Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
February 25, 2003

The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to order at 7:30 pm by Council President Guenther with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.


MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women fighting terrorism and defending the freedom we all enjoy


According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Rattner, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Spino, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
Absent: None

Also in attendance: Mayor Licitra; Cynthia Spencer, Business Administrator; Sherry Jenkins, CFO; John Dorsey, Township Attorney; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk.


Mayor Licitra: Well, I would like to introduce Freeholder Doug Cabana who wanted to come up and add his congratulations and thanks to our championship football team. What I or Council members say tonight would be redundant upon thanking this team for it’s spirit and it’s winning the championship, so this is a Freeholder night, and it is the Freeholders that are going to honor you, so with that I would like to call Coach Kramer up to give out the certificates, and I would like to introduce the former Freeholder Director, and now Freeholder, Doug Cabana.

Freeholder Doug Cabana: Thank you Mayor. It is a great pleasure for me to be here on behalf of the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders to honor the championship Football team from Mount Olive High School. You young men know, it is not easy to be a winning team. A lot of hard work and effort went into your wins. Each and every one of them. You have a great coaching staff, you have a great community that stands behind you and the Freeholders just want to recognize that because there are not a lot of State Champions in Morris County. So I would like to applaud you. We have a citation for each of you from the Board, and we would like to take this opportunity to present that to you this evening. First off, before we begin, I have a resolution honoring your coach, James Kramer. Coach, I would just like to before we begin, present this to you. Coach of the Year, you did it all with these guys. You instilled principles of self discipline, respect and respect for others in our community and that is a great accomplishment; so coach I would like to present this to you on behalf of the Township. We have one for the Board of Education. This is a larger one of what you will be receiving and we can display this in the High School, commemorating your championship win.

Announcement of team members:

Joshua Adieyefeh Anthony Day Jeff Greco Jamar Mack Chris Sartor
Aedan Albarecht Dan DiColo Kevin Halonski Patrick McKelvie Patrick Simon
Andrew Arra Angelo Diana Dean Huer Richard Moore Dan Wallwork
James Breheney David Dondona Anthony Holland Jason Pittman Sirajj Ziyad
Joseph Caruso Richard Donofrio Joseph Houghton Daniel Priest
Michael Cieri Ryan Farrell Chris Hoyt Sean Quigly-Shann
Saimir Collaku Allen Fosmire Frank Jobeless Steven Rivera
Sean Conners John Golden Shaun Kerschner Jason Rouson
Michael Conry Stephen Goldenburg Brian Lyko Pedro Santiago

Coach: On behalf of the team and myself, I would like to say thanks to everyone in the Town and Freeholders who have been very appreciative of everything that has been bestowed upon us. Thank you very much.

Freeholder. Cabana: In closing, I would like to congratulate each and every one of you on this win. This is just a token of our appreciation. You guys have grown up in Morris County, you are the future of our County believe it or not. Twenty years ago, I was sitting where you are and know look where I am. I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but one day one of you will be a Freeholder, Council Member, the Mayor. It is a lot, so what you contribute to your community will carry on, and best of luck in your careers as athletes and your careers in college and anything that the free holder board could every do for you and your families, please feel free to give us a call because we are here to help you. Thank you.


President Guenther: Anyone from the public wish to make a public comment? Seeing no one, we will turn right to administrative matters


Mrs. Spencer: I just wanted to advise Council that I did get a response back from Schoor Depalma regarding the letter that had been discussed on February 18, regarding the Stephens Mill Estates and I will be responding to that. In fact the issue that the citizens had was that the area appeared to be disturbed and had not been further developed or cleaned up. Gene Buczynski has in fact talked with the developer and they now have contracts on the two remaining houses that will be built in that development and as soon as the weather breaks they expect to start construction and complete it in the next several months.

Mrs. Miller: Are they going to clean it up?

Mrs. Spencer: The part that is disturbed is actually the start of the driveway to houses three and four in that development. So they will finish the construction and clean up what is not proper right now.

Mrs. Miller: These people have to wait until the houses are built before they take care of any clean up at all?
Is that what you are saying?

Mrs. Spencer: I think part of the clean up will be seen as they start doing the actual construction because for some unknown reason they started the driveway and then dumped some ground asphalt, which will be removed as they are putting in the real roadway.

President Guenther: Is that all Cindy?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.


Turkey Brook Park Project Status

Mrs. Spencer: We really don’t have a status report because the weather has brought everything to a halt.

President Guenther: Okay, I just have a few things on my list here. Where do we stand with Linwood Avenue, the project there? Is there another meeting coming up?

Mrs. Spencer: The way we had left that was that after we met with the school officials, the school had a number of to do’s . They were going to look into trying to dismiss walkers and bus students and those who were being picked up by car from different doors, they were looking at traffic patterns. The citizens were going to try to do an informal one way on that road for the rest of the school year to see if it made a difference in the traffic pattern and the police were going to be looking into recommending one hour parking along Clover Hill Road.

President Guenther: Was there supposed to be a status update given to you about that?

Mrs. Spencer: I had reported back after we had that meeting; not until the Spring when we get some results from the others that are being tried.

Mr. Greenbaum: In the meantime that angled parking has been eliminated?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes, along the street on Linwood. It has been eliminated and there are now three parallel spots there.

President Guenther: Just for the public that was not here last week, we did have a workshop session about the old Municipal Building. A meeting is being arranged between our Township Engineer and the State Department of Environmental Protection to see if they could give us some guidance as to what could be done with the site in case we decided to knock all of the building down. So we are waiting for Gene Buczynski to get back to us with a date as to when that will take place, until we get that report back, we won’t proceed further. Hopefully within a couple weeks we will have something and then we can try to march forward to get a consensus as to what we want to do. The flashing light on Sandshore Road; where do we stand on that Dave?

Mr. Scapicchio: It’s included in our capital budget, half of it and the School Board has included the other half in their 2003/2004 proposed budget.

President Guenther: Okay, we will visit that sometime in the future. There was a report here again just for the public, the proposed improvements to the intersection of Flanders Netcong Road and Flanders Road and Drakesdale Road up where the swim club is, there will be a public information meeting scheduled for Wednesday March 5, 2003, at 7:00 pm in Council Chambers to give area residents a chance to see the approved plans for the improvements to that intersection. Anyone that wishes to see that and see what goes on, so that is marching forward. I just also want to give an update about a project that I had pushed for, a sign ordinance revision. There was a meeting today, the Mount Olive Chamber of Commerce where they were asked for input regarding that. Catherine Natafalusy gave a very good presentation as to where the Township Ordinance was. We had some good feedback from Chamber members, they will within a month give us something formal and then we will proceed forward again with some suggested revisions to the sign ordinance.

