Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
April 26 , 2005

The Regular Public Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to Order at 7:31 pm by Council President Greenbaum with the Pledge of Allegiance.



According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been given to the Mount Olive Chronicle. Notice has been posted at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive Township, New Jersey and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL Present: Mr. Buell, Mrs. Labow, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum
Absent: Mr. Mund and Mr. Perkins

ALSO PRESENT: Mayor De La Roche; Bob Casey, Acting Business Administrator; Sherry Jenkins, CFO;
John Dorsey, Township Attorney; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk.

President Greenbaum: At this point, Colleen are you ready?

Ms. Labow: Yes, I’m ready.

Presentation to Girls Scouts for Cookie Fundraiser for Soldiers
• Emily Rochotte
• Emily McCleary
• Danii Burns

President Greenbaum: The meeting is yours. Presentation to Girl Scouts for Cookie Fundraiser for Soldiers.

Ms. Labow: Thank you, Mr. Greenbaum. Ladies and Gentlemen, girls, tonight I would like to give Certificates of Merit to these three young ladies in Girl Scout Troop 494 for selling Girl Scout Cookies to be sent overseas to our troops. The Girl Scout organization started selling their cookies for fundraising more than eighty years ago. Customers not only get great tasting cookies, but they are also getting a sense of well-being because they are directly supporting the girls in their community. This year, these three girls brought their good-will feeling of supporting the Girl Scouts to a new level when they offered their customers to go beyond just helping their troop. They offered their customers to bring a little bit of back home tradition to our troops overseas. When they started selling their annual spring Girl Scout Cookie drive this year, they decided they wanted to try something a little different and ask friends, neighbors and their parent’s co-workers if they would purchase boxes of cookies to send to our soldiers. They had also sent notices to the Mount Olive Chronicle, the Netcong Mount Olive Weekly, and the Reporter newspapers. They hung notices at the Post Office, Municipal Building, Senior Citizens Center and supermarkets. They also sent notices home to all the Middle School students. I had read about their Cookies for Soldiers Overseas drive in the Mount Olive Chronicle and I immediately called Mrs. Rochotte to place an order for this project. While I was speaking with her, I asked her to let me know what their final totals were and I would like to invite the girls to the Council meeting to be recognized for their magnanimous effort to bring a little bit of back home to our troops who put their lives on the line every day so that we can be safe here in the USA. This afternoon, they delivered 181 boxes of cookies to the Armory in Morristown to be shipped overseas. I am sure that our troops will be quite surprised when they open up their packages with these cookies, a taste of home brought all the way to their camps. We have some veterans right here on the dais whom I’m sure can testify to the fact that packages from home are always more than welcome and help to make their time away from their loved ones just a bit easier to bear. Councilman Perkins, who is not here this evening, Councilman Guenther and Mayor De La Roche I’m sure would all agree that this gesture by these three young ladies will be greatly appreciated by our soldiers. At this time, I would like Mayor De La Roche and Councilman Guenther to join me here at the podium to hand out the certificates and if Councilman Perkins was here, he’d be helping out as well.

Mayor De La Roche: This is a Certificate of Merit for Emily Rochotte. In recognition of your time and effort given to Cookies for Soldiers Overseas Projects, this certificate is presented to Emily Rochotte on this 26th day of April in the year 2005 by the Mount Olive Council in Mount Olive Township, Morris County, New Jersey, signed by Robert Greenbaum and certified by Lisa Lashway. Congratulations. Clapping….

Mr. Guenther: Next is, pretty much the same thing, Certificate of Merit. In recognition of your time and effort given to Cookies for Soldiers Overseas Projects, this certificate is presented to Emily McCleary on this 26th day Mr. Guenther(cont’d): of April in the year 2005 by the Mount Olive Council in Mount Olive Township, Morris County, New Jersey, signed by Robert Greenbaum and certified by Lisa Lashway. Clapping….

Ms. Labow: Last but not least, we have a Certificate of Merit… In recognition of your time and effort given to Cookies for Soldiers Overseas Projects, this certificate is presented to Danii Burns on this 26th day of April in the year 2005 by the Mount Olive Council in Mount Olive Township, Morris County, New Jersey, signed by Robert Greenbaum and certified by Lisa Lashway. Clapping…. Thank you for helping. Thank you.

President Greenbaum: On behalf of the rest of the Council, the Administration and the Township, we thank you very much for the good will that you’ve done and that you bring to Mount Olive Township. Clapping….

Mt. Olive Child Care & Learning Center

President Greenbaum: Okay, moving on with the agenda, next item is Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center. Let the record reflect that Mr. Rattner is stepping down off of this issue. We’re going to have a presentation….Barbara and Gail, do you both want to just state your names and addresses for the record?

Barbara Melveger, President of the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center: And with me is Gail Reuther, who is the Executive Director of the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center, and we have Mike Cannilla here this evening, who is our architect from Nadaskay Kopelson Architects. Before they begin, I just want to briefly say, as you all know, we’re here this evening to discuss the possibility of occupying the old Library for the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center. This will allow us to consolidate our programs, save a good deal of money in the long run, and increase some of the programming that we currently do, to add some new programs. I’m going to turn it over shortly to both Gail and to Mike, but before I do, I just want to publicly say thank you to Mayor De La Roche for the lovely article, letter to the editor, in the Chronicle and for your support and all the wonderful things you said about the Center and about me. Thank you. Now, I’m going to turn it over to Mike and to Gail.

Gail Reuther: I also wanted to just take a moment to thank you for allowing us to come before you this evening. With your permission, a couple of months ago, we did ask Mike Cannilla, of Nadaskay Kopelson, to take a look at the old Library building and he has been working on that and has a visual to show tonight and it will describe the project and would be happy to answer questions. We’re hoping to be able to move ahead with this, because, as you know, we currently are occupying the old Flanders School building and the Board of Education, the current landlord, has given us until June 30th 2006 to occupy that space and after that, it’s unlikely that that space will be available. So, let me turn it over to Mike at this point. Thank you.

Mike Cannilla: Good evening Mayor, Council…again, my name is Mike Cannilla, I’m with Nadaskay Kopelson Architects in Morristown. We’ve been working with Mount Olive Child Care Center over the years, evaluating opportunities for facilities as well as work on their existing building, as required. We have a vast background in child care and health care throughout the state of New Jersey and the tri-state area and, again, have been working with Mount Olive Child Care for quite some time. So, when Gail called us….Gail and Barbara called Allen and asked if we could come up and take a look at this potential facility, traipsed through, I think it was 30 inches of snow that day, to walk around the building.

President Greenbaum: I’m sorry, I’m having difficulty hearing you and I’m sure the audience is having difficulty as well, I don’t mean to interrupt.

Mr. Cannilla: I’m sorry, is that better? Okay, anyway, I came up, as well as my engineer, to take a look at the building on one of the days when you had a little bit of snow up here, and did some evaluation. I can talk to that issue a little bit, I’m hoping….I wasn’t sure of the layout of the room in the Council Chambers, but I’m hoping that we’ll be able to see this. What I have is a brief graphic, from an architectural standpoint, representing the existing facility and I’ll talk a little bit about the infrastructure and so-forth. What Mount Olive Child Care is looking to do is they’ve ascribed to consolidate the two facilities that they currently occupy by June of next year, as well as accommodate some additional programs that they’re looking to incorporate some expanded before and after care into the facility. When we did an analysis of the available square footage, we can’t quite accommodate all of that in the existing building, but with a very moderate addition into the facility, we can accommodate their existing needs as well as future expansion for programs. The existing building, as you see, for those of you who are very familiar, I’m sure, with the Library, it’s basically one very large open space with office space and support area in the back. The original Library, the entire Library, is what we have indicated here in the rose color, that was the original facility. There were two…three additions actually put on, the primary core stack space, which is this area in the middle. There was an addition put on here, I believe it was about ten years ago and also an expansion at this side of the building at the same time. At the time the facility Mr. Cannilla(cont’d): was built and at the time of the renovations, there was no significant gas available, so the facility is heated by electric heat and that has created a little bit of a challenge for us both now and in the future. There is now gas available and that’s going to be some of the issues that we talk about and some of what we have evaluated for the facility going forward. Obviously, it’s a little bit more cost effective to heat, due to the location on the hill and it does get cold up here in the winter, so the gas would certainly be more cost effective. The air handling equipment now, as my engineer has evaluated, has effectively reached, technically, the end of its calculated life. They run twenty to twenty-five years and so the air handling equipment that’s in there that accommodates the air conditioning in the building is getting close to the end of its’ useful life. It may run for another two, three, five years, but it…during the renovation, it seems to make sense to renovate that to accommodate new air handler heating and cooling units with gas connections, so we wouldn’t have to have a disruption later in the future. Electric heat is also not as desirable for children, it’s….baseboard electric heat gets too hot and with the kids on the floor, particularly with the smaller children, it’s not a desirable air system, or heating and ventilation system. What we’ve looked at doing is to, with very reasonable renovation cost, with the exception of the infrastructure, do moderate renovations to the interior of the core of the existing building and we’ve developed a schedule that we can accommodate that, or we believe we can accommodate that by the June 30th deadline of 2006. We have options of the expansion to slip that a little bit, because starting towards the end of the year, 2005 calendar year, may be challenging to get construction started as we enter winter, we may have to slide that back, depending on sequencing, to get the addition accomplished, but we can get the bulk of the area renovated, including air conditioning and infrastructure. Obviously, the sprinklers would have to be renovated and so-forth. There are sprinklers in the building, but we need to modify them….expanding the capacity of that. Once you’re talking about child care, you’re effectively talking about an institutional use, because small children are not capable of following directions for fire drills and so-forth, so it’s treated with a higher level of safety and expansion of the sprinkler system and so-forth is very critical for this type of a facility. Fortunately, because of the square footage of the space, it breaks up very well into approximately 600 to 700 square foot rooms and that’s basically an ideal module for child care, based on the numbers of students/pupils that the Department of Health and Department of Education like to see in a classroom. They use a model of about 35 square feet per child and in the older classrooms they work up to about 16 to 20 children in a large classroom. So, we’ve been able to break this up into spaces that are approximately that size, and given the flexibility to move children around. Some of the most significant renovations to the building are actually quite moderate and that would be substantial plumbing on the first floor, which doesn’t exist. There’s two small toilet rooms in the building now. We would obviously need to accommodate toilet rooms for all the classrooms, as that’s become standard now in child care, and that’s probably the biggest thing that we have to deal with from a plumbing standpoint. Obviously, all the new facilities for staff would need accessible toileting facilities, as required, for any construction or renovation at this point. So, the toilet rooms that exist would have to be renovated to accommodate barrier free accessibility. The building is extremely well-suited to child care, it’s a single story building, which is not always found and it’s really desirable, it accommodates all barrier free requirements in any child care facility because of the inability of children to evacuate or follow directions in the event of need of that evacuation. They always like to see a single story facility, as well as general safety for the children. It’s much easier to get around, there’s large spaces in the building which are nice because it gives them the ability to have indoor play or they call it gross motor rooms, indoor play areas at times when the weather isn’t cooperative outside.

From the audience: Michael, would you just briefly explain in a little bit more detail how we plan to handle the bathrooms in the classrooms?

Mr. Cannilla: Yes. Children learn by seeing other children, so having the toilet rooms, which is now really a standard for any child care, within the classroom, so that they can actually see the toilet room from where they are. There are scheduled times when the teacher will say, okay, everybody is going to the bathroom before meals to wash up, and at scheduled times during the day, so things become very….just from a scheduling standpoint, children get a rhythm in their daily activities and it works out very well for them. As soon as they have to leave the classroom and follow a line down the hall to a larger toilet room with multiple fixtures in it, it becomes ineffective for training children. So, this has become industry standard now for any child care facility, to have an individual toilet room or toilet room shared between rooms so that they…..

From the audience: That was what I really was getting at, was the fact that, in order to save some money, we’ve chosen to have them between two rooms.

Mr. Cannilla: And toileting rooms between two rooms are actually done that way for a reason, it allows multiple staff from multiple locations to assist in monitoring of children in toileting facilities. Any questions?

Ms. Labow: You said there was going to be an addition?

Mr. Cannilla: Yes. This line back here represents about a 1,700 square foot addition that we would look to append at the back of the building. Again, the sequencing of that will depend, to some extent, on the weather. It’s very critical that this phase one move forward in a somewhat expeditious fashion, to try and get something accomplished and actually built, almost from today, in twelve months, so there’s a little bit of opportunity to furnish it before occupying the space, is an aggressive schedule in today’s market, but achievable.

Ms. Labow: And what’s that addition for, office or….?

Mr. Cannilla: No, there’s classrooms there. Ultimately, the child….the infants will go towards the back of the building and the expanded programs will be towards the front. That’s why those two rooms don’t have toileting facilities, they don’t use them for infants and toddler, but it is two classrooms, as well as some storage and a meeting room for the staff.

Ms. Labow: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Any other questions? I have several. Jim, did you have anything? Bernie, anything? Mayor, you’re now onboard with the use of this building for Mount Olive Child Care, is that correct?

Mayor De La Roche: I’m waiting to hear the entire project.

