Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
July 22, 2003

The Public Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to Order at 9:25 pm by Council President Bernhard Guenther with the Pledge of Allegiance.

MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women fighting terrorism and those who have lost their lives defending the freedom we all enjoy


According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Spino, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Greenbaum
Mr. Guenther, Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Scapicchio, Mrs. Miller

ALSO PRESENT: Mayor Licitra; Cynthia Spencer, Business Administrator; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk; Peter King, Township Attorney.

PUBLIC HEARING - Open Space Grant Application – Crown Tower Estates

President Guenther: Any comments from the public about our grant application?

Kathy Murphy, Grants Coordinator: As you know we are required to have a Public Hearing for the application to the Morris County Open Space Trust. This year our application is going to be an additional submission for Crown Towers which received a million dollars in grant funds two years ago and happily of course we finally reached an agreement with the owner. This has been a long time coming with a lot of support with a bunch of different groups, trusts and public agencies, the government, Township Council, and the Mayor in support of this so we are very pleased to have this option agreement to purchase the property. So with that we are returning to the Morris County Open Space Trust to request additional funds towards the purchase of the property, so that is part of the Public Hearing requirement which has been advertised, so we would like to give the public the opportunity to be aware of the application being filed and give them an opportunity to raise their feelings about that submission.

Laura Szwak, Chairwoman of the Open Space Committee: Just as Turkey Brook Park is the crown jewel of active recreation, this application, Firetower Ridge, has the potential of being the crown jewel for resource based recreation not only for Mount Olive, but for the Highlands. It is a poster child for Highlands protection. It has all the values that the Highlands are being preserved for endangered species, protection of water quality and quantity. It is uphill from Budd Lake which is the head waters of the south branch of the Raritan and of course it is a great playground for outdoor recreation natural resources based. It is a great partnership with the Town, non-profit organization, Trust for Public Lands, County, State, Federal Agencies and if you saw the movie the Emperor’s Club, and you saw Kevin Kline rowing his row boat into the ridge from Budd Lake, that ridge would look a lot different with a bunch of houses on it than it would with all the trees as it was in the movie. Hopefully that scene will stay that way forever. Thank you.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I guess you could imagine how thrilled I am that we are at this point this evening. Just about four years ago, I sat down with Laura and the Open Space Committee and we were kind of told that it was probably too late to save this property. It has taken a long effort and cooperation of a lot of people including Laura and the Open Space Committee and Kathy and countless other people, hundreds of people, members of the public that came to meeting after meeting for over two years and I am looking forward to the ultimate acquisition of this property by, I guess most likely, it is going to be the State and the expansion of Allamuchy State Park within to the boundaries of the Township. This property will become valuable for the citizens of the State and for years and years in the future, people will I think be thankful that this action was taken and I urge your approval of this grant application this evening. Thank you to everybody that had involvement helping this project get to the point that it is at.

President Guenther: Thank you. Anybody else?

Judith Hirky, Budd Lake: I cannot be as eloquent as the previous speakers, but I endorse everything they have said. I, too, say please go along with our acquisition of the marvelous woodlands and the water and even the bears, thank you.

Bob Elms, Budd Lake: On July 15th, you called a special meeting to introduce Ordinance 30-2003 and I noticed that tonight we are introducing Ordinance 32-2003 and they are both identical ordinances. What is going on? I thought you would like to answer that, Mr. Guenther.

Mr. King: There was question with the notice requirements so to insure that if there ever was a glitch with the notice procedure that no one could challenge this down the road and the Township would be out six months of possible taxes.

Mr. Elms: So we are introducing two ordinances to make sure we get something through?

Mr. King: No, we are introducing two ordinances to insure that there would be no challenges down the road. We are still going to have a special meeting on July 29, 2003.

Mrs. Lashway: We were having a special meeting anyway. We are having a special meeting; yes, we are for second reading on ordinance…

Mr. Elms: And the 29th is a public hearing on that ordinance, right?

Mrs. Lashway: Yes.

Mr. Elms: Thank you.

President Guenther: Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, we will move on to Administrative Matters.

ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS – Proclamation - National Parent’s Day

Mayor Licitra: Thank you, Mr. President.

