Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
January 28, 2003


MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women fighting terrorism and those who have lost their lives defending the freedom we all enjoy


According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Rattner, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
Absent: Mr. Spino


President Guenther: Just for the benefit, I see a lot of faces in the audience that don’t normally attend, I just want to explain a little bit about procedure. We have a public comment period at the beginning now, and that is meant to be a public comment on anything that is not on our agenda. If there are resolutions and ordinances that are of your concern, there is a public comment portion during the consideration of each ordinance or each resolution. So I would request please that you withhold your comments in those particular items for that time when that particular item comes up. The public comment period here is really meant for people that possibly can’t stay until the end of the meeting or have some new subject to bring up that has not been before council before. So I’ll open it up to the public for any public comment on anything that is not on the agenda.

Bob Elms, Budd Lake: I am reading form the Township Council page, your goals for 2003 and it says that you will start the planning process for phase two of Turkey Brook Park with a view towards serving an even wider spectrum of our population. With the problems that we are having with Turkey Brook, are we really considering going to Phase II in this coming year?

President Guenther: The problems are really fairly much behind us Mr. Elms. We are on schedule to open the park at the end of May, the weather might prevent us from doing so because of the heavy snow cover and ice, other wise everything seems to be on stream. I have tonight, a document we put together on the cost involved in the project, there as been a lot of misinformation that is out there in the street as to what the cost overruns are on this project and how it is costing the tax payer, and you will see from the figures that’s far from the truth. I don’t know what problems you are referring to, the problems have really been addressed, have been taken care of and we’re ready to open Phase I at the end of May and for full operation on all the fields by the Fall this year.

Mr. Elms: Is the money in the current budget for Phase II?

President Guenther: Phase II, the planning process, which will take several months, so anything to be spent probably will not take place until the following fiscal year.

Mr. Elms: It won’t take place until the following fiscal year?

President Guenther: Correct.

Mr. Elms: In 2004?

President Guenther: That is sort of my view of it and what I see as coming down the pipe. We are having a meeting on February 18th. Some ideas will be battered around as to what should be done in Phase II. That won’t be the last meeting. They’ll be another meeting. That particular committee meets monthly. I doubt whether you are going to see anything coming out of that committee before the middle of the year.

Mr. Greenbaum: Bob, just an answer to your question, I don’t foresee voting in favor of spending any money on Phase II in this current fiscal year. That’s not to say I am not in favor of looking at Phase II development, but I would not be in favor in light of where we are in the budget process and speaking personally and not for the rest of the Council.

Mr. Elms: I understand. Also, it says that you are going to spread more recreation facilities more widely around by planning the development of Township land and other sectors. I understand we have closed some of the smaller parks.

President Guenther: Well, there is a particular property that is up in your neck of the woods Mr. Elms, it is commonly called Simsbury Property, which the Township has had in it’s possession for several years. Since the largest expansion of development seems to be taking place in that sector of Towns, to me it would make sense to start looking at doing something with that property, that does not mean all of it should be used. But a couple fields to address the needs of people in that sector of Town instead of funneling traffic all into one central area at Turkey Brook.

Mr. Elms: That is not answering my question Bernie, we have a couple of small parks that are not being supported because supposedly they are too expensive to maintain. One of which is up off of Sandshore Road and I understand there is another one down in Flanders.

President Guenther: Which one on Sandshore Road? Lou Nelson Park?

Mr. Elms: Yes.

President Guenther: Is Jim Lynch here, I will have him address that because I don’t know all the details with that.

Mr. Lynch: In referring to Lou Nelson Park, that park has been budgeted for, we are doing upkeep on the park, we did all last year. Some of the equipment in the park, we will have to assess. We have had recommendations from our JIF Representative that Lou Nelson and Lyons Park, due to their age, some of the materials, swing sets and stuff, are no longer compliant. We’ll be looking in assessing that. Lyons Park is the park that predominantly has fallen out of use, with Flanders Park being established on the other end of the Clover Hill Development, Lyons Park has a developing situation, I don’t know the full history, but it seems to be getting very wet. There were some things done over the years down there, there was a tire park introduced in portions of that facility. That was taken out based upon a JIF recommendation. We are going to probably look to take down the swing sets because of the encroaching tree line from the stream area. Those swing sets are no longer what the JIF likes to see because of the height and the elevation that can be attained by the children swinging on them, we may look to remove those. The basketball court we put maintenance into last year, we put up a new backboard, we put up a new rim, we will continue to maintain that portion of the park, it will still be mowed as weather conditions permit and maintain it. Right now there is not budgeted funds to renew all of the playground equipment in the park. I think those were the two parks that Mr. Elms was referring to. If there is any other questions, I would be happy to answer to them.

President Guenther: Thank you Jim. Anybody else from the audience? Seeing none.


President Guenther: I want to acknowledge the presence of our Township Administrator, Cynthia Spencer. Cindy, any other Administrative matters?

Mrs. Spencer: No, nothing new tonight.


President Guenther: I just want to address one issue, where I possibly at the last meeting misspoke which might have created some confusion. This involves the Recreation Committee, and some suggestions that were made regarding the raising of funds for maintenance of parks. I believe I might have stated that was for Turkey Brook, I was incorrect. The suggestion made by Jim Lynch, our director of Buildings, Parks and Grounds and Jill Dagon, our recreation director, was to put a proposal in front of all the sports groups that are members of the Recreation Advisory Committee and to ask for their input as to what funds could be created to support the other parks, one of the things that Mr. Lynch pointed out to me is that when he was hired, that he was asked in his interview was what would you do that could be created as to finding funds to support those parks. We have never really had a good budget in this Town for maintaining those parks. This is one of the ideas that he came up with, but it was certainly not something set as a policy, it was set as a suggestion as a discussion document and that’s what remains and at the Recreation Advisory Committee meeting, we will be entertaining feedback from those committees and hopefully come up with some kind of a program to help those particular parks, specifically the parks that Mr. Elms was mentioning, the ones that had some neglect in the past. Next is the Turkey Brook Park status report.

Turkey Brook Park Project Status

Mrs. Spencer: Before we get to that, one other update on the Mt. View School/Linwood Avenue situation. I know Bernie that you had gone ahead and written a letter to the School Board stating that we would be meeting with them and Chief Katona, Scott VanNess, the traffic officer and myself with Dr. Lamonte, Ron Marina, the Principal, Don Todd, the director of busing and two concerned parents, Maria Miller and Susan Brown and we brought them up to date on all of the actions and the citizen comments that have been made at various Council Meetings and we then proceeded to go over a number of points. The angled parking that has been discussed so frequently has now been removed and in it’s place when the snow cleared, will be three parallel parking spots, pick up and drop off. A few of the items that are going to be tried starting right away is that Mr. Marina will begin to strictly enforce the rule that all faculty, teacher’s aides and helpers use the faculty parking lots, not the street or the front spaces which will free up space for parents coming in to drop off kids, or pick up kids. The Board of Education is also going to consider the idea of expanding the front lot. We are going to have Officer VanNess do a preliminary parking plan on the space that is available and through our DPW Department, we’ll provide them with a preliminary construction estimate so that they could bring that back to the Board during their budget process this year. Mr. Marina will also examine the option of dismissals from different doors at the school so that we could perhaps have students dismissed differently if they are being picked up by their parents versus busing or if they are walkers to try to reduce some of the congestion. Susan Brown is going to be addressing the parents at the next PTA Meeting and trying to reach a consensus of opinion for all of the parents that are sending their kids to school there, and it is their recommendation and they believe they are going to have the support for making Linwood a one way just for two hours a day during that dismissal and pick up time, which again is one of the options that had been presented to Council. They will be coming to the Council closer to the school year end, they are also going to through the school send home notices to the parents asking for a cooperative one way effort exiting all of the streets and lots onto Linwood just during those pick up and drop off time because it did appear to work well during the six months the parents voluntarily did it. Then, there was also a discussion of busing all students. Don Todd had stated that a cost of $64,000 to $112,000 needed to be added on to the Board of Education budget for just busing those students as courtesy busing so he did not believe that the Board of Education would look upon that favorably as it’s been presented two other times. Then finally, our Police Department is going to look at a one to two hour parking along Clover Hill to again relieve some of the congestion on Linwood and provide additional spots for people who need to come in to the school if they are helping out in a classroom, if their dropping off someone, picking up someone to go to the dentist, that sort of thing. That seemed to get a lot of support and Susan Brown had provided me for Council where they have already gotten 35 names suggesting, just suggesting three of the suggestions that are on the list that we are going to take into consideration and get some data over the next couple of months.

