Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
July 23, 2002


MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women fighting terrorism and defending the freedom we all enjoy


According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle and the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Guenther President Scapicchio
Absent: Mr. Spino

Also in attendance: Mayor Licitra, Cynthia Spencer, Business Administrator; John Dorsey, Township Attorney; Sherry Jenkins, CFO; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk.



Mayor Licitra: I have a couple of things. One thing, I was able to secure this from the Chief, as you can see this is our whole Police Force. Officer Abrusci thought up the idea, he did all the picture work himself. Each Policeman got a sponsor, they made 1500 of these and they are going to be giving them out to the children in Town so that Police are more identifiable. If you see the back of this, it has information on each one of the Police Officers. Where they came from, what schools they went to, where they live, etc, etc. I think it is a great idea. It just shows that our outreach program at the Police Department is just getting better between the Police on the bikes and the D.A.R. E. program, the MOMAC program and everything else that has to do with that. They are getting into the community more and the kids are getting to accept them. I think it is a great idea. We will see how the first 1500 go and we can get a lot more. Like I said they went out and got sponsors for these, so it is a great deal. I don't have anything else. Actually I do have one other thing to say. Whoever took the signage over at Flanders Crossing for the crosswalks. It's in somebody's bedroom in Town. We spent $400 a piece. Each one of those crosswalk signs cost $400 and one is missing now. We did order four so we have one in reserve which we will put up but the crosswalk sign is down which I guess we should expect that. I just hope the next one doesn't go down.


Mrs. Spencer: Basically the construction project is moving along and the project overall is if you recall at the last meeting I reported that they were approximately four weeks behind schedule. Now they have made up a little bit of time and they believe that they are about three weeks behind schedule. Permits should become available by the end of the week for the drilling to commence for the well. The tree and stump removal should be completed no later than this Friday, the compaction has been completed on the retaining walls and now the contractor is going to be required to treat the weed issue through an application of round up as part of the roto darien soil remediation efforts starting. Then he will also be required to follow up with pre-emergent herbicides in the Fall and Spring while the grass seed is rooting. The turf is stabilized and we did go ahead with a change in the specified sprinkler head to the irrigation system so that it would be compatible with the toro heads that we are using in Flanders Park so that tour maintenance people would be trained and they would be interchangeable and it would just make maintenance and any repairs easier to be effectuated.

President Scapicchio: Cindy, does that change involve any additional cost or credits?

Mrs. Spencer: I am not sure whether there will actually be a credit or not; it's minimal if anything but it's certainly not an increase. We did find out from the Soccer Committee that they expect to give the Township the remaining $50,000, hopefully the first week in October. We contacted Consolidated Building and they have agreed to hold their prices until that time on the restroom and facility. So we are moving ahead with that. We had been notified that the Police had received a complaint that the contractor had been starting work before the hours specified in our Noise Ordinance so we have made sure that the contractor is fully aware of the hours of operation and so he has agreed to comply. I think they were just becoming a little over eager to maximize their work days. But they understand that they can no longer do that. I guess basically the elevations have been set and the project is moving along.

Mr. Rattner: That is a good report. Are there any issues or anything that you are working on now, in other words road blocks or certain things that happen in any type of construction that has to be resolved?

Mayor Licitra: Do you know something Steve?

Mr. Rattner: No, but usually we don't find out until maybe a month after. I really don't.

Mrs. Spencer: There are always daily little things that come up that have to be resolved. There are still a couple of change order issues that the contractor is now waiting to get the signed off version from the engineers because of the fact that the contractor had been eager in the beginning to move ahead out of sequence and as a result often had to backtrack because the work had not been done.

Mr. Rattner: Once they get out of sequence we would not be responsible for paying any extra money.

Mrs. Spencer: And we are not. But what I am saying is, the only outstanding issues is that at this point in time, there are some elevations on two of the fields. I think the football field and one of the baseball fields. We had a meeting last Friday and that should be taken care of no later than this week.

Mr. Rattner: Is the elevation the difference of eight to twelve inches or something? Is that we are talking about where it is?

Mrs. Spencer: No, it's very close. They just want it in writing before they finalize it.

Mrs. Miller: Little red flags always go up when I hear the spraying of pesticides as a wildlife rehabilitator. I have had to handle a lot of birds that have died because people have sprayed weed killers. I had a blind robin for nine years because it was in a lawn when somebody was spraying weed killers. I would like to know what kind of chemicals we are going to be spraying on Turkey Brook Park, especially since we have had pesticide problems with it in the past. We had a great expense at remediating and I would like to know what those chemicals are before we spray them because if they are dangerous to our wildlife and I have a list of them and I believe I have given Administration a list, I want to know before it is sprayed.

