.

President Labow:  They don’t come to the town and say that because they don’t have room to put septic, so they are kind of like charging less for rent because they can’t accommodate as many people as the building will and so…

Mrs. Shelton:  You have to be careful with…

President Labow:  You have to be careful, sometimes it’s a huge financial burden so the reason I feel very strongly that we have a lot of people all over the town that spend a lot of money for some services they absolutely never use, but it is part of making our community better and this is part of improving our community overall. 

Mrs. Shelton:  I just wanted to say too…thanks…that we need to move forward in this town.  Chester has a historical area and it’s beautiful, it brings people all around, it makes them income and money.  Mendham has it.  All around, our only little town, we really don’t have a town if you think about it.

President Labow:  Yes.  Phyllis, we have to kind of move on.

Mrs. Shelton:  Sorry.

President Labow:  That’s okay.  We understand.

Mrs. Shelton:  I just want you to think about the future.

President Labow:  We do.  Thank you.

Mrs. Shelton:  Not just me or you, but our kids.

President Labow:  Thank you.

Mrs. Shelton:  Thanks.

President Labow:  Thank you very much Phyllis.  I certainly understand what you’re saying.  I understand what Mr. Hopkins is saying as well.  We all have passion about our thought process on this whole entire project.  It’s good to get all the information on the table.  Moving right along if I can find my Agenda because we have a lot more to go on the meeting.  Phyllis, I didn’t mean to disrespect you or cut you off, I just kind of have to move on.  It’s icy out and I’m getting very, very nervous because I could barely make it here tonight slipping all over the place.  I worry about everyone getting home safely.  Next on our Agenda, we have approval of Minutes of previous meetings, Mr. Ferrante.


November 26, 2013 WS & PM (Mr. Ferrante absent)

Mr. Ferrante:  I move for the approval of the November 26, 2013 Workshop and Public Meeting minutes.

Mr. Perkins:  Second.

President Labow:  Any discussion, questions?  Seeing none.  Roll Call please.

ROLL CALL:           Passed with the exception Mr. Ferrante abstained 

President Labow:  Next on the Agenda is our Correspondence.

Mr. Ferrante:  I was not present at that…

President Labow:  Yes, that’s what I…you weren’t present at that one. Okay.

Mr. Ferrante:  Okay.

President Labow:  Yes, he was not present at that one.  Okay, we’ll correct that.  Thank you.  I thought that you weren’t.  Correspondence, we have 21 pieces of Correspondence tonight.  Do we have any questions, concerns, comments?  Seeing none.  Can I have a motion…no, we don’t do a motion for that.  Sorry.  I have a really bad cold, so it’s kind of hard to concentrate. 



  • Letter received November 25, 2013, from Township of Byram, New Jersey regarding Land Use Ordinances.  PDF Correspondence


  • Letter received November 25, 2013, from Township of Chester, New Jersey regarding Notice of Pending Ordinances.  PDF Correspondence
  • Email received November 25, 2013, from Downtown New Jersey regarding Don’t miss the Downtown New Jersey Excellence Awards.  PDF Correspondence


  • Email received November 26, 2013, from Bloustein School News regarding Last chance to register!  Sustainable Raritan River Mini-Conference 12/5/13.  PDF Correspondence
  • Email received November 29, 2013, from Rutgers regarding NEWS from the Raritan River Initiative – December 2013.  PDF Correspondence



  • Email received December 2, 2013, from Rutgers regarding December 5th Mini-Conference – Registration is about to close.  PDF Correspondence
  • Letter received December 2, 2013, from State of New Jersey Government Records Council regarding Thomas Caggiano v. Township of Mt. Olive (Morris) GRC Complaint No. 2012-250.  PDF Correspondence


  • Email received December 4, 2013 from Hanover Township regarding Resolution of Township Committee Endorsing Assembly, No. 193.  PDF Correspondence


  • Letter received November 20, 2013, from Law Offices of Courter, Kobert & Cohen regarding the Department of Environmental Protection and Jallad – Single Family Home (Block 7100, Lot 66).  PDF Correspondence
  • Letter received November 25, 2013, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Centercourt at Mount Olive, 184 Flanders Netcong Road (Block 4400, Lot 3).  PDF Correspondence
  • Letter received November 26, 2013, from the State of New Jersey, Office of the Attorney General, Division of Law and Public Safety, Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control regarding Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control versus Burger N Brew, Inc.  PDF Correspondence
  • Letter received December 2, 2013, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Marceil Redevelopment 148 Sand Shore Road (Block: 2801, Lot: 78).  PDF Correspondence


  • Email received December 2, 2013, from the Department of Community Affairs regarding GovConnect: December 2, 2013.