President Guenther: I just want to acknowledge that Mayor Licitra has joined the meeting after D.A.R.E graduation. Cindy, do you want to move right on to Turkey Brook?

Mrs. Spencer: There is not much action this week in Turkey Brook, as you all know it has been very very cold, however I did have a conversation with Tom Laredo who is the head of Consolidated Building responsible for building the restroom facility and the baseball tower. He and his masons are sitting ready to go up on to Turkey Brook the end of this week, if the weather reaches 30 degrees he believes he will be able to get on to the site and he will start with the restroom that is situated between the soccer facilities. If he can get the footings in, he believes the building will be complete within two and a half months. I believe that I mentioned at the last meeting, they are also starting to build a part of the baseball tower so that when the weather breaks in the Spring, they have the foundation in for that restroom and tower building. They will bring parts of that tower to the site already reconstructed. Right now he believes he’ll be able to meet the May 31st deadline.

President Guenther: Okay, I just passed out to the Council members a summary that Cindy put together for me. As I mentioned in my remarks to Mr. Elms, that there were some misconceptions going around about the cost of Turkey Brook and how far it was over budget and so forth. What we have done is divided this into two sections; one for land acquisition costs and the other showing the original budget estimate versus changes and then the explanation of the changes and for the final costs. As you’ll notice on here, most of the large dollar changes are really ones involving rock. We even have a credit that we realized when we estimated a higher amount for running a water line from the Chester Stephens School and instead of that, drilling a well so we actually had some offset there. I just wanted your comments. This is something I wanted to release and let the public have available. If any of you up here on the dais have any comments or any suggestions to make on changes; Cindy and I worked on this today, I think we have pretty much reached a consensus in our memories and in our files what we could dig up, but if there is somebody else that has any input on this, if it doesn’t make sense to them I would like to…Yes Steve?

Mr. Rattner: I don’t know about the actual expenses and the money spent to date, I just know what we have appropriated and this seems short. We originally appropriated somewhere in the vicinity of $5.9 million, just the development, then we passed an amendment, the one we are redoing tonight for another $700,000 and then we had another change order for $1.5 million. That comes up to considerably higher than $7.1 million. This is the first time Mr. Rattner (cont’d): I saw this, I don’t have any of my files with me.

President Guenther: What Cindy and I agreed to, we were putting in an estimate of actual costs versus bonding.

Mr. Rattner: If we have that, then according to this we are going to have $1.5 million left over when we are done?

President Guenther: Could very well be, at the moment. That’s the way it looks.

Mr. Rattner: We were told we couldn’t go any further unless we pass those amendments. That’s the $11.5 million that I disagreed with at the time because we said we couldn’t even go for the building if we didn’t have they money. We will have to look there. I know how much we said we had to go and put into the budget. As I said, I think it was $5.9 million, we have the $700,000 and something and then we had the $1.5 million that was done after we found the rock.

President Guenther: Well we decided and you were one, that is why we wanted to be absolutely sure that we were really covered that there wasn’t some other…

Mr. Rattner: I agree, the $1.5 million was when we had $1.1 million in extra costs already known, that was before we put some extra things back in that we found money for. Again, just getting it like this, and if it is just a ball park, I will take it as a ball park, then it is not to far off about what’s been spent. I am just saying what we have actually put aside money for and I don’t think we would have put away $1.5 million more than we really needed.

President Guenther: Any other comments? One other thing, I want to give an update on something I discussed with Chuck McGroarty this week, there was a project he had with the State Department of Transportation for the Highway Access Plan and this was supposed to help us in the development along the highway, mostly along Route 46 and I was always wondering what had happened to that. He said that there were some internal problems at DOT, he says the suspicion was that there were people that were just to lazy to do it. But they sort of shoved it under the rocks. Supposedly only two municipalities in the State of New Jersey have such a plan and apparently these people just really didn’t want to bother with considering it. His knowledge now is that based on things that have been coming out of Trenton and what they are trying to do to. This might fall on more receptive ears this time. So he is going to put his feelers out again to reactivate this Highway Access Plan with the DOT for Route 46. Anybody else have any old business that they would like to address. If not, any new business?



Mr. Dorsey: The action this week in terms of Turkey Brook was not on the site but in Court; the complaint was filed last Thursday and Phil Garber advised everybody in North Carolina who fought the suit, the summons’s had been filed and the summons’s will be issued beginning tomorrow. The Mayor and Councilman Spino’s deposition were taken last Wednesday in connection with the suit we referred to as FireTower II. I would say that they pretty much finessed that deposition until the attorney for Fire Tower wasn’t sure what County he was in. The suit in connection for the condemnation for Smith Farm has been filed, has been served and the return date is February 21, 2003.

Mr. Guenther: Thank you Mr. Dorsey.


January 14, 2003 cs Present: President Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Spino, Mrs. Miller
Absent: Mr. Perkins

Mr. Scapicchio moved for approval of the minutes. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Perkins, abstained.


Letters from Residents

1. Email received from resident on January 10, 2003 regarding parking on Linwood Ave.

2. Email received January 16, 2003 from a Flanders resident regarding the current state of the Old Municipal Building.

3. Letter received January 23, 2003 from a Stedwick Drive resident regarding a new 26-passenger bus for Senior transportation.

4. Letter received January 23, 2003 from a Village Green resident regarding a new 26-passenger bus for Senior transportation.

5. Letter received January 24, 2003, from Mrs. Mary Catino (Village Green) regarding having money in the Budget a new 26 passenger bus for the Senior Transportation.

6. Letter received January 24, 2003, from Virginia Nolan, Secretary for the Mount Olive Senior Citizens regarding having money in the Budget for a new 26 passenger bus for the Senior Transportation.

7. Letter received January 24, 2003, from Carol Smith regarding having money in the budget for a new 26 passenger bus for Senior Transportation.

8. Letter received January 24, 2003, from Frances Jaques of Budd Lake regarding having money in the Budget for a new 26 passenger bus for Senior Transportation.

9. Letter received January 24, 2003, from “Servant” of God the Father regarding having money in the budget for a new 26 passenger bus for Senior Transportation among other items as described in letter.

Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Municipalities

10. Resolution received January 13, 2003 from the County of Sussex supporting the State of New Jersey’s effort to protect critical water supplies.

11. Resolution received January 17, 2003 from the Borough of Mount Arlington Opposing S-1140 Amending the Budget Cap Law.
Letter received January 23, 2003 from the Borough of Florham Park asking for support by Resolution or Proclamation to help fight Fibrodysplasia Ossificans Progressiva (F. O. P.).

League of Municipalities

13. Letter received January 16, 2003 from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding a dinner in connection with the Morris County Open Space Trust fund.

14. Letter received January 17, 2003 from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding “The Totally Web Government Service Program.”

.DOT / DEP / Permit’s / LOI’s

15. Letter received January 13, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding Freshwater Wetlands Letter of Interpretation – Reliance Request. Block 6801; Lot 5. Property Owner: American Instants, Inc.

16. Letter received January 17, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding An Administrative Order and Notice of Civil Administrative Penalty Assessment.

17. Letter received January 17, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding Universal Waste Handler Notification, One Eden Lane, Mount Olive Township, NJ.

18. Letter received January 21, 2003 from the Department of Transportation regarding NJDOT Enhancement Program brochure and application.

19. Letter received January 23, 2003 from Nusbaum, Stein, Goldstein, Bronstein & Kron regarding an application to the NJDEP for a Hardship Waiver from the Wetlands Rules in order to construct a single-family residence on Block 3305, Lot 28.

20. Letter received January 23, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding the Budd lake Fire Department and Remedial Action Workplan Dated: November 29, 2002.

Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards

21. Letter received January 13, 2003 from the Warren County Regional Chamber of Commerce regarding upcoming events.

22. Letter received January 21, 2003 from the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders regarding an invite to the Fifth Annual Goose Damage Management Workshop.

23. Minutes received January 21, 2003 from the Morris County Planning Board regarding a meeting held December 19, 2002.

24. Letter received January 24, 2003, from Edward Buzak, Esq. regarding change in the 2003 Meeting Schedule of the Board of Health and a letter of thanks.