President Greenbaum: Okay, what more of the project are you waiting to hear?

Mayor De La Roche: What more?

President Greenbaum: Yes.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, this is the first I’m hearing about an addition to the building. Originally, I understood that the building was adequate for the needs for the Mount Olive Child Care Center, and that was the big selling point, I believe, and the big argument point. So, I’m waiting to hear what the addition is about and the need for it, and how it is…..

Mrs. Melveger: Gail, would you like to address that a little bit…some of the new programming we’re thinking of doing?

Mrs. Reuther: Yes, we basically are looking to expand some services to the community. One of the things that we’re looking to do is to incorporate intergenerational programming with the children, in the facility. In addition, we’re looking to do special needs child care or mildly ill, whatever one seems to be….I’m not sure that we could do both, given the facility, but one of the those would be added. In the addition section, would be the way to have the infants and the young toddlers accommodated because one of the challenges now is maintaining two different sites, so being able to put them together in one site makes a lot of sense. We’d be looking to expand the number of children served in that facility by….I would say by about 30 to 35 children, and with a greater number of children being accommodated at one site, you know, there’s an efficiency that is gained by doing that, as well as meeting increased needs in the community.

Mayor De La Roche: And what precisely are you consolidating?

Mrs. Reuther: The infant and toddler program, which is already housed in the child care wing of the Flanders United Methodist Church, and the landlord for that site has extended our lease on an as-needed basis. The lease was actually up for renewal February 1st of 2005 and because of the fact that we’ve been long-term tenants in that building, been there for ten years and, you know, they said well, you’ve been good tenants and you’ve worked with us, we’ll work with you until you can relocate. So that’s, you know, the program that currently houses approximately 21 infants and toddlers and then, of course, the other site being the old Flanders School where we have the pre-schoolers from 2 ½ to 3 years and through before and after kindergarten services.

Mayor De La Roche: Okay.

Mrs. Melveger: Can I just add to that? I think, from not only an efficiency standpoint, but also being more cost effective, and to be perfectly blunt, we’ll be able to afford it better if we can consolidate all of our programs. It just makes it much more affordable. Right now, it’s extremely costly to have them in different sites.

Mayor De La Roche: No, no, I understand that, it’s just that this is the first I was hearing it, basically.

Mrs. Melveger: Well, when we took a look at the layout and what we can and what we could do in the building, our feeling was if we could add the additional space, it would give us that flexibility to add on some of the newer programs also, that Gail talked about. There is a need in the community for special needs child care and there’s also a need for mildly ill child care, so we have to take a look at which we can start with, but I think that those are some needs that certainly we can meet in the future.

Mrs. Reuther: I think…another word, you know, when I talk about intergenerational, it really means both ends of the spectrum, it’s seniors, but it’s also….one of the things that we’ve been doing over the past….I would say, three or four years, is working with a lot of the youth, we’ve been involving youth at Middle School and youth at the High School and, in fact, have started to build in some programming which occurs with the younger children where they come periodically and do specific activities and projects with the children, and the value of that to children and families is really beyond words because it adds a component that is over and above what just, you know, the general staff child caring assistance would provide. So, we would be certainly looking to continue that and having the additional space, particularly that one room on the side that’s rose colored would allow for quite a bit of that.

President Greenbaum: I had several questions. I think that the work that Mount Olive Child Care does for the community is outstanding and a needed program.

Mrs. Reuther: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: But my support for this project goes beyond what Mount Olive Child Care does for the community, it goes to the use of the building and the cost associated with the building itself. Currently there is no need for that building that has been expressed to me, which outweighs the value that Mount Olive Child Care would get out of leasing that building. The building obviously would remain the property of the township and would remain available for use by the township pursuant to an agreement that would be entered into, obviously, that’s not what we’re looking to do, but that is one of the concerns which was expressed. Two other concerns, which weighed heavily in my decision making process, which I would like you to address are: Number one, out of the renovation cost that you’ve identified, how much of those costs would be necessarily incurred irrespective of the fact that the building is going to be used for child care? In other words, if the township were to maintain that building for any use, what type of costs would the township have to incur? In other words, heating system, roof, whatever it may be, that’s question number one. Question number two is a concern which was raised for use of that building by other groups during timeframes when Mount Olive Child Care is not using it for child care services. In other words, if the PAL wanted to come in and have a meeting room, is that going to be available? That was a major plus in terms of the presentation that you guys have given all along. So, I would like you to address both of those issues, please.

Mrs. Melveger: I’ll address question number two first, and I think I can speak for the entire Board and Gail. Mount Olive Child Care Center has always been a very sharing organization and I believe that we had stated, on the record, early on that we would be willing to certainly make our space available when we were not, you know, utilizing it, in those areas where we can, for other organizations for the township’s use, we’re certainly willing to share our space and we have a couple of areas, as you can see, a playroom and a large muscle area, we’ve purposely chosen those types of areas with other uses in mind. When we do our child abuse prevention program, our parenting program, currently we don’t have adequate space. This will give us adequate space for that and certainly would provide adequate space, should it be needed for a meeting of some other organization and we could certainly work that out.

Mrs. Reuther: And I guess also, again, to expand upon the…with youth programming, and I know that, you know, there’s certainly a need for the youth in the community to have places, appropriate places and spaces to go, and we would be, you know….we’ve done some programming with youth, as I indicated earlier, and would be delighted to continue doing programming with that. It’s amazing to me, again, how much it builds self-esteem in Middle School and High School youth, when they’re working with children and we would welcome the opportunity to be able to work collaboratively in that regard.

Mr. Cannilla: I think that actually both of those…a lot of that space need talks to the addition. If the addition is not part of the project, then these large community spaces would not be as available, they would have to be utilized as classroom spaces and that would not…that would end up, as a result, mitigating some of that. It would be available, but it wouldn’t be available as an open, as well as functioning as an open space, as it will be… we’re proposing it today. To get to the first question, because of the rehabilitation code in the State of New Jersey, any change of use in this building is going to institute some upgrades of the existing facilities, from a code standpoint. Just from an infrastructure standpoint, and I’ll talk about heating and sprinkling, because Mr. Cannilla(cont’d): those are the two that are the easiest to get our arms around. As I’ve pointed out, we are looking at a building that the heating equipment, or the ventilation equipment I should say, in this case, is very near the end of its technical useful life. They say that 20 years, 25 years is the end of its useful life from a warranty and technical standpoint. Obviously, equipment has become much more efficient since that timeframe and you’re going to get much benefit out of replacement of that. In the near term, that equipment is going to have to be replaced….today, tomorrow, two years, I’m not sure of that. Those two disciplines alone, plumbing and heating and ventilation, air conditioning, probably make up 30 to 35 to 40% of the renovation costs for what we’re talking about here, and that’s why it would want to be done simultaneously to the work. It could….we could go out there and do the work early and then have to do some of this replacement later, but it just doesn’t make any sense to disrupt the facility at a later date, but you’re really talking about quite a substantial portion of the work being in those two trades alone, the elimination of the electric heat and the replacement of the air conditioning and ventilation equipment, as well as sprinkling.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone have any follow-up questions? Colleen.

Ms. Labow: I just want to make a comment. I know, from being on the Library Board, that system has been band-aided together for several years now, and they had said that if they had to stay in there another summer, they were going to have to replace the whole entire thing.

President Greenbaum: I would just like to see a straw poll as to those who are inclined to move forward with this project at this time, to move it towards a….I guess, a memorandum of understanding.

Mrs. Melveger: Before you do, could we just take one or two minutes to talk about time frame, because it’s…Mike has put together just a little timeline to give you an idea of how tight our time frame really is and, you know, how much time is really of the essence here.

President Greenbaum: That’s fine.

Mrs. Reuther: Thank you.

Mr. Cannilla: And this is going to be….I’ll have to describe it, because it’s going to be impossible for some of the distant Board Members and the public to see. Starting backwards, to some extent, using realistic time frames, but starting backwards, and I’ll ignore what I’m calling phase two for the moment, but realistically, we have to be in there on or about June 30th. I say….June 30th happens to be a Friday, so start up Monday, on the 3rd of July.

Ms. Labow: Of 2005?

Mr. Cannilla: Of 2006, okay…..which is…July 3rd is the Monday. In order to accomplish that, we would typically see construction being completed….certificate of occupancy completed somewhere about 20….two to three weeks before you want to occupy, in order to get the furnishings in and all the equipment in place and ready to move in. At best, the renovation….we’re looking at 150 days, which is about 6 ½ months. It’s not actually substantive interior renovation to the building, the actual replacement of flooring and ceilings and the like, which is not a huge project, it doesn’t really take that long. The problem, as she pointed out, HVAC equipment is a long lead time item, it’s at best - 12 weeks, at worst – it’s something longer than that and with all the school work going on currently and the construction in the State of New Jersey, which is phenomenal, it is going to take some time to order that equipment, and that’s your long lead time item. So, 6 to 7 months of construction period is certainly conservative, not unachievable, but it is conservative to get this work done. Any bidding process, and that would take us out to November, the middle of November….from the middle of November until the beginning of June. The bidding process for any project, realistically is four weeks in order to get viable contractors that are interested in the work, and again, there’s a lot of work coming up particularly at the end of the year and it’s going to be….the earlier we get that process done, to beat the contractors at the end of the year, because there are some deadlines looming out there for contractors at the end of the year, is going to be beneficial to it. So, that takes us to the early part of October, construction documents will take a bit of time, we’re looking at 60 days to get all the documentation for the, again, infrastructure upgrades and so-forth, which takes us to the beginning of July, design….verifying the programming, make sure we meet all the code requirements and so-forth is about a month and getting all that program verification. So, we really only have about a month from June 1st to July 1st to get the nitty gritty done prior to actually starting our construction document phase, and it’s an aggressive schedule, we need to keep the ball rolling in order to meet….in order to get to June 30th.

President Greenbaum: So, Barbara, what’s your pleasure?

Mrs. Melveger: My pleasure….that’s a loaded question. My pleasure would be for the Council and the Mayor to sign on and for the Council to sign the memo of understanding and I understand…does it have to go to another public hearing, is that correct? Or are we okay tonight, I don’t know.

Mr. Dorsey: As I understand this, the township is going….this is a township owned property, therefore, any reconstruction of this building is going to have to be by public bidding in accordance with Title 40. That means the township, as I understand it, is supposed to finance, at least initially, the cost of this, which means the township has to adopt a bond ordinance, which takes at least a month from beginning to end, and you can’t get to that point until we either have very certain estimates of cost, where we had taken bids for the project. See, as I understand it, you are going to pay rent and the rent is, in some way, to be related to the cost that the township will undertake to finance the project…..generally correct. So, we can’t really proceed specifically until we either have a relatively finite construction cost, or we take bids for the project.

President Greenbaum: Mr. Casey, did you have something?

Mr. Casey: Yes. John, is it at all possible…..well, I think John’s right in terms of our original discussion, was that it would be a long term lease out with the building and part of the concern that exactly what John’s referring to is just looking at your number, if it’s $1,075,000 and we do the 20 years, and you start looking at the current rates and stuff, you’re looking at about $80,000 a year worth of interest costs. So, one of the issues that I think we need to have an understanding, from your standpoint, is we can give you some numbers, is whether these numbers are within your financial operation’s capacity, and I know at one time you were talking about funding some of that through grant programs, etc, but, you know, we’re looking….given the numbers you gave here, you’re running through a standard, you know, time, you know, length of 15 years, to what I think I used…I used what I was using, as I would use $1,075,000 at 4% over twenty years.

Mrs. Melveger: I thought the memo of understanding spread out our payments over a 25 year payout. If that’s possible, that would be great.

Mr. Casey: Well, if we do…..that was….see, the issue that we….we had two or three scenarios in the memo, so we’re looking between 75,000 and 85,000 and 90,000 in that…depending on how we frame it, so one of the issues that goes back to the Child Care is are we still in the same ballpark, given those types of numbers, and did you make your estimates based upon prevailing wage, or did you use something else?

Mrs. Melveger: Yes.

Mr. Cannilla: We used prevailing wage numbers, because most of the work that we deal with is along those lines.

Mr. Casey: Okay.

Mr. Cannilla: That’s in current industry matters.

Mr. Casey: For the governing body to get into a memorandum of understanding, we have to have an understanding as to at least the ballpark for the finances, so that everybody is on the same page. So, we need to work a little further on that and I can….we can work those in, part of the other issue that we had a concern with is, and I think the governing body has to look at this, is whether….if we do this understanding, is the question of that addition, because the original understanding was, you know, we would retain access and rights to the original building should, you know, over the two year capability of reclaim, what our original deal was, but that…you know, the original addition I thought was simply going to be a small area that was set aside for plumbing fixtures and now you’ve got an addition which, in fact, is usable space, which in and of itself is just a change in concept. The governing body has to be careful as to how they want to look at that addition to the facility and whether you want to include that in this whole program.

Mr. Dorsey: Well, you know, applying what we learned about concession stands, whatever addition they place on this building is going to be owned by the township.

Mrs. Melveger: That’s correct.

Mr. Casey: That’s correct. As long as everybody is on the same page on that, that it’s owned by the township….