  • Email received November 25, 2013, from Morris County Department of Planning and Development regarding Morris County Report Announcement.  PDF Correspondence


  • Email received November 26, 2013, from County of Morris regarding News from County of Morris

            November 26, 2013.  PDF Correspondence

  • Letter received December 2, 2013, from Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders regarding Quarterly Meetings with Morris County Municipalities.  PDF Correspondence



  1. Letter received November 25, 2013, from Comcast regarding Cable Channel and Price Changes.  PDF Correspondence


  1. Email received November 26, 2013, from First Energy Corporation regarding JCP&L Continues Vegetation Management Efforts.  PDF Correspondence
  1. Email received November 26, 2013, from First Energy Corporation regarding JCP&L RDO Tour Invitation.  PDF Correspondence


  1. Email received December 2, 2013, from First Energy regarding Holiday Lighting Safety Reminder from JCP&L/First Energy.  PDF Correspondence
  1. Email received December 4, 2013, from EnergySolve regarding And the winners Are…  PDF Correspondence




President Labow:  Ordinance for public hearing.  It’s our second reading.  I just want to explain to Brandon, when we have Ordinances, you’ll have two readings.  It’s called the first reading, which we don’t have any this evening because basically because most of all, we are at the end of the year so we wouldn’t have probably

enough time to do a second reading.  What we do is you’ll have a first reading, which is an introduction and we’ll announce the date when the second reading will be when it then actually becomes enacted into law.  For tonight we just have the second reading.  I just wanted to explain how Ordinances go.  As I said before, Brandon is working on his Citizenship in the Community Badge.  We are very happy to have all of our Scouts come on up to our meetings and join us on the Dias and ask questions and learn about our local government.  I open the hearing to the public on Ordinance #30-2013,

Ord.#30-2013 Township of Mount Olive Highlands Preservation Area Land Use Ordinance. (Synopsis) PDF Ord.

President Labow:  Mr. Perkins, will you please move that for us?

Mr. Perkins:  Yes.  I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #30-2013.

Mr. Roman:  Second.

President Labow:  Thank you.  Second.  Any Council discussion?  Seeing none.  Anyone from the public?  Any discussion?  Seeing none.  Could I have Roll Call please?

ROLL CALL:           Passed Unanimously

President Labow:  Ordinance #30-2013 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law.  Next on the Agenda we have Ordinance #31-2013…wait a minute, Lisa, why do we have…oh, I’m sorry, I read it wrong…We Ordinance #31-2013 entitled:

Ord. #31-2013An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Amending Ordinance #36-2012 Which Established Salaries for the Mayor, Council, Department Heads, Supervisory Personnel and Employees of the Township Clerk’s Office.  PDF Ord.

President Labow:  Mr. Roman, would you please move that for us?

Mr. Roman:  I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #31-2013.

Mr. Staszak:  Second.

President Labow:  Did anyone from the public have any questions, concerns?  Seeing none.  Anybody from the Council?  I actually have a question, because I am a little bit confused, Mr. Canning.  Normally, we’ll have an Executive Session before we increase salaries beyond the percentage that was approved in the budget.  I see a position on here I don’t ever remember seeing before, that’s a Sports Ombudsman.

Mr. Canning:  I do believe the Mayor did brief Council on this, Mr. Licitria as the basically the liaison between the Recreation and the sports groups. 

President Labow:  We’re paying for that, the taxpayers are paying?  Where’s Mr. Hopkins?  No.

Mr. Canning:  Yes.  That’s the Mayor’s proposal.

President Labow:  I mean were paying $1,500.00 a year for something that’s going to be for the sports and that’s coming out of taxpayers’ dollars, I don’t understand that.

Mr. Canning:  It’s being paid for out of Recreation Utility.  We’ve identified a very clear need which has been overwhelming Jill in the Recreation Department.  The Mayor proposed Mr. Licitra as an ideal candidate.  He has been pretty much doing it gratis the past couple of months.  He certainly has been able to head off and solve a lot of problems which were festering.  It was taking Jill’s time away from the utility, which is suffering on the selling sponsorship end.