WHEREAS, parenthood is a profound blessing, bringing with it responsibilities that are both challenging and rewarding; and

WHEREAS, parents play a critical role in shaping their children’s character by sharing important life-lessons, values and showing them how to love and care for others; and

WHEREAS, we face the challenges of a new era, families remain the foundation of our civil society; and parents are the corner-stone of strong families; and

WHEREAS, important responsibilities often presents difficult problems and trying circumstances as parents balance competing demands such as making a living, raising their children, and participating in their communities; and

WHEREAS, no law can insure that people love one another, but we can support initiatives that help couples learn how to build successful marriages and be good parents.

NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed that I, Paul R. Licitra, Mayor of Mount Olive Township do hereby proclaim, July 28th 2003 as “Parents Day” in Mount Olive Township.


President Guenther: I don’t have anything, I vented in the last meeting.


President Guenther: Questions on Bill List?

Mr. Rattner: I just spoke to Mrs. Spencer before the meeting, we have a large bill to pay toward the contractor for the library, so I just ask that at some point just to give us a quick status on what has been done, I don’t have a problem with the Bill List and the back up, but just so you can explain where we are on it since we are starting to make the payments to the contractor.

Mrs. Lashway: We also did receive today a Municipal Mechanics Lien on payment to the library. I faxed it over to Mr. Dorsey as soon as I got it.



July 8, 2003 CS Present: President Guenther, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Spino,
Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller
Absent: Mr. Perkins

July 15, 2003 Present: Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino, Mr. Perkins,
Mr. Guenther, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Greenbaum

Mr. Rattner moved for the approval of the Minutes; Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Perkins abstained on July 8, 2003 and Mr. Greenbaum abstained on July 15, 2003.


League of Municipalities

1. Letter received July 7, 2003, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding League Discount on Grant Service.

2. E-mail received July 7, 2003, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding State Budget Wrap up.
. E-mail received July 7, 2003, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Update on Mayors Rally for Property Tax Reform.

4. Legislative Bulletin received July 15, 2003, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Bills that were enacted as Public Laws of 2003.

DOT / DEP / Permit’s / LOI’s

5. Land Use Program Application Form (LURP #1) received July 7, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection Re: Applicant Alan Cooper / A letter of Interpretation - Line Verification is requested for the property: Block 2604, Lot 2 (William Drive, Budd Lake).

6. Letter received July 7, 2003, from Master Consulting regarding Application for Boundaries of Freshwater Wetlands on the property at Block 4, Lot 7(Washington Township)

7. Letter received July 12, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Letter of Interpretation – Line Verification Applicant: Mt. Olive Center Associates Block 4100; Lots 80& 84 (73 Route 46, 95 Route 46)

Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from Other Towns

8. Ordinance received July 7, 2003, from the Town of Hackettstown regarding Land Use.

9. Resolution received July 14, 2003, from Rockaway Township regarding Support of Senate Bill #169 and proposing a Statewide Water Consumption Surcharge to Provide Adequate and Permanent Property Tax Relief for Water Resource Communities.

10. Letter received July 15, 2003, from the Borough of Surf City regarding Constitutional Convention.

11. Resolution received July 16, 2003, from Rockaway Township regarding Opposing the Utilization of Emergency Medical Technician Training Funds for purposes other than volunteer EMT Training and Recruitment as Proposed in the Legislation that created the fund.

Correspondence from Organizations, Committees, Boards

12. Newsletter received July 14, 2003, from Mount Olive Township Historical Society regarding MOTHS Member Sworn in as Official Township Historian, Eagle Scout Projects, Bylaws Amended, Seward Mansion Update, Casino and Meuhlbauer House Updates, and Turkey Brook Opening Ceremonies.

13. Minutes received July 7, 2003, from the Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding the Meeting of June 4th.

Letter received July 7, 2003, from Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding Amendment Proposal, Morris Companies Development. (Waterloo Valley Road)

15. Notice received July 7, 2003, from Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding Informational Meeting on July 7th.

16. Letter received July 14, 2003, from Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding the Department Denial of the MSA’s Wastewater Management Plan Amendment.

Correspondence from Legislative Representatives

17. E-mail received July 2, 2003, from Congressman Frelinghuysen’s regarding His July Newsletter.

18. Letter received July 10, 2003, from Shannon K. Rauschenbach, Chief of Staff, Office of Assemblywoman Alison McHose regarding a complaint with Cablevision from a Mr. Neil Paley of Budd Lake.