Mrs. Spencer: Okay. I can tell you that the initial application of Round Up is what you have purchased for your own weed control.

Mrs. Miller: Most of the over the counter weed control that individual use are probably more harmful than the ones that are used on golf courses. So that is not a satisfactory answer.

President Scapicchio: Jim, do you want to speak to the issue?

Jim Lynch, Supervisor Recreation, Building, and Grounds: I think I could explain a little bit better the issue with the Round Up. What has been done is that it has been structured in our working agreement with Conte Construction. Round up will be applied. It will be applied by a license applicator in the State of New Jersey at Label rates that the manufacturer and the federal Government and the State of New Jersey agree are acceptable. It should have no impact than what a homeowner can do. I do agree those chemicals can be more dangerous in a homeowners hands. What will happen is that they will post fair warning. There is a reentry period once the property is sprayed and those guidelines will be noted to the public and we will follow every precaution that is suggested by the manufacturer of the round up problem. Once that process is complete, if you want we could make a notification to you of that, that we are done with that process and the reentry period is expired. I can compile a list of what might possibly be used. I will not know until next spring when the grass seed is in the ground and we have a stand of turf grass exactly what products. It depend on what weeds emerge. We can do recommendations. I have contacts with Rutgers University. I carry a pesticide license for the State of New Jersey. I would be more than happy to provide you what we plan on applying.

Mrs. Miller: I would still like a list because I still get information from the Citizens Clearing House of Hazardous Waste and they tell me that round up causes cancer in Children. Nine percent in boys and seven percent in girls. I get all sorts of hazardous waste information and I am not comfortable with spraying pesticides or herbicides at Turkey Brook Park. Especially with what we have been through. So I would definitely like a list.

Mr. Lynch: We can compile that for you and we can work to have that within the next few weeks.

Mr. Rattner: Obviously I am not smart enough to know which herbicides, insecticides and fertilizers are bad, however I believe we have an Ordinance from our Health Department that anybody commercial operator before

Mr. Rattner (cont'd): they start an operation they have to be registered. They have to give all the documentation to the Health Department and as long as you know, they will be looking it over, so besides having Mr. Lynch's knowledge, if they go and make sure that the rates of application have been approved, that gives us an extra confidence level. I just want to make sure that we obey our own orders and we make the applicator of whoever is going to do it get the same permit that we would if they were going to do BASF or somebody like that.

Mr. Lynch: I just want to let the Council know. I feel in my opinion, it is the most responsible course of action. This application of Round Up is necessary to insure proper establishment of our desire turf grass species that have been speced for the park. This will be done in a manor; a liquid application of Round Up by a licensed applicator with the proper equipment is much more safe than putting out a granular herbicide in the non-selective herbicide forms. By doing this in a liquid application, the plant will uptake the material and will not be in contact with the soil surface for any longer period of time than it takes to dry in the sun. A granular application relies on timed release and it is susceptible to wind to water and other natural elements that could force it to be washed across the park service and end up in a non-target area. We are researching the most effective manor and the most responsible manor to get the product down.

President Scapicchio: It appears to me, Charlene, that Jim has a level of knowledge and control.

Mrs. Miller: I have also handled birds that have had deformed beaks and deformed feet because they have gone into lawns that were sprayed with the liquid herbicide. I have seen it myself. If you think I am an alarmist. So be it. But I have seen it myself.

President Scapicchio: Thank you Jim.

Mr. Guenther: You mentioned that we are now three weeks behind schedule. How does that effect the seeding program for August?

Mrs. Spencer: Actually they believe they will meet their August time. The window for seeding is August 15, 2002 through October 15, 2002 and according to their schedule they will start seeding in August. What is happening with their schedule is that they will be postponing some of the paving so that they could put more resources on the seeding.

Mr. Guenther: I will have to say that I understand, I have had a discussion about this with Jim Lynch and I personally inspected the site when they took the trees down and stumps were still in the ground and I could see where a lot of the mature trees taken down were diseased. On the other hand I am very disconcerted driving by that site seeing the bare house there without anything in front and what I would like to suggest is that we find some money within the Turkey Brook Budget or maybe by what we are going to save from bulk mailings instead of sending things out first class mail, to find some mature trees larger trees to plant in front. After all the construction work is done and everything is in place, some kind of a buffer between the road and the house.