Mr. Spino: Since we were talking about streets I had mentioned that we should really check with the Police Department. At the Planning Board level there was a street called street A on the Trade Zone South, off of Gold Mine Road and actually goes into the road that comes into International Drive South. I am just wandering if that street has to be named or should it be named. There is no name on it as far as I know and then on the plans it was just called Street A. I would think if there is something that ever happens here, they are going to have to know.

President Guenther: What street is it?

Mr. Spino: It goes along Goldmine Road, past Lowes into International Drive South I believe. I don’t think there is a name on it.

Mrs. Lashway: I am working right now with Peter King on the Title 39 enforcement in the Trade Zone South and Officer Scott VanNess as well and the three of us have to get together because we have questions on some of the roads that might need names before that ordinance even comes to Council.

President Guenther: Okay. Did somebody else have their hand up? Seeing none.


President Guenther: Anything anybody wishes to discuss?

Mrs. Spencer: Just with regard to the first letter that was received regarding Turkey Brook dust and debris from the Macks. That has been successfully negotiated and their house is going to be power washed in the Spring at their request at the completion of the project. They have also agreed to start serving on the Mayor’s new committee for Turkey Brook concerned citizens.

President Guenther: Where do they live?

Mrs. Spencer: They are on Flanders Road.

President Guenther: Okay, anybody else? I have a couple of items. I guess it is not actually new because it had been mentioned before but it sort of was pushed up in the background, the possibility of a doggie park at Turkey Brook. I would like to bring that up again and study the possibility of that. I know that Willie Cirone had mentioned that was something that he would like to see instituted. I know that Charlene had some positive feelings about that as well. Cindy, maybe if we could meet with Willie and have him make some sort of proposal regarding that.

Mr. Spino: I think we should have him check with Randolph. I believe Randolph has one, the reason I know is that my neighbors have me to speak about that also.

President Guenther: I know Willie had some contact with Randolph, he was aware of what they were doing.

Mr. Scapicchio: I have had several conversations with Willie and he has a whole presentation that he is prepared to make for the Council.

President Guenther: Okay and maybe you can reach out to him and have it done at a workshop. Something I want to bring up to open for discussion. I was in the Municipal Building this weekend. The door here to this side of the building was locked and obviously I had to use my access key. When I came inside I found lights on in some of the rooms, for example the copy room and the cafeteria. Is there some kind of a program to shut down lights in a closed off section of the Municipal Building over the weekend? I would think it could be an energy savings means. I know you probably have to leave them in the hallways for safety’s sake, but if it is locked and not accessible to public, I don’t understand why some lights are on in some of the rooms.
I will look into that, I am sure that there is some emergency lighting that needs to be left on, but we’ll check into that because I know that normally people are encouraged to turn the lights out when they are vacating their space.

Mayor Licitra: Bernie you also have to remember the building is used on weekends and we have no control if the people turn off the lights. I know Jim is working on something, about six months ago, he’ll have something soon. But again, we can’t control it, even at night.

Mr. Rattner: The technology is there, the different means to control the lighting, I know AT & eliminated light switches and all conference rooms over 10 years ago. What they did is they replaced the regular wall switch with a motion detector and as long as you came in, you know if nothing moved, something like 15 minutes would shut it off. I imagine if it was really lethargic, you could have it go dark. That is the way they would control their electric bill and obviously when you have millions of square feet, it can make a big difference and it worked out very very well.

President Guenther: Anyone else? Okay, that is all I had.


Mr. Dorsey: Just two things, we filed what we hope is our final brief in the Mount Olive Complex case opposing their second request for certification. I gave a copy to Councilman Greenbaum, he says the case is dead. I don’t know what I will do without that career case. I mentioned it to Judge Stanton the other day at an informal gathering and he immediately told me that a lot of towns in Sussex County were now going to five acres. Number two; there is a serious matter involving Planning Board. At the first hearing, I think it was the first hearing relative to Crown Towers, the applicants attorney challenged down Nelson on the basis that he resides and owns property within 200ft. and Nelson Russell must step down. Anyway, he is a class four member. The Mayor has the right to appoint a substitute for Mr. Nelson in connection with this application and since the Mayor’s Appointment of Class Four Members does not require any approval for any action by the Council, Mayor you are free to make an appointment, are you with me Mayor?

Mayor Licitra: I am listening to you John, I am also looking at the red green and yellow map too as I am listening to you.

Mr. Dorsey: Okay, anyway you are free to make that appointment anytime you want to replace an alternate for this application. The second is perhaps more interesting and complex is that your Council appointed to the Planning Board has now rescuesed himself. Under our ordinance the Council has the right to replace that. Mr. Greenbaum as the Class III member at least for this application. Mr. Greenbaum would continue on the Planning Board for all other applications. In order to do that the Council would have to make a resolution to appoint one of your members to be the Alternate for Mr. Greenbaum in connection with Crown Towers. There’s an obvious senior member who has had long Planning Board service, but anyway it will require a motion/ resolution to appoint one of your members to fill in for Mr. Greenbaum as the Class III Alternate.

Mr. Rattner: Can we do that right now?

Mr. Dorsey: Yes you can.

Mr. Perkins made a motion to appoint Earl Spino to fill the position as Planning Board Member Class III Alternate for the Crown Tower application. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Greenbaum; abstained.


December 10, 2002 Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Spino, President Scapicchio, Mr. Guenther (8:35 pm)
Absent: None

Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to approve the minutes of December 10, 2002; Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.


Letters from Residents

1. Letter received February 12, 2003, from Mary and Shamus Mack regarding Dust and Debris from the Turkey Brook Park Development Project.

Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from Other Municipalities

2. Resolution received February 10, 2003, from Rockaway Township regarding Amending the Budget Cap Law.

3. Resolution received February 13, 2003, from the Township of Parsippany-Troy Hills regarding Permitting Volunteer Firefighters and Emergency Services Personnel to participate in the Health Benefits Program in Municipalities in which they volunteer.

League of Municipalities

4. Letter received February 10, 2003, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Local Crisis management and Security Preparation.

DOT / DEP / Permit’s / LOI’s

5. Letter received February 12, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Permit for Applicant: HMUA for Block 8400, Lot 1 (Northeast of Drakestown Road) for Permit to Construct additions and alterations to an existing water distribution system comprising the remaining 3,835 L.F. of 8 inch CLDIP Water Main extension to serve Woodfield (aka Bartley Ridge) Sections IIB, IIIA, IIIB & IIIC, a 106 SFD and 90 townhouse subdivision; and Operate the facilities approved by this permit and distribute water for potable purposes from said works.

6. Letter received February 12, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Permit Applicant: HMUA for Block 8400, Lot 9 (North of Drakestown Road) for Permit to Construct additions and alterations to an existing water distribution system comprising 2,100 L.F. of 6, 8 and 12 inch DIP Water Main extension along Drakestown Road to serve Paragon Village Assisted Living Facility; and Operate the facilities approved by this permit and distribute water for portable purposes for said works.