President Labow:  The question I have a concern with this is only because in the code, I believe that if you are politically involved, and such he works for the Senator and the Assembly, can he have that position do you know?  I don’t think you can, well it’s not really a salary so not getting benefits, but…

Mr. Semrau:  So long as his involvement isn’t when he’s performing these responsibilities, I think he’s fine.

President Labow:  I just want to make sure because I don’t want to turn around and have a lawsuit…could you just clarify that, just in case.

Mr. Semrau:  Yes.

President Labow:  It is coming out of the Recreation Utility which is funds that the sports groups raise, so they are in essence paying that.  Any other, is there anything else on here that’s above and beyond the two percent?

Mr. Canning:  I don’t believe so, Sherry?

President Labow:  I don’t know if we should have, should we have had him present or that…

Mr. Canning:  Yes, there is.  Sherry just briefed me that both Mr. Detoro and …

President Labow:  Wait, wait.  Can we discuss specific names if they don’t write them?

Mr. Semrau:  Yes.  You can.  We’re not talking about performance, we are just talking the actual responsibilities.

President Labow:  I’m sorry.

Mr. Canning:  The two exceptions would’ve been Michelle Masser, in the Clerk’s Office and Mr. Detoro, in the Fire Marshall’s Office.  They were both given $2,500.00 extra.

Mrs. Maniscalco:  Yes.  Everyone else is at two percent, Colleen.

President Labow:  Okay.

Mrs. Maniscalco:  Okay.

President Labow:  I just to make sure.  When I was looking through here, I was really surprised when I saw a new position on there, so I am glad you clarified it that it’s coming out of the Recreation Utility and also just for clarification for the public that the Recreation Utility, which is I think was a phenomenal concept, they actually raise their own funds to pay for their salaries.  This is a case where it’s the users of the municipality that are actually paying for the services.

Mr. Canning:  Correct.  Self liquidating, it’s paid for by the sports groups and our experience with him so far has been invaluable and we believe by freeing up Jill from having to kind of ride her to free her up to do what she does best which is run the utility and make it self liquidating.

President Labow:  I have to say, I try to volunteer at every one of those events that I can and I think it is absolutely amazing the amount of time and work our staff puts in for that.  Absolutely phenomenal.  Great job.  Okay.  That’s what my question was, I wanted to make sure I understood where that was coming from.  I apologize, I missed the last meeting when it was introduced.  Mr. Nicastro…no, Mr. Perkins.  No.  I thought you were raising your hand.  You guys are having you own conversation, sorry.  Can I have Roll Call please?

ROLL CALL:           Passed Unanimously

President Labow:  Ordinance #31-2013 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of the same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. 

Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.




  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Cancelling Balance in the Bid Award for the Acquisition of a Ladder Truck for the Budd Lake Fire Department.  PDF Res


  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Cancellation of 2013 Appropriations in the Recreation Utility Fund. PDF Res
  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of One Purchasing Contract (Tequipment, Inc.). PDF Res


  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the DLGS for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2013 Municipal Budget ($71,275.63 for a Recycling Tonnage Grant). PDF Res
  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Approving a Vendor Service Contract on a “Non-Fair and Open” Basis Pursuant to the Pay-to-Play Law (FDR Hitches, LLC). PDF Res


  1. Resolution A of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Cancellation of a Grant Balance (Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over). PDF Res
  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the DLGS for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2013 Municipal Budget ($15,000 for donation – Braille Trail). PDF Res


  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Chapter 159 Budget Amendment in the 2013 Budget for the Body Armor Replacement Fund $5,979.92. PDF Res
  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing the Annual Reorganization Meeting for January 2, 2014.


  1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Consenting to the Proposed Water Quality Management (WQM) Plan Amendment Entitled: Chatham Township, Morris County, Municipal Chapter Proposed Amendment to the Upper Delaware, Upper Raritan and Northeast Water Quality Management Plan (WQMP). PDF Res
  1. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Providing for the Transfer of 2013 Budget Appropriations for the Current Fund Budget.


President Labow:  Next on our Agenda we have Consent Resolutions.  We have…is that…

Mr. Roman:  Eleven.