Mrs. Spencer: We actually have identified a fund I cannot remember the specific name of it offhand, but we have a fund where developers who are taking down trees have to contribute for every tree that is removed. We can use monies from that fund to, in fact, plant mature trees.

Mr. Guenther: What I am saying is no, don't get these little six foot pines that will take 30 years to grow to a decent height. I am saying spend a little bit more money. I understand they are expensive but they can be found already grown at 12, 15, 20 feet.

Mrs. Miller: I would like to add to Bernie's comments. We wouldn't allow a developer to not have a buffer between his project and residential homes and we have to make sure that we have a 25 ft. landscape buffer. I would like to see a variety of trees. Bernie wants to see mature trees; I would like to see a variety of trees. Trees that are more native to New Jersey.

Mrs. Spencer: Jim and I will work with Gene Buczynski and his group to make sure that we have a plan and we will bring it back.

Mrs. Miller: I don't want to see all White Pines.

Mr. Scapicchio: Charlene, would you like to see a plan before we move forward?

Mrs. Miller: I think that would be nice.

Mrs. Spencer: Not a problem.

President Scapicchio: I spoke with Gene Buczynski today and I scheduled a walking tour of Turkey Brook Park for Tuesday July 30, 2002 at 5:00 pm. If there are those that would like to participate and aren't available we could maybe try to change a day or time to accommodate everyone. The Mayor say's he is going to be there.

Mrs. Spencer: We are having some difficulties keeping the site closed. We had an incident the other day where people came on site with trucks and kayaks.

President Scapicchio: That was me. That was my tour and after the tour I stopped and talked to the supervisor of that project.

Mrs. Spencer: I hope you stayed on the roadway and didn't drive across any of the re-graded fields.

President Scapicchio: I did not drive across any fields. If that is what he told you, he was telling you.

Mrs. Spencer: I was kidding.

President Scapicchio: I stayed on the roads and I specifically went there to see where all of our tax dollars were going and how they were being spent. I just happen to stop there before I met Bernie because Bernie also has a Kayak. Actually I think, all kidding aside I think that we should all on this Council, every couple of weeks take a tour of that park to be able to see the progress first hand. It is a big project, there is a lot of money, and I think that the more interest that contractor sees I think the better you will see that product.

Mrs. Miller: I like those aerial photos. I would like to see more of them.

President Scapicchio: You have to pay for those Charlene. I think the walking tours every couple of weeks are probably a real good idea.



April 9, 2002 Present: Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Guenther (8:45)
Mr. Rattner, President Scapicchio, Mr. Spino
Absent: Ray Perkins

April 30, 2002 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio
Absent: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Perkins

May 14, 2002 Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum Mr. Perkins, Ms. Miller,
Mr. Guenther, President Scapicchio
Absent: Mr. Spino

June 25, 2002 Present: Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Guenther
Mr. Rattner, President Scapicchio
Absent: Ray Perkins, Mr. Spino

July 9, 2002 CS Present: Mr. Guenther, Mrs. Miller, President Scapicchio, Mr. Rattner,
Mr. Greenbaum
Absent: Mr. Perkins, Mr. Spino

Mrs. Miller moved for approval of the minutes and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously with the exception of Mr. Rattner who yes on all except April 30, 2002 Mr. Perkins voted yes on May 14, 2002 and abstained on the rest.


Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Municipalities

1. Resolution received July 10, 2002, from the Borough of Mt. Arlington regarding the Urging of the Governor not to withdraw or reduce funds from the Emergency Medical Technician Fund.

2. Ordinance received July 11, 2002, from the Township of Chester regarding Land Use.

3. Resolution received July 15, 2002, from Rockaway Township regarding Overcrowding Housing Violations.

4. Resolution received July 15, 2002, from the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders regarding the Pledge of Allegiance being unconstitutional.

5. Letter received July 17, 2002, from the Township of Long Hill regarding Assembly Bill A-273 which would decrease polling hours for certain Elections by changing the time for polling place hours to begin at 7:00am rather than 6:00am.

6. Three Ordinances received July 18, 2002, from Washington Township regarding Land Use.

League of Municipalities

7. Letter received July 11, 2002, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Executive Order No. 21.

8. Legislative Bulletin received July 15, 2002, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Bills that were enacted as Public Laws of 2002.