7. Letter received February 13, 2003, from Gary Kraemer regarding DOT Project / Flanders Drakestown Road.
Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards

8. Primary Equalization table for the County of Morris for the year 2003 received February 12, 2003, from the County of Morris.

9. Letter received February 13, 2003, from Delaware Riverkeeper regarding NJ State Proposed Stormwater Regulations.

10. Letter received February 13, 2003, from the Mount Olive Township Historical Society regarding the Seward Mansion.


11. Minutes received February 10, 2003, from the Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding the January 8th Minutes.

Utilities / Cable

12. Fax received February 11, 2003, from Comcast regarding CMT, Bunnvale Library, High School Sports, and Franchise Checks.

13. Letter received February 18, 2003, from NUI Utilities, Inc. D/B/A Elizabeth Gas Company regarding Notice of Public Hearings.

Legislative Representatives

14. Letter received February 10, 2003, from Senator Bucco, thanking us for the Resolution we previously sent to him.

15. Letter received February 20, 2003, from James McGreevey regarding Fiscal Year 2004 Budget.

President Guenther stated there are 15 items of correspondence on the agenda and asked if council had any comments on same.

Mr. Rattner: I have one concern, it is the last item of correspondence we have from the Governor, I if he has that kind of economic budget problems, I think he could stop sending us all this stupid mail telling us about all the things he is doing and asking for help.
President Guenther I’m just trying to calculate. How many municipalities do we have? 530 or something? Average of what, seven per town; that’s 3,500 stamps that he spends in sending it to our homes.

Mr. Rattner: And probably a three person office putting it together too.

Mr. Perkins: He’s telling us he is not going to give us any money for our school anymore.

President Guenther: Any further comments? Seeing none.


Ord.#12-2003 An Ordinance Changing the Name of Various Streets. (Valley View Drive South to Sowers Drive, Valley View North Drive to Brock Lane and Turkey Brook Court to McCain Court)

President Guenther opened the hearing to the public on Ordinance #12-2003.

Jennifer Mahns, 22 Valley Road South, Hackettstown: I am here to petition against the ordinance. As you
may know, all of the residents that live on this street have already been through the change of address process,
we have been to the Division of Motor Vehicles, we have been to our financial institutions, called our credit card
companies, changed stationary work forms. We have done all of this. There was some initial confusion with our mail being delivered when we first moved in because the builders told us our address was Mt. Olive and gave us a Hackettstown zip code. There was some confusion initially when I found out the zip code was in fact Hackettstown, I started telling my credit card companies it’s Hackettstown, not Mt. Olive. My mail has been coming in a very timely fashion since then I have spoken with other residents of the street, we have not had any problem with the mail coming. Emergency workers have been coming. I needed to call an ambulance in fact for my son, and the ambulance was at our home in less than five minutes. There was no confusion at all finding the street. We are largely opposed to the change of address form only because of the inconvenience. We all work full time jobs and would have to go though this process all over again. New checks, another new driver’s license. What I do propose is if you do need to change it, if you don’t want Valley View Road South, it might be easier to just change it to Valley View Lane/Boulevard/Avenue rather than a completely different name which would require the entire change of address process all over again. If it just changed from Drive to Lane, it wouldn’t necessarily cause a problem if people had to wait a month or so to go to the DMV to the financial institutions rather than having to get out again right away. I had to take time off of work, personally to go to the DMV, to go to my bank to get the paperwork that I needed, the insurance company, new insurance cards. It’s a lot of work to change your address. It really is. It is not a simple matter of making a few phone calls. It does take a lot of legwork and time. We were really hoping that you would consider an easier change. Something that might be a little bit easier on the residents of the street. I also do have a petition with some of our residents signatures. If someone would like to take this, this is what I have.

Mr. Scapicchio: This was brought to us because we were told there was confusion with the Police Department and the emergency squads.
Mr. Rattner: Dave it was the Post Office.

Mrs. Mahns: The post office initially said that they did have a problem but when I was at the closing for my home, the builders told me your address is Mount Olive and gave me the Hackettstown zip code and I believe that is where the confusion came from because the post office was looking for Valley View Road in Mount Olive and they had a Hackettstown zip code, so of course that would create some confusion. If you live in Flanders and you are giving people a Wharton zip code, of course it is going to create confusion as to where the mail should go. Also, I am aware that there is a Valley View Road in Hackettstown in addition to the Valley View Road South which is why I was proposing the possibility of being Valley View Boulevard or Avenue. Something that would be a little bit easier that would show a clear change without being as much as an inconvenience to the residents of the Street.

President Guenther: Dave, any further comment? This is a different situation from Drakestown Road. Drakestown Road was more changing the numbers because it got to be an issue with Emergency services. That has been going on for years and years; I think obviously the residents there embraced it. Here is a case of the post office in Hackettstown saying there is confusion because they have a Valley View, and I don’t know whether it is road, Lane, Boulevard. It really doesn’t make any difference, in my experience in Real Estate where you have a street where one is named drive and one is named Avenue or Lane or something. It is just as confusing. If you are going to change, you may as well make a drastic change. That is just my personal opinion.

Nick LaForte, 36 Valley View Road South: There has been some confusion with the mail. I have been speaking with the Hackettstown postmaster and there is a Valley View Road South which is us, East and West in Hackettstown. The mail has been going all over. I am getting other people’s mail. My American Express card did not get delivered this month which was a problem because I don’t know how much to pay them. It was returned, I guess the post office said there is no such address. It has been confusing. I don’t know where we are in the process of what happens here, but it would have been nice if we were notified about a change and if we could have had some input on if there was going to be a change.

President Guenther: This is your opportunity for the input. If you read the ordinance, it does not take effect for three months, even if it passes tonight. So it is the purpose of this meeting tonight to get your input.

Mr. LaForte: I understand that, but where is it is the process? Is it too late to make a change of name?

Mr. Dorsey: It is not too late to make a change. We can amend the ordinance.

Mr. LaForte: My name is LaForte; L-a-F-o-r-t-e and when I go to a restaurant, I have to spell it all the time, so I say Smith when I go into a restaurant. I don’t know why Sowers was picked. I don’t know where the name came from. I guess I was told tonight, that it’s the people who owned the land originally or something like that.

Mayor Licitra: We have been honoring either our Civil War Veterans or our World War II Veterans by the naming of the street in Mt. Olive.

Mr. LaForte: Well I am not going to stand here and go against the Veterans. I would hate to have to spell Sowers every time I have to do this. That was my only other consideration for you guys is that if you can make it Sunset or Sunrise, or Smith, or something like that.

President Guenther: Sir, we already have a Sunset, Sunrise and two Smiths.

Mr. LaForte: Mt. Olive is a nice town, we are glad we moved here, but there has got to be some names that are simple that we could use. It has created confusion, up until today it has created confusion; I know you have to do something about it. That is unfortunate. I don’t know how you can not do it. I am here because it is a problem.