Mrs. Melveger: The other thing, for your consideration, I don’t know if it can be done or not, would be to look at it from the point of view of a tenant build-out and if that were the case and we could control it, we could save 25% and many months of time.

Mr. Dorsey: No, wait a minute, I don’t understand that concept.

Mr. Casey: Tenant build-out is we lease them out the building with the understanding that they would make certain improvements at their expense.

Mr. Dorsey: Well, then of course the town….

Mrs. Melveger: And then the town lends us the money.

Mr. Dorsey: Wait a minute, I want to see whether they understand what you’re saying. The tenant build-out would be that the township would not finance the improvement. You would then have to finance the improvement yourself.

Mrs. Melveger: Well, as I understand it, there would be a way that the township could perhaps lend the money also, so that this could be structured that way, I don’t…you know, I’m just….

Mr. Dorsey: Well, wait a minute, the only way the township can loan $1,075,000….is that what we’re talking about? if it floats a bond ordinance.

Mrs. Melveger: I understand that.

Mr. Dorsey: Without a bond ordinance, as far as I know, unless we can deplete the surplus down to about $1 million, so that the only way the township can finance this in the typical way it would, would be by way of a bond ordinance. Now, it’s wonderful if you have some way, independent of the township, to finance it, that may indeed permit you to save certain money, but I suspect it won’t because this is going to be publicly owned property and prevailing wage is going to apply no matter what. I don’t see any way to do this without a bond ordinance.

Mrs. Melveger: Okay.

Mr. Dorsey: Bob, do you?

Mr. Casey: No. I think what you’re referring to is you were hoping to go to the Utilities Authority and then we would….but see the moment we become backers of the bonds, then John’s point is we’re still backers of the bonds and we still end up being….

Mrs. Melveger: Well, that’s true, you would be, that’s correct.

Mr. Casey: You know, so we can’t avoid the issue that’s going to be basically done on prevailing wage and I think from what the architect….if he uses those numbers, I’m not sure how much you’re really going to save today. When you start talking about HVAC and plumbing and electrical and all those big items, there really isn’t often that much difference in the trade cost between union and non-union on the big jobs anyway.

Mrs. Melveger: Okay, what further do you need from us in order to sign the memo of understanding?

Mr. Dorsey: Well, what we really need are cost figures for the construction that we can depend upon and you can depend upon, because everybody is going to be bound into those numbers.

Mrs. Melveger: Is it possible to sign the memo of understanding so that we can go ahead and get you more refined information and then do the bond?

Mr. Dorsey: Well, that really…..what we’re really talking about here is like two memorandums of agreement. I mean, what I think you’re suggesting, probably not knowing exactly what you’re suggesting is that the township authorize, in a very general manner, you to proceed with the understanding that nothing can be finalized until you do have the right numbers, whatever the right numbers are.

Mrs. Melveger: Yes, that’s essentially what I am asking. Before we, you know, spend any more money to finalize all of this information, we need some, you know, some idea that this will, in fact, occur.

Ms. Labow: It seems like they can’t go further until we give that understanding, is that true?

Mr. Dorsey: Well, you know, I don’t know exactly, I mean, I don’t think they’re represented by an attorney tonight, but I think really what we’re talking about, would be a resolution by the township Council that they’ve heard their presentation, that ultimately and subject to finalization of cost figures and the ability of the township to finance it by way of a bond ordinance, they are authorized to proceed, with the township’s authorization. The end result would then be a final, you call it a memorandum of agreement, in this case it’s going to be very much a lease. I mean, I understand what you want, it could be simply by a resolution tonight, if you like, essentially committing yourselves to the future.

Mr. Casey: I think before we go that far, though, we need to sit down and put the…..let’s assume it’s $1,075,000 for a start point, and we can work some numbers and structure that out, so that everybody can see what that….at that level, what the structure is. If, in fact, their estimates come in at a different number, at least we will have established proforma to be used forward, so we can readily enough put that together and bring that back to the governing body, so you can see what those numbers laid out… they see those numbers lay out, on that agreement, so you’ll have some understanding how it comes together. This is the issue that, I mean, these numbers just came in and the issue that we were concerned with, is this question of the expansion and how that ties in with the understanding whatever they do with that expansion, becomes part of the lease, becomes part of the reclaim of the township, should in fact that ever occur. So, we can meet and relatively easily take the concept agreement we had three months ago, flush it out, put some alternates in there, and see how it comes up. So, then you’ll have numbers to look at.

President Greenbaum: What I’m going to do is to carry the discussion to the next public meeting. I’m going to ask Mr. Dorsey to prepare a resolution along the lines that we’ve discussed. In the meantime, you can meet with the Administration, so that Bob can square away his concerns and put into writing, for us to consider, the economics that are going to be involved in this proposal. So….

Mr. Dorsey: Mr. Casey threw out the number of $80,000….is that a number you’re prepared to pay the township on an annual basis?

Mrs. Melveger: We’ve….yes.

Mr. Dorsey: Because that would probably….and $1,075,000, Bob…that probably breaks out to something like $50,000 for interest the first year and the balance would be application againt principle, don’t you think?

Mr. Casey: Well, yes, what I did is a simple straight line draw down.

Mr. Dorsey: I understand.

Mr. Casey: But the issue is going to be, as we were talking, is that one of the things we have to mention to them is that we’re going to enter into an agreement, they’re going to have to pay their….they don’t know this yet, but we’re going to have to have that first payment up front. We’re going to have to use that first payment as leverage as down payment for the bond.

President Greenbaum: Those issues need to be flushed out before next week.

Mr. Casey: Those things have to be flushed out before we go forward.

President Greenbaum: Before the next public meeting. Is everyone in agreement generally with the principle that’s been proposed here?

Mr. Dorsey: Hey Bob, you know, there is….there are some circumstances in which the Division of Local Government will let you do a bond ordinance without any down payment. I can see, from the look on your face, you don’t approve of that.

Mr. Casey: Yes. I’ve done those on self-liquidating stuff, but I’ll look at that.

Mr. Dorsey: But you look as if you don’t approve of that, but that is one possibility, if you want to make that application.

Mr. Casey: I think the bottom line is we need to have a meeting to sit down and discuss in detail, now that we have some numbers, and I think to question the architect is you have to get a high comfort zone with your numbers, because….go for more fund, if you don’t need it you can cancel it, but to go back for the second bite, it’s difficult.

Mr. Cannilla: We understand that.

President Greenbaum: I’d like to have this meeting scheduled sooner rather than later. I’m going to reschedule for resolution and hopefully an agreement of general terms, for the next public meeting. Colleen, did you have something that you need to add?

Ms. Labow: I just wanted to say that I think this is an excellent program, because we already have a problem with the old Municipal Building, that was just left to deteriorate, and instead of having that happen with another municipal building, I think it’s a win-win for the township in the fact that they will be doing all of the upgrades and all of the maintenance and they’re going to be paying us…..well, they’ll be paying their bond on it, and the building won’t be vacated, instead of having it just deteriorating.

President Greenbaum: Bob, can you please… writing, provide us with any concerns that you have about moving forward in this fashion and any concerns that the Mayor may have that we need to consider before we move forward with this?

Mr. Dorsey: Barbara, one other thing, I’ve always assumed you were a 501C corporation…..

Mrs. Melveger: Yes.

Mr. Casey: They are filed with me and I have, John, for you their class.

Mr. Dorsey: Yes, maybe you should give that to me.

Mr. Casey: Yes, I’ve got that.

Mrs. Melveger: Yes, we’re a public charity.

Mr. Casey: I’ve got that…they gave me that stuff.

President Greenbaum: Thank you very much, and we’ll see you back at the next public meeting.

Mrs. Melveger: I thank you….okay, very good, thank you.

Garden State Engineering (319 Budd Lake Grant)

President Greenbaum: The next item on for discussion is Garden State Engineering.

Mrs. Murphy: Good evening. A year ago, Garden State Engineering was one of three presenters to the Council to proceed with the application for 319H Stormwater Management Grant, which is actually funded from the Federal government through the States and down to the local level. So, after a year of their work and negotiations with DEP and trying to work on the scope of the project, DEP had them increase the scope of the project, decided to throw in some more money, and out of 91 projects that were filed, 11 were approved, and this one for $393,000 was the only one that was approved in the Raritan basin. Tonight we have Garden State Engineering here with us to explain a bit about the project. We need to pass a resolution to enact the grant agreement and then I will have them provide a professional services contract that we can enact sometime during the next month, so that work can begin June 1st, but I’d like to introduce John Scillia and Nick Agnoli.

John Scillia: Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Council, for listening to the update of this particular project. About a year ago, as Kathy said, we were here to explain the merits of a regional stormwater management plan and watershed protection plan for Budd Lake. Fourteen months or so later, the DEP has recommended that a grant be awarded to the township to implement this particular project. Nick Agnoli is the client manager and the lead project manager on this particular project for GSE and has been instrumental in shepparding this through the process. If you don’t know, the process takes about a year to get the approvals, and as Kathy had mentioned, of the ninety plus applicants, this is only one of eleven that’s made it through and it’s one of the larger grants that has been awarded. With that, I’m going to hand this over the Nick and we’ll go over the general benefits of this particular plan and then we’ll answer any questions you might have, we’ll stay here as Mr. Scillia(cont’d): long as it takes, but at the end of the day, I think this is a win-win for everyone involved. I think Budd Lake will certainly benefit from this plan once it’s done. With that, Nick Agnoli.

Nick Agnoli: I would like to thank everyone for their time. I’m Nick Agnoli, I’m with GSE. I’m just going to step over here and do a real brief, I promise, not engineering brief, but actually brief, a brief presentation just based on what the stormwater management plan is, as well as….10 minutes, okay. A 10 minute presentation on the stormwater management plan and what it exactly entails and just a little bit about the loan process. I promise I’ll keep it very very short. Okay, hopefully I’m not too loud with the microphone. Again, the discussion right now is on the Budd Lake watershed restoration protection and original stormwater management plan. Again, we’re with GSE, we’re partnered with Rutgers University on this project. Rutgers is our industry partner, we work with them quite a bit. We’re doing similar projects in several other communities and it’s worked out very well working with Rutgers University. A kind of real quick overview on this process, got too far already, just congratulations again are in order, only 12 of the 91 submitted proposals were approved. This is called a 319H grant proposal….excuse me, this is called 319H grant program, and again, it’s monies made available under the Clean Water Act for projects that will enhance a local lake or enhance a local stream corridor, etc. Again, 91 were submitted to the State, we’re one of only 12 to be approved. The project itself was able to capture about 10% of the State’s available budget, these grants are 100% grants, the town is not required to give any additional monies to the process. Again, this is a 100% grant program. To talk a little bit about the area that we focused on, also I’ll have a map in a second, but the best way to say it is, the Budd Lake….they call it the South Branch Raritan River Watershed, is about 5 square miles in size. Budd Lake is the ultimate receiving water. The watershed we’re focusing on is the Budd Lake Watershed and, again, all the areas that send water down to Budd Lake, they’re called category one waterways, meaning they’re supposed to be given a higher level of protection by the State of New Jersey and also by the municipalities. A category one water is one that is to be kept in a pristine state, that’s what the State has designated Budd Lake itself and also the South Branch, which is directly below Budd Lake. Something here that’s called the TMDL for fecal coliform, and what that really means is that State has set maximum daily loading levels that are permitted for fecal coliform. Again, the State has come along and said okay, here’s the maximum permissible level, and it’s also called 303D, and what that means is the State, during research in the past, has found that it has, you know, it has some problems, it doesn’t mean the lake is in terrible shape, by the way, it just means that there are reported problems of fecal coliform, bacteria, mercury, phosphorous, as well as temperature. When I say temperature, it means when water flows across a warmer surface and gets to a lake, it does increase the temperature of the lake a little bit, which can cause some problems. Okay, kind of a better view of the watershed, here…just for scale, here’s Budd Lake in the center. The area of interest is not like here, it’s a blue line right here, it’s supposed to be green, but the blue line, here’s the south branch of the Raritan, it’s red, indicating it’s a category one. So our….the project, this restoration and protection plan for Budd Lake itself is going to focus on this entire watershed, because we can’t simply focus on the lake, we have to figure out also where the pollutants are coming from. Just for a point of reference, here’s Route 46 right here. Now, some of the kind of benefits of this project, I’ll just go through them one at a time, again, I promise I will keep this brief. First and foremost, it’s an environmental assessment, paid for completely by the State of New Jersey. This is, again, by the DEP, the basis of this money and the source of this money, however, is the Federal government, it is from the Clean Water Act. What is this project exactly? Well, we’re going to go out with sampling to determine the pollutant sources, along with Rutgers University, do a significant amount of sampling within the watershed, find out where, if any, is the pollution coming from. Two, determine future pollutant loading. One thing we’re also going to do with Rutgers University, is build out analysis. We look at the Budd Lake Watershed and then project 30 years from now what’s the maximum build out…you know, what does maximum construction look like and what, if any, impacts are there to Budd Lake. Last but not least, we also determine remedies. Now, this is kind of a key point, when we determine, through this planning process, and again, to briefly explain the planning process, Mount Olive elect is the LPA, the Lead Planning Agency. A group of interested parties then can join in the planning process, okay, and then they form this plan committee. The plan committee oversees the development of this plan. The ultimate goal of the plan is to come up with a series of remedies, both structural and non-structural, yet it doesn’t have to be a filter, it can be something as simple as setting up a buffer area between the lake and the pollutant source, or removing the pollutant source completely. It’s not always best to filter the bottom, sometimes it’s best to figure out where it is on the top, and also to determine funding sources. A big key is once the plan has been approved by the State of New Jersey, and by the Lead Planning Agency, you’re then eligible for implementation monies, because it’s quite nice to come up with a plan that can collect dust on a shelf that is just too expensive to possibly implement. The benefit to this plan, under the 319H monies, as this plan is….a gateway for funding. Once your plan has been approved by the State, you are then eligible for grant monies for implementation. However, and this is another key point, you are not obligated to implement those projects, because one of the major concerns, whenever you do a plan, is if we do this plan, are we then responsible for implementing 70,000 different controls around the lake. That is not affordable, no DPW or municipal budget can afford that, but rather you rank and prioritize the projects and then, at your discretion, you then work with a grant program to fund them one at a time. It will take a period of time. If there are several projects, it might take several years, but again, I want to be very clear in that there is no
Mr. Agnoli(cont’d): forced implementation at that point. Now, when it comes to the….all the “tier A municipalities” in New Jersey, this is one of the them, are required to do a municipal stormwater management plan, every town is working on them right now, putting together a municipal stormwater management plan. The first year of the plan is now coming due, which is, again, all townships by now are required to have come up with that plan, however, a lot of the things you have to do for that plan, you have to go out and inspect all of your outfalls. You have to go out and look for sources of erosion and sediment discharge. That you actually, in the area of that study, will be taken care of by this grant. Again, the grant money cannot be directly attributed to the municipal stormwater management plan, however, there’s a lot of overlap. This region of Mount Olive and Budd Lake will now be funded by the State, so again, the permitting requirements that were due over the next four years, to the State of New Jersey, will be taken care of in the Budd Lake watershed by this grant, and it also, and just as importantly, establishes what we call a water quality base line. You now have specific area in the Budd Lake watershed, so that if there’s future construction and there’s an allegation that this construction is causing water quality detriment, you now have evidence to either support, or say that it is not the case, because you now have a base line. You have established what really is the water quality in Budd Lake and then should a construction project occur and all of a sudden there’s an allegation that the water quality is deteriorating, we have plenty of data to check that now, you’ve got 18 months worth of water quality data by which to base future development and future impacts. Then, last but not least, just to kind of throw this out there as well, new projects are permitted into the system each year, this is an 18 month project, however, you are permitted every year to enter other projects into the mix down at DEP. The program takes about one year to make it through, so I have to be careful when I say this year, it takes about one year to get funding, but just to kind of give you an example: Here’s the Budd Lake watershed, while directly below the Budd Lake watershed, obviously the southern branch of the Raritan River discharges somewhere, now we have the Turkey Brook by Flanders-Drakestown and the Raritan River, that is another watershed that they’re looking at for, again, future implementation and planning projects in the future. I want to focus primarily on the plan itself, so at this point, I guess I should open it up to questions….any questions on the plan?