DOT / DEP / Permit's / LOI's

9. Letter received July 8, 2002, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Preliminary Engineering Report Dam Safety Compliance Schedule, Mine Hill Reservoir Dam / NJDEP Dam File No. 24-23.

10. Letter received July 11, 2002, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Morris County Compost Facility - Mt. Olive Facility ID# 1427001115 Recycling Center General Approval modification.

11. Letter received July 15, 2002, from Gregory Pssas, P.E., P.P regarding Sewer Extension Application, Woodfield at Mount Olive Sections IIB

12. Letter received July 15, 2002, from the State of New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection regarding 30 - Day Extension Letter File No. 1427-02-0005.1FHA020001 / Applicant: Gen III Builders, Block 7801, Lot 41 (Vacant Land - 97 acres , Mount Olive Road)

13. Letter received July 17, 2002, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Freshwater Wetlands Transition Area Exemption Application. Applicant: Harriet Nucci Block 3305, Lot 29, (Intersection of Spring and Center Streets)

14. Letter received July 19, 2002, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Letter of Interpretation - Delineation under one acre. Applicant: Gary Forgey/Douglas Lessig Block 3305; Lot 28 (51 Center Street)

Correspondence from Legislative Representatives

15. E-mail received July 11, 2002, from Congressman Frelinghuysen's regarding Newsletter on Meeting Residents, Homeland Security, corporate Criminals, Crossroads of the American Revolution National Heritage Area.

16. E-mail received July 19, 2002, from Congressman Frelinghuysen's office regarding Concerns of Residents, House Floor, Highlands Preservation Bill, and corporate responsibility.


17. Tort Claim received July 8, 2002, from the Superior Court of New Jersey Regarding Tomas Greenberger and West 125th Street Associates against Citicorp Vendor Finance, Inc.

18. Notice received July 10, 2002, from Mount Olive Township Planning Board regarding a Public Hearing on Application No. 02-28 pertaining to Land Use on Block 4400, Lot 12 (Nelson, 75 Flanders Road)

19. Explanation of Tax Rates for Mount Olive Township received July 15, 2002, from the Morris County Board of Taxation.

President Scapicchio stated that we had 19 pieces of correspondence on the agenda and asked if Council had any comments on same?




Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer's Agreement Between the Township and Circle Builders Co., Inc. (formerly known as Geralyn Palumbo)

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer's Agreement Between the Township and Toll Brothers, LLC Morris Hunt Phase II.

3. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive Reducing the Performance Guarantees of Pierson Realty, LLC

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Closure of Johnson Avenue. - amended

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Closing River Road Between Flanders-Drakstown Road and Drakestown Road Between July 24, 2002 and July 31, 2002.
Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Purchase of Two Vehicles for the Department of Public Works - On for 8/6/02 meeting when capital ordinances are adopted


President Scapicchio: This brings us to the Consent Resolutions Agenda

Mr. Guenther: You took No. 2 off right?

President Scapicchio: No. 2 is off. No. 4 is amended and No. 6 is off.

Mrs. Lashway: No. 5 is being amended.

President Scapicchio: Okay we are going to have someone move Resolution No. 1, No. 3, No. 4 as amended, No. 5 is being amended to require a five day notice before closure, No. 6 six removed.

Mr. Guenther: How is No. 4 amended? It is amended subject to the opening of?

President Scapicchio: No. 4 was amended when you got here tonight Bernie.

Mr. Guenther: Authorizing the closing of Johnson Ave?

Mrs. Lashway: And the only amendment was it was written that the DPW was doing the work, it's not it was the developer. That was the only change that was made to the Johnson Ave. closure.

Mr. Rattner: We still want to have the signs and there was the issue that according to the Resolution the people will have another road.

President Scapicchio: During the previous Workshop we instructed Cindy to take care of that.

Mr. Guenther: To take care of what? To do what?

President Scapicchio: To make sure that road was open and usable before Johnson was closed.

Mr. Guenther: Well that's that I meant, isn't that the amendment?

Mrs. Miller: It says Wildwood.

President Scapicchio: If that is what you want it to say Bernie, I don't have a problem with that.

Mr. Guenther: I am just trying to make sure to see where you're going to…

President Scapicchio: Read it, because it says it in there. It is down at the end. Is that satisfactory Bernie?

Mr. Guenther: I guess that covers it. Okay.

President Scapicchio: Cindy you will make sure that road is accessible before they close Johnson?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.