19. Newsletter received July 11, 2003, from Congressman Frelinghuysen’s regarding Flood Control, Shore Protection and Fusion research.

20. E-mail received July 15, 2003, from Congressman Frelinghuysen regarding securing $10 million for President Bush’s Proposed DC Scholarship School Choice Program.


21. Claim received July 11, 2003 regarding Standard Distribution of Division’s Action in the Matter of Disciplinary Proceedings Against: Alpha Centauri Inc., License number: 1427-33-021-006.


22. Fax received July 10, 2003, from Comcast regarding Windows now being available, Scholarships, Upgrades and Additions to Northwest Digital Service.

23. Letter received July 17, 2003, from Comcast regarding the “Comcast Leaders of Tomorrow Scholarship.”

Tort Claims

24. Summons received July 16, 2003, from Morris County Superior Court regarding Ernest B. Gonzalez; Gerri Jayne husband and wife, Michael J. McDonald and Kimarie Rahill McDonald, husband and wife, Jeffery R. Budin and Jane C. Budin, husband and wife, and John Slavinski and Debra J. Slavinski, husband and wife v. CEI Land, Inc. a New Jersey Corporation and James G. Glasson and Jeffrey J. Careaga.

President Guenther: Any comments on the correspondence? Seeing none.


President Guenther opened the public hearing on:

Ord.#26-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Revision to the Code of the Township of Mount Olive, Part II, Chapter 400 Lane Use, Article V Design Guidelines and Technical Standards, Section 400-74 Surface Water Management Subsection E Design Standards.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I want to urge your approval of this amendment to our ordinance. It recognizes the impact that storms can have in Highlands areas and gives the Township and the Planning Board one additional tool to adequately control development and make sure the development that takes place within Mount Olive is done not only to meet existing state regulations, but takes into account localized conditions that may be more severe than other portions of the State and assure that stormwater management facilities are adequate for storms that can occur in this area of the State. I want to thank Mr. Buczynski for the work that he did in this area, and again, I urge your approval of this ordinance modification. Thank you.

President Guenther: Any further comments from the Public? Seeing none, I’ll close the public portion.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #26-2003. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ordinance #26-2003 as passed on second reading and hereby directed the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (Second Reading – August 12, 2003)

Ord. #31-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive to Amend and Revise Certain Standards for Signs as Provided for in Section 400-95, Entitled “Signs” Within Article VI Entitled “Zoning” as Contained in Chapter 400 Entitled “Land Use.”

Mr. Perkins moved that Ordinance #31-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on August 12, 2003 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive Township New Jersey and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Ord. #32-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Imposition of a Municipal Hotel and Motel Occupancy Tax as Authorized by P.L. 2003, C. 114.

Mr. Rattner moved that Ordinance #32-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on August 12, 2003 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive Township New Jersey and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Spino who voted no.


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Accepting Certain Deeds from the Vizzoni Group, Inc.

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Not Renewing Alcoholic Beverage License #1427-31-027-001 Owned by the Musconetcong Temple Association.

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Complying with the Promulgation of the Local Finance Board of the State of New Jersey with Regard to the 2002 Annual Audit.

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing Additional Remedial Investigation Services Under a Professional Services Contract with Suburban Consulting Engineers for the Charters Farm Soil Remediation.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Increasing the Appropriation for Forensic Engineering Services Provided by Frank Brennan from the Turkey Brook Park Litigation Fund.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Closing Old Wolfe Road Between Treetop Road and Wolfe Road on Saturday, August 16, 2003.

7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to PCI-Professional Consulting, Inc. Parsippany, New Jersey, for the Engineering Services Relative to Tank Painting at Village Green at a Sum of $29,250.

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing an Application to the Morris County Open Space and Farmland Trust for the Acquisition of Crown Towers/Firetower Ridge.

9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to VCI Emergency Vehicle Specialists for a New E-450 Chassis Ambulance for Budd Lake First Aid and Rescue.

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of an Application to NJDEP/Water Supply Administration for Lakeview Estates Garden Homes.

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the Director of the Division of Local Government Services for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2003 Municipal Budget ($13,978.87 for the Bulletproof Vest Partnership Grant Program).

12. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the Director of the Division of Local Government Services for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2003 Municipal Budget ($2,405.72 for the State and Local All Hazards Emergency Operation Planning Program).