Ms. Labow: Didn’t Gene….Gene just finished our Municipal Stormwater Management Plan, didn’t he? Have you looked at that?

Mr. Agnoli: Actually, the plans themselves have just come due, I think….it was probably due this month, April 2005.

Ms. Labow: Yes, we got it.

Mr. Agnoli: What will happen then is, once the plan has been approved by DEP, you’re then required to do some measures, again, go out and survey outfalls, go out and look for soilers and sediment control problems, as well as other projects. Within the confines of the plan boundary, that could be paid for by the grant, because it overlaps.

Ms. Labow: Okay, so you’re going to be doing the same exact thing again, or will you be going on the work that’s done?

Mr. Agnoli: No….the first year, under the municipal stormwater management plan, municipal stormwater planning requirements, in the first year require to come up with the plan, years two through five, you have to implement the plan, so the implementation phase we can take care of in part by this project.

Ms. Labow: And you mentioned something before about you could have a lot of different projects that come up that you’re not forced to do them,

Mr. Agnoli: Yes. No, you’re not.

Ms. Labow: In a certain time frame, so you’re not forced to do them at all…or do you have to eventually do them once they’re identified, or you’re not, you know, you’re mandated at a certain….

Mr. Agnoli: You’re not given a time line. For instance, if you find…just quick, for instance, you have to build a filtration system in the north end of the lake, you have to build a buffer strip on the east end of the lake, and then you have to do some sort of artificial wetland…it wouldn’t be appropriate, but an artificial wetland on the other side of the lake, what you do then is prioritize the length of projects and then you look for funding sources. Those that you could fund, via grants and other grant sources, you’d be not required to be, but you’re probably more than likely to do that, but you’re not required to implement any particular project, no.

Ms. Labow: You’re not required?

Mr. Agnoli: You are not, no.

Ms. Labow: Okay.

Mr. Agnoli: There is no….whereas the municipal stormwater management plans, everyone had to do one. The regional stormwater management plan is an optional plan, you know, we’ve acquired the funding, you know, with the assistance of the township, however, there is no time line associated with it, because it’s an option plan.

Ms. Labow: Okay. My question is the $393,000 grant, right…, we don’t actually have that, you have to still apply for it?

Mr. Agnoli: No, no, you’ve been awarded that….you’ve been awarded the $400,000.

Ms. Labow: We’ve been awarded this…now what portion of that funding does your project cost?

Mr. Agnoli: Sure, the project itself, with the planning, research, build-out analyses, and all the other things that come with the plan, which again includes….a good portion of the budget will go to the actual sampling as well as the computer modeling, we’re also….I’ll talk a little more about the plan, I’m trying to keep it brief….

Ms. Labow: I saw your program when you came back last year, so I understand a little bit.

Mr. Agnoli: Okay, there’s also ground work component we have to do, a ground water model as well and last but not least, and the most difficult part is…just time-wise, is the build-out analyses, going out and surveying all the outfalls, going out and surveying all the stormwater structures, so the actual cost of the project is $400,000. Implementation would be future years, you cannot get implementation monies until the plan has been approved by the DEP.

Ms. Labow: Okay, so the $400,000 isn’t for us to do any improvements, only to do your project.

Mr. Agnoli: Actually draw up the plan itself, that’s correct, yes. The plans, because of the time line, because they take about 18 months and because you’re required to have quarterly meetings, there’s a very substantial reporting requirement. I’m not making any excuses, that is what it costs.

President Greenbaum: But, by the same token, it’s my understanding that some of the work that they’re going to be doing is work which is going to be required of the township, under the stormwater management implementation in future years, so we will, in fact, besides identifying pollutants and issues which need to be addressed, the township will actually be saving money by not having to pay for implementation because it’s being done under the grant. Is that correct?

Mr. Agnoli: Yes, that is correct. We’re actually spending, in terms of personnel hours, quite a bit on actually going out to the field and doing a lot of these activities that would otherwise have to have been done by township employees or sub-consultants.

Ms. Labow: And then you’ll come back to us with a list of items that should be addressed and prioritized and then we would start to go for funding after that?

Mr. Agnoli: Yes. That’s correct.

Ms. Labow: And none of those things, just once again, none of those things are going to be mandated to be done….

Mr. Agnoli: No, they will not, no.

Ms. Labow: Okay, so we can pick and choose.

Mr. Agnoli: Yes…the ranking system is also…it’s affordable. When we rank these projects, it’s a need, but also when we look at funding sources….because again, I’ve seen previous studies of the lake done and some of the proposed remedies have been unbelievably expensive and just…you know, that’s something that could…..

Ms. Labow: Could you consider the old Municipal Building a source of pollutant and take it down first?

Mr. Agnoli: I can’t say for sure, because I’m being taped….but yes.

Ms. Labow: Just kidding.

President Greenbaum: Mayor, did you have something?

Mayor De La Roche: Yes, what I wanted to ask is once you’ve prioritized future projects and you say you can go out and get funding for it, some sort of funding…

Mr. Agnoli: Yes.

Mayor De La Roche: You’re not required to go according to the prioritized list….I mean, you’re not mandated to.

Mr. Agnoli: Oh no, no, the….

Mayor De La Roche: So, in other words, you can skip to the second or third, because you get funding for that as opposed to the first.

Mr. Agnoli: Yes, that’s correct, that’s correct.

Mayor De La Roche: Okay, I just wanted to make sure that’s clear.

Mr. Agnoli: Sure.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone else have questions? Do you want to move on to the plan itself?

Mr. Agnoli: Actually that concludes my presentation.

President Greenbaum: Oh, that’s it?

Mr. Agnoli: Ten minutes, I was given.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone else have anything else? Kathy, did you have any….

Mrs. Murphy: Well, I just wanted to explain…tonight, we need to enact the resolution for the grant agreement, so we meet the deadline at DEP, and the next step would be…I’m going to have them submit some information to Mr. Dorsey so we can prepare the professional services agreement which we can do at the next available meeting, to get that moving, because they have to begin work June 1st. The other thing I was going to bring up is this year’s applications, under the same program, have just been released by DEP, and so one of the things that would make sense is for them to continue and to file an application for the Turkey Brook sub-watershed, so that they can see if they can continue this plan, but they would need some authorization from you to do that. So, if you’re so inclined, we can put that resolution together and move that at some point in May, so they can be preparing the next application.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Mr. Casey, we have on our agenda non-consent resolution #7, which is the resolution that we are speaking of, did….it was my understanding that you may have had some issue with the resolution?

Mr. Casey: My concern with the program was addressed when I met with the gentleman on Monday and it went to the question that Ms. Labow had, was whether in fact we were going to be mandated to make certain requirements in our DEP…..I also get concerned when you send information down to DEP as to whether it goes to the enforcement division or the planning division. Based upon their assurances that this is a non-enforceable action, so we will not be creating a future problem, and then based upon the fact that they will be, in fact, providing information that would…like they indicated, offset requirements the township has, I would basically withdraw my concerns.

President Greenbaum: Okay, it’s on non-consent. I’m going to….to amend the agenda slightly to resolve this issue. Now, Mr. Buell, could you please move non-consent resolution #7?

7. Governing Body Resolution – Grant Agreement Between the Township of Mount Olive and the State of New Jersey by and for the Department of Environmental Protection ($393,944 Budd Lake Watershed restoration, Protection and Regional Stormwater Management Plan)

Mr. Buell: I move non-consent resolution #7.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: At this point, I’ll open it to the public for anyone who wishes to comment on non-consent resolution number 7. Mr. Jones, please state your name and address for the record.

Dave Jones, Route 46, Budd Lake: Just out of curiosity, I heard that like one pound of fertilizer will create like 75 pounds of algae or something like that, is that true?

Mr. Agnoli: Yes, actually… should bring that up, one of the primary things that we look for when there’s a phosphorous problem in the lake, is exactly what you’re talking about…would be fertilizer runoff, because you actually….I don’t know the exact proportions, but it does not take much….one bag of fertilizer, for instance, can destroy a lake eco system, so the percentages you’re talking about probably are about right.

Mr. Jones: One other thing, what if we find out that the landfill is polluting the lake in some way, what happens then?

Mr. Agnoli: Alright, if we’re in a situation….okay…it’s a fair question. If you have a landfill situation, which would be a hazardous material causing it….municipal landfill I assume you’re talking about?

President Greenbaum: No.

Mr. Jones: I don’t know if it’s municipal or not.

President Greenbaum: No, you’re talking about the Combe’s landfill….

Mrs. Murphy: Combe Fill North landfill actually is in the Willsbrook sub-watershed, which drains to the Musconetcong. So, it’s actually a different watershed altogether.

Mr. Agnoli: It’s outside of the watershed? It wouldn’t apply to this project.

Mrs. Murphy: So, if that were to leak, it would not be draining to Budd Lake.

Mr. Jones: Okay.

Mr. Agnoli: However, let me just kind of act on that…

Mr. Jones: That’s all I have.

Mr. Agnoli: However, we are looking at ground water, so if the ground water was leaking toward the lake, we would flag that, obviously we would take a look at that, but it’s outside the watershed.

Mrs. Murphy: The only other thing I wanted to mention was….part of the grant process and the plan that they have to work on, there will be a considerable number of meetings, some of which our personnel will attend, but also Raritan Basin New Jersey Water Supply will be attending the meeting, South Branch Watershed, which are all members of the Raritan Highlands Compact, so you get a lot of crossover and sharing of information from other groups as well.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Anyone else from the public who wishes to be heard on non-consent resolution number 7? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public. Any Council comment with respect to this particular resolution? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

Jones Property Maintenance Update

President Greenbaum: The next item for discussion, going back to our agenda, is the Jones Property Maintenance Update. Are you handling that Mr. Casey?

Mr. Casey: Yes sir. The township basically has….let’s just say that the Jones property, at this point in time, is substantially in compliance with the needs of the township. We inspected this afternoon, they have made significant progress and things are going satisfactorily.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Did you feel the need to comment in any fashion, or can we move on to the next item? Please state your name and address for the record.