Mr. Spino: This was not our idea. As Mr. Scapicchio said, it was recommended. Usually it’s recommended by the Police or the Rescue Squads. This happened to be recommended by the Hackettstown Post Office. Maybe it was because there is some confusion. I would not doubt it.

Mr. LaForte: I think a lot of the confusion is the post office. I didn’t get mail because the post office person said I need your apartment number and I said I live in a home and she would not deliver the mail. So it is not only the names, I think the post office is a little confused with all due respect to the people in the post office. So, if there is any way you can make this simpler or easier for us because of all the changes, and then do it again, we would appreciate it. By the way, thank you all for your time for doing this. I am new to the whole State of New Jersey; I know you guys all volunteer and do this.
Mrs. Miller: What was the street name before you had to change it?

Mr. LaForte: The Town changed.

Mrs. Mahns: This is a brand new development.

Mrs. Miller: You are talking because you moved.

Mr. Spino: When they moved here they had to have change of addresses.

Mr. Rattner: When they moved in they were told they were told the address would be Mt. Olive, so they had to change it again. SO it was changed when they moved, changed again and now it is going to be a fourth time.

President Guenther: One of the reasons sir, and this has been going on for many years, it had been a favorite ploy of the builders to sometimes name the streets for all their children or grandchildren. They did not do that in this case. Years ago, the Township set up a list of names with the Planning Department that had some historical significance, and in this case I guess it is Veterans that were chosen. It had never really been enforced. We have been pushing the Planning Board on that more. Now you are probably right, at the stage which this should be done, is really in the planning stage, the stage when a project gets approved. I would say to Rob, who is our representative on the Planning Board that maybe they should pay a little bit more attention to this in the future and also that the builders are made aware as to what zip code they are in.

Mr. Spino: That is the key, Mr. Guenther. The fact is that the Planning Board does do exactly that. They send it to the emergency squads and they do ask if there are any similar sounding names and we have had that happen. I think what happens here is because that section of Town gets it’s mail from Hackettstown, nobody checked with Hackettstown to say, will this be confusing. It is confusing and they didn’t know about it. So, I don’t know what we could really do, but we will try to accommodate.

President Guenther: Thank you Mr. LaForte.

Mr. Greenbaum: I can say that not one of us wants to put anybody through anything unnecessary and I understand your concerns and we talked about giving you enough lead time because we realize what a hassle this is going to be. It is a hassle, there is no doubt about it. We all feel bad for you and we were trying to address a problem which was raised to us. I feel bad, but I still believe it’s a problem and it needs to be addressed. I wish there was an easier way and I don’t believe as Bernie said that just by changing the Lane, Drive or Street that this will solve the problem.

Gail Peterson, Hackettstown: I am a former resident of Flanders, now a resident of Hackettstown, so I have been in Town for about eight years and I was wondering if they may be able to change the number of the houses, instead of forty to make it 400. Would that make a difference in streets?

President Guenther: Whatever it is down in Hackettstown, the numbers do run high, it a very long street, It is a loop road, at least the eastern part. They are quite long roads and the numbers run fairly high. That’s like a jigsaw puzzle, where don’t you have a number, can you intersperse the number. So I think that is probably a bit too complicated.

Mr. Spino: It’s the name of the street that is confusing.

Mrs. Peterson: I do believe that Valley View Drive North is still undeveloped.

President Guenther: That’s one of the reasons why we are changing it now, so the people that move in will not have the problems you are having.

Mrs. Peterson: Can we be Brock Lane instead of Sowers Drive since we live there already? Brock Lane is just so much easier to deal with than Sowers Drive. People don’t live on Valley View Drive North yet.

Mr. Spino: We could just reverse them.

Mrs. Peterson: So that is an option that could may be take place since we are already residents, maybe we could have preference of our street name.

President Guenther: As far as I am concerned I don’t see any problem with that, you hear the other Council Members say the same. Mount Olive is not unique in this and there are other Towns that have the same problems with the service by several zip codes. Roxbury is especially bad, where they have four major zip codes that are servicing them. I’ll tell you, working as a real estate agent I get people that are out of State, they are just absolutely confused. It takes me two months to explain to people how the system in New Jersey works, that you have the name of a Township, but that Township does not have a post office. I’ve seen it happen in other towns where they have been able to consolidate under one zip code. How difficult is that to do for our town to really try to consolidate under one or two zip codes?

Mr. Dorsey: That is all up to the U.S postal system.

Mr. Spino: I don’t think you need one. You can have more than one; you just have to have one Township name with different codes.

President Guenther: No, no, but I am saying why the confusion is, for example Mrs. Peterson who just came up she said she lives in Hackettstown, I don’t blame her for saying that because that is where the mail comes, but she is a part of Mt. Olive.

Mr. Spino: I said, we could change it, I believe there was a law; I think it was Congressman Zimmer that had it passed that said you can do that, you could get all the Town mail under one name.

President Guenther: Something has to be done with the postal system in that part of Town. We are having a lot of development up there now; we have close to 300 homes that are in the Hackettstown zip code, to get Hackettstown to secede that from the Hackettstown Post Office and make it part of Budd Lake.

Mr. Spino: If you are really interested, then we should look into it.

President Guenther: I think we should look into that. I just have a comment on this problem. Mt. Olive is actually serviced by six zip codes. First of all, there is nothing from stopping anybody from putting Mt. Olive in the correct zip code. This is all the time. The post office only requires the correct zip code, you could put whatever city name you want in front of it. It’s going to go to the correct zip code. Secondly, I would like to make a suggestion on how we could avoid this problem in the future. I would suggest that starting immediately and maybe once every six months, we go to the other four zip codes, those Townships or towns, Hackettstown, Chester, Stanhope and Long Valley actually Washington Township and request from them an updated street listing that our Planning Board would have and anytime any development is proposed in the Town, the first thing the Planner does is look at these four other zip codes and see if the streets that are being planned for our town are in any of the other four towns. Very simple, if they are, those three names are out and that would hopefully prevent but obviously we need to update this maybe every six months to make sure as new streets are named in other names, this would help us avoid the inconvenience so people would not have to go through this in the future.