13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Use of a State Purchasing Contract. (Absolute Fire Protection).

14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the Director of the Division of Local Government Services for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2003 Municipal Budget ($2,586.45 for Alcohol, Education & Rehabilitation).

15. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the Director of the Division of Local Government Services for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2003 Municipal Budget ($24,325.28 for Clean Communities Program)

16. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Brooklake Partners, LLC (American Instants – Old Budd Moving Building)

17. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Change Order in the Contract of Schoor DePalma in the Amount of $1,830.00 for the Redesign Modification of Sanitary Sewer Lines at Turkey Brook Park.

18. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Mutual Aid Agreement with the Town of Hackettstown Fire Department.


President Guenther: Is there any item that any Council member would request to have taken off?

Mrs. Lashway: I believe we are taking off resolution # 7.

Mr. Rattner: I also request that we take resolution # 16 off the consent and do it separately since the first time we are seeing it is tonight. I don’t believe we discussed it at the workshop.

Mrs. Lashway: You all have a new Agenda packet in front of you.

Mr. Rattner: That is for people who don’t realize that was the Old Budd moving building, something that has been tied up with the DEP and everything else, just that the developer’s agreement wasn’t completed until after the weekend, but I just felt that it should be on separately since we had not discussed it before.

President Guenther: Okay.

Mr. Greenbaum moved Consent Resolutions 1 through 6, and 8 through 15, and 17 & 18. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Anyone from the public? Seeing none, I’ll close the public hearing.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther: Now we have the non-consent resolution which was number 16.

16. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Brooklake Partners, LLC (American Instants – Old Budd Moving Building).

Mr. Rattner moved for adoption of the Resolution and Mr. Spino seconded the motion.

President Guenther: It is my understanding this is really a change of name situation where they are changing from one name to the other. There is also a deadline that they are up against, September 1, 2003, when their LOI with the state DEP expires, so they requested this on an urgent basis so they have to get something in the ground or start some construction otherwise they lose their LOI application and have to go through that whole process again. As it is typical with the State DEP, they have delayed this project.

Mr. Rattner: I support the resolution; I just wanted it on the Non-Consent because since we have seen it, the public hasn’t, they understand that this is on so that if they wanted to comment on it, they understand that this was not something that we previously discussed.

Mr. Greenbaum: I assume that the agreement has been thoroughly reviewed by Mr. Dorsey’s office and is standard in all respects?

Mr. King: John has reviewed it, yes.


President Guenther: Any further comments? I’ll open it to the public. Any public comments? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously.


1. Bill List.

Mr. Spino moved for approval of the Bill List and Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

Mr. Rattner: One comment, we heard from the Business Administrator previously about Turkey Brook so that we know where the buildings are because we have a check for Consolidated, the other is just that, or at least I would like a thumbnail of where we are with the Library.

Mrs. Spencer: Based on where this bill came in, I believe the site work; they have put in the sanitary sewer, or sanitary water line and the basins for that. I know that they were working to complete the actual drains with the sewer grate covers, that sort of thing is being worked on today. So they are still doing site work at this point.

President Guenther: Any further questions? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously.

2. Approval of Raffle Application #1087 for the Mount Olive High School Parents Club; Raffle Application #1088 for the Mount Olive Jewish Center; Raffle Application #1089 for the Budd Lake First Aid & Rescue Squad; and Raffle Application #1090 for St. Elizabeth Ann Seton; and Raffle Application #1091 & #1092 for the Starlight Chapter #107, Order of Eastern Star.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of the Raffle Applications and Mr. Spino seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously


Library Board Liaison Report

President Guenther: Mr. Scapicchio isn’t here, but I attended a meeting this last week. There were some issues that came up on site regarding the drainage areas that there being dug and in fact we have found what appeared to be a gap in our current ordinances as far as covering that aspect of site work. We’re very well covered when it comes to the actual inspection of the building as it is being built, but there seems to be and I want our Township engineer to review this, there seems to be no provision to inspect the drainage work that’s done beforehand before it is covered up. It is only done at the CO level when it is too late. When all the back fill has been put in. So I think we have to look at that to make sure to give the power to whomever, be it the Township Engineer and he delegates it to the DPW or whatever to make sure that is done. I think that Mr. DiGennaro had some concerns because he has run into problems with stormwater drain situations all over Town that have caved in and are in bad condition. Not that necessarily that was a design flaw or that was something that was done wrong at the beginning, but it seems to be a problem and I think he had a legitimate concern that this is something that should be addressed so we will have to look at that in the future. But otherwise things seem to be progressing very well at the library site but I don’t have anymore detail.