Tammy Jones, 236 Route 46: So, what you’re telling us is that we are now complete, or not complete? That’s what I need to know.

Mr. Casey: When you met with Catherine last week on site, you met with Catherine and Jay, there was….

Mrs. Jones: Correct.

Mr. Casey: Whatever those understandings were, but you’ve addressed most of them…

Mrs. Jones: They didn’t really say much, they just took pictures, they didn’t tell me much of anything.

Mr. Casey: They told me that you were substantially complete, just a few minor items, that they talked to you, but they’re not seeing you again.

Mrs. Jones: Well the, yes, the one camper wasn’t removed and the carport wasn’t done, which has now been completed.

Mr. Casey: Then, if it’s all completed, then if they’re happy, you’re happy….we’re happy.

Mrs. Jones: Okay, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Thank you very much.

Ms. Labow: Can I just ask a procedural question? Do they get a letter, Mr. Casey, stating that they’re in compliance?

Mr. Casey: If they wish a document from the town, I can have, you know, ask the Code Officials to send a letter.

Ms. Labow: What I mean, just….I don’t mean just the Joneses, I mean any property owners, how do you close it out?

Mr. Casey: Normally by simply advising them that at this point in time, we’re going to take no further action. So, we’ll basically send them what’s called, as DEP would say, a letter of no further action.

Ms. Labow: Well, that’s what I wanted to know…..

President Greenbaum: No further action with respect to the property maintenance violations that were previously identified. Thank you very much.

Questions on Bill List?

President Greenbaum: At this point in the meeting I would ask any Council members if they have any questions on the Bill List? Seeing none…..




1. Letter received April 11, 2005, from Ralph Fucetola regarding Blackthorn Estate Buyers, Inc.

2. E-mail received April 18, 2005, from George Vargish regarding ideas to preserve the Seward Mansion.


3. Notice received April 14, 2005, from Netcong Borough regarding hearing for purpose of the adoption, revision or amendment of its Master Plan.

4. Letter received April 15, 2005, from Morris County Green Table regarding “Deer and Geese Management.”

5. Resolution received April 18, 2005, from the Town of Dover requesting the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders return surplus funds to local municipalities.

6. Resolution received April 18, 2005, from the Township of Randolph regarding continued support for Picatinny’s Armaments Research, Development and Engineering Center (ARSEC)

7. Resolution received April 18, 2005, from the Town of Dover requesting the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders return surplus funds to local municipalities.

8. Resolution received April 21, 2005, from the Township of Hardyston objecting to the Federal Government’s Cuts to Community Development Block Grant Funds.

9. Ordinance received April 21, 2005, from the Borough of Netcong regarding Land Use.

10. Resolution received April 21, 2005, from the Township of Lumberton regarding the State to reimburse municipalities for the reimbursement and payment of property taxes.


11. Letter received April 15, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding West Morris Regional High School, Washington Township.

12. Letter received April 15, 2005, from EcolScience regarding Application for an Extension of Letter of Interpretation: Line Verification for Block 4400, Lots 86 and 108 (39 Sovereign Drive, Flanders and 152 Flanders Netcong Road, Flanders)

13. Letter received April 20, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Authorization for Freshwater Wetlands Statewide General Permit No. 25 and Waiver of Transition Area for access. Applicant: Richard Definis Block 8100; Lot 2 (353 River Road, Flanders)

14. Letter received April 21, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Construction on Single Family Home. Block 2201, Lot 4 (28 Tamarack Road, Budd Lake) Agency Determination: Highlands Act – Exempt Water Quality Management Plan – Consistent.


15. Letter received April 11, 2005, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding “Brownfields Marketplace: A Conference and showcase for New Jersey Properties.”

16. Mayors Advisory Fax received April 13, 2005, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Stormwater Regulations.

17. E-mail received April 13, 2005, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding How to Handle a Defeated School Budget.


18. Letter received April 12, 2005, from Bill Merritt, Project Manager, Morris Hunt regarding request to extend Developers Agreement for one year.

19. Notice received April 15, 2005, from Meadowlands State Fair regarding Advance Ticket Sales.

20. Notice received April 15, 2005, from Highlands Council regarding Agenda for the next Meeting of April 21, 2005.


21. Fax received April 19, 2005, from Comcast regarding WB HD, Cinemax and Showtime.

22. Letter received April 21, 2005, from Comcast regarding WB HD, Cinemax and Showtime.


23. E-mail received April 8, 2005, from Congressman Frelinghuysen regarding Frelinghuysen, NJ Delegation Ask President Bush for Federal Emergency Disaster Declaration for Flooded New Jersey Locations, Frelinghuysen, House officials taking steps to prepare U.S. for Potential Influenza Pandemic, Frelinghuysen praises Ukrainian President for Speech before Joint Session of Congress and Identity theft no a laughing matter.

24. E-mail received April 13, 2005, from Bret Schundler regarding Tax reform.

25. E-mail received April 15, 2005, from Congressman Frelinghuysen regarding Homeland Security, “Academy Night”, and Robert Lazar Middle School to launch “We the People” Library Bookshelf.

President Greenbaum: At this point, there are 25 pieces of correspondence for discussion, does anyone wish to discuss any particular piece of correspondence?


President Greenbaum: Seeing none, we’ll move on to Ordinances for Public Hearing. At this point in time, I will open to the public Ordinance #11-2005, entitled:

Ord. #11-2005 An Ordinance to Amend Chapter 400 Entitled “Land Use” More Specifically to
Modify and Clarify the Residential Density Standard for Low Income Senior Citizen Housing as Established in the R-2SC Zone District.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone from the public wish to speak on this particular ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public and ask Mr. Buell to please move Ordinance #11-2005.

Mr. Buell: I move Ordinance #11-2005.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: Is there Council discussion? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: I declare Ordinance #11-2005 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. At this point, I would open the discussion to the public on Ordinance #12-2005, entitled:

Ord. #12-2005 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Revision to the Code of the Township of Mount Olive, Part 1, Administrative Legislation Chapter 4, Administrative Code Article XV, Budget, Purchasing and Expenditures Section 4-73 Band and 4-73C Entitled Procedure for Payment.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone from the public wish to speak on this particular ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close it the public and ask Ms. Labow to move Ordinance #12-2005.

Ms. Labow: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #12-2005.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: Any Council comment? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: Ordinance #12-2005 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. I now open to the public Ordinance #13-2005, entitled:

Ord. #13-2005 An Ordinance to Amend and Supplement Chapter 102, Entitled “Documents, Fees for Copies of” Section 102-1 Entitled “Fee Schedule” of the Mount Olive Township Code.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone from the public wish to speak on this particular ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public and ask Mr. Guenther to move Ordinance #13-2005.

Mr. Guenther: I hereby move for adoption and passage of Ordinance #13-2005.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: Is there any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: Ordinance #13-2005 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law.



Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a Purchasing Contract.

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Submission of a Tonnage Grant Application to the State of New Jersey.

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders Return Surplus Funds to Local Municipalities.

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing a Special Public Meeting on Tuesday, May 17, 2005, for the purpose of Adopting a Resolution in Connection with the Defeated School Budget.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Mt. Olive Soccer Club Concessionaire Building.

President Greenbaum: Consent Resolutions. Does any Council member wish to have any of the five consent resolutions removed?

Ms. Labow: Number 3.

President Greenbaum: Number 3 will be moved down to non-consent. Any others? Mr. Rattner, do you want to move 1, 2, 4 and 5 please.

Mr. Rattner: Thank you very much Mr. Council President. I move resolutions 1, 2, 4 and 5.

Mr. Buell: Second.


President Greenbaum: At this point, are there any members of the public who wish to speak on any of the resolutions? Yes sir, please state your name and address for the record and I’m sure it’s not Mount Olive Township.

Harry Brown, Hackettstown, NJ, Vice President of Operations for the Mount Olive Soccer Club: I would ask that this resolution, regarding the concession building, be postponed for a couple of weeks, while we seek outside counsel.

President Greenbaum: I have no problem with that. I don’t think anyone has a problem with that.

Mr. Brown: Because our question is that this just, all of a sudden, has become more of an exception than the rule, because….

President Greenbaum: It’s not an issue. It will be just defeated or do we just remove it?

Mr. Dorsey: Just remove it.

President Greenbaum: It will not be voted on this evening. When do you want to have it relisted…how much time do you need?

Mr. Brown: We’re trying to seek a municipal attorney to get a statement from on the validity because there seems to be other structures in the township that aren’t being addressed.

President Greenbaum: If you want to have it listed for…is two weeks enough time?

Mr. Brown: Yes.

President Greenbaum: Okay, so we’ll put it on for the next public meeting. Thank you very much.

Mr. Brown: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else who wishes to be heard on the consent resolutions agenda? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public.


President Greenbaum: Any Council discussion on 1, 2 and 4, at this point? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously


6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive in the County of Morris Regarding Participation in the Municipal Assessment Process.

President Greenbaum: Moving on to the non-consent resolutions, Number 6, Mr. Buell can you please move resolution number 6?

Mr. Buell: I move for approval of resolution number 6.

Mr. Guenther: Second.


President Greenbaum: Any public discussion on this particular resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public.


President Greenbaum: Any Council discussion? Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: From reading the information we were given, I don’t have a good understanding of what we’re on the hook for. I know that the Acting Business Administrator, I believe, wrote…saying that he had some issues with it. I have issues because I’m not sure what I’m approving. If I could get an explanation, I guess it came from Kathy Murphy, if she’d be willing….

Mrs. Murphy: As you know, Mount Olive is a member of the Raritan Highlands Compact, it’s an organization you pay dues to. I’m currently the municipal representative to the Compact and we are hosting our meeting here this Thursday, 8:00 am if anyone would like to attend. We’ll probably have about 25 other municipal officials from the other nine towns. Part of the….the purpose of the Compact is to work as a group studying parts of the head water areas of the South Branch, and of course being in the Highlands, and trying to share this information so that ultimately the ordinance development and other information collected can be shared to save the towns money, and as I said, New Jersey Water Supply has a huge Federal grant to help do this information. They will be working with Garden State Engineering in the Budd Lake study and some other programs, so there’s going to be a lot of give and take on this. New Jersey Water Supply is going to be working on some ordinance development and collecting other data, and to be able to do that, they would like the town to sign…or pass a resolution that authorizes them to conduct a municipal assessment. So, that’s what this is for, and they of course would like to have some sort of action taken in preparation for our meeting on Thursday.

President Greenbaum: Mr. Casey, did the Administration have any position on this?

Mr. Casey: Our concern is that, as I noted in my cover memo, is we just finished the Stormwater Management Plan, which you all got a copy of, we’re now going forward with Budd Lake, I’m afraid that we’re going to have information overload. I’m not sure how you’re going to be able to absorb competing Stormwater Management Plans, competing ideas, you’ve got Schoor DePalma doing it, you’ve got Public Works jumping to that one and no one else. I think that there’s just too many cooks in the broth right now and I think that what you’ve got in process is adequate to protect the town, I don’t see any reason to confuse the issue further.

Mr. Guenther: I’m reading this and I don’t understand what municipal assessment means. To me, assessment means we have to pay something, what does…what does municipal assessment mean?

Mrs. Murphy: As part of the terms of the EPA grant that, that the Raritan Basin has, they will work with the towns to help you assess some of your stormwater, or rather…different land use elements in your…that would effect water quality and they will help you develop….

Mr. Guenther: You mean assess in the context to quantify, not to lay off an assessment.

Mrs. Murphy: Of data, yes….yes, just to…

Mr. Guenther: Okay, you’re sure that’s what it means?

Mrs. Murphy: They want to assess the data, they want to collect and assess data to help you plan and do ordinance development and other types of protective watershed planning ideas.

Mr. Guenther: Who is New Jersey Water Supply?

Mrs. Murphy: Do you remember…Daniel Van Abs…he used to be the head of Watershed Management at DEP, he retired and he now works for New Jersey Water Supply, and part of New Jersey Water Supply has the Raritan Basin, which is the non-profit end of it that has secured this huge EPA grant and is working throughout the entire Raritan Basin from the ocean all the way back to the head waters here, and Dan Van Abs has a staff that is working on this program and he has….they’ve done a lot of stuff on the lower Raritan Basin and some on the upper, and this is going to complete some of the upper studies…upper Raritan.

Mr. Guenther: I somewhat agree with some of Bob Casey’s concerns, I mean, it just…how does this dove tail with what we’ve just seen and the grant, I mean, isn’t there some overlap here?

Mrs. Murphy: I wouldn’t call it an overlap, I would call it a sharing of information. New Jersey Water Supply will actually be working with Garden State Engineering to share data, to make sure that things are consistent in what’s happening; and New Jersey Water Supply Raritan Basin will be working with the other towns as well, in the head waters area, to make sure that everything that gets done, that we’re all trying to work…similar to that Great Swamp Watershed or the Rockaway River Cabinet, would be two examples.

Ms. Labow: What are the other nine communities that are in this PAC?

Mrs. Murphy: Chester, Mendham, Rockaway, Roxbury, Mine Hill, Mount Arlington, Mount Olive, Chester Borough, Mendham Borough, I think that’s nine.