Mrs. Lashway:  Eleven.

Mr. Staszak:  Eleven.

President Labow:  No, but…they won’t let you add it on, is that Non-Consent? 

Mrs. Lashway:  We’re adding it tonight, so it will be number 11 on Consent.

President Labow:  On Consent, I just want to make sure.  We have one through eleven Consent Resolutions.  May I have a motion to…

Mr. Staszak:  I make a motion that we approve Consent Resolutions one through eleven.

President Labow:  Thank you, Mr. Staszak.

Mr. Roman:  Second.   

President Labow:  Mr. Roman is second. Any questions, concerns?  Seeing none.  Roll Call please.


ROLL CALL:           Passed Unanimously 


  1. Bill List. PDF Bill List


President Labow:  Next on our Agenda is our Bill List and I’m going to ask Mr. Nicastro, would you please move our Bill List for us.    

Mr. Nicastro:  I move the Bill List.

President Labow:  Is there a second?

Mr. Staszak:  Second.

President Labow:  Thank you.  Any questions, concerns?  Anyone from the public regarding our Bill List?  Seeing none.  Roll Call please.

ROLL CALL:           Passed with the exception Mr. Nicastro abstained on check #64252   


President Labow:  Administrative Reports.  Mr. Canning, what’s the good word?

Mr. Canning:  Thank you, Madam President.  Just two items.  One, the auto-refuse is now into its second week.  Overall, it’s been going according to plan.  I want to commend Jimmy Lynch in particular on this.  He has been shepherding both that and roads in different aspects.  So far, the biggest thing that has been inundating us has been, there’s two items, one is the swap outs.  So far, to date we have done 211 can swap outs.  That was, despite our advertisement, we kind of knew this was going to happen, but once the cans were delivered, thus far, and we expect more, there has been 211 residents that said they want the smaller can.  We’ve in the interest of customer service, been physically taking the old cans and swapping them to the smaller cans.  The other two things we’re getting call backs on, actually three, there’s been a lot of concerns saying I need a larger can or I need to throw more garbage out.  What we are asking people is patience on that, we’re going to get through the holidays as this is a higher solid waste time of year.  Once we get into January, our next phase in this, we want to start the recycling education program combined with the warning program because I am very much convinced, just my own experience and from what’s been out at the side of the road from what I have been able to see and get reports back, there is some Styrofoam and boxes and things that really don’t need to be in the solid waste stream, they’re out in the solid waste stream.  We’ve got to get them out of that into the recycling stream.  It’s a big hit, I know you and I have spoken about this before.  It does cost us quite a bit in the overall tipping fees.  Once that’s done, I think it’s time to sit there and re-evaluate come late January, early February where we’re at on a case by case basis bring the Ordinance to Council looking at our whole garbage collection.  How many gallons and how many cans we’ll allow at a fee, but we want to get to these two processes first and then re-evaluate. 

President Labow:  Mr. Roman.

Mr. Roman:  What are you expecting people to do now that do require because of the holiday season that they…are you just having them hold onto…

Mr. Canning:  We are taking the garbage.  Ever since Thanksgiving on, we’ve made it very clear that we are in a transition stage, we are taking what’s put out there right now.  We are going to continue to do so right through New Year’s and then at that point we’re going to start hitting our slow season and it’s a perfect time at that point to start saying okay your plastics one through seven.  It still amazes me, I get calls all the time, I didn’t know my dry cleaning bag is recyclable, my Styrofoam is recyclable, they’re all plastics one through seven.  They’re bulky items in some cases, they should be out in the recycling.   Your pizza boxes, your packaging.  If you are recycling properly, you know, a family of five is going to generate two maybe three bags of garbage for the week. 

Mr. Roman:  Is there anything we can put on the Town website that would be informative as far as either a website or a link that we can provide to people so that when they do have a question, it says look, just watch this video.

Mr. Canning:  Yes.

Mr. Roman:  I think that’s something because I for one didn’t know Styrofoam was recyclable.

Mr. Ferrante:  I didn’t know either.