25. Letter regarding January 24, 2003, from Applied Wastewater Management, Inc. regarding Morris Chase Wastewater System.

United States Department of Agriculture

26. Letter received January 23, 2003 from the United States Department of Agriculture regarding Federal Programs and Financial Assistance available to individuals or families wanting to purchase a home or to homeowners needing repairs for their home.


27. Minutes received January 13, 2003 from the Musconetcong Sewage Authority regarding a meeting held on December 4, 2002.

Utilities / Cable

28. Letter received January 13, 2003 from the NUI Utilities Inc. d/b/a Elizabethtown Gas Company regarding Notice of Public Hearings.

29. Letter received January 16, 2003 from the Morris County Municipal Utilities Authority regarding a Mercury Thermometer exchange program.

President Guenther: Stated that there were 29 items of Correspondence and asked if Council had any comments on same?

Mr. Rattner: One of the things we have gotten quite a bit of correspondence from the Senior Citizens and they all start out about how bad in condition and that we have unsafe vehicles on the road that we are transporting them around in. That did not seem to make sense to me. I did check with the Director of Health and Welfare and said the vehicles are in good shape, that the vehicles they are referring to is an additional bus that has been put in a budget with an additional driver in this years budget, not that we were replacing one, in fact I asked specifically what kind of problems have you had with the equipment. The only thing he could state of any major consequence was that there was a fuel leak in one of the buses that took a couple tries in maintenance to find where it was leaking, but all the vehicles are safe, they are all maintained, they are all inspected, up to date and there is no safety issue with those vehicles. I guess the senior citizens must have been given some misinformation that we had to immediately replace a vehicle. That’s the way I got the information. That is not what it is. The vehicles are in good shape, they are safe and they are being properly maintained. I just wanted to make sure that nobody is going around thinking that there we are running around our senior citizens in unsafe equipment.

President Guenther: Thank you Mr. Rattner. Any other comments on correspondence? I do have one, item number 19, I see that the attorney for this particular letter writer is here today. I know he is here on another matter so I thought I would address it real quickly. One of the things that sort of popped out at me about this letter with the attachments is that I think the comparables were kind of stretching things a bit as far as the value of the land. I think one of the things we would want to see first is a letter of interpretation before any further steps are taken. So if you want to pass that on to Mr. Forgey. Any other comments?

Mr. Greenbaum: In regard to number 17, the Universal Waste Handler notification for One Eden Lane. Was that the issue that was raised at the last meeting?

President Guenther: I have an update on that from the MUA, Larry Gindoff told me that it was the DEP that’s reclassified some materials that used to be called hazardous are now called, and I forget what the terminology was. As a result of that, this company was required to put this application in again. It does not signify any increase in materials being handled or the nature of the materials they are currently having. It is just a bureaucratic formality with the DEP.

Mr. Scapicchio: Can we get that confirmed by Frank Wilpert because that’s not what that letter referred to Bernie. That letter actually names mercury as one contaminant and it actually said that they were going to be converted to a bulk receiver of.

President Guenther: I read it to them and this is what Larry explained to me. He has had some discussions with Gindoff about the same thing. So, I am surprised I have not gotten a report from Frank.

Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, does that necessitate a change in the Morris County Solid Waste Management Plan. An amendment and a hearing to that.

President Guenther: Well that is what he was saying; it does not necessitate a change to the Solid Waste Management Plan.


Ord. #1-2003 Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Amending Article II Section 4-5 of the Code of the Township of Mount Olive – “Mayor.” (Records Retention/Management)

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #1-2003

President Guenther closed the public hearing on Ordinance #1-2003

Mr. Scapicchio moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #1-2003. Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Comments? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ord. #1-2003 as passed on Second Reading.

Ord. #2-2003 An Ordinance to Amend and Supplement Ordinance No. 52-2002 Entitled an Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Certain Stop Intersections.(Carson & Pershing & Carson & Delbar)

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #2-2003

President Guenther closed the public hearing on Ordinance #2-2003

Mr. Ratter moved for Adoption and final passage of Ordinance #2-2003. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Comments? When we passed a larger ordinance for a lot of stop streets, this was an error that was made and it was caught and it was decided to amend it with a new ordinance in this year.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ord. #2-2003 as passed on Second Reading.

Ord. #3-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Prohibiting Parking at Certain Times on Streets Within the Township of Mount Olive. (Eric, Victoria, Jeffrey, etc.)

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #3-2003

Bob Rudolph, 5 Theresa Drive: I was more than a little surprised when I received this proposed ordinance and then I read it over a little more carefully, and it says the Council, is desirous of taking proactive measures to address the concerns of it’s residents. Well we live on Theresa Drive. We have lived there for about 18 years. No one ever asked us whether we had any concerns. So I don’t know who it is that is raising these concerns. The truth is that for whatever reason this is being proposed, you are creating a problem where there is no problem. There is no parking problem on Theresa Drive. I don’t usually leave for work until 9:30, 10:00 in the morning when school is in session and there are no cars parked on Theresa Drive. I don’t see any cars parked in the neighborhood. Maybe one or two every once in a while, and those belong to the neighbors themselves. But I don’t know if you have considered the ramifications of what happens if you enact this type of ordinance. For instance, we have a swimming pool. During the Summer when school is out, our children frequently invite their friends over in the afternoon. We don’t want to have to juggle cars back and forth in the driveway so I rather them park out front. If they did it after this has passed, they would get tickets. There is also another issue. Although, our children are now teenagers, a lot of young parents have play groups and I remember my next store neighbor, when there were play groups there, when the young kids would come over, they were parked on the street. If they did it now, they would get a ticket. There is other practical considerations. Many of us have lawn services. The lawn services involve trucks that pull up, unload their equipment and go from lawn to lawn. Usually, the services handle more than one of the neighbors. If they did this, they get a ticket. Tree services, people that come in to prune our shrubbery, they don’t drive into our yards, they don’t drive into the driveways, they park on the street, put the mulching equipment out there, they would be ticketed. We have septic tanks, we don’t have sewers on our street. As far as I know when the septic truck pulls up, it parks by the curb, runs the line into the septic tank to service it, assuming they would be ticketed to. Usually when an ordinance like this is proposed, there is some sort of valid public policy reason to bring it about. There doesn’t seem to be anything specified, except this vague reference to proactive measures to address the concerns.

President Guenther: Let me give you a little bit of history. This started close to two years ago and it went from neighborhood to neighborhood. It started with parking on Patlin and Jocynda which are right opposite on Corey Road, right opposite the High School. Residents came in front of us, all up in arms about the students parking, blocking their driveways, they did not want parking there. We passed an ordinance prohibiting parking on those streets. The students quickly moved on to Schoolhouse Lane, a new development on the side of the High School, residents complained about them blocking the driveways, backing in and out, crossing their properties, throwing gum, smoking cigarettes, whatever. We don’t want people parking there. We went along with that, I somewhat reluctant in some cases, but went along with the wishes of the residents. Third neighborhood, Carlton Hills, they all moved to Carlton Hills, further up Flanders-Netcong Road. We had a petition, we had at least ten residents from that community come in and complain about the same thing. The arguments you make are very valid. It seems to me, that none of the people in those three neighborhoods ever brought any of those three arguments in front of us. They seem to think the overriding issue was protecting them from the students. Whatever way you want to look at it. Now, step four, a resident on I believe it was Victoria, and I was trying to dig up the name, I don’t know who the individual was and maybe it was more than one individual, came with the same complaint because now the students started parking on Victoria and I personally took the step and saying I will not vote for this, we are doing a piece meal one by one, and the students are just moving from one neighborhood to the other that if we are going pass it, we are going to cover other neighborhoods as well. We are going to cover all of the streets that are within a reasonable distance to the High School so that they don’t get impacted as well because we are just going to have the residents of those streets come in to us and make the same complaints. That is the reason all of your streets were included. And we included parts of Flanders-Netcong Road. And Ramar as well which is further down on Flanders-Netcong Road. So that is the history and that is the reason.

Mr. Rudolph: I think one of your colleagues wants to make a remark.

President Guenther: I would like to give other people a chance to talk.

Mr. Rudolph: Well you just explained your position, the situation is though, I drive these streets everyday. There is no parking problem in our neighborhood, and also the distance from our neighborhood to the High School is much greater than the distance of any of those other streets you have mentioned. For a kid to walk that far during the Winter, it is a little unreasonable to expect that they are actually going to do that.