Mr. Perkins: Bernie, wouldn’t that be something a construction manager that they hire would be overseeing?

President Guenther: No. He claims he is not an inspector. He himself has admitted he is not an inspector. They claim that out of courtesy, they contacted Russ Brown, but Russ said, that’s not me I am in charge of construction of the actual building. He turned it over to DPW and Mark sent Frank McGlynn over to look at it, and he found certain faults, certain adjustments that had to be made, the gist that I got out of the meeting Cindy, correct me if I am wrong is that they really did not feel that they had a legal obligation to do this. This type of inspection is usually done when the CO finally comes in. But when the whole thing is finished at the end, it is too late.

Mr. Rattner: Let’s forget that this happens to be a government job in every term. If we have a developer whether it was AIG/Baker, whether it is Toll Brothers, or anybody else, the Township is responsible for doing the inspections. That is without a question. That’s why you have escrow. The developer pays for it, but it’s there. When you put down pipe you have to make sure that you have the right base and the compaction and everything else because the specs have a lot of things when you’re putting in soil, you are doing one foot less. That means every time you put a foot of soil in, you pound it down, then you put in the next. This should be no different than any other job. We can’t keep pointing fingers back and forth. Somebody had to be responsible. I would think it would be a Township office because it is the Township inspector that inspects every other job that is in Town. This should not be any different. I don’t understand what the question is. The answer is that we should have somebody out there inspecting it, otherwise how do we know anything is done right? We do plumbing, the electrical, the framing.

President Guenther: It is a shame that Gene is not here. He wasn’t available last week, he was on vacation, and otherwise he probably would have been at the meeting. I should have asked Gene the question before he left tonight.

Mr. Rattner: I don’t know if that is a Gene question, other than somebody has to direct him to go out and do an inspection. He does not go out on his own. Once we get a job where we tell him that he is doing the inspections for a certain job than he knows to go. But somebody has to give somebody inspection notice. They don’t show up by accident.

President Guenther: Everybody including our Township Employees seem to agree that there was nothing to obligate them to look at the drainage system before it goes back to them. They did it as a matter of courtesy, there was no legal obligation for them to do it. That is the conclusion we came to at the meeting.

Mr. Rattner: AIG/Baker we did because we had problems doing that. We’ve had problems before.

Mr. King: Usually there is someone always monitoring the program. There are very detailed project notes that go into how much material was used, the time that it was used, the equipment that was used to put that material in there, and that is done to make sure that as you say, the stormwater sewer lines or whatever they are doing is done correctly to specs and also standard.

Mr. Rattner: When I put in my sewer connection I had to have the inspector up there a couple of times. After they dug the hole, then when they put in the fill, that was the Township. I was told that was required by law. You are saying that if we build a library that same stuff isn’t?

President Guenther: I am just repeating what I was told.

Mr. Spino: Are you talking about drainage or sewer lines?

President Guenther: Drainage.

Mr. Spino: I am not sure, and this is a guess. I would think Gene would be responsible for looking at the drainage.

President Guenther: But that’s why I want him to look at it to make sure our ordinance covers that clearly.

Mr. Spino: But I am not saying that is the case

Mrs. Lashway: There is no Developer’s agreement for the library, therefore there is no inspection fees to pay Gene; it would be DPW. Frank Dolan performed those types of inspections when they built the Middle School. So it is the Township Engineering division. The fact that there is no money to pay Gene, it would be the Township who would be making those inspections.

Mr. Rattner: I get the same thing when they built the Middle School with Sonny going out there doing the same thing, that there was no money to draw from. The issue is, on every other job we had, there were those types of inspections.

President Guenther: Is that covered in the developer’s agreement in storm drains that they have to be inspected?

Mr. Rattner: All the improvements.

President Guenther: Well then there is something wrong when we do a public project like this.