Mr. Canning:  Hang with me, you’ll learn something new every day.  We’re in the process of that and I know that’s part of our ramp up, we already have Christie Stachnick working on a sample flyer.  We want to get it on Facebook, we want to get it out into our website, we really want to disseminate it.  We already offered Mr. Quinn to star in one of our Van Dam videos.  Seriously, we want to get a three to four minute video, not long, how this works, where to place your cans, what to do with your recyclables, what’s available.  We are really going to, we were planning on ramping that up right after Christmas because I didn’t want to inundate the whole town too much because everyone is just kind of getting used to okay here’s my new can, where do I place it, do I keep it within four feet.  I didn’t want to do the information overload.  We’re kind of hoping to wait for a couple of weeks and then start phase II.

President Labow:  I have a question, just a suggestion.  When you get to the point after the holidays, I think the best way to really get the information home to the parents is to actually introduce it to the students in the school.  You actually make them part of the process and it has an unbelievable affect because they will go home and say, Mom, Dad, you have to recycle this, recycle this and they can say this will save us money. 

Mr. Canning:  I know they have programs in the schools already, but they’re mandated.  We can see if we can piggyback on that or even send flyers home and…

President Labow:  It’s a little bit different.  If you do a video even if some children of some of the parents were so inclined, include them in a recycling video and they watch it more because their friends are involved.  Just make it a fun way to draw more attention.

Mr. Canning:  Yes.  It’s an excellent thought.  We’ve been having status meetings, last week we were having them every day.  This week, we were planning on having them twice this week, the weather is kind of messing us up.  I’m going to get to that in a minute.  The last part is in our can dissemination.  We ended up missing… our vendor missed about seven to ten residents, so we are taking care of those residents now.  The last concern we are getting, normal operations, we would have been well along this week.  A lot of people putting those tags on the cans, take me for recycling.  We just haven’t gotten to them this week.  The ice and snow this week has certainly put us back about a day or two and I don’t know how we are going to be tomorrow morning.  I anticipate with the weather being a little bit colder, we are going to be out salting and sanding again.  We are going to try to get to those recycling cans, we have just been asking people, be patient, it’s a big town, we’ll get there.

President Labow:  I want to say that last week I was waiting for them come, I had go out on an appointment because I really wanted to see them in action.  Then, when I left, I got down the street and saw that they were at the other end of Third Street, so I went down there and pulled on the side.  I got my camera out and was to take your picture.  It was so funny.  They were probably thinking who is this crazy lady taking pictures of us.  I did notice, as hard as they tried not to tip over the recycling cans, people have to understand you really need two to three feet on either side of your can and it’s…
Mr. Canning:  We are asking for four.  We can do it with less.

President Labow:  Yes.  Exactly, but a stunt that happened was yesterday going up and down the streets that people had their garbage can over here with the recycling can on the other side of the driveway, they had plenty of room.  I even told my husband, move them apart and I got home and my recycling was all in my driveway, the recycling truck hadn’t come yet so I had to pick it all up and this time we made sure we had it further apart. 

Mr. Canning:  The least of our complaints has been the service of the one arm bandit itself.  That’s been the highlight of it so far.  It’s been very efficient. 

President Labow:  Yes.  You kind of just learn what you can do and not do and I think the guys are doing an absolutely fantastic job.  Anybody has any questions or concerns or think you know…positive feedback always, always appreciated.

Mr. Canning:  We’ll take negative too.  I engage everybody.

President Labow:  We’ll take negative, but negative just sort of flows without any kind of encouraging positive.


Mr. Canning:  Speaking of negative feedback, we’re onto the snowstorm today.  This has been our third storm this year and we’re getting some complaints about the service between yesterday and today, part of it is
frustration because of the weather, part of it is legitimate.  I’ve directed both Mr. Lynch and Mr. Quinn, we’re going to have a DPW staff meeting on Friday, directed them that I want to move more towards the ICS system with our snow removal.  We tried a different method last year, with various results, some were good, some were bad.  I want something more consistent.  I’ve spoken to the Mayor about this, as a matter of fact, right before the meeting, I’m asking them for a plan and hopefully we’re going to be able to unveil that to Council within a week, by next Tuesday.

President Labow:  I saw that e-mail.  I thought that was a fantastic idea.

Mr. Canning:  We’re going to try to operate more along the lines of ICS and more strict fixed accountability of roots, so we can identify training inadequacies.  Not that today was a bad job, the guys really tried as best as they could and again there is a learning curve every winter and some areas in town we have some good successes and others, not so much.  We’re going adjust that and rectify it.