Howie Weiss, Flanders: I thought I should maybe clarify the procedure a little bit, I am a member of the Planning Board and I am the chairperson of the street naming committee, so Bernie, I take a little exception to what you said, I won’t get angry at you like Rob did. Basically there is a very well thought out process about street naming. When an application comes in front of the Planning Board. The process is pretty much as you explained it, it goes to the Police, the First Aid, apparently the post office is important and in this case there was an oversight with Hackettstown. Now this community was developed long before this committee started on the Planning Board but it came to us from the Hackettstown postmaster through our Tax Assessor explaining that there’s a conflict. The street naming committee works very closely with the Historical Society coming up with names. Gail, your suggestion doesn’t really matter to me as the chairman of the Committee whether Brock or Sowers is the right side or the left side, that would have to be amended by Council, but the Planning Board does do great research into naming names and as Mr. Greenbaum said, we don’t really want to put anybody out, but there is a process that we have to follow. Perhaps the problem comes from the post office not so much the Council or the Planning Board. Maybe a petition to the post office is the way to go here, but we could only do what we are told we can do and so there is a little bit of a problem here coming from the post office. It is a well thought out process, it is not just picking names out of a hat. So I just wanted to make sure the record is straight in how we go about doing it.

President Guenther: Howie, I was not reflecting the work of your Committee. What I was talking about is what happened before you had that committee and I remember this goes back many many years where we talked about having registered names. I’ll name you any number of developments, Wyndam Pointe; they should have put names of these illustrious citizens there too and they didn’t. It is Vista Drive and very innocuous names. I have a suggestion, but go ahead Dave.

Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, I would like to make a motion that we amend this ordinance that is in front of us to read as follows. That we change Valley View Drive South to Brock Lane and Valley View Drive North to Sowers Drive an that the Ordinance shall take effect four months after the final adoption and publication to hopefully ease the

Mr. Dorsey: David, lets make your motion to make that change. Then what we will do is we will carry the public hearing for one month because you are amending the ordinance and it will still be almost four months before it goes into affect after it is finally adopted.

Mr. Spino: If that is a motion, I will second it.

Mr. Dorsey: Now there is a motion to amend the ordinance and a second so that Valley View Drive South will be Brock Lane and Valley View Drive North will be Sowers Drive. Lets take a vote on that.

President Guenther: Any discussion from Council? Steve?

Mr. Rattner: I just want a confirmation before the final vote that Valley View North does not have any residenc because I don’t want them coming in and saying why did you like these other people better?

Mrs. Lashway: Unless the house has been sold within the past day or two, as the preparation of this.

Mr. Rattner: I just wanted that as of now, I understand that.

President Guenther: Okay, that is our understanding.

Mayor Licitra: I envisioned this and it’s starting to become a Linwood Drive. Lets make sure we cover all our bases, go back to the post office, tell them what you are doing before. Tell them what the amendment is going to be. Get their permission from it, they were the ones that came to you in the first place. We don’t want them coming in or sending us a letter, and then you are going to have to change this whole thing around and do it all over again. Lets get it right the first time. Lets make sure that we get their reasoning, their permission or whatever we need because they are a much more powerful force than we are if they ask for something. I can understand, it sounds very common sense to me, but common sense is thrown out the window sometimes in Government.

President Guenther: My suggestion is, we vote on the amendment. I think in the time it takes to republish and re-notice and all of that, we could check with the post office to make sure it’s okay, and we could always amend it again. But it seems to be from the opinion we have had, that Valley View Drive North is not inhabited at this time, so I think we should go ahead on that assumption otherwise we will keep delaying this forever.

Mr. Spino: Well, we are going to have a month anyway; we are not going to hear it again for a month.

President Guenther: Exactly, and in the meantime if somebody from the Administration can approach the Post Office announce this change by them to make sure that is okay.

Mrs. Lashway: So the Public Hearing on this will be March 25, 2003.

President Guenther: Now we are going to vote on the Amendment.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Mrs. Peterson: I just wanted to ask a question. If we wrote Mt. Olive and wrote the Hackettstown zip code; maybe now that the name changed to Brock vs. Valley View, it would get to our house then? Would we be able to do that?
President Guenther: Actually what happens if you know how the post office works, they only read numbers, and they don’t even read the names. As long as you have the zip code, it will get there.

Mr. Rattner: Mr. Guenther, what is going to happen if somebody handwrites it because they use an optical reader.
If it can’t be read, it is then done manually, and then the number is not going to be taken, the Town is going to be taking its priority. You will end up having more problems again

Mr. Dorsey: Don’t do anything until this Ordinance is adopted a month from now.

Mr. Rattner made a motion to continue the public hearing until March 25, 2003. Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.
ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Guenther: In conjunction with this Mayor I would like to investigate the possibility of seeing if we can annex that part of the Hackettstown zip code and make it part of specifically Budd Lake, which is exclusively a Mt. Olive zip code. I don’t know what the process is, but I think we should at least investigate it.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd reading March 11, 2003)

Ord.#13-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive to Require Contributions for Maintenance of
Detention and/or Retention Basins.

Mr. Greenbaum moved that Ord.#13-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on March 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to Publish, Post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

Mrs. Spencer: I just want it noted that we will also be preparing a resolution which will allow us to set this up so that it will be a trust that the funds will be kept in for the 25 year period so that Administration will be presenting a resolution which will set it up and get it acknowledged by the State.

Mr. Greenbaum: With the new storm water management regulations which are going to be going into place, I am not sure that on a going forward basis that the detention and retention basins are going to be part of applications. I don’t know for sure, but that was one of the issues subject to the regulations.

Mr. Dorsey: Let’s go forward with the ordinance at this time, because those regulations have not been adopted.

Ord.#14-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing and Adopting a Stormwater Management Plan for the Township of Mount Olive.

Mrs. Miller moved that Ord.#14-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on March 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road Mount Olive New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to Publish, Post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Ord.#15-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Fee of $5.00 for the Preparation of a Duplicate Tax Bill.

Mr. Spino moved that Ord.#15-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on March 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road Mount Olive, New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to Publish, Post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion?

Mrs. Miller: It can’t take too long to run off a duplicate tax bill on the computer. You just pull your lot and block number and you can run off a new bill. These bills are sent out about once a year? Then you have to bring them in and get them stamped and pay them. I could understand how one bill that you get once a year that you have to pay four times a year could possibly be misplaced and for a resident to have to pay $5.00 everytime someone comes in and can’t find their bill, I think it is a little steep. They could possibly end up paying $20.00 if they can’t find the original bill. I would like to reconsider this one a little more.

Mr. Rattner: There is a certain amount of time that goes into preparing the bill. Basically, you get the bill with your four coupons on it. I get my mortgage book with 12 coupons and I know that if I loose something, for one thing, you can pay your bill without having the coupon. How much do I owe and pay if that’s the way you are going to pay. But if somebody is going to come in and ask for something outside of the normal operations, I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a minimal fee. I don’t think the $5.00 is that much. As I said, your coupons, the first two are the same, the second two are the same amount. You can call and just ask for the amount and deposit it with your block and lot number, so I don’t think it is unreasonable to make somebody stop what they are doing, go print it out and give it to you.

Mrs. Miller: Okay, I could understand Steve’s logic if you get a mortgage booklet. To print out a booklet, yes that costs money, but to print out one page, I think its overkill.

President Guenther: Any other comments? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mrs. Miller; voted no.