Mrs. Spencer: Because there is no developer’s agreement, and therefore Blackstone believed that they were, as a courtesy, asking DPW to come and take a look at it. DPW on the other hand, who has to sign off on a CO, is not going to sign off unless they have seen that the job is done to spec. It is all ironed out now, we are getting schedules, we know when the inspections have to be done, and Frank McGlynn is on site within an hour of notification and we are moving the job along. But that was the difficulty. There is no developer’s agreement, so Blackstone had no knowledge that this was a requirement. They did not invite DPW, or the Township Engineer to the preconstruction meeting so there was no sharing of the timeline or any advanced notice up until the day that someone came in and said, could you come over and inspect. And part of the job had been completed.
President Guenther: Steve, you and I have had this discussion before; it seems to be that whenever public projects are involved we seem to skirt the corners of what’s required.

Mr. Spino: There is no developer’s agreement.

Mr. Rattner: There is still a requirement to…

Mr. Spino: I understand that. The problem is that is all picked up in the developer’s agreement when the Township Engineer, Gene’s office and Frank Dolan did the work.

President Guenther: As Cindy says, we did resolve it, but it is something that fell through the cracks and I think somehow we have to address it and maybe something has got to be put in the ordinance that says when there are public projects and there is no developer’s agreement, these inspections will be done.

Mr. Rattner: What we need is we need the same specifications and requirements that are in a developer’s agreement because we are the owner, or with the Library I am not sure how that works, quasi owner. But the thing is we still need the same inspections, we still need the same level of safety for the public. We still have to meet the same codes. There is no reason why we shouldn’t come up with the same list. A lot of the stuff in the inspections on the Developer’s Agreement are all…We need the same thing on every single job we do. Just because it is a government job, why does government think that we can get away with not doing the same thing that we make any other developer, any other private citizen has to go through. That is how we end up with problems like this.

Mr. Greenbaum: I disagree with Steve. Bernie, in terms of us thinking, I agree with you that there is a deficiency that needs to be corrected. We don’t try to skirt, it is just that we don’t have the proper procedure in place to do what we all believe is necessary and right. We need to have that corrected by way of adoption of an ordinance which requires that Township and any of the quasi Township agencies to go through the same procedures that a developer would go through in terms of inspections. So I would ask that Mr. Dorsey’s office take a look at that issue.

Recreation Liaison Report

President Guenther: We are going to form a committee to look at the expansion of the recreation committee.

Mayor Licitra: Are you drafting up an ordinance Ray?

Mr. Perkins: That has now gone back into Mr. Guenther’s hands.

President Guenther: That is what I am saying.

Mrs. Lashway: An Ordinance was prepared and I was going to schedule for tonight’s meeting. Cindy brought to my attention that Jill had some other concerns about the expansion of that committee beyond just the one member and how that committee really is supposed to be made up and possibly a separate committee involving sports organizations. My recommendation to the Council President was to have a meeting with the Mayor, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Guenther and Jill to decide how they want this committee to be formed rather than just put one member now and then have to go back and expand it to four members for additional, and that you have a meeting before we put that on for first reading.

Mayor Licitra: I have no problem with that. My thought was that I was not going to expand it anymore. I was going to let the recreation committee put sub-committees on there instead of having…

President Guenther: That could be, let’s discuss it Paul, because there appears to be major issues that have come up several times at meetings. One of the problems the committee has is that you have a hard time getting a quorum. A lot of times that I have been there, there have only been three voting members, so maybe it is our proposal, to expand the committee, make sure enough voting members show up, or do something bifurcated in the way that Jill is suggesting, or have subcommittees as you are saying. But I think we should have a very wide discussion because we are getting more and more sports groups and some of them are feeling they are not represented. For example, the people that are mostly on there are the sports organizations. But what about seniors that have recreational needs. Are they represented? No, they are not represented. I don’t know, it is something we should discuss. Do you want to be part of that discussion Ray?

Mr. Perkins: Sure, I would appreciate being on that.

President Guenther: Okay, so myself, Cindy, you, Jill, lets not make it a cast of thousands, okay. I think this is enough.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Perkins: There was no meeting.