Ms. Labow: If we don’t go forward with this, does it effect everybody’s thing, because they’re all connected?

Mrs. Murphy: Well, being the very head waters of the river itself, yes.

Ms. Labow: So, this is an integral part of the whole entire study?

Mrs. Murphy: Well, it’s integral to what the cabinet is doing….or the Compact is doing, but it’s also consistent with the idea of protection of the watershed in general, so that…yes, we have a lot of things going on right now, but it’s also consistent that you would want to participate as much as you can in all of those and share that information for one common goal, that’s the….

Ms. Labow: So, this information is shared and actually saves money and time when it’s…..I’m thinking that if it’s all going on at the same time, even though it seems like a lot, if everybody is sharing the information, it’s better than doing it at a different time, you have to go back and research the information.

Mrs. Murphy: Well, the other basis too, is that hopefully with the different studies, your membership that you paid initially has….we paid $1,500…

Ms. Labow: Is that a year or that was a one time thing?

Mrs. Murphy: That was for a year, but that also was the seed money and now they’ve brought in more grant money from the Dodge Foundation that’s getting this off the ground; and hopefully, as this grows, it attracts more grant money for other purposes that you’re going to have to face down the road.

Ms. Labow: And this is not going to cost us any money?

Mrs. Murphy: No. There’s no cost, I mean, if you weren’t pleased with it, I don’t see any reason why you would have to continue, if you weren’t pleased with the product.

President Greenbaum: Any further….Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: I’ve been a big supporter of the Raritan Compact, I think you’ll remember last year, when we had some issues about the attendance and going down, because I’ve seen the value of the other ones. I know the two that I’ve used is the Ten Towns, which is the Great Swamp. In fact, for people that were around, if you remember, that I got from them, you know, the basis for our tree ordinance, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, because I really felt if you can get ten towns as diverse as in the Great Swamp to agree on something, it must be a pretty good ordinance, and also if you look at the Whippany River, there they’ve gotten some really big grants. I don’t look at these as being all inclusive, these are actually independent groups that are taking, this is actually taking existing data and trying to come up with agreements on a regional basis, because what we do in Budd Lake, and they want to know what we’re doing in Budd Lake, affects everybody downstream. It goes in through Washington and everything else all the way down. I was just concerned that we got…I don’t know how we got the resolution, but I would imagine it had to come through the Administration, and then we get conflicting signals from the Administration, so I started wondering exactly what are we agreeing to, especially with, I believe, one of the comments that Mr. Casey said, and I understand that, understand the statement, that just because it sounds…or it says free, doesn’t mean it is free, so that’s why, when I asked what are we on the hook for? The Raritan Compact, and the different towns, has a noble purpose and I think it’s independent of our stormwater, it’s going to take our stormwater plans and put it into there so they can look at that to make sure it complements what the next towns that border us, because we don’t want to have conflicting plans.

Mrs. Murphy: They’ll also be looking at things like wellhead or ridgeline, etc.

Mr. Rattner: It’s all….for everybody around, but I just don’t understand, you know, from the documentation that we got, exactly what we’re committing to and I think that’s a legitimate question, and if that was the question from Mr. Casey, then I have to agree with them.

Mrs. Murphy: If you remember, at the end…after each meeting, I give you a summary of what happened during the meeting, the major points that were raised and this resolution was the sample that was attached to the
Mrs. Murphy(cont’d): last set of minutes, so basically all I had to do was plug the township name and, etc. So, that’s where the resolution was actually drawn up.

Mr. Rattner: But again, Mr. President, the question I have is that it’s still coming through, you know, the Administrative staff and there seems to be some disagreements on exactly what it is from the Administration and from what I got, I’m really not sure, I mean, yes I got the documentation, I read your minutes, but when I read the resolution, it just says yes we’re going to participate. Mr. Casey, and I understand what he’s saying, he says there may be some costs involved. We’ll get some grant at $1,500 was, I believe, to hire some secretarial staff and some other things, like to do the minutes of the meetings….

Mrs. Murphy: Well, the original membership was $1,500 yes.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, and we knew it was going to be continuing, so we have to see if it grows….

Mrs. Murphy: Right, everything under this assessment is covered by the EPA grant that Raritan Basin has.

Mr. Rattner: But Mr. Casey has the question, are we on the hook for anything else and I think that’s the question that I would have too, because we would have to know really what it’s going to cost us, $1,500 obviously we can find it. If it’s anything more than that, we would have to start looking at exactly what we’re getting ourselves into, and that’s my only question.

President Greenbaum: I thought Kathy answered the question by saying that we’re not on the hook for anything by signing on to this resolution. You know what,

Ms. Labow: And she said that we could quit at any time.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, I know, I heard that part, so…

Mrs. Murphy: Come to the meeting Thursday morning and ask the question.

Mr. Rattner: Well, Mr. Casey…Mr. Dorsey, since the resolution doesn’t have anything that we’re committing any money, from what you read in there, can we be on the hook, or we would have to pass another resolution if we were going to commit anything? That’s all I need, it’s a comfort thing.

Mr. Dorsey: Well, if my understanding of the word assessment is correct, or is as Kathy Murphy has explained it, then there is no fear of our being assessed money. It’s an assessment of certain environmental elements that are involved in this area. So, I would say not in…..after all, no one can make Mount Olive pay money until it is on the Bill List and approved, except for the exceptions that the CFO has not put into ordinance form, and this is not one of them.

President Greenbaum: Alright, Mayor, we now have one member of your Administration who has some questions with respect to this and one who is in favor, what is your position, if any?

Mayor De La Roche: Well, I’m not too sure I understand your question.

President Greenbaum: Well, Mr. Casey has indicated that he feels that we should not pass this resolution. Mrs. Murphy, who is a member of your Administrative staff, says that we need to pass this resolution. I’m just asking you, on which side of the fence, if you had a vote, you would fall?

Mayor De La Roche: Well, since I was part of the original group that formed this organization, I would be in support of it.

President Greenbaum: Okay, thank you. Any other Council comments? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except President Greenbaum voted No.

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders Return Surplus Funds to Local Municipalities.

President Greenbaum: Okay, Resolution number 3. Ms. Labow, will you please move Resolution number 3?

Ms. Labow: I move Resolution number 3.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Greenbaum: Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak on this particular resolution? Seeing none, close it to the public. Any Council comment? Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: Yes, I just wanted to bring it to your attention, I’m just hoping that maybe this will…you know, the County is like bragging about all this money they have in surplus and everybody throughout the County is like hurting and maybe they’ll send some our way.

President Greenbaum: Any other Council comments? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously


1. Bill List.

President Greenbaum: Bill List. Ms. Labow, please move it.

Ms. Labow: I move the Bill List.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Greenbaum: Any comments or questions? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously


President Greenbaum: Administrative Matters, Mr. Casey.


• Handicapped Parking @ Library

Mr. Casey: The first one was put on at Council’s request, I have not…to the best of my knowledge, the Library has not made any plan submissions as to any changes in their handicap access. So, as I’ve said in the past, what they have there meets requirements, once they fix the curb cuts, I have nothing further to say on it. It’s really up to the owner, i.e. the Library Board, as to whether they want to go beyond what the code requirements are.

Ms. Labow: They’re the owner?

Mr. Casey: Well, you’re the owner.

Ms. Labow: We’re the owner.

Mr. Casey: Let’s just say, from a construction code standpoint, that’s discretionary; there is nothing wrong with the current handicap access per code.

President Greenbaum: Comments.

Ms. Labow: At the last Library Board meeting, they did propose three or four different designs. The one that the….everyone there seemed in most favor of, is when you come around the center loop, there will be two spots to the right and to the left and they had….currently, that has gone back to their architect to give them a price on that. The one thing that I was a bit concerned about is to do the….Mr. Casey talked about the radius for the ones at the bottom was going to be about $5,000. I don’t know why they would want to spend $5,000 to do that if they’re going to put those other two spots in that are going to be at a cost of about $20,000, why they wouldn’t just put that $5,000 into putting those four spots in up at the front. It seems like a waste of money, since the other spots aren’t even going to be needed, would be my comment.

President Greenbaum: It’s hard for me, in a vacuum, to understand exactly what’s being proposed. Can we request from the Library the proposals that were given by the architect with respect to the….

Ms. Labow: They’re waiting for their…..

President Greenbaum: I would like to see the proposals. I think we all would.

Ms. Labow: Yes.

• Municipal Budget Discussion

President Greenbaum: Thank you. The next item for discussion is the Municipal Budget Discusssion. It’s my understanding, Mr. Casey, that there was to be a meeting between the Budget Committee and the Administration, which was cancelled. Is that correct?

Mr. Casey: That’s correct.

President Greenbaum: What is the status in terms of the Administration’s position vis-à-vis the Budget Committee, in terms of having a hearing?

Mr. Casey: The Mayor has a proposal, relative to the Budget, which I’ll now distribute to you and, which incorporates those comments and other comments. So, these are….Mr. Mayor.

President Greenbaum: At this point, because we have not seen this document and we have scheduled, at the next Workshop, full length budget discussions, I would prefer not to deal with this at this time. I haven’t had a chance to review it, and we’ll pick it up at the next….we’ll pick it up at the next meeting, Mayor, when everyone’s had a chance to review it and you can have your….you can have the floor first thing, with respect to the budget. Are there any other budget items, Mr. Casey?

Mr. Casey: Other than the fact that you’re now thirty days behind in State relative to requirements, I think this Council has to adopt a Budget within the next two weeks, or the Division will be coming and asking some questions.

President Greenbaum: You know what, in the past we’ve adopted the Budget in July. It’s not my intent to do that, my intent is to finalize the Budget next Tuesday night and then to move forward with adoption, as I had discussed with Sherry at the first meeting, the first public meeting after next week, which would be the first meeting in May and then we would have the public discussion. So, that’s what’s going to happen with the Budget. Has this also been submitted to the various members of the Budget Committee, who are not members of the Council?

Mr. Casey: No sir, that’s the first….gone to Council; if the Council wishes to give it to their Budget Committee, that’s fine.

President Greenbaum: Okay, can you please….do you have a copy of this?

Ms. Labow: Bob has extra copies.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Tony, do you want to grab a copy from….Russ, also, grab a copy. Thank you very much.

President Greenbaum: Okay, next item on the agenda. Is there any other Old Business? Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Guenther: Turkey Brook. I would like an update on what’s happening at Turkey Brook, the timetable for the berm, how the drainage…the serious drainage issue that was identified during the last rains, have been addressed.

Mr. Casey: I believe Mr. Buczynski stayed around just for that opportunity.

Mr. Buczynski: Not really, but I’d be glad to address it. Regarding timetable to contractor, at the last meeting, he said he would be….I think I mentioned to the governing body that he was supposed to be up there within a couple of days, that’s what he had told me that week. He did not get out there. He brought some equipment out there today, he should be starting tomorrow, but with the rains, he figures he probably won’t start until Thursday. He’ll be starting with….the first improvement would be the ditch…I’m sorry, the berm. He’ll be moving material from the pile into that area and start creating the berm and then landscaping. He’s going to be on the job until he finishes. He just had difficulty getting himself going this spring, so now he’s ready to move. He did drop off some equipment, like I said, this afternoon, so he’s ready to go.

Mr. Guenther: Now what about the additional issue that came up with the heavy rains, two or three weeks ago….

Mr. Buczynski: Okay, at the Council meeting we talked to…Mr. Smith was here and we talked about going out in the next major storm to review it and, of course, there has not been a storm that was major enough to have a concern yet, so once that happens, we’ve exchanged contact numbers, so we’ll go out there and look at what might be happening.

Mr. Guenther: Mr. Smith, who’s Mr. Smith?

Mr. Buczynski: Jim Smith.

Mr. Guenther: Well, you know, he lives… was John Rec who lives right next to the problem who should probably be involved as well, because he’s the one that sent us the pictures with all the horrible runoff.

Mr. Buczynski: Oh, well, I think that the main problem was, from Mr. Smith, was the concern with Budd Lake.

Mr. Guenther: Well, that’s fine.

Mr. Buczynski: And then the neighbor was regarding that area next to his house, which is going to be addressed with the contractor when we come back to the site.

Mr. Guenther: Well, you know, with all due respect to Mr. Smith, that’s fine, you know. We know there’s an impact on Budd Lake, but the point is that, I think it was pointed out the last time that there was something seriously wrong with the engineering up there as to how the water is channeled, and maybe it’s some of the grading hasn’t been done on the unfinished areas of the park, something is seriously wrong up there and it has to be looked at. I don’t know why it has to wait for another rain event.

Mr. Buczynski: Well, Bernie, I don’t think it’s seriously wrong, the inlets are covered right now with silt… with fabric because it’s under construction. Once the fabric is removed, the inlet that’s constructed in the back will function properly, and when they do the grade, and this was discussed at the last meeting. So, I’m not too concerned about any design concerns, I mean, there was no design really done for that section. That section was left vacant because phase two was never….phase two of the original design was never done after they graded that area, so nobody did a design for what caused this problem right now.

Mr. Guenther: Then what can be done to alleviate that problem?