President Guenther: Let me tell you, the students seem to be very ingenious in doing that.

Mr. Rudolph: They are not here, that is the problem. You are creating a problem where none exists. If we came in and complained, look we have cars parked on our street. We are creating all kinds of problems. That is exactly what these other people did.

President Guenther: But people in your neighborhood came and complained.

Mr. Rudolph: You said one person on Victoria.
President Guenther: I don’t know if it was one or more than one. I don’t remember. But there were several people that came in and complained from your neighborhood. Can I give somebody else a chance to make a comment?

Mr. Rudolph: Certainly.

President Guenther: I’ll let Mr. Greenbaum make a comment as well.

Mr. Rudolph: One thing I did want to say before you do that. What you have expressed as a concern has to do with the High School students parking. Shouldn’t that be something that is regulated by the High School itself?

Mr. Greenbaum: We have no control over the School Board and what they do with regard to parking at the High School, and we have exhausted all of our remedies in terms of trying to get them to deal with this problem and they have not dealt with it and there is no intention on their part to deal with this problem. So we have to take whatever action is necessary with regard to the resident’s concerns. Now I understand what you are saying, that there is not a problem on your street, but there appears to be a problem in the neighborhood and if all of the neighbors on your street want to exempt that street from the no parking situation, that is fine with me. I am sure that everyone else here wouldn’t have a problem with that either but what you are going to end up having, is you are going to end up having all of the High School students parking on your street because that is where they have gone to. If you feel that way and all of the residents on your street don’t want this ban, then I think I speak for everybody here, we don’t want to impose any unnecessary regulation on any residents in the town and really, I just don’t want you to come back in two months because they are all parking on your street and now say, that there is a problem, that’s all.

Nicholas Grecco, 8 Jeffrey Court: I am the individual who actually submitted the petition that was signed by all the members of Jeffrey. I want to remind the Council that when I did that I was speaking only for the citizens on Jeffrey Court and to my good neighbors on Eric, their points are valid. Jeffrey Court is a fairly long road. One of the reasons why I did not even make an attempt to extend the petition over to these other streets is because I agree with Mr. Rudolph, I do think that once Jeffrey is eliminated from parking, that it is unlikely that we will see parking spread to those other streets. If that happens, then maybe it is up to them if they want to take the same actions that we took on Jeffrey. But we do have the parking problem on Jeffrey, so we felt it was necessary as a reminder. We have skid marks; we have cigarette butts in front of the house. So we felt that it was necessary to take the action whether or not it is necessary to extend it beyond that I think the push backs are valid. I would only ask the Council that if you do reconsider that you continue to put the ordinance on at least Jeffrey.

President Guenther: Isn’t Victoria actually closer to the High School than Jeffrey?

Mr. Grecco: No, because Jeffrey you can walk, there is an easement from my house.

President Guenther: Oh, they could walk through the woods, okay.

Mr. Scapicchio: I would just like to concur with this gentleman and that complaint did come in from the Jeffrey Court residents. It was somebody on this Board and I don’t recall who, who decided to expand it because I thought the problem would go elsewhere. I am in favor of addressing this ordinance with relation to Jeffrey Court and if for some reason in the future, there becomes a problem in other areas, then we deal with that at that time. But to pass an ordinance to prohibit parking on streets where there isn’t presently a problem, I am not in favor of that.

Mr. Dorsey: Do you wish to make a motion to amend the ordinance?

Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to amend this ordinance to include only Jeffrey Court where the residents have petitioned us to make this a no parking zone from 7:00am to 5:00 pm. Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Public comment on the motion to amend?

Linda Kowalski, 13 Victoria Drive: I just cannot understand, I know the kids can be wicked, but I think this should be addressed at the High School. I think kids need to be told, keep your cigarette buts in the car, don’t park to close to the corner so people could turn corners, these are kids. Some of them might have jobs and need the cars to go to jobs after work. We have a pretty good Police Department in this Town. If the kids are being rowdy, and you call the Police, they are going to be there. Whenever I call them they are there before I hang up the phone. So think that a few of those calls would stop somebody from being rowdy if somebody has that kind of complaint. I just think as Bob said, the ramifications, the people even on Jeffrey. Who knows how long they are going to stay there. Houses are selling. The next guy moves in doesn’t know it, they have a party, they have people staying over, they get tickets. I think there should be a different way to handle it.

Dewy Snider, Corey Road: I live on the corner of Corey Road and Flanders-Drakestown Road. I have lived there for 17 years. I drive up Corey Road and down Flanders-Netcong Road for the last 17 years. I have never seen a problem with parking. I have noticed on the corner of Corey Road and Flanders Drakestown Road there’s a couple of cars, but there is no real problem. Jeffrey Court I really don’t know but I just wanted to reinforce what the other gentleman said. Apparently there are a lot of people who have been riled up about this letter and I just wanted to enforce what he said more eloquently than I could see it. By the way, I do want to thank the Mayor and Council for that great one day a year all you can throw away trash day.

President Guenther: I just want to point one thing out sir. Some of you referred to never having problems in the past. One of the things that have been pointed out, when we had our discussions with the school as to why the school could not do anything about it was that apparently some of the State Regulations on kids driving, they can now drive at an earlier age under certain conditions. This is a societal problem in that when I went to school, I did not have a car. I borrowed by parents car once in a while. Nowadays, it seems to be a right of passage that when you turn 17 your parent gives you a car. Now they all have cars and they feel they have the right to drive and they probably do. They have a license, they want to drive to school. The school has tried to get them to take the school buses. A comment was made well, they are wasting the taxpayers money by not taking the school buses, that’s true. But they can not force them to take a bus. This is a free society. The school only has parking and they do it on a permanent basis for the seniors, there are none for the juniors. There are increasing numbers of juniors that have the cars and driving. I would be willing to go along if that is what the residents want, but you just have to remember this is an increasing problem, a societal problem and that more and more kids drive at an earlier age.

Suasan Marra, 5 Ramar Street: I just want to include Ramar Street that we are not in favor of having this resolution passed. I know four High School students that live on Ramar Street that do not walk to school ever, they get driven everyday. So it is a distance to walk, there is no short cut, there is no path to get over to or Patlyn or Jocynda, there is but you have to go through private property. The one person who lives back there is certainly not going to let anybody walk through his property. He has no trespassing signs on every single corner of his yard and he is out there all the time. So there is no shortcut and it is quite a distance to walk from Ramar Street out to Flanders Netcong, up over to Corey and then try to cross Corey Road to get into the High School parking lot.

Mr. Greenbaum: I am sorry, just a point of order, Mr. Guenther, just so the audience is clear, and we run by Parliamentary Procedure is to limit parking on Jeffrey only. Not Raymar, not Theresa, not any of the other streets right now, and I don’t want to cut anybody short because obviously everybody here has concerns about those streets, but the motion on the table right now, is strictly Jeffery and we are not going to be dealing with until this motion is done with, the rest of the streets. I assume if Jeffrey passes, the rest of the streets will remain as they are and there won’t be any further motion. I know there are a bunch of people here from Theresa who are against this for the reasons that are stated. There may be 20 people here from Theresa, but we are not dealing with Theresa now, you have made you point, we have amended the motion, if the motion fails then we go back to the original motion and I think at that point it would be appropriate for you to make your comments but I don’t know that you need to now, but it is up to Mr. Guenther.

President Guenther: I don’t agree completely because I think they are making their points to the Council as to why it should be restricted to Jeffrey and they are making the points regarding their particular streets, I think it is appropriate if they feel we could make them at this time.

Bob Elms, Budd Lake: I would like to make two quick suggestions. First of all you could say no student parking on those streets which would solve a lot of the other problems that the people are complaining about.

President Guenther: How do you suggest differentiating a student from another type of car? How could you do that?

Mr. Elms: It’s very easy for the Police Department to differentiate. They have mobile data terminals in their cars, they could determine who belongs to the car. The other thing is, I would suggest that the Council put together a very strong resolution to their School Board; because they have sufficient property up there to build a parking lot, that they better get started doing it.