President Labow:  I thought it was really admirable of our staff, the fact that we have two huge collection weeks during the year, one is after Thanksgiving and the other is one is after Christmas.  We actually launched a new system on one of the two busiest days of the year and they just did an incredible job.  My hats off to you guys, Jimmy, great job and it wasn’t like, you know sometimes they’ll plan it for a slow time.  We jump right into the fire on one of the busiest weeks.

Mr. Canning:  Believe it or not, back in October was the kick off date originally, but we ended up with production delays and we didn’t want to wait another two months until January.

President Labow:  Absolutely 100 percent.  This week we got it during the ice storm, so it’s like, WOW, first the busiest week and then an ice storm.  You guys are really great.  I really appreciate it.

Mr. Canning:  Jim and Tim and his crew are doing a good job.

President Labow:  They are really doing a fantastic job.  Do you have any other…

Mr. Canning:  That’s it.

President Labow:  Very good.  Next on our Agenda, we have Old Business.  Seeing none.  New Business.  Seeing none.  Legal Matters. 




Mr. Semrau:  Yes.  First, the Municipal Excess Liability Fund put out a seminar in November where any elected official that takes the seminar can actually obtain a $250.00 credit towards a members insurance premium.  If the governing body would like, we could do that seminar before a meeting next year and then you’d be actually making money for the Township just by hearing the Ethics Seminar that the fund has put together.  I could come one nigh early, we could start and we could do that.

President Labow:  I would appreciate that.  Could you let us know what meeting times would be good for you and also is there a limit as to how many elected officials for that.

Mr. Semrau:  It would have to be elected officials. 

President Labow:  It has to be elected officials?

Mr. Semrau:  Yes.  Everyone on the governing body would be eligible for this $250.00. 

President Labow:  It has to be elected, okay.  Let me ask you this question, what about if they are were Board of Ed members?

Mr. Semrau: No.


President Labow:  No.

Mr. Semrau:  No because this is your membership in the insurance fund.

President Labow:  I just wanted to make sure because if it was possible to invite…could we also invite other towns to come and let you know or just do it for us?

Mr. Semrau:  Yes.  We could do that as well, actually.  Then we could do that sort of on an off meeting night.  We can ask the fund to make arrangements to come out and do sort of a regional session for any other municipalities too.  It’s your choice, whatever the governing body…I always find it’s a little bit of an advantage to just do it right here, you’re here, get it done in about 35 to 40 minutes…

President Labow:  Do it right here, okay…just do it right here, just wanted to ask just in case.

Mr. Semrau:  …you start your meeting and you’re already done.

President Labow:  Did anybody go to the League and were they able to take the class?  Mr. Staszak already did so.  Anyone else?  Seeing none.  Then I would think it would be fantastic if you could do that. 

Mr. Semrau:  We’ll coordinate that in January or February. 

President Labow:  Yes.  Definitely do that.  I would very much appreciate it.  Do we still have the online certification possibility?

Mr. Semrau:  I think it will be made available at some point early next year even though they did last year.

President Labow:  I did it last year.  I think most of the Council did it.  I think we had everybody do it.  I would really love to have 100 percent participation, so that would be one way to do it.  Thank you, Fred.

Mr. Semrau:  We’ve been talking about the Cobblestone, affordable housing site, and the due diligence.  We are now expecting to receive the reports to see if the site could in fact be suitable for this site.  As you know, we filed condemnation complaint and it has been stayed subject to this issue about whether or not the site is suitable for development and of course evaluation issues.  We should have an update for you by the next meeting as to whether or not the site is suitable and if so to what extent.  We’ll have that at the next meeting.  Just, finally because it is toward the end of the year, I just want to, there are certain members, employees that are here, I just want to say thanks to the Administration, they’ve been terrific to work with and Sherry’s Department, we’ve worked on a number of foreclosures.  We get questions, good questions, they’re right on top of everything and they have been very terrific to work with.  To address any legal issues that come up, they are really able to identify things and appreciate that.  The same with Lisa’s Department, anything we ask of you, even if we need to get something in 5 to twelve, you are really okay with us.  I just want to say thanks, thanks for all of their cooperation during the year.  Thank you.