Ord.#16-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Fee of $25.00 for the Preparation of a Certificate of Redemption.

Mr. Perkins moved that Ord.#16-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on March 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to Publish, Post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mrs. Miller; voted no.


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Ilmar Aasma, Approval for a Waiver for December 2002 EDU Assessment for Lot 3 Block 2906.

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township RE: Chris and Donna Werge, Request for a Reduction in EDU’s for Lot 2 Block 2410.

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Amending the Temporary Budget for 2003 for the Current Budget.

4. Resolution of the Mayor and Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Reducing the Performance Guarantees for Oak Hill II and Mine Hill Road.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Execution of a Non-Binding Agreement with Morris Regional Public Health Partnership.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Storr Tractor for Turf Maintenance Equipment for Mount Olive Township.

7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Approving Professional Service Contracts for Certified Valuations, Integra, Krauser & Cirz, Edward Buzak, Robert Michaels & Associates, Kupper Associates and Clark, Caton & Hintz for the Year 2003.

President Guenther: Are there any resolutions here that any Council Member would like to have excluded?

Mr. Spino: Just a question, a question I used to ask quite often. On Resolution Number 4, does anyone know if their taxes have been paid?

Mrs. Lashway: That is not a requirement that we…

Mr. Spino: I know.

Mr. Dorsey: We could find out.

Mr. Rattner: Resolution No. 3, whereas amending the temporary budget, not what we are going to have for the final budget. The temporary budget, that is to provide enough funds to pay our past bills for snow removal and make sure we have enough to get through the season. At this point we will still have to discuss and decide how much we want to put in for the general budget before we pass it. This is only a temporary, we still have to decide and so this won’t have any effect at this point. We have to address it in the budget that the Mayor had given us previously so this will be probably an ad on if we could find other savings, we’ll be lucky, if not then it could have an effect.

President Guenther: Thank you for the explanation,Steve. Any other comments?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to approve Consent Resolutions 1 through 7. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.




1. Bill List.

Mr. Rattner moved for approval of the Bill List; Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

Mr. Scapicchio: Council Discussion? I just saw several checks here to Ford Credit Company for rents of uniform, an FYI for myself. I am sure it’s no big deal. .

Mrs. Spencer: I see one, but it is Ford Motor Credit Company for a lease payment.

Mr. Scapicchio: No there was one for uniforms.

Mrs. Spencer: I will check on it

Mr. Scapicchio: Okay. I don’t want to hold the Bill list up, I just haven’t seen that and I…

Mayor Licitra: David, I have to tell you, I agree with Cindy.

Mr. Scapicchio: Here’s the one for the lease, that’s not the one I am questioning. The other one I am question is on Page 24 in the amount of$286.86, rents, leases and uniforms.

President Guenther: That’s probably just the category and that’s what it’s called. Probably that lease, the vehicle.

Mr. Scapicchio: The lease is on the other page, it was for $1,200.00

Mrs. Spencer: Well, but this is now under utilities.

Mr. Scapicchio: O’h you mean they’re splitting it up?

Mrs. Spencer: They are split up. I know that they do that because now you are in water. That is what they are doing, they are apportioning the correct amounts.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

2. Approval of an Application to Amend Bingo License #1050 for the Budd Lake Fire Department; Approval of Raffle Application #1065 & #1066 for the Mt. Olive High School Band Boosters Association.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of all raffle applications listed above, Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

Mr. Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously


Library Board Liaison Report

Mr. Scapicchio: As of today, the bid documents are available as of 9:00 am this morning. They are available at the architects office at 52 West Main Street in Somerville. There is a mandatory prebid conference scheduled for Friday February 28, 2003, and that is here at the Council Chambers at 10:00 am, the bid opening is also here in the Council Chambers and that is for March 24, 2003, at 2:00 pm. Following that opening and the acceptance of those documents, they’ll be forwarded over to Mr. Dorsey, I guess for his legal review. Once it goes through that process, the Council probably will be asked to approve a contract and as you all know through our budget hearing on Saturday, the Library came back and wanted us to bond an additional $120,000 to fund the construction manager that they have hired that has been working with them during this preconstruction process. So that is another issue that we will have to discuss at some later date.

Recreation Report

President Guenther: There has not been a meeting. There will be one next week but there should be some fireworks. There seems to be a lot of discussion regarding the rules and regulations on the parks, specifically Turkey Brook. I believe the meeting is next Wednesday, so next week if anybody wishes to participate in that we have that meeting back in the Planning Board conference room

Board of Health Report

Mr. Perkins: The Board of Health had the reorganization meeting, as you know we have one new member who has come on Board, Dr. Wallack and there is no other further business.

Planning Board Report

Mr. Greenbaum: The Planning Board meets the second and third Thursdays of every month, therefore, there are two Planning Board Meetings which occurred since the last time I gave a report at a public meeting. The first meeting was the Crown Tower meeting which Mr. Dorsey already addressed. Just prior to the application in housekeeping matters quote on quote, Mr. Haul, Attorney for the applicant made some comments about how he didn’t think the people that were in the audience at the time of the original application and now were sitting on the Board could fairly decide this issue. It was obvious he was talking about me. I had questioned the fact that he had questioned my integrity and decide that although I did not believe I had a conflict, that I would recuse myself and raise the issue at that time that I was disappointed that he waited until the application was actually heard to raise the conflict issue which did not allow enough time for us to prepare a response, ultimately the application was adjourned and we had subsequently taken action. In accordance with that Mr. Dorsey, I am getting an opinion from Mr. Busak as to what my participation may be from the audience. I wonder if you had any concerns or comments that you could also let me in on. It does not have to be done right now.

Mr. Dorsey: My thought is if you disqualify yourself as a Planning Board Member you don’t give up your rights as a citizen.

Mrs. Miller: John, I have a question. I think what they are referring to is when you spoke in behalf of the Environmental Commission, tell her that this is a completely new application and he has not been on the Environmental Commission so he has no idea what the environmental commission feels towards this application so I don’t see how this would affect his judgment. Does that make sense?

Mr. Dorsey: Mr. Greenbaum did not have to recuse himself, but he has recused himself and that is his own personnel choice and we have to be guided by that. It was inappropriate for Mr. Paul to challenge his integrity if indeed that was the basis for it but he’s recused himself. I think he could participate as any other citizen would.

Mr. Greenbaum: Thank you. The other Planning Board meeting dealt with one application, it was the Residence Inn. It is in the Trade Center next to the Wyndam. It basically is a 120 something room, four story long stay hotel. They are building it in the existing parking lot. There was no further disturbance to any undisturbed land and it received preliminary and final approval.
Open Space Committee Report

Mrs. Miller: I have no report. I didn’t attend the meeting; I was not feeling well.

Legislative Committee Report

Mr. Spino: No report at this time.