President Guenther: Let me address that. This last week Mr. Scapicchio and I had a meeting with two School Board Members and this is one of the items for discussion. They are facing a fiscal crises just as every other public entity is these days. They are going to be going in front of the Public with a bond ordinance to expand the High School. If they make improvements, yes, they have property where they can make improvements. It is going to cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars to construct a parking lot. If they do that, expand the High School, all that work and that money will be down the drain. It will have to be redone. In other words, the one place where the have the park and the possible available parking is in the back, this is where they are going to expand the school

President Guenther (cont’d): probably. So it would have to be undone within a period of one to two years. It was the feeling, which I was willing to go along with that this would be a waste of the taxpayer’s money.

Mr. Perkins: As we have looked at this for what seems almost like an eternity, the parking problems at the schools. I connect with the concerns. What some of my Council Members have done is yes, they have spoken with the schools, I know the Mayor was over and had met with the Superintendent of the Board of Education last year. We had come up with a rudimentary price on putting in a parking area. I am not a favor of no parking anyplace. I have voiced that opinion, I will vote no for putting no parking signs around for a problem that is created by the school The school should be addressing it. My fellow residents that are out there right now, I venture to say that if this was a School Board meeting and we had the same problem there might be about one eighth of you there. If you really have a problem with what the school is doing, you need to get to the School Board meetings. There is no guarantee that anybody is going to pass a bond ordinance to expand the High School. The parking is an immediate concern, the expansion of the High School is a future concern which may or may not be granted approval by you and all of us who live here. I still think that the problem needs to be addressed by the school, whether it be a temporary facility or not, and if it has to be included somewhere down the road. If you have a fundamental plan that says I need to rip up, then you surely must have a fundamental plan by now of where you are going to put the new parking. So then lets quit beating around the bush, if you have the plan for the building, you have the plan for the parking, so lets expand that little part for the parking and lets get moving on.

Mr. Rattner: That’s all well and good but it’s the same thing as us going to the State or the County trying to tell them what to do. They are a completely separate Government that is elected by the same public that elects us; they have the same budget so we can’t do anything there. We’ve basically banned the parking as an accommodation to the people that live in the neighborhood because that is what they need to properly utilize and enjoy their property. I don’t think any of us want to do anything that the people on the street don’t want. What I would just like to hear, and we could cut this short, is there anybody here from the audience here now, that wants a parking ban on their street other than the gentleman we just talked to? With that I think we could go along with the motion, we don’t have to hear anything else, take out all the other streets because we heard that Jeffrey Court does want it. Then we could move from there and cut it short. We could talk about it all we want but that is what the bottom line is. If you don’t mind it right now, and if something happens, we will address it at some time in the future. I think what Mr. Guenther was trying to do is that he was trying to avoid that because we have been doing this four or five times and after a while we were getting tired of it. Maybe we just overstepped to far this time.

Mr. Dorsey: Lets take Councilman Rattner’s suggestion. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to advocate a street in addition to Jeffrey in which this ordinance would exclude parking Monday through Friday? Nobody?

President Guenther: We are calling the motion to amend.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Mr. Dorsey: This is a substantial amendment. This Ordinance will have to be re-advertised as the change and then you will have to have a public hearing on the amended ordinance.

President Guenther: Do we take a vote to defeat the main ordinance?

Mr. Dorsey: No. You have amended the ordinance. Now we have to advertise the ordinance for a public hearing.
Is this only supposed to occur during school periods?

President Guenther: No. It was all day. That’s the way it was in the other neighborhoods.

Mr. Dorsey: Okay.

President Guenther: For the record, I advocated several meetings ago and several streets ago, that I thought the fairest way to address the problem would be to prohibit parking on one side of the road in all the neighborhoods, and in all these neighborhoods that we have passed these ordinances on. They are after all public streets and I think that would spread out the problem. I think some of the objections were, they’re parking on both sides of the street and making the passage way too narrow because the streets were designed on purpose, they are not supposed to be through streets. So if you prohibit it on one side of the side of the street and only allowed on one, and it’s allowed on all the streets around the High School, I think it would spread it out. I don’t think there would be substantial complaints. That is my personal opinion.

Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, could we just get a date from the Clerk when this is going to be on the agenda for Public Hearing so that the people in the audience that are interested don’t have to look for it.

Mr. Dorsey: It would probably be February 28, 2003.

Mr. Scapicchio: Is that correct Lisa?

Mrs. Lashway: Why can’t it be February 11, 2003.

Mr. Dorsey: That’s right, you can get anything published…

Mr. Scapicchio: Lisa so when is it?

Mrs. Lashway: February 11, 2003.

Mayor Licitra: When this first came about, we got in touch with certain land owners near the property and also made a suggestion that we would help to assist the schools in any way we could to try and get our parking situation correct. We will probably try to reach out again to the land owners that border the property to see if we can get some parking in there on their land for the High School.

President Guenther: I thought the High School already did that and they were rejected.

Mayor Licitra: It was not rejected, okay.

Ord. #4-2003 Bond Ordinance Providing for the Re-Adoption of Ordinance Number 10-2002 Adopted March 26, 2002, Authorizing a Supplemental Appropriation of $756,189 for Additional Park Improvements to Turkey Brook Park in and By the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #4-2003.

President Guenther closed the public hearing on Ordinance #4-2003.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for Adoption and final passage of Ordinance #4-2003. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion?

Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, this is one of those ordinances that was never properly noticed in the paper?

Mr. Dorsey: This ordinance was actually introduced, adopted and a public hearing held but there was a certain newspaper that failed to publish it when it should have. This is re-adoption to clarity that.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously with the exception of Mrs. Miller voted no.

President Guenther declared Ord. #4-2003 as passed on Second Reading.

Ord. #5-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Prohibiting Parking at Certain Times on Streets Within Carlton Hills.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #5-2003.

Mr. Bonte: This is obviously, virtually identical to Ordinance #2-2003.

President Guenther This was a reintroduction, the same as the prior one.

Mr. Bonte: Many many years ago I think when my son was about 10 he asked me why government needs 20,000 laws to enforce the Ten Commandments. Basically, the argument for all of these no parking zones are people park in front of my house, they burn rubber in the street, they speed, they throw cigarette butts, they block my mailbox, they block driveways, they park to close to the intersection. I believe within every one of these activities, there is a statute to prevent them from occurring. I don’t understand how a completely legal activity which is a licensed driver in the State of New Jersey, being able to park on a public street, we need to make that illegal. It is not a society problem Bernie, it is a recognition of the age we live in. When I was a student in High School, as soon as I could drive to school, that is what I did. Nobody gave me a car, I bought it, but I drove to school everyday because that is what teenagers like to do and they are legally entitled to do that. The streets were built here with public tax dollars Mr. Bonte (cont’d): and are maintained with public tax dollars and they are made wide enough to allow for parking. So I don’t think that we should be banning a legal activity. But we do need to enforce the existing laws and certainly the Police know when the speeding is taking place and people are burning out on the streets and throwing cigarettes because there is a very tight window everyday when those activities will occur. Maybe if we clamp down on that, we may be able to make a behavioral change on the students. Suggestions that students not be allowed to park on the street but the public are totally illegal, you can’t do that and we all know you can’t do that. So I would present two options to this Council. First, to rescind the ordinances that you have passed over the past few months and instruct the Administration to enforce the existing laws we have on the books. That’s what all the complaints seem to be about. The other option you have is that maybe Mr. Dorsey could look into the possibility of the Municipality condemning a portion of the School Board’s property, the Township take it over and we build the parking lot. It is tax dollars one way or the other, and I know it sounds ludicrous.

Mr. Rattner: Bravo.

Mr. Bonte: That’s right Steve and it would solve the problem. You wouldn’t let a business open up in Town that didn’t have adequate parking. Something needs to be done about this facility that is creating a problem that in the eyes of some of the residents is a nuisance but is a perfectly legal activity. If the parking needs to be at the school, maybe there are some forceful ways we can create that to happen but I just see this spreading to eventually, you may as well just pass a law, there is no parking in Mount. Olive from 7:00 am until 5:00 pm. We need to end this ridiculousness and get to the root of the problem.

President Guenther: Any other comments?

Dave Jones, Budd Lake: I was just wondering what Mr. Dorsey had to say about that, if it’s possible?

Mr. Dorsey: The answer to that is very simple. The public entity does have the right to acquire from condemnation property owned by another public entity. But if the public entity whose property you are going to take raises the objection that they need the public property for a public use, then the other pubic entity cannot condemn. I just was lectured here tonight that the School Board intends to use the property on which the parking would be located for the purchase of expanding the High School. If that is so, they would make that objection and we could not precede to condemn.