Mr. Greenbaum moved Resolutions No. 1, No. 3 and No. 4 and 5 as amended. Mr. Guenther seconded the motion. Any public comment on the Consent Resolution Agenda? Seeing none we will close the public portion. Council comments?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


1. Bill List.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of the Bill List. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion,

President Scapicchio: Council discussion?

Mr. Rattner: I think this is just for the Council members that are on Turkey Brook Committee, I noticed we are paying a substantial amount to Conti Construction, which has been reviewed by the committee, we think that was justified because I think it is $1.4 million. Bernie, do you recall that being discussed?

Mr. Guenther: I haven't been to any committee meetings. I could tell you that it was for the rock removal that had already been approved and then there was a portion. They have completed over 50% of the project and it was reviewed by Olympus, by Gene Buczynski and myself and the work has been completed for what they had put in the payments for.

President Scapicchio: Has Olympus and Buczynski signed off and authorized payment?

Mrs. Spencer: Absolutely.

Mr. Guenther: Does this take care of all the rock removal or is there still additional billing for the rock removal?

Mrs. Spencer: No. The rock removal is fully paid for.

President Scapicchio: There is still additional rock removal to be done though.

Mrs. Spencer: But we will not receive a bill for it.

Mr. Dorsey: Is that true in terms of sewer trenches?

President Scapicchio: That is why I am bringing that up.

Mrs. Spencer: We made an agreement with the contractor that if we agree to that amount then, in fact, any additional rock removal will be at his cost.

President Scapicchio: I am not disputing the amount. The question I have is; we are paying them in advance for of completion of rock excavation according to John, the Super's, comments to me on Monday night. I said "how are you making out with rock excavation?" He say's "we are almost done, we are not there yet, we have more blasting and they are waiting for the blaster to come back." So as of Monday, yesterday, all of the rock excavation is not completed.

Mrs. Spencer: I understand what you are saying and I am quite sure that John, since he is only on the job for two weeks is not aware of what the agreement was for the rock removal.

President Scapicchio: I am not disputing the agreement. The question I have is; is it appropriate to pay him in advance for the completion of rock excavation. That is the question, not whether we have an agreement. We do have an agreement.

Mrs. Spencer: We believe that it was applicable because of the amount of rock that had been removed vs. what was left and what we had agreed to. I understand what your question is.

President Scapicchio: Is there additional rock removal to be done? Is it all completed?

Mrs. Spencer: It is not 100% complete.

President Scapicchio: Are we paying them 100% of the rock removal agreement?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes. At the discounted rate.

President Scapicchio: But it was not discounted because we were going to pay them in advance. Right?

Mrs. Spencer: Correct.

President Scapicchio: So that is the question. Is it appropriate and we are dancing around it. Is it appropriate to pay him in advance of completion? Now if you were to say, 80% of the rock excavation is complete, we authorize 80% of the money to be released, I could accept that. But I can't accept the argument that they are not done but we are going to release the money. That is how we get ourselves caught. Lets keep him motivated. Why should we pay him in advance of completion? Does anybody have any concerns with respect to that?

Mr. Guenther: You have a very good point. The other question I would have then, if, in fact, there is some additional rock excavation, why do we have our two engineers authorizing the release of the payment prior to completion?

Mr. Rattner: I was going to ask just in total, we know we have an amended contract with Conti of what about $5 million? How much have we paid him up until now and what do we say the percentage of completion is at this point. It should be on the voucher right?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.

Mr. Rattner: So, what is the total amount of the contract as amended with the change order and how much have we paid them? If you could look that up, I just want to get a feeling and then we need an estimate of how much work in total is done. I just want to make sure in total, I am not concerned if we get ahead of one or the other, but I don't want to get ahead in total.

Mrs. Spencer: I understand what you're saying with the rock. I do understand that point. But in terms of the other payments he is probably 20% behind in his billings from completed work on the rest of the project with the exception of the rock.

President Scapicchio: What do you base that on, though, Cindy?

Mayor Licitra: Why don't we do this Dave, it would be easier if we just take it off the Bill List and we'll get you the information that you are going to require and Cindy is going to be able to look for it tonight. So we will take it off the Bill List and we will put it on the next Bill List with an explanation.

President Scapicchio: What page is that on?

Mr. Rattner: Page 4.

President Scapicchio: I would also like an answer as to why we have two Engineers authorizing the release of funds. I agree with you.

Mayor Licitra: I agree with you. I can't disagree with that.