Mr. Buczynski: That’s what the contractor is…..going to start his work this week, that’s the work they’re going to start now.

President Greenbaum: That’s the work that’s being done, to stabilize that area.

Mr. Guenther: That’s the berm.

President Greenbaum: No, no, no… stabilize the area that’s ungraded at the present time.

Mr. Buczynski: There is a berm, which is one issue, the other item is stabilizing the back area where we’re having a lot of erosion and flood problems.

Mr. Guenther: Oh, okay, so that’s part of…that’s all part of….that’s what I wanted to know.

Mr. Buczynski: Yes, that’s the soil erosion, that’s the schedule we worked out with the Morris County Soil Conservation District.

Mr. Buell: And, Bernie, they put bales of hay around…..

Mr. Guenther: Please, bales of hay…..

Mr. Buell: I know, but that’s….

President Greenbaum: You know, Bernie, part of the…part of what we had approved was to stabilize that area and according to Gene, that will resolve the issue, once that’s done and the inlets are uncovered, that will resolve the issue.

Mr. Buczynski: That will minimize the issue, I mean, there’s still….there’s seven acres of land there before the two fields were graded out. Soil erosion measures aren’t going to take care of seven acres, so that area has some growth. It’s the area that has no growth at all, no stabilization at all, which is what Morris County Soil Conservation wanted us to take care of, is being addressed with the plan.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, thank you, Gene, I appreciate it.

President Greenbaum: Any other Old Business?

Mr. Guenther: Yes. I see here several memos on….as a result of the resignation of Russ Brown, and the review of the building plans for the school, maybe you could….because I haven’t been at the last couple of meetings, something has occurred there, but I would just like to know what’s happening there, how that’s moving forward, is….I think there was a proposal here and a memo recently to borrow Mr. Brown from his present employers to do some reviews that… are we addressing these issues to keep the school project going on schedule?

Mr. Casey: Mr. Brown has been employed as a temporary Construction Official up to ten hours a week and, as such, he is….will be able to address the school concerns as well as to sign off on other documents requiring Construction Official’s signature. So, he’s been…that was effective starting this week.

Mr. Guenther: So we don’t foresee any undue delays, that this should keep it moving along….that we can’t…. I don’t want to see the township being blamed by the School District for delays because we don’t have the proper personnel to do the proper inspection.

Mr. Casey: Since the School District already admitted that they were sixty days behind in their plans, I think we can afford to take a few days of our own, but we should be able to….I think, when I talked to Russ, there’s no reason why, within the next couple of weeks, he can’t have those plans back to them.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, thank you.

Mr. Casey: Assuming, of course, that the plans that were given to him are reasonably done.

Mr. Guenther: No, no….I understand. I just wanted to know that the process can move along.

Mr. Casey: The process is moving.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Any other Old Business?

Ms. Labow: Just on the same…on Bernie’s coattails here, have you interviewed anyone yet, Bob?

Mr. Casey: I have interviewed two people, I phone interviewed four, I physically interviewed two, I have two others coming in. I will say that I think in all probability that in order to get a qualified person who had Mr. Brown’s capabilities, etc., that we may be paying slightly more than what we were paying Mr. Brown, but that happens to be the market today.

President Greenbaum: Any other Old Business? I have several items. Mr. Casey, can you please advise when we’re going to hear a discussion on the DPW project again?

Mr. Casey: I had that….I was hoping to do it tonight, I will schedule it for next week. I thought tonight was a joint meeting. Lisa can tell you, I actually had a full agenda worked out for tonight’s meeting work session, so there will be a full report on your next agenda, next week.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Mayor, can you please advise me as to the status of your search for a new Business Administrator?

Mayor De La Roche: Well, we’ve interviewed…I personally interviewed a number of candidates, as well as the fact that we continue to advertise on the, I guess, the internet, as also New Jersey Professional Management is looking at assisting us with finding the appropriate Business Administrator.

Mr. Casey: There will be a resolution on your next meeting, authorizing a contract with Jersey Professional Management, to do a full search. Jersey Professional Management was reluctant to do that until such point in time as the recall petition was resolved.

President Greenbaum: When is your contract up, Mr. Casey?

Mr. Casey: I don’t know. Lisa, do you have any idea?

Mrs. Lashway: I have no idea.

President Greenbaum: Can you get me that answer please?

Mrs. Lashway: Yes.

President Greenbaum: Thank you.

Mr. Casey: I don’t remember.


President Greenbaum: Thank you. New Business.


President Greenbaum: Seeing none, Legal Matters.

Mr. Dorsey: Nothing.


President Greenbaum: Council Reports.

Library Board Liaison Report

Ms. Labow: I mentioned before about the handicap parking space seems to be, you know, getting resolved, so we didn’t have to issue the Council directive, which was nice, since they had the plans there, and that’s about it.

Recreation Liaison Report - Mr. Mund is absent.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Guenther: There has been no meeting since the last time. We’ll be meeting in two weeks.

President Greenbaum: Oh, you know what I skipped by, I noticed in my package under New Business that there’s a vacancy which has been created in the Board of Adjustment, which is a Council appointment. I would ask that Lisa advertise for replacement on the Board of Adjustment.

Ms. Labow: We had some people the last time, though, too, do we still advertise?

President Greenbaum: Well, we should open it up to people….anybody who’s interested, so that we can consider whatever resumes are given.

Ms. Labow: Okay, be fair.

Mrs. Lashway: We have a vacancy on Recreation Advisory Committee, a vacancy on the Ethics Board, and a vacancy on the Board of Adjustment.

President Greenbaum: Okay, did we get any resumes at all?

Mrs. Lashway: No, not really.

Ms. Labow: I think there’s one on the Economic Development Committee, too.

Mrs. Lashway: I don’t know.

Mr. Rattner: That’s the Mayor’s committee.

Ms. Labow: Oh, that’s the Mayor’s, okay.

President Greenbaum: Okay, sorry to deviate.

Planning Board Report

Ms. Labow: Well, the one….I don’t know if it’s good news or bad news, we had to cancel the May 12th meeting because we had no applicants to hear any applications, they’re not getting very many applications, due to the Highlands, so that fact remains…it’s good that we’re not getting any new development coming in, but the bad news is we’re not getting any potential new ratables coming in either. The next issue that was discussed, was PNC Bank wants to put a new bank in up on….what’s that….Parkade Plaza at Naughright, Route 46 and Naughright ?

Audience: Inaudible.

Ms. Labow: What is it? Mount Olive Parkade, thank you, and they….I’m not sure on the dates, but I think when they first got the approvals for the pad there to put in whatever structure that the landlord wanted, I’m not so sure that Burger King was in at the time, they may have been approved at the same time, but since Burger King is now in, that intersection right there over Naughright, when you make the left right past the gas station, anybody who’s been up there, you know that the Johnson Dodge and that entrance don’t quite match up, so it does create a traffic situation. PNC Bank wants to go in right there at that corner, across from the bank, and the Planning Board’s position on that was that there’s just so much traffic right there and they would rather see the whole pad move to a different location. There was also some concern with the building design. They were very very proud of their building and one of the Planning Board members flat out said that it was the ugliest building he ever saw, so it sort of took the wind out of their sails, but they’re going to come back with some new proposals, talk to the landlord and see about moving it to a new location. The other issue that came up was the issue that we’ve been waiting to hear about, is the big box. The definition of a big box, they have chosen that they’re not going to define a big box and they’re going to handle the issue with set-backs. So, depending on the size of the building, and there will also be additional set-back on commercial properties that border residential areas. They’re meeting Friday, they should come up with it next week.

President Greenbaum: That creates kind of a conflict, though, because the master plan talks about no big boxes, which requires this Council to act in some fashion….

Ms. Labow: I have to change it.

President Greenbaum: Has it been changed at this point in time?

Ms. Labow: They’re talking about meeting on Friday and they’re supposed to come up and….

President Greenbaum: Are they going to have a master plan revision?

Ms. Labow: Yes.

President Greenbaum: Well,

Ms. Labow: They did discuss that as well, they’re supposed to finalize the fine details Friday.

President Greenbaum: You know what’s interesting, as a former Planning Board member, I always appreciated those nights when the meetings got cancelled, because it actually gave me another night to spend doing, either with my family or doing something that was otherwise productive, but I’ve always heard complaints from the Planning Board that there’s never enough time to actually do planning, because the Planning Board is always dealing with applications, and perhaps a suggestion could be made that those nights where there are no applications, that actual planning issues can be brought up.

Ms. Labow: Yes, that’s an excellent idea, I’ll make that suggestion.

President Greenbaum: So, just a suggestion, far be it from me to tell…I mean, I enjoyed those nights off, so…

Ms. Labow: Well, even this past week Thursday night we only had one applicant and when I would think if you have one applicant, it would be nice to hear the applicant and then you deal with the planning issues. Good idea.

Board of Adjustment Liaison Report – Mr. Perkins is absent.

Open Space Committee Report

Mr. Guenther: Not much to report, I wasn’t at the meeting, but I was given a report by Laura Szwak. They are actively pursuing…doing their ongoing investigations and due diligence on certain properties that have been identified before. The next Open Space meeting is May 9th, and then they plan to do a tour with some kind of a bus, of the Open Space sites and we will obviously advise everybody with plenty of time so that whoever wishes to participate in that….

Ms. Labow: They didn’t set a date yet?

Mr. Guenther: No, they don’t have a date yet, we’ll probably discuss that on the 9th.

Legislative Committee Report - Mr. Mund is absent.

Pride Committee Liaison Report – Mr. Perkins is absent.

Board of Education Liaison Report

Mr. Buell: They haven’t had a meeting since the last meeting, obviously, the only thing to report is the School Budget was voted down and we’re now involved.

Lake/Environment Issues Committee

Mr. Rattner: Thank you Mr. President. I can tell you that the lake clean-up was not last Saturday, but it is on May 21st, that’s a Saturday. Anybody who would like to volunteer, we will be doing the general clean up along the shore of the lake and do the maintenance of those fruit trees along 46. Anybody who’s interested, just leave a message for me at the Clerk’s Office, and we’ll make sure we get you the specifics.

Ms. Labow: What time are they starting?

Mr. Rattner: 9:00 am. We usually start with some donuts, bring your own coffee. May 21st, Saturday.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Is that the end of your report, Mr. Rattner?

Mr. Rattner: Yes.

Safety Committee Liaison

Mr. Guenther: Also, not at the meeting, I was unable to attend, but I do have a report from the head of that. There are a couple of concerns, it’s back to EMS coverage during the day. Captain Morris, from the Budd Lake Squad has issued a memo where they have a revised schedule of mutual aid in order to spread around the
Mr. Guenther(cont’d): possible load on the Flanders EMS, so they’ll be getting some help from Stanhope and Netcong. I think they’re hoping that that will alleviate some of the issues that have occurred. They also identified an issue of…that was discussed regarding dispatchers and it was their belief that possibly they did not receive enough training, and apparently there will be some discussions with the Police Department about that. That’s it.

Finance Committee Report

Mr. Rattner: I have nothing else to report.

Ad Hoc School Budget Advisory Sub-Committee

Mr. Guenther: We have just barely gotten the statutory requirement from the School Board as to the information that we need. Through our auditor, we requested additional information, which we have gone back to them for. Our auditor has been out of town until tomorrow and will be back in action, but his people from his office have been, you know, have been in contact through Lisa’s office to get…to look at some of the documents and get the information. We hope to at least have a very preliminary meeting by Friday, certainly at the latest by early next week, because we are under the gun with a time table.

Ms. Labow: What is the date?

President Greenbaum: May 19th.

Mr. Guenther: May 19th but we have to pass whatever we have to pass at our meeting on the 17th, so we’re really under the, you know, our deadline is May 17th. I’m saying ours….the Council’s deadline is May 17th, but we certainly don’t want to come up very close to that date, we’d like to have that resolved by the end of the following….of the prior week, which means the 17th is a Tuesday, so we’re talking about May 13th, if my arithmetic is correct. So, we’re under a very short time frame, but we’re, you know, actively working on it.

Ms. Labow: Who’s on the committee?

Mr. Guenther: Myself, Lee Mund, Dave Scapicchio, Scott Ireland and Howie Weiss, and there was one other individual…

President Greenbaum: Denise Mars, but she…

Mr. Guenther: No, she declined to serve. I would like to approach Hank Titone, who has served on that committee in the past, when we had to review the budget, he was, I believe, at least an eight year member of the Board of Education.

President Greenbaum: Okay, any other questions?

Mr. Guenther: Alright, so I plan to approach him and hopefully he can participate, because I think he has something, you know, some historical that he can contribute.


President Greenbaum: Thank you. At this point I will open it up to the public for any discussion on any items. Mr. Jones, please state your name and address for the record. I didn’t know that you were such an expert on fertilizer. That shouldn’t come as any surprise to me. Said in jest, Dave.