President Guenther: Thank you Mr. Dorsey:

Mr. Scapicchio: I was going to save this as part of my report as a School Board Liaison, but at last evening’s meeting, the parking issue as other traffic related issues around the schools came up, and they talked to their consultants for some additional need for some parking over at the High School, and based on their present planning for expansion of that High School, the architect/engineer suggested that they address that in the overall plan based on just the mobilization of all of the construction work that will be going on at that High School if this referendum once put on the ballot is passed. I think they recognize they have a problem but they also were advised that there is not much they could do at this time based on their need or desire to expand the High School and all of the construction equipment and supplies that are going to be in and around that facility that just don’t lend itself to being able to create that parking now, so that is what they talked about somewhat last night and that is there position.

President Guenther: Thank you David. Anybody else from the public, it was still open? Seeing none, I’ll close the public hearing. Council Comments?

Mrs. Miller: I like the idea of just having two hour parking, I think that would eliminate a lot of problems and then it would not create the problems of deliveries and visitors to the individual residents. So can we maybe amend it that way?

President Guenther: Rob had a comment about something.

Mr. Greenbaum: She made a motion, though.

President Guenther: Are you making a motion Charlene?

Mrs. Miller: I will if everybody else feels that would be a better way to go.

President Guenther: I want to give my opinion; I don’t think it is a good idea. I think it’s a less enforceable. We went through this with Linwood where the Police essentially went along with the idea of prohibiting parking or making the one way all day, they liked that better than certain hours because it was easier for them to enforce. Somebody made the comment that the students will duck out of school to move the car to another location to avoid President Guenther (cont’d): the two hour time limit.

Mr. Greenbaum: I agree with you 100%, I am not in favor of the amendment and I would like to know if there is a second to the amendment?

President Guenther: Any second to Charlene’s amendment for a two hour time limit? Seeing none it dies.

Mr. Greenbaum: Bernie had a comment though. In that this is one of the readopted ordinances that was not published in the paper, were the signs posted for no parking, I assume that they were because the students moved after that. Were there any comments or concerns received by the residents of Carlton Hill, while the ordinance was in place that it caused them any additional problems associated? I assume that there is no one here objecting from Carlton Hill this evening?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ord. #5-2003 as passed on Second Reading.

Ord. #6-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Fee of $25.00 for the Preparation of a Duplicate Tax Sale Certificate.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #6-2003. No one wished to be heard.

Mr. Perkins moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #6-2003. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Comments?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ord. #6-2003 as passed on Second Reading.

Ord. #7-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive to Amend and Supplement Chapter 400 Entitled “Land Use” to Clarify the Setback Requirements for Accessory Buildings and Structures When Attached to Principal Buildings and Structures.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #7-2003. No one wished to be heard.

Mr. Scapicchio moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #7-2003. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther declared Ordinance #-7-2003 as passed on Second Reading.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

Ord. #8-2003 Ordinance Appropriating $200,000 from the Morris County Open Space and Farmland Trust Fund and the Open Space Trust Fund for the Acquisition of the Baptist Church Property in and by the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #8-2003. No one wished to be heard.

Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage on Ordinance #8-2003. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther Council discussion?

Mrs. Miller: I have one comment. There is a minor typo right after the title, the next title that is capitalized, New Jersey; the “e” was left out.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ordinance # 8-2003 as passed on Second Reading

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd reading February 11, 2003)

Ord. #9-2003 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing A
Retroactive Salary for the LAN Administrator for the Period May 1, 2002 Through
December 31, 2002.

Mr. Greenbaum moved that Ordinance #9-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on February 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

Mr. Guenther: Council discussion?

Mrs. Miller: What is a LAN Administrator?

Mrs. Lashway: The Information Technology employee.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Ord.#10-2003 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing Salaries
of Certain Non-Union Personnel for the Year 2003.

Mrs. Miller moved that Ordinance #10-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on February 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

Mr. Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

Ord.#11-2003 Ordinance Appropriating $200,000 for the Acquisition of Smith Farm Park Either Through
Purchase or Condemnation in and By the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris,
New Jersey.

Mrs. Perkins moved that Ordinance #11-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on February 11, 2003 at 7:30pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

Mr. Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.

Mr. Guenther: Is there anybody that wishes to move any consent resolutions to non-consent?

Mr. Rattner: I would like to discuss number four and number eight separately.

Mr. Scapicchio: Bernie, just a quick question for Cynthia, when we take back an EDU, do you make sure that goes back to the bank?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.
Mr. Greenbaum: I have noticed that on the Gen III there was numerous correspondence that went back and forth with regard to the Resolutions, has that all been resolved at this point, John?

Mr. Dorsey: Yes. it is. Buczynski asked that instead of one Developer’s Agreement for Sections one and two, that there be a separate agreement and a separate resolution for each section, and that is what has been done, and so that Charlene knows the agreement specifically now provide for the trail to be developed through the open space leading to Turkey Brook. It is of course subject to all the conditions that was set forth in the Planning Board’s Resolution. That is only one of them.

President Scapicchio: Any other comments? Okay.


1. Resolution RE: Temporary Capital Budget. (Smith Farm Park)

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Harry F. Metzler, L.S. & P.P. of Associated Consultants to Performa a Boundary Survey of Lots 15 and 16 in Block 800 at a Cost not to Exceed $8,500. (Smith Farm Park)

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Commencement of a Law Suit Against Olympvs.

5. Resolution Confirming the Details of the Sale of $650,000 Refunding Bond of the Township of Mount Olive in the County of Morris, New Jersey to the Morris County Improvement Authority.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Amending the Temporary Budget for 2003 for the Current Budget

7. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of Various Purchasing Contracts.

9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Block 7701 Lot 2. (Rescind EDU’s for property to be donated to Budd Lake First Aid Squad).

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing An Agreement with Morris County Adaptive Recreation Program for the Year 2003.

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Gen III Builders for Fox Chase Section I Based on Preliminary Subdivision Approval.

12. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Gen III Builders for Fox Chase Section II Based on Preliminary Subdivision Approval.


Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to pass the consent resolution agenda with the exception Resolution No. 4 and Resolution No. 8 which will be moved to the non-consent agenda. Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.


President Scapicchio: Any public comment? Seeing one.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Contract with Morris Land Conservancy.

Mr. Rattner moved Resolution No. 4, Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Public Comment? Seeing none
Mr. Rattner: The question came up last week about the amounts on the contract and I see that it has been resolved, however I do have a question that the Administration had told us that all the professionals and organizations that did business with the Town had agreed to a cut. We cut the budget from the emergency squads, all the professionals that work for the Town. This seems to one that we increased, so I was asking why was this increase when we said everybody else even when it comes to safety that we cut. Why couldn’t we negotiate this down?

Mrs. Spencer: I did speak with Laura Szwak, she was unable to be here because she broke her wrist. What they did was they did and actual cost analysis of what it was costing them to operate and they charge every town the same amount which this year came out in their cost analysis to be $7,500. I asked them if they could entertain a cost reduction and their response was the only way they could do that was to reduce the services that would be provided to the Township.

Mr. Rattner: It was just in the last couple days that we even entertained it. It wasn’t something we worked on like you did with everybody else.

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.

Mr. Rattner: So this slipped through. Okay, I have no other questions. For a couple of hundred dollars I am not going to vote no against it.

Mrs. Spencer: I believe all Council Members got a copy of her analysis of everything that was provided to the Township this year for the $7,200 last year.

President Guenther: This is just of one those things that is very hard to quantify exactly how much we are getting. It seems to me like we are getting good value for our money.

Mr. Rattner: I didn’t question that. It was just the fact that we cut everybody’s and everybody was cut equally across the board, and so this one popped up I just wanted to know what was different.

President Guenther: Any other comments from the Council?