Pride Committee Report:

Mr. Perkins: Thank you, Mr. President. There was a meeting back in January. The minutes will be distributed to the Council Members. There is a meeting going on this evening. They have already reviewed their Budget and are eagerly awaiting adoption and approval of our final budget to go ahead and start getting some beautification items for the Township.

Status of Committee RE: Lake/Environment Issues

Mrs. Miller: I just received an email from Cindy today that it is going to be postponed until next month.

Board of Education Report

Mr. Scapicchio: Yesterday the Board of Education presented their proposed 2003/2004 Budget. Mr. Rattner and I were there. I will just go over briefly some of their high points. Their proposed 2003/2004 budget is $60,212,499.00. An increase over last year of $4,755,891.00. According to their calculations, an average home assed at $187,600; your 2002 school tax would equal 3,933.97 which is an increase over last year over $211.99 and they have even broken it down per month and the monthly cost for the additional is $17.67. We were one of the few districts in the County who got additional State Aid in the amount of $14,890,128.00 that Mount Olive Township receives. Those are some of the high points.

Mr. Rattner: The tax increase that they are proposing is about 5.6%. Just for comparison, it is about equivalent to what we are proposing on ours. I could break down the three major areas of cost increases; first is staffing, they stated that they have something like 240 students this year over the number they had last year. Of the instruction of the staffing that they are putting in, it appears that about half have to do with requirements for special education. They actually have to hire some nurses for certain Special Education students that require medical health during the day that they have to provide a one on one nurse. They explained that they have been keeping more and more in the system rather than have to send out at cost that can run up to $50,000 - $60,000 to find an appropriate place for some of these children. With the increased staffing, the next major item would be the temporary classrooms which are going to be built in front of the high school, they are proposing eight classrooms. The last thing is capital expenditures. They really had very very little in capital expenditures, probably the most expensive is to reconfigure and repave the parking lot at Sandshore School. It is partly related in that it has to be upgraded because of deterioration and the other has to do with the safety which we discussed here which had to do with the blinking light. According to their calculations it is a very expensive project which I am not sure I really understand that part. Those are probably the three biggest areas other than the normal increases, the four percent in payroll, and their increases that they have had in health insurance. They are probably going to be out advertising it for the next two months and we’ll have to really get involved with it to see what it is and I guess we have to be prepared as we are each year in case it comes to us.

President Guenther: Steve, I’m sorry I caught the tail end of it, that the light at Sandshore Road is considered very expensive.

Mr. Rattner: They have been talking about reconfiguring the driveway and parking lots of Sandshore School because of safety and now because of deteriorations. When we were discussing the light we said part of the problem is the configuration of the parking lot and the way people come out, that is what the Police Department had told us. Now they did put a large amount, they have done it before and that is usually the first thing they get cut. It is just that it is a very expensive project that they have in there.

President Guenther: Okay. That is it for Council Comments.


Jerry Roskoff, Budd Lake: I guess I will rehash something that you guys went through about that address change with the Hackettstown zip code. Why can’t the administration send the letter to the postmaster of Hackettstown telling them these are Mount Olive Residents, the streets are in Mount Olive, they pay their taxes to Mount Olive and they send their kids to Mount Olive, you want a zip code change to reflect the Mount Olive residents. It is as simple as that. They will either say yes or no.

President Guenther: They will probably come back and say there is some sort of other procedure, but that’s okay, that is a good way to start.

Mr. Roskoff: This way nobody would have to make any changes at all except for the zip code.

President Guenther: That is going to take time, you know that.

Mr. Roskoff: The first trip starts with that first step forward.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: First, on the Planning Board issue of appointing Mr. Spino to the Planning Board, I may be wrong but I believe that besides it being a Mount Olive Ordinance, I believe that it is also a State Statute, that t one of the members of the Council should also be a member of the Planning Board. Is that correct?

Mr. Greenbaum: But there are legal issues that have been looked at and discussed and it’s been addressed.

Mr. Bonte: The importance here is that it will most likely be a long hearing and the Township Council deservingly has a right to have a member on that body, considering that this tract is about three percent of the total size of the Township. With that I have nothing else to say on that matter. I do have a couple of comments regarding the first reading on ordinance numbers 13 and 14. On Ordinance No. 13 which is the detension basins, you go through a rather elaborate procedure for determining what the annual maintenance costs on these basins are going to be. Then after going through that rather elaborate prescribed procedure, we merely multiplied that number by 25. I don’t see how that will insure that the money will be there for the 25 year period to maintain these basins.

President Guenther: I would like to address that. The original proposal was the following, that there be a cost of living escalator for lack of a better term, but at the same time the developer would be given a credit for accured interest. What I saw as a flaw in that was that the interest that he was going to be given credit for was going to be higher than the cost of living escalator which to me meant you are going to start decreasing the amount accumulating in the front. It was eight percent vs. six percent.

Mr. Spino: We were told that it was his formula that he prepared, but it was State recommendations.

Mr. Bonte: I am not challenging the credentials of Mr. Buczynski, but if this was the case everybody would put their money in savings accounts because we would all have more money. Everybody knows that it actually works the other way. What I would propose is that the developer require to purchase an annuity, that would guarantee that this would happen over that 25 year project and the money would come from some third party source. That would be my proposal, that the Township receive the correct amount of dollars in every out year and insurance companies are great at doing this kind of stuff. It would probably cost the developers less money to do that also because the insurance companies would make better use in investing the money over that 25 year period than we would ever do and it would guarantee that the money would be there. Just a thought. I know what you want to do, one of the comments I have is why is it under 25 years? The other question I have is regarding the Stormwater Management Plan. It doesn’t make any reference in here to what I heard at the Planning Board a couple of weeks ago. That was that the new Stormwater Management Plan the Township has prepared is in complete compliance with the new proposed DEP regulations. Does anybody know if that statement that was made by the Engineer that was here that night is in fact true?

Mr. Dorsey: Peter, did you get that from Buczynski?

Mr. King: I got all of the information from Buczynski.
Mr. Dorsey: We have to question him at the public hearing.

Mr. Bonte: I presume this document is available for viewing by the public before that hearing? Do we have that document here in this building? The revised Stormwater Management Plan.

Mr. Dorsey: You know better than anybody else, those are 400 pages on the DEP…

Mr. Bonte: That’s correct, but what I want to find out is, does our document say what is in the State document? Is it here in the building?

Mr. Greenbaum: Lisa, can you make my copy available to Rich? Rich you could take my copy and review it at your leisure.

Mr. Bonte: The other question I had was that it states in here that we will adopt the Stormwater Management Plan as an intricate part of the Master Plan by the time of the next re-examination of the Master Plan.

Mr. Spino: We are working on a review of it now.

Mr. Bonte: But do we have any idea when this would actually…

Mr. Spino: If it was discussed, I don’t remember to be honest with you.