Dave Jones, Route 46, Budd Lake: I discussed something with Mrs. Labow a while ago about possibly having a stronger litter law along Route 46, especially since it’s in the Budd Lake, or Mount Olive Watershed, area. I don’t know but, you know, being that I live on Route 46, you know, people flick out cigarettes, corn chip bags, cans of soda, styrofoam cups, anything and everything you can imagine, and it flows off Route 46 and down the streets or into the drains, and I was wondering, you know, if possibly Council could, you know, either, you know, have a special fine for people littering in the Budd Lake Watershed area or whatever, if that would be possible.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, your point is well taken, but again, I don’t know what our ordinances say and they’re State ordinances as well. I think it’s a matter of enforcement, but again, you know, I hesitate to suggest that to our Honorable Police Chief. It might be a revenue source for us to have, you know, Policemen stationed at certain Mr. Guenther(cont’d): places and ticket people that are littering, but if they see a Police car, they’re not going to litter, so, you know, its kind of….I don’t know, is it education? I mean, if you’re driving along…I drive on Flanders Road a lot by, you know, which is our open space, Turkey Brook Park and the B&H property, and the other day we were coming home, in fact, we had been gone a week and my wife and I are driving back from the airport and we’re looking at this and all of a sudden she says “my God the litter that’s along here, it’s just incredible.” So, it’s not just an issue of Route 46 or 206, it’s just all over the place. I don’t know what the solution to it is.

Mr. Jones: Does anyone know the current fine, just out of curiosity, for littering?

Mr. Guenther: But if you don’t enforce it, if there’s no enforcement, what’s the good of the fine?

Mr. Jones: Well, we could put up signs.

President Greenbaum: You know, it’s unfortunate, it’s not just Mount Olive, it’s throughout everywhere.

Mr. Jones: Yes I know, but if we increase the fines,

President Greenbaum: It’s not going to change anything, Dave.

Mr. Jones: You don’t think so?

President Greenbaum: No, perhaps what we need to do is to put up signs that talk about, you know, beautify Mount Olive, along those stretches of Route 46, or maintained by some group, and that might give someone pause before they toss something out of their car.

Mr. Guenther: In fact, I was going to mentioned that if, as your liaison position would be…oh no, it’s Ray Perkins.

Ms. Labow: Right.

Mr. Guenther: Because with the Pride Committee, in the past, we have tried to activate this…..

Ms. Labow: And it’s been waning.

Mr. Guenther: Clean Communities Program, and I know I participated in clean-ups along certain areas, road area, and it’s just something that has to be done and you see….I was out in Arizona and I was amazed at the highways…the signs, at just about every mile, there’s a sign of some organization doing the clean-up and you see blue bags all along the highway, and these are interstate highways, they’re big highways, and you wonder, in Arizona, which is much more sparsely populated, how they’re able to find community motivated people to do this, apparently there are, and we just don’t seem to have that kind of motivation.

Ms. Labow: One point, I know if you’re driving down the highway and there’s road construction up ahead and they say fines doubled in construction area, if we get a sign that says litter fines doubled in the lake area, perhaps people would maybe think twice.

Mr. Rattner: Ms. Labow, I drive about 40,000 miles a year along the eastern seaboard and construction zones, and people don’t slow down in them…

Ms. Labow: I do.

Mr. Rattner: They just see the sign…a fine, I mean, it’s not the fine that’s really bad…..

Ms. Labow: I do, I don’t want to pay double.

Mr. Rattner: It’s your car insurance that goes up on one ticket.

President Greenbaum: Thank you, Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones: I do have a couple others. In the correspondence resolution #6, supporting Picatinny’s Armaments Research, Development and Engineering Center. I was hoping….I don’t know if the Council had done a resolution like that before…

Mrs. Lashway: Yes.

Mr. Jones: Okay, then that’s not an issue. One other issue, down at Meyer’s Pond, I noticed in the pond, there’s some cut trees and they’re not, you know, chewed down by beavers, and I don’t even know if the beavers are down there, or what happened to them at all, if they vacated the place, or if the builders trapped the beavers, or what, and I was wondering if I could just find out what happened. If there was some sort of trapping going on by the State or what, and also, you know, with the cut-down trees, you know, who cut them down, because these were cut down by chain saws and, you know, they were just left in the lake, so….

President Greenbaum: I would suggest you ask Mr. Casey to get you answers to those questions.

Mr. Jones: I don’t know.

President Greenbaum: Anything else?

Mr. Jones: I don’t know if he could. That’s it.

President Greenbaum: Thank you, Mr. Jones. Anyone else from the public? Ned, name and address for the record please.

Ned McDonald, Budd Lake: First of all, it’s not just Route 46 that has a litter problem. Several times a year, my wife and I, on our own, go out and police the road in front of our house for about a half a mile distance and each time I pick up about six bags of bottles, beer cans, etc., etc. I think if the citizens of this town would, you know, sort of clean up in front of their own yard somewhat, it would help, but that’s not what I’m here to talk about. The other thing is, Mount Olive Child Care, it gets more confusing all the time. Now it’s an addition to the building, and I hear a term of $1,750,000. Mr. Casey said that that’s about $80,000 a year of interest. Is it my….am I right? They will be paying the interest as rent? What about the principle? Where is the $1,750,000…

Mr. Dorsey: No, I think you misunderstood that, the number is not $1,750,000, the number estimated at the moment is $1,075,000 and based upon that estimate, it was estimated that they would pay to the township $80,000 a year and in the first year, $50,000 would probably go against interest, $30,000 against amortization of the principle amount, and they would have to pay both principle and interest….they would have to pay both principle and interest until the entire debt is satisfied, and then after that, they continue to make payments to the township.

Mr. McDonald: So, all costs involved with a bond issue, would not be paid….nothing would be paid for by the citizens of this town, it would all come from Mount Olive Child Care?

Mr. Dorsey: That is the….

President Greenbaum: That’s my intention.

Ms. Labow: Plus, we don’t give them the $27,000 anymore, either.

President Greenbaum: Right, we cut their funding from $27,000 per year to this year’s budget, which has $5,000 in it.

Mr. McDonald: Yes, okay. I’m a little bit taken aback that they came in and tried to fast track this in a way. I don’t think it’s right that they should be asking the town to sign letters of memorandum of understanding when we don’t know what we’re understanding. If they want to get costs worked on, I don’t know why we should have to agree to anything until they come to us with the facts.

President Greenbaum: It’s a little bit more complicated than that, but you’re technically right and the way that we’ve decided to move forward with it, is that the agreement of the township is there to move forward with this project, so that they can move forward and get the cost, and there will be a second memorandum of understanding, which is going to detail what those costs are going to be, and the first memorandum of understanding is going to say that it’s subject to an agreement between the township and Mount Olive Child Care, as to what the numbers ultimately are going to be. So, in fact, we’re agreeing to nothing at this point, other than to say that the votes are here for them to use that building if, in fact, the numbers pan out and we’re in agreement on the numbers.

Mr. McDonald: Okay. Also, I would hope that these agreements are not just a back-room deal between Mount Olive Child Care and someone in the township…

Mr. Dorsey: No, ultimately the agreements, which is what Council President is now referring to, let’s refer to it as lease, will be part of an ordinance adopted by the township.

Mr. McDonald: Alright. I would also hope that the Council would take the time to, in layman’s terms, explain what the agreement is once it’s worked out, before it is…it goes to ordinance. So that at least the public would have a more clear understanding of what really is going on, because sometimes it gets a bit confusing with all the financial and legal terms, and I think just a few minutes of layman’s terms would be helpful.

President Greenbaum: I agree with you and we’ll certainly take as much time as is necessary to go through that agreement, with regard to answering questions. The concept, from my perspective, is to lease them this building for a 25 year period. The costs to renovate the building are going to be slowly born by Mount Olive Child Care through financing, which is going to be provided by the Township of Mount Olive. The Township of Mount Olive will have a right to reclaim that building and, ultimately, the debt associated with the renovations of the building, in the event that we do reclaim it, by giving two years notice of our intent to do so. So, we retain ownership of the building and the right to get back in there in the event that our needs outweigh the needs of Mount Olive Child Care. At that point, we would have to undertake whatever additional financing remains unpaid.

Mr. McDonald: Okay, I thank you for your explanation.

President Greenbaum: Okay, thank you. Anyone else from the public? I saw Mr. Russell, name and address please for the record.

Nelson Russell, Budd Lake: A simple request. Could we have more copies of the agenda available for the public? There’s several meetings that we’ve run out, this being….

President Greenbaum: Twenty five cents a copy. We will make sure that there are additional copies out there. Is there anything else?

Mr. Russell: No, that’s it, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Thank you for pointing that out. Yes sir, name and address please.

Robert Vazzana, 15 Sunset Drive, Budd Lake: I would like to thank Mr. Guenther for addressing the berm situation at Turkey Brook. My property borders Turkey Brook Park, as a lot of you people already know. Another issue that really needs to be addressed, and I believe you people are looking into it, is the Sunset Drive situation, the volume of water that is coming off the property is eroding most of the properties on Sunset Drive. My property borders where the new speed bump is on the road there and that’s actually acting like a dam and it’s…..the water is just hitting that and it’s flooding the yards out right now, so I don’t know if we have an answer on when they’re going to be addressing the Sunset Drive repaving and curbing, or…

President Greenbaum: Mr. Buczynski.

Mr. Buczynski: Good thing I stayed. Sunset Drive…I’m trying to think, I’ve got so many projects going on….it’s going to construction in June, after school is over. It’s going to be done during the summer.

Mr. Vazzana: That’s curbing and repaving?

Mr. Buczynski: No sidewalks, just curbing and repaving and new speed tables.

Ms. Labow: How many?

Mr. Buczynski: I forgot how many, I think it’s just two.

Mr. Casey: No, Gene, those were deleted for budget purposes, we’ll have to install those later, if you remember.

Mr. Buczynski: Right.

President Greenbaum: The issue of the runoff from the property was already addressed this evening. It’s part of our plan to stabilize a portion of that back area, which will hopefully resolve and uncover the stormwater inlets that are….

Mr. Buczynski: I don’t think this….how much referring to all the way at the back, he’s referring more by the property, right?

President Greenbaum: Okay, for the front?

Ms. Labow: The middle.

President Greenbaum: The middle.

Mr. Vazzana: Yes, it’s actually eroding most of the yards is what’s happening….and every rainstorm I have between one to two wheel barrels of rock and stone and dirt that just ends up in my driveway and it’s….my yard…it’s starting to erode my yard, the lawn, like a foot to a foot and a half.

Mr. Buczynski: Along….since it happened, or back?

Mr. Vazzana: No, in front of my property on Sunset.

Mr. Buczynski: What’s your address?

Mr. Vazzana: 15.

Mr. Buczynski: I’ll look at it.

President Greenbaum: Gene, can you let us know? Thanks, and why don’t you let me know if, in fact, that issue’s being addressed by the Administration, through Gene, thank you. Colleen, did you have something?

Ms. Labow: I was just wondering, is that from the speed table they put in? Or is it from behind your house, from the speed table? The erosion…

President Greenbaum: You have to speak at the microphone, I’m sorry.

Mr. Vazzana: I don’t understand the question.

Ms. Labow: The erosion in the front, is that coming from the….created from the speed table?

Mr. Vazzana: Well, it’s from….what’s happened, no, the excessive volume of water that’s coming off of Turkey Brook, coming down Sunset now, is…you know, we have at any given heavy storm, you have four to five to six feet of water wide. You have pictures that Mr. Rec, I believe, e-mailed to most of the Council members.

Ms. Labow: Right, but what I wanted to know, how is the speed table? Is that creating more of a problem?

Mr. Vazzana: Well, what happens is, before the water would run down, it would pass that, because the speed table…’s acting as a dam right now, so it hits that and then it just washes into the yards right now.

President Greenbaum: Yes, Gene will take a look at that.

Ms. Labow: And Gene did not put that speed table in, it was not….

President Greenbaum: I understand that. Gene will take a look and he’ll get back to you.

Mr. Vazzana: And I just want you to know also, for the record, that I am very in favor of the speed bump, so I don’t want them to be removed in any way.

President Greenbaum: I can tell you also that, during these past storms that we had, I had four feet wide water running through my backyard as well. It’s just, the amount of water which came down, not that, you know, you President Greenbaum(cont’d): should have to live with runoff from Turkey Brook, but there was so much water in such a short period of time, that it was abnormal.

Mr. Vazzana: Oh yes, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public.


President Greenbaum: Final Comments. Mayor, anything?

Mayor De La Roche: No comment.

Ms. Labow: Before we go to final comments, can I just ask about the speed tables for the budget?

President Greenbaum: No. You can ask him afterwards. Mayor any comments?

Mayor De La Roche: No comment.

Mr. Buell: None.

Ms. Labow: I just want to say real quick that the cancer relay for life is coming up June 11th/June 12th. I formed a team and I will be sending out e-mails and giving notification for that. Anybody who wants to join the team, last year it was a wonderful wonderful time working throughout the day and night, and that’s it.

Mr. Guenther: None.

Mr. Rattner: None.

President Greenbaum: I have none as well. Motion to adjourn.

Mr. Guenther: So moved.

Ms. Labow: Second.

All were in favor and the Meeting adjourned at 9:41 pm.


Robert J. Greenbaum, Council President

I, LISA M. LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on May 24, 2005.


Lisa M. Lashway, Township Clerk





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