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously

8. Resolution RE: Performance Guarantees of AIG Baker.

Mr. Greenbaum moved Resolution No. 8, Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

Mr. Dorsey: The resolution as to what is to be released is essentially based upon correspondence which is part of your file, specifically a letter from Gene Buczynski, the Township Engineer advising as to the extent to which the improvements have been completed. The fact of the matter is that when I initially drew this resolution, I omitted the release of the Goldmine Road performance guarantees and they will be dealt with at the next Public Meeting by a separate resolution. Now this resolution has been reviewed by Buczynski, reviewed by myself, it is based upon his estimate as to the extent of work that has been done and in connection with the problem with the walls, he has advised in his letter to us that AIG Baker is in the process of repairing those by issuing contracts which I understand have been issued to the subcontractors to complete those walls. The one change from the resolution from last week is that there is no reduction in cash bond and surety bond in connection with the major AIG road construction agreement. So what is in this resolution is a function of what Buczynski has given us and what Buczynski and I have reviewed to date.

Mr. Rattner: The reason why I brought it up is that if you remember at the last meeting your partner who I guess had a disagreement with what the developer had represented from a discussion with you on what should be included and what should not be included and I just wanted to make sure that was resolved because I did not see any additional correspondence.

Mr. Dorsey: This resolution may or may not be in agreement with what counts are for AIG Baker wants or would like to have, but it is what Buczynski and I have feel is appropriate under the circumstances.

President Guenther: Thank you Mr. Dorsey. Any comments from the public?

Bob Elms, Budd Lake: This doesn’t in any way release AIG Baker for the condition of those walls. They have to repair those?

Mr. Dorsey: Yes.

President Guenther: Further Council comments?

Michael McBride, Esq.: I was here last week on behalf of the developer. The resolution as written is acceptable to AIG Baker. As Mr. Dorsey said, the Goldmine Road release which is mentioned in the resolution didn’t make its way. The final resolution will be on the agenda for February 11, 2003 and that is acceptable.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously


1. Bill List.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of the Bill List as submitted. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther Council discussion or comments?

Mr. Scapicchio: Cindy, we have a payment to Kyle Conte. Payment Number 10, in the amount of $71,071. What is that for?

Mrs. Spencer: For additional work that had been completed and it was just held up while Schoor DePalma was reviewing all the specifics. They had put it together in payment 9 and 10. It was work done over the same time period but they had separated it out. It has been signed off on by Schoor Depalma the work has been done. The project is now 94% complete.

Mr. Scapicchio: Is that affidavit stating that all vendors and suppliers have been paid? Are these monies incorporated into that same affidavit that they supplied to us?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes. The paperwork that was given to Council I believe two weeks ago, certified that all the payments through the completion of this work had been made to their subcontractors.

Mr. Scapicchio: Okay.

Mr. Rattner: How much money are we withholding from them? Because we went through this about three weeks ago and we were told that amount was enough to cover any start up costs, any damage during the Winter , now we have reduced it a little bit more. So does that mean that the last number was really heavy?

Mrs. Spencer: No. We have a 2 percent retainage, which is equal to $101,755.00 and in addition there is a balance in the contract amount for $404,803.00

Mr. Rattner: So we are holding off here the $500.00?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.

Mr. Dorsey: I didn’t see the affidavit, could you give it to me sometime?

Mr. Scapicchio: We had it at the last Public Meeting.

Mr. Dorsey: I didn’t see it.

Mr. Rattner: Just out of curiosity, we had a lot of tax refunds, individual line items. In one place we had three pages of them. We had a lot of major businesses, why would we have that many refunds, because I don’t remember passing a resolution. Usually when we cancel something, we had a lot of them this time, spread all through the Bill List.

Mrs. Spencer: I don’t know the answer to that? I could get that to you.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously

Library Board Liaison Report
Mr. Scapicchio: On January 17, 2003 95% of all the mechanical electrical plumbing and structural end civil drawings were submitted to the architect for his review. On January 23, 2003 the architect had a final project review with the Mount Olive Public Library members and present to them the final material options and selection that they need to make, the architect has requested that all consultants deliver 100% of the drawing by January 31, 2003 for final review. He further told us that the assembly of all the bid documents would take approximately 10 days for him to complete. The project is anticipated, ready for public bidding on February 12, 2003 subject to review time of approximately one week including the legal review by the Township Attorney, Mr. Dorsey, and the library consultants anticipate the awarding of contracts during the week of March 17, 2003. Assuming that the above timeline is maintained, it is anticipated that the project mobilization would begin within two weeks of the award of contracts and notice to proceed. Work would begin on or about April 1, 2003. The estimated time to complete the project and prepare for occupancy is plus or minus 13 months. That’s the Library Report.

Recreation Report

Mr. Guenther: None at this time. There was no meeting since the last time. We will be meeting the first Wednesday in February.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Perkins: There was no meeting. We will be meeting the first Thursday of every month. The Planning Board had some conflicts. We polled all the Board Members and the Board has opted to move to the first Thursday permitting that way the Planning Board will have the second and third and they will hopefully be able to schedule any public meetings for the fourth Thursday thereby not causing conflict between them.

Planning Board Report

Mr. Greenbaum: We met the third Thursday of January; there were two issues that I want to bring to everyone’s attention. First we have a new lawsuit from Mr. Hashemi with regard to the preliminary approval that he did receive in the denial of his final approval which he did not receive. That is back before Judge Stanton at this point in time. Also we dealt with a very interesting application; once again, Rezamir was before the Planning Board. That is the 20 lot sub-division between River Road and Drakestown Road. Rezamir was before the Planning Board on their conventional layout map to determine density because they are going for a cluster development. They argue that they are entitled to 20 lots and interestingly enough, there is an ordinance in Mount Olive, when you consider a conventional layout for purposes of clustering, you are not allowed to include variances and waivers. Interestingly there is a Mount Olive ordinance which states that a block length shall not be greater than 1500 feet in a residential application. The block length even before you got to where Rezamir had to extend was 1600 feet. Under that interpretation and we were not allowed to just not consider that ordinance, he is not entitled to any houses and with that we all came to the determination that he should go to R.S.I.S to determine whether or not his argument that particular Mt. Olive ordinance has been superceded by the R.S.I.S with respect to the number of daily trips allowed and if he loses on that issue, he cannot cluster because he cannot establish that he is entitled to any houses. It was quite the interesting argument. I assume if he loses on that issue, he has to come back with the conventional layout and seek a variance, so I don’t know where it is going to go from there. It was a very interesting meeting.

Open Space Committee Report

Mrs. Miller: You have received your packets today, the Open Space Achievements 2002 and their proposed goals. Since you all have it in writing, I don’t think I need to go over it. Thank you.

Legislative Committee Report – None. Mr. Spino was not at the meeting.

Pride Committee Report

Mr. Perkins: Last month the Pride Committee was with the Chamber doing some awards for the Holiday contest. There was not a formal meeting, so there is nothing to report.

Status of Committee RE: Lake/Environment Issues

Mrs. Miller: They are not meeting until February 25, 2003.

Board of Education Report

Mr. Scapicchio: Last night’s School Board meeting - they approved the lease purchase program for temporary classrooms for the High School. They are going to park those temporary classrooms in the front of the building over to the right near the gymnasium, the Board also plans to keep Steve and I included in the budget process as the liaisons, the hope is that in the event that their budget fails, we have a better understanding of how they prepare and put together that budget. They also passed a resolution approving the shared cost of that blinking light over at Sandshore School. They expressed their appreciation for the efforts that the Administration and Police Department have put forth in terms of helping with parking and traffic around all of the schools in the Township. Thank you, Bernie.


Mr. Bonte: I have a question regarding the Bill List. There are two items on here. I don’t know if they occur in any other places. They are each about $1,000 a year and that is pagers for the Breaking News Service Network. Does anybody know why we need breaking news network pagers for employees? Page one, there is one in animal control, the second line down. On Page 13, there is another one. I don’t know if there is any others in here, or if they occur on other Bill Lists, but I am just curious, I know what the service is, and I really don’t understand why our employees need this.

Mr. Scapicchio: What is the service?

Mr. Bonte: It is a pager device that constantly updates you on news, stock quotes, etc. etc.

Bob Elms, Budd Lake: I do have some questions on the Bill List. I am looking at the general capitol accounts and I see a lot of things here that maybe I don’t understand the capital accounts for the Township vs. Capital accounts for a business, but a lot of things in here don’t appear to be capital items. Payments to Dorsey and Fisher for $259.00. Professional services for PE, an architect for initial payment, structural fire turnout gear, which is expendable. I know it was a business expense, capital has to be capital that you could then advertise.