Planning Board Report

Mr. Greenbaum: A couple of issues were discussed at length. Some were a little quicker, there was one application, as I recall, it was a minor sub-division up in Country Club Estates, it involved splitting one lot into two, with a request for a variance I believe as an existing front yard setback on the house that was currently on the property with all the respects, the properties were conforming to the ordinance and it was approved; preliminary approval. There was very significant discussion relating to ARD which I believe is Morris Chase. They are the ones that got approval in 1991 originally and then came back and got a 10 year extension and have since gotten a one year extension, and now are seeking a further indefinite extension is what they came in for. By a five to four vote, it was decided to table the issue until the next meeting. Five people wanted to hear from what Toll Brothers explanation was for the requested extension. Four people were prepared to vote on the extension as it was presented at the meeting. It should be interesting. I am not sure how it is going to go. I could tell you this, my feeling on the consensus is, at best they are going to get a one or two year extension and at worse they are going to get no extension. So, it should be very interesting.

President Guenther: Was there any hint at all for what their reasons were further…

Mr. Greenbaum: Well there was a lot of discussion about the different things that they have had to go through both in terms of problems with the DEP, and what Toll Brothers was prepared to do on a going forward basis in the very near future. The Planning Board has taken the position generally that they are not going to grab more than a one year extension. As you know, as a matter of law, applicants are entitled to, I believe, three one year extensions of their approval and correct me if I am wrong, Peter, the individual who was there as the owner of the property was not Toll Brothers and before anyone would vote on it, everyone was of the feeling that Toll Brothers had to be here to hear what their discussion was. I could tell you personally, I was of the opinion I didn’t need to hear from Toll Brothers and that I know enough about the situation and I was not going to vote for any further extensions. Personally, I don’t know how everyone else was going to vote, but there was significant discussion and I suggest that if you have an interest in it that you come to the next Planning Board meeting. The other issue which I addressed very briefly was with regard to the ordinance of indemnification of people who volunteer within the Town. I know that there is going to be some thought whether it should be done in public or private, but I can tell you that there are a number of Planning Board members who would like to be present to specifically address issues related to this, and I would hope that it would be done in public session on a general basis, and if there were issues that related to a specific piece of litigation that, that be held separately. That is the way I would hope if representing the Planning Board before Council, which is the way they would want it to be done.

Board of Adjustment Liaison Report

Mr. Perkins: I would just echo that right now Mr. President that we are waiting on the written report from the Board as far as their concerns with the indemnification also. So, how that falls, it will fall after the letter is received.

Master Plan Committee Report –NONE

Open Space Committee Report - NONE

Legislative Committee Report

Mr. Spino: I have no report at this time.

Pride Committee Liaison Report

Mr. Perkins: Nothing to report Mr. President
Board of Education Liaison Report

Mr. Rattner: Nothing to report.


Bob Elms, Smithtown Road, Budd Lake: Didn’t we in the past year hire a new engineer to work in the engineering department to replace Frank Dolan? If so, why isn’t he doing the inspections? Shouldn’t we be using this individual to reduce our costs to Schoor Depalma? It is my understanding that he is a licensed engineer.

President Guenther: He was called in to do that inspection precisely.

Mr. Elms: I understand that particular inspection he was called in to do. Isn’t there other things that we should be having him doing in order to reduce our costs from Schoor Depalma, which is expensive, isn’t it?

Mrs. Lashway: We don’t pay Schoor Depalma for those inspections. Those are charged to the Developer’s Escrow account.

Mr. Elms: The developer should be paying for those also, right.

President Guenther: That’s right.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I have two things. While I don’t think this needs to be a regular committee report, I believe a committee was formed to look at the cluster ordinance. I was just wondering if anybody could report on the progress of that effort.

Mr. Greenbaum: I could tell you that there was a committee that was formed and then it was discussed further and it was decided that it was appropriate for it to be reviewed at the Master Plan level which was done. The sub-committee was formed of the Master Plan to review tightening up the Cluster Ordinance aspects of tightening it up as opposed to removing it. I don’t know what has been done on that respect.

Mr. Bonte: So in other words, that should be addressed by members of the public at the Public Hearing at the Planning Board. Do you know when that hearing is?

Mayor Licitra: I think you could address your concerns at the Master Plan Committee. I don’t know when they are meeting again.

Mr. Bonte: I thought it was the end of September, or beginning of October. But I am not really sure. I’ll find out from the Planning Department.

Mr. Spino: That is exactly what was done, it was given to the Master Plan Committee at that level and there were two things decided, one was to try and make it stronger, and the other was what Dave mentioned, I cannot remember the exact terminology.