Mr. Bonte: I guess what I am looking at is to see where we are time wise with all of these matters, because they are extremely important to the development of the Township from here on out, I guess what my concern is that this Stormwater Management Plan adoption is now hanging on the back of something else. If that something else does not happen for a year for example, our Stormwater Management Plan does not happen.

Mr. Dorsey: You know I look at this; “Whereas the Township Planning Board shall adopt the Stormwater Management Plan as an integral part of its Master Plan by the time the next reexamination of the Master Plan” really is not consequential to this ordinance because “Therefore be it ordained the Township does hereby adopt the Stormwater Management plan prepared by Schoor Depalma Inc. So this ordinance is going to adopt that plan which Lisa has coming.

Mr. Bonte: Could we just delete that reference in here? I think it would remove some ambiguity that this is tied to something else happening.

Mr. King: There is about 10 different things that could be placed in the Master Plan. Stormwater Management is one of them. By putting that into the Master Plan, it will help the Planning Board. It is something added, it is not going to take away.

Mr. Dorsey: Peter, just say yes. Whereas the Planning Board shall adopt the Master Plan, not the Township; okay we will make the changes.

Mr. Bonte: Then in the next “Whereas” it talks about a Stormwater Control Ordinance to implement a plan and that there is a year time frame for that. Does that affect the implementation of this plan?

Mr. Greenbaum: Yes. As I understand it, and Mr. Dorsey will correct me obviously if I am wrong, but that is the teeth by which ultimately you enforce the Stormwater Management Plan and the year is the outside date by which you need to adopt all of the ordinances, it is not waiting another year, it is you must get it done within the year.

Mr. Bonte: Okay, here is my question, I know I am getting greedy, we are way ahead of the game here according to other town I realize that. But I also know how things take time. My question is, once we adopt this Stormwater Management Plan and it is approved by DEP and becomes an Ordinance which is basically a law of the Town, do ongoing and future developments have to abide by this plan or do we have to wait until the “other enforcing ordinances are in place.

Mr. Dorsey: The answer to that is they don’t have to wait once this ordinance is adopted in terms of the Stormwater Management Plan, but apparently the way Gene, has set this up, and I think he has done in accordance with the from issued by the DEP, the Township is still going to have to adopt the Stormwater Control Ordinance.

Mr. Rattner: I agree with Mr. Bonte and I think as soon as we pass it we should pass the enabling legislation so we could enforce it and I am sure what Mr. Dorsey said is that Gene was looking at the model provided at the State because if you look at the schedule, and you have gone to the meeting, basically you have to have your plan in affect in the next couple months and then it is giving the Towns the DEP verdict, is saying you have one year to then set up the enabling legislation. It doesn’t limit us to that and you are right, if we agreed that it makes sense, it makes sense then to put the enabling legislation in so that we can enforce it and I think that is what we should do. I think once we pass that we should look at just doing the enabling legislation to enforce what we want. He is absolutely right.

Mr. Bonte: By the way I want to thank the Council for getting this on as quickly as you have and the Administration for us being way ahead of the curve this time. I am not criticizing I just want to make sure that we get this approved as rapidly as possible. I don’t know if I mentioned this, a number of communities have asked me for copies of the Mount Olive Resolution which I have e-mailed to them.

Mr. Greenbaum: Mr. Dorsey, is it fair to say that being at the forefront of the adoption of this particular Ordinance that we will also be in the forefront of litigation challenging? In my opinion it is a fight that is worth fighting, I just don’t want to be criticized down the road that it was not a consideration as we move forward.

Mr. Rattner: And we will have to make sure we will have enough money in the budget to seriously defend it.

President Guenther: Any further comments from the public? Seeing none.


Mr. Scapicchio: One last piece of business I would like to bring to the Council, a representative of the American Cancer Society called me the other day, Pam Farago and she would like to come to a Council Workshop and give us a presentation. Basically what she is asking for is us to waive the noise ordinance. What they are proposing is to have what I call a Jamboree over at the High School on June 7th and June 8th. Basically it is a round the clock relay style race around the track in an effort to raise money for cancer research so I would just request that the Council allow her the five or ten minutes at a workshop the opportunity to make the presentation to us so that we can consider waiving the noise ordinance, and I will pass this down if the Council is in agreement with that, I would just ask that Lisa contact this individual and try to get her in here as soon as we can. There is a home number and a cell number.

Mayor Licitra: Bernie, I have a meeting, I don’t know if it is before the next Council meeting, but I have a meeting with someone from the Cancer Association and I don’t know what the subject is, but she wanted to have a meeting with myself. I will know tomorrow what date that is, because it may be timely that she comes in for one meeting and sees the both of us.

President Guenther: I would like to poll the Council, I don’t know, do we really feel we need a presentation from them about this? I want your opinions.

Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, I had a small conversation with her after my conversation I am satisfied that it is an appropriate function, I am willing to waive that noise ordinance. There were some questions when Jill first brought that up from some Council Members in terms of what they were actually going to do.

Mr. Rattner: That’s what I would say. Before I could vote yes or no, I mean obviously it is for a good cause. If we need to know the exact parameters exactly, what is the level of noise? Is it going to be 65 -70 decimals that would leave the property which is about what it is during the day or is it going to be somewhere around 80. That will make a difference. We need to know specifically what it is and where they are. I want to listen to it, we want to work with them, at least that is the way I feel, but at the same time we have to respect the neighbors that would be directly affected.

Mrs. Lashway: In this letter it says from 10:15 pm until noon the next day. Entertainment is a talent competition, volley ball tournament, tent decoration contests, choirs, clowns, battle of the bands and movies.

Mr. Rattner: But it depends on how much is amplified. You can have something on there, it could be loud, it could be very loud, it could be extraordinarily loud. We need to set some parameters on it.

President Guenther: The area of concern is that these activities are planned in the nighttime and noise carries more at night. I think we do need the presentation, I take that back.

Mayor Licitra: I want you to take into consideration now that I know what time it is, when West Morris plays their football games, we can hear the score from my house which is two miles away as the crow flies, so understand that is at 7:00 at night. You really have to take that into consideration.

President Guenther: I have one quick thing for the Mayor. It had been mentioned to me by the Historical Society about the possibility of adding their name to the list of recipients of donations when we get these from various organizations, for example when we had the grand openings where they are giving donations to various organizations such as the First Aid, Fire Department, if there would be a possibility of adding the Historical Committee to that list.
Mr. Spino: Are you asking for a vote?

President Guenther: I am asking Mr. Mayor if they can be included. If you go into Walmart or Sams Club you see all the checks up there, about eight or nine organizations that receive money; I think it is a worth while cause to add to that unless somebody has an objection.

Mr. Spino: I think it is a good idea.


President Guenther made a motion to adjourn, all in favor, none opposed. The meeting adjourned at 9:05 pm.

Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on May 27, 2003

Mount Olive Township Clerk




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