President Scapicchio: It is not you or Cindy. Maybe we should have that stuff in writing from now on from them if we don't already. Okay, so we are going to move on the amended Bill List. We have a motion to approve.

Mr. Greenbaum moved the amended the motion to move the Bill List and Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

2. Approval of Peddler's Permits for Randy Banther and Edgar Garcia for Mobile Food Vending.

Mr. Perkins moved for approval of the above listed Peddler's Permits and Mr. Guenther seconded the motion.

Mr. Rattner: I have one question I am a little confused. All the paperwork is in order except for the fact that Mr. Banther, I don't know what he is peddling. Is he going to be going door to door selling furniture. If we could just have that on there, it has his employer. A catering truck I understand, magazines you understand. North Carolina Furniture I don't.

Mr. Guenther: I guess it is probably a fault of the form, it really doesn't require you to state that. What is the nature of their activity?

Mr. Rattner: I will vote for it, lets just in the future lets get it on there.


Planning Board

Mr. Greenbaum: Planning board has not met. We went to one meeting a month in the summer partly due to the leaving of Chuck. The only other issue which recently came up with regard to Planning Board was that the Appellate Division decision in Hashemi which is now coming back to a very limited group of members of Planning Board who weren't involved in the original decision I think there are five of us who were not involved originally who are going to be, I assume, hearing the Hashemi application in the month of August.

Library Board Liaison Report

Mrs. Miller: The Library Board has met and they have adopted some directives that they are going to give the construction people on the bids. I thought I would go over those so Steve could hear them, they will make it official eventually. One of the alternate things that they are going to do is deduct or reduce the basement by 2500 feet. Second, to deduct or eliminate the finished course paving of all driveways and parking lots. The third alternative would be to add to the complete landscaping plan as indicated on the contract documents. To complete only basic restoration of site and splitrail fence details to be eliminated from the plan if they increase the current landscaping budget. Number four, they are going to add to the complete future drop off at the front of the building as indicated on the site plan. Number five they are going to request that the remaining arcade section be included in the building plan. They also approved a rear building stone removal. They also approved Sketch A as submitted by Goodland and Clearwater for rear loading area, so they are trying to eliminate some of the costs. Kind of a pick and choose type of bidding process. That is all I have right now.

President Scapicchio: Thanks Charlene.

Recreation Report / Legislative Committee

Mr. Guenther: There is really nothing to report, there has been no meeting for the summer. Secondly the Legislative committee which has been kind of dormant, we are waiting for time for the new Administration in Trenton to get settled. But we have to re-establish contact with them regarding traffic issues on Route 206 & 46. I noticed the other day there was a very serious accident entering the Trade Zone. That corner continues to be a problem. There were certain improvements, that one meeting we did have with our Legislators at that time there were certain things they were going to do on Rt. 206. Some of them had been done, but not all of them.

Mr. Guenther (cont'd): So I think we sort of have to pick up the ball. Some of the same players that were involved in our first meeting might not be around in Trenton anymore. I'll be contacting Guy Gregg's office to see how we can pick up on that again and try to pick the communication with the Department of Transportation.

President Scapicchio: Thanks, Bernie and I have no report. That brings us to the last Public Comment Period.


Dave Jones, Budd Lake: Just out of curiosity, is there any pest or insect problem up at Turkey Brook Park right now? Do we foresee one in the future?

President Scapicchio: Insect problem?

Mr. Jones: Yes, because they are going to spray.

President Scapicchio: Jim, there is no insect problem, right?

Mr. Lynch: Insects no, we need an herbicide treatment. There is a weed condition.

Mr. Jones: So there is a weed situation right now.

Mr. Lynch: Yes. It is a common situation once you expose topsoil. The topsoil on the site when it was moved by Voller's exposed new earth. By removing the soil and stockpiling it in the rear, once it is transplanted on to the fields by Conti Construction, it is a very fertile seed bed, the area was a farm. There are a lot of weeds. Once they produce their seed head it falls into the soil and they grow. We have to eliminate that to get a stand of turf grass that is pure.

Mr. Jones: Why did you remove all of the trees in the first place in the buffer zone? I know some were rotted but not all of them were rotted.

Mr. Guenther: I mentioned that to you and preceding my comments Dave, I personally went there after the trees had been removed and the stumps are still on the ground. I question the fact that a lot of small trees were taken down. That I do question, but the large ones, you can see that they were seriously rotted out in the middle, which is exactly what Jim had explained to me in the first place as to why they all had to come down. They're might have been one or two that weren't quite as diseased as the others, but it was really quite widespread.