President Labow:  I would like to say thank you to your office because every time I have a question, I call up and I am able to get legal information and advice that I can count on and everybody is just very accommodating and very pleasant.  I thank you very much.  It’s really wonderful to know that because as an elected official you want to make sure that any information that you are putting out there, that you have the correct information and I do appreciate it.  I will appreciate getting the answers to some of those questions because they are really important.  I want to find out.  We have Council Reports.  We have Mr. Ferrante, would you give us your reports please.


Environmental Committee - none
Library Board Liaison
Lake Issues - none
Mr. Ferrante:  The only item I have, I don’t know if it was brought up last week about Scott Davin, the Library Director has left.

President Labow:  Yes.

Mr. Ferrante:  The Assistant Director is replacing him for the time being until the Board decides on a new Director.  That’s all I have.


President Labow:  Thank you.  We also have Mr. Mania is not here this evening for the Planning Board or Senior Citizen Report.  Mr. Nicastro, can we have…

Senior Citizen Liaison - none
Planning Board Report - none

Safety Committee Liaison - none
Open Space Committee Report - none
Mr. Nicastro:  I have nothing to report on either.

President Labow:  Boy, you guys are not talkative tonight.  Next one is Mr. Perkins.

Economic Development Committee Report - none
Legislative Committee Report - none
Board of Health Report - none
Mr. Perkins:  Nothing to report, Madam President.

President Labow:  You’re breaking my heart.  Mr. Roman, you’ve got to have something.

Board of Education Liaison Report - none
Recreation Liaison Report - none
Mr. Roman:  Nothing to report.

President Labow:  Oh, come on, you had Candy Land this weekend.

Mr. Roman:  I wasn’t there.

President Labow:  I was there, very briefly.  Candy Land was a huge success.  They had 600 attendees, I believe.  It was a phenomenal event.  Absolutely excellent.

Mr. Roman:  I’m going to adopt a small Philippine kid so I can go there next time.

President Labow:  You’re so bad. I have to say, everybody was dressed in different costumes for the event and it was really a lot of fun.  The next person, Mr. Staszak, MOTV.

MOTV Committee Liaison - none
Mr. Staszak:  Nothing this report at this time. 

TNR Program - none

President Labow:  TNR, I have nothing to report.  I’m going to make just a side comment as a report for events.  Kiwanis of Mount Olive had our breakfast with Santa Saturday morning at the Budd Lake Fire House.  We had some local vendors, as well our attorney’s office help us with sponsorship. We had Tom from State Farm, we had Matt Johnston from the attorney’s office on Park Place.  We had Charlie from Advance Builders and our fourth one…  I apologize, we had Clown Around give a gift certificate and we had a huge success in terms of turnout.  We had about 300 people there.  We had a lot of pancakes.  A lot of kids had a really great time.  They had the new fire truck out front for everybody to see. Mr. Shields was there to help us out and his mom and I thank you very much as well as Miss Pignataro and some other members from Budd Lake were there to help us make this event a huge success.  The reason why I am bringing it up during Council Reports is 50 percent of our net proceeds is going to Mount Playmore.  I’m hoping that maybe if other groups, if they have events and if they want to help contribute, that would be a wonderful, wonderful thing.  We’re up to our public portion.  Anyone from the public would like to say anything?  Any comments?  No.  Phyllis is looking at me.  No.  Final Council Comments please.  Mr. Ferrante.



Mr. Ferrante:  Nothing.

President Labow:  Mr. Nicastro.

Mr. Nicastro:  Nothing.

President Labow:  Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Perkins:  Nothing. 

President Labow:  Mr. Roman.

Mr. Roman:  Nothing.

President Labow:  Mr. Staszak, can I count on you?

Mr. Staszak:  Nothing.

President Labow:  Mr. Shields, would like to make a final comment?  No.  Nothing?

President Labow:  You’re hired.  I have nothing.  May I have a motion to adjourn?

ADJOURNMENT - Motion made and seconded. All in favor, none opposed, the meeting was adjourned at 8:53 p.m.

Colleen Labow, Council President


I, Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes are a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on December 17, 2013.                                                                                              

Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk



Mailing Address:
Mount Olive Township
Post Office Box 450
Budd Lake, NJ 07828

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Mount Olive Township
204 Flanders-Drakestown Road
Budd Lake, N.J. 07828

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