Mr. Bonte: My other question has to do with the proposed ordinance for the Hotel/Motel tax; I have two questions regarding that. On the second page under paragraph four, there is a discussion in paragraph B, C, & D regarding that the vendor shall not assume or absorb any tax imposed by this ordinance. I was wondering why?

Mr. King: I did not draw that ordinance, so I will bring that to John and ask him.

Mr. Bonte: I don’t know that we should care to be quite honest with you, as long as we get the money.

Mr. King: I think that this may be a form ordinance from the League of Municipalities.

Mr. Bonte: But is it a legal requirement or just something suggested? Many businesses as promotions say we will pay the sales tax, and if a hotel wants to do that, who cares? Especially if that encourages usage of the hotel, it means we collect more tax.

President Guenther: I agree with you. When I read that, I read the same thing. But apparently it is something with the State, maybe it is part of what they passed at the state level. I don’t know.
Mr. Bonte: It may be suggested, but it might not be a requirement. My other question, I don’t see it covered in this ordinance anywhere, how we are actually going to collect this tax? Are we going to audit the books, is there some type of form.

President Guenther: I talked with Jack Marchione, the Tax Collector. There is a mechanism at the State; it will be collected through the State Sales Tax Collection System. Then we get reimbursed by the State.

Mr. Bonte: Thank you.

President Guenther: You’re welcome. Anyone else from the Public? Seeing none, any final Council comments? Mayor, you have a comment.

Mayor Licitra: Usually I wait until everybody goes, I don’t think it is proper, because then I take everybody else’s thunder. There is one item really that I, for the first time thank god, had to attend a fireman’s funeral and I’ve had to do it twice in the last week. Both Joe Troop and Bill Wardell from Flanders, but it was really a very touching ceremony to say goodbye to one of our volunteers. Thank god like it said it is only the first one I had to do, first two actually. But it was a very touching, although very gut wrenching at times only because of the last call that they do and when they put the uniform on the fire truck and when they put the coffin on top of the fire truck, you go past the house, past the church. You go pick it up. It is a whole two hour ceremony that is done from early in the morning. But I would say, as gut wrenching as it is, as emotional as it is, I would suggest that next time Council people be involved in it because it is still a very nice ceremony. It is a way to say goodbye to somebody that has put a lot of time in. Joe was a fireman in Flanders for over 25 years; he retired from the Fire Department, but still lived in Flanders. Bill I could tell you millions of times that Bill was at accident scenes and what he has done for the Town, I could go on an on giving accolades; but we will miss the both of them and as I said, it was a very good ceremony, it was a very nice ceremony, a very touching ceremony. I do hope that next time we have some Council Members there. I am not saying that you weren’t there at this point, but I am saying that you should be there because I think you should see the ceremony if you haven’t seen it before or you haven’t been part of it before.

President Guenther: Mayor, I had received an email regarding Bill Wardell’s very sudden passing and I requested a schedule and I never received it. I would have very much liked to have been there. I did not know of Joe Troop’s passing until I happened to show up at the funeral home that night when they had the viewing because I was showing up for somebody else’s viewing. I was completely unaware of it. Don’t get me wrong, I am not blaming anybody, but maybe if we could just get a better flow of information.

Mayor Licitra: I should paraphrase my remarks, Bernie, by saying that I also could have invited you people, I am not saying that you didn’t show up, what I am saying is that you should show up to the next one just to see the ceremony.

President Guenther: I would be very much pleased to do that.


Mr. Perkins: Mr. President, I have a meeting set up for this Thursday at 3:00 pm along with our Township Attorney and Applied Wastewater Management to discuss the sewage treatment plans for the old Durham Woods project and I will report back the findings to everybody once I am done with them.

President Guenther: I just have one final comment. Rob, what night was that Planning Board meeting?

Mr. Greenbaum: The Planning Board meets the second and third Thursday of every month.

President Guenther: So it would be the 14th?

Mr. Greenbaum: I believe so.

Mayor Licitra: Don’t we have a different schedule in the summer, Rob?

Mr. Greenbaum: I will get the date that it is on for and email everyone and I will call Earl personally.


Motion to adjourn, all in favor, none opposed. The meeting adjourned at 10:20 pm.

Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on September 16, 2003

Mount Olive Township Clerk




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