Mr. Jones: Do the developers in Trade Zone South plan on putting up any lights? It seems really dangerous at night.

President Scapicchio: Dave, we brought that issue up and the Planning Board did not require them to install any kind of street lighting other than what you see. Mr. Buczynski has told us that he believes the lighting situation will get better once some of those stores on the outside of the main development are built. The answer to your question is the Planning Board did not require it.

Mayor Licitra: Previous Planning Board.

Mr. Jones: Is it going to be brought up at all?

President Scapicchio: I think the only thing this Council could do is the only time they come before us requesting some sort of relief, we can then try to get them to do something to help that situation out.

Mr. Jones: As far as the situation on Route 46, is that a State matter?

Mr. Guenther: I believe so. We did discuss at the last meeting that Gene Buczynski attended and he was going to contact the State about that. But I would still like to take it up from a legislator's level as well to see if we apply some pressure there because it is really bad and there are constantly people going west. They are clogging up traffic especially at rush hour trying to take a left turn out of what is supposed to be the true traffic lanes and they won't move until the light changes. It has to change several times, it goes in sequence all around before it changes, so they cause hazardous conditions.

Mr. Jones: Thank you.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the public?

Tom Casserly, Budd Lake: Just to add to what Dave just said, we are talking about people trying to make left hand turns, what about the people making left hand turns into Perkins. Originally when they put that there and everyone was supposed to go in a the traffic light near what was then the A & P, and they had a billboard sign there that was probably 35 x 20 feet. That got wiped out in an accident one time and said all turns for Perkins come to the traffic light. That got wiped out and has never been replaced. There is a sign about this big there and it says no left turn. Everyday I see somebody turn in there.

Mr. Guenther: I have brought it up several times even before because with the small sign it is placed in the wrong position, it is to far off the road, and I brought it up to Chuck McGroarty's attention several times. He is going to check the original approvals to see what was required to put in there. But I definitely think it is deficient. When you are coming east on 46 for the left hand turn, to be able to make a left hand turn into the Village Green which some people still do, but at least there are two or three signs up there that can catch people. There are just not enough there and it causes the same kind of situation. You are absolutely right.

Mr. Casserly: Well that is not really why I came. The reason that I came first was a letter that I received a couple of weeks ago with my estimated tax bill. I would have been here two weeks ago for the fireworks but I thought it was just a Workshop Meeting not a Public Meeting. I talked to Nick Parisi who I guess is the head of the Tax Department here and I question him whether or not the 7.5% that it talks about in here, reduction was going to be spread over all taxpayers in the Town. I was assured by him that was not the case. Myself with no sewer and no NYC water, my taxes are going up, so I take exception sent to me from the Mayor patting himself and all of you on the back telling me how well they have done making the taxes go down for me. He made some kind of statement I read in the newspaper that he thought Colleen Labow would be here. Her expected her to be here. I don't know if he expected me to be here or not but I am sure that there are a lot of other people in Town that you would not expect to be here. I have spoken to a lot of people that are disheartened at a letter that comes out that as far as I am concerned is a lie. I get less services than most. I live on Lozier Rd. There are no street lights, no gas, no water no sewer. I have garbage collection once a week, it used to be twice a week here in the Town. I am wondering if there is some hidden compensation for me that I am not reading here in this letter maybe? Or is this just toilet paper for me to use my well water and flush into my septic system. Mr. Mayor, if you have any comment I would like to know.

Mayor Licitra: I am sorry that letter confused you. A mistake was made in the letter. We are trying to get the tax bills out as soon as we could. It will be corrected and a letter has been drafted already and be sent to the people that it affected. We did make a mistake and as far as we are concerned we will admit our mistake and go on from there.

Mr. Casserly: Okay, now for your second mistake in my eyes. I have a letter here in my hand, I don't know if this has been brought up at all or not recently but the Mayor on June 13, 2002 decided to send a letter to the residents of Flanders, Flanders Crossings and old Flanders. Not Mt. Olive residents. Requests for citizen input, in short it speaks that he has great pleasure in going to Flanders Park and seeing that it is enjoyed by our citizens. He has also sent a survey, wanted to know from people in Flanders if they would like a shaded pavilion area, picnic tables, barbeque grills, horseshoe pits. This has totally blown me away. Are we not part of this? Can I not use that park over there?