Mr. Rattner: In business you would capitalize legal, architects, anything like that in a major project. If you are going to build something, all of the costs, including, you could actually capitalize in business, your employee costs because you can capitalize that part and put it in there. The turnout gear I know specifically because it comes up in the budget and that is the turnout gear that could run a couple thousand dollars per responder and they have a life expectancy of five to ten years and it is allowable. There is a book the State has, when you buy different things, when you can capitalize it and pay it off or buy a bond over a certain length of time. Because of all the projects we’ve had, it would be nice to pay cash when we could and some towns do. We have not been able to do that, but that is something that can be capital. It may a piece, when we have capital, we’ll do $20,000 worth of turnout gear, each man gets his own and we don’t replace it every year. So since it has a life expectancy that exceeds a year, you can capitalize it. It is allowable under that State Statute.

Mr. Elms: Okay. I thought it would be worth while to review that account, whether or not they really capital.

Mr. Rattner: With capital, when I look at it I have liked the idea that you pay as you go. Hanover for example has very little debt, but when you are doing a lot of things it is just not practical and if it is going to last you for a certain length of time, you try spreading it out accordingly.

Mr. Elms: Okay, on page 10, why are we paying for a post office box, isn’t the mail delivered here? $660.00 a year.

Mr. Rattner: It’s a big box.

Mr. Elms: I realize that but they are obligated to deliver mail to the Municipal Building aren’t they?

Mrs. Lashway: If we got our mail from the post office it would be coming from Hackettstown. I think it is a timing issue why the Township has always gone and picked it up. This location right here is considered Hackettstown. That is why we made the address Mt. Olive and use a P.O. Box.

Mr. Elms: Under the recreation trust, Page 17, a Lakeland Bus line rental for a ski trip? And also a ski trip for the Joseph Family?

Jill Daggon: The Lakeland Bus bill is for four buses every Friday take 188 children and 25 chaperones up to Shawnee and they have already paid for that busing and their registration fees. So all of that has been taking care of Mrs. Daggon (cont’d): ahead of time by what it costs the children to participate in the program. There is no cost to taxpayers. The other one for the Jones Family is they are getting a refund because they had a refund in their family, they are entitled to a refund that they contributed, we are paying back to them.

President Guenther: Thank you, Jill. Any other public comments?

Mr. Elms: Why is that $1,900 item even in the budget, if it is paid for by the skiers?

President Guenther: You have to pay the bill. It is a check list. Its checks, it does not affect the budget. It is just a payment.

Mr. Elms: Where is the income of that $1,900.00?

President Guenther: We don’t get income statements every month. It is just a payment.

Mrs. Spencer: It comes through and it’s deposited in our Recreation Trust Account.


Mr. Rattner: Just two quick things. Tonight we approved the final thing we had to with the Morris County Improvement Authority with the refinancing some debt that we had with the pension fund. First I want to say that for us and for the amount of money, it was a very good deal, but in comparing what the County, I believe the County went out for $8 million. Being Chairman of the Musconetcong Sewage Authority, I went out for $13 million the same week. I did it through a private placement and the rates I got were 28% less than what the Morris County Improvement Authority is charging us. I went out for$13 million for twelve years, they went out 14 years, I just cut it out at the twelve year period, so I don’t know what they did. But I can show by year, because they gave us a nice schedule what it was. I don’t know if they are making money, or trying to cover other costs, but it did come out, especially in the last year, the rate. It was a difference of 5.25 in 2,014 bond and the rate that we were able to get was 4.18 and it is going to the same market.

Mr. Scapicchio: What was the bank Steve?

Mr. Rattner: The prior place, we ended up going with Watchovia, was the one who underwrote it and went out and sold it.

Mr. Scapicchio: That is First Union right?

Mr. Rattner: Yes. I am just saying, for $650,000 we would not have gone out and gotten the same rates, because there is a certain amount of costs with the underwriting and everything else, that it would have been a lot of other costs. I am just saying that I know the County went out for about $9 million and so that is comparable and we should have gotten comparable rates. I don’t know if they have other costs, if they are putting some in reserve, or what it is. We have a large amount. We will look at the County Improvement Authority, but we may still be better doing it ourselves. That question came up when we did the financing last summer, and I can’t go back and look exactly at what would have happened there, but it looks like we did not lose anything by not using Morris County Improvement Authority.

Mrs. Spencer: They were not ready.

Mr. Rattner: This is something that was in the same week, we both went out. So, the other thing is the budget, the Mayor gave us the budget two weeks ago and I believe most of us have probably gone through it at least once. I have gone through it a couple of times. I don’t think we are going to be making much of any big changes any which way. It looks like it’s a very tight budget; however we are going to have the one budget hearing. There is probably a lot of questions. I would request that everybody after they review and come up with any of their issues or comments, to route them to Dave and I who are on the budget sub-committee so we could put together one list of questions or additional information that we will want so that when we discuss it at the Budget Hearing on Saturday, the Administration will have it ahead of time so they do not have to go back and maybe ask the same question two or three times. When we get it, Dave and I, I expect will be with the Administration once prior at least to the meeting to make sure that the information that was requested was there and any other things that we may come up with. There are no big things in there that I think we could move much around. Some I am actually scared of, especially the way the Winter is going with storms and some other issues. The only thing I could probably give the Administration a head start on is give us some of the same things that were requested last year. That was a vendor

Mr. Rattner (cont’d): list, and an account summary list. If you could put it on CD, that would probably be just as good, instead of the paper that would come up to about two inches. I believe we also asked last year for all the employees with the W2 dollars, as was there annual salary so we could figure it in to the different departments.

Mrs. Spencer: I believe that the salary information is in the Budget sheets, isn’t it?

Mr. Rattner: But it is very hard to file because you have base salary, and you have other things you don’t have. So last year I believe, it was the Council President and asked for it in a format, the employees listed with the W2 amounts, this way we would be able to figure it out.

Mrs. Spencer: Just reiterate. You would like the vendor list, and also employees W2.

Mr. Rattner: Account summary, in other words the vendor list by vendor. So when we want to look, how many cellular telephones we actually have in the whole Town, we’ll see it by the vendor or by the account.

President Guenther: Lets get all the questions to Steve and then he can…

Mr. Rattner: And Dave. We are doing this together. We’ll work together and give the Administration one set of what we would expect for that Saturday, so hopefully we could resolve everything in that one day.

Mr. Greenbaum: Out of interest I called up the Tax Department to find out where my taxes have gone since I moved into town. When I moved into town originally, my taxes were approximately $6,800. My taxes last year were $7,500. Obviously the majority of the taxes go for the funding of the School Board. Most of the additional taxes which I pay since I moved into town go to the funding of school related issues. My taxes have risen for municipal services over the time that I have lived in Town approximately $160.00 and I moved into town in 1997. Now when you consider the reduction that I received in terms of Sewer, Water, Sanitation, I am probably paying less for municipal services today than I did when I moved into town in 1997. When you consider all of the different services that you get from the Township including police and fire protection, road maintenance, snow removal, recreation, the new parks that we have in Town, I think that we are all pretty far ahead.

President Guenther: Thank you Mr. Greenbaum. I do have a couple of final comments. The supplement which Steve said the budget hearing will be on February 22, 2003. Saturday, we are going to start promptly at 9:00. I suggest, one of the things that interested me last year is I like to see trends. We did not have enough trends in the budget presentation so what I have done is I do have my budget from last year which gives actual 2000-2001 expenditures. When I talked to Sherry, she suggested that if we want to see those trends we can work off both budget sheets and accounts should be pretty much equal from year to year. There haven’t been any major changes made in the accounts, so I suggest to anyone that still has last year’s, bring it along so we can make those comparisons. Also, we were batting around a few dates for the workshop meeting on the Old Municipal Complex, it will now be February 18, 2003. It will be the first item on the agenda, if we finish at 11:00 everything else will be pushed to the next workshop meeting. I am determined to get the Old Municipal building behind us and hopefully come up with a solution as to what will occur. I am going to run a fairly loose meeting as far as public input. Anybody from the public that wants to contribute, we will have public portions. I look forward to the public comments and hopefully we can reach a consensus as to how we should move forward. Gene Buczynski will be here to give his report along with his expert that did the original; I guess who did the study some months back. Anybody else that you feel should be here, let me know.


Motion made for adjournment. All in Favor, none opposed. The Meeting was Adjourned at 9:20 pm.

Council President

I, LISA M. LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on May 13, 2003.

Township Clerk



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