Mayor Licitra: Yes, you could.

Mr. Casserly: It says, I'd like to ask that you spend five minutes completing the attached survey. I would like to plan the future of this park with your input. What about the input of the people of Budd Lake? I am very upset about this. It goes on to say that they won't have the money until maybe 2003 until they could successfully negotiate with possibly the developer. Will they have to build, do it three or four times like they had to do the baseball field down there? I cannot believe that you can send a letter in Mt. Olive. You are the Mayor of Mt. Olive, you are not the Mayor of Flanders. This I am very upset about.

Mayor Licitra: It is people like you that really polarize this Town.

Mr. Casserly: Polarize this Town. You send a letter to half the people in the Town.

Mayor Licitra: Let me finish, okay. Our goal is to make pocket parks in this Town.

Mr. Casserly: From what I understand, Lou Nelson Park is to be closed and Tulip Park is to be closed too. That's what I understand. That's the only two parks in Budd Lake.

Mayor Licitra: Did I let you speak? Now are you going to let me speak? Our goal is to make pocket parks. That is one I consider a pocket park for Flanders. We are already working on one in Bennington Woods and Country Oaks. We are working on the ones in Budd Lake and at that time I was sending out to the residents that use that park as far as on a daily basis and get their input on exactly what they want because they are the ones using it the most of the time. Listen, I can't do everything that you expect me to do right. I am reaching out to the people. I got a lot of good responses from their letters.

Mr. Casserly: From people in Flanders?

Mayor Licitra: From people all over Town.

Mr. Casserly: They are the only people that could respond to it because it was not sent to anyone in Budd Lake.

Mayor Licitra: People all over Town, Okay? If you don't like the job we are doing, I am reaching out.

Mr. Casserly: How? How could someone in Budd Lake respond to this letter if it was not mailed to them?

Mayor Licitra: I don't think so. I think people…

Mr. Casserly: You wrote it! It says it is to the people of Flanders, Flanders Crossing and Old Flanders.

Mayor Licitra: They are the people that are using that park on a regular basis. As will be the people in Bennington Woods, as the people will be in Country Oaks, as the people will be in different parts…I am the identifying the different areas to build pocket parks. If the letter offends you, then I am very very sorry. I am Mayor of Mt. Olive. When I put up the pavilion or when we do something in Budd Lake and I want to get the public input, I will get in touch with the people in Budd Lake, I'll get in touch with the people in Flanders. I am trying to do the best I could. I am trying to get input from people.

Mr. Casserly: When you have a parade for the Town, the people in Flanders come, right?

Mayor Licitra: We won't agree on this as far as I am concerned.

Mr. Casserly: No, we won't agree on this. You are correct. We will not agree on this. You used the word polarization. To me sending a letter to part of the people in the Municipality is polarization.

Mayor Licitra: The people that use the park on a daily basis.

Mr. Casserly: Now my next question is this, I heard that Tulip Park is to be closed and Lou Nelson Park is to be closed.

Mayor Licitra: That is the first I heard of it.

Mr. Casserly: That is the first you heard of it? The way I understand it is that they are saying now that they do not have money to maintain these parks and they are to be closed.

Mayor Licitra: That is the first I hear of it. You are telling me. I will check on it and let you know.

Mr. Casserly: Thank you.

Mrs. Miller: I have a question, Mayor. Did I hear you correctly that you said that we are working on tot lot at Country Oaks and Bennington Woods?

Mayor Licitra: No. I did not say a tot lot, I said we are looking at a common area, but right now in Bennington we are looking at a common area to put a Gazebo up over there in conjunction with the people and a Gazebo.

Mrs. Miller: My question is a concern because I distinctly remember those developers giving us money towards Turkey Brook Park so that they did not have to provide these open space accommodations to the residents and now we are going to use tax payer's dollars to put parks in those that the developer's…

Mayor Licitra: I did not say we are using tax dollars Charlene.

Mrs. Miller: Well I would like to learn more about his please.

Mayor Licitra: Okay, we will. When we get involved in it I will. But we have already done some research on it and people want to feel camaraderie in their own neighborhoods. They want to feel some neighborhood participation and we are trying to give them a place to congregate, a place to have their children congregate, they don't have to get into a car to go someplace, that's the goal.

Mrs. Miller: I realize what you're saying, but I distinctly remember the Bennington Woods people giving back money because they did not want to park there. I am just a little confused that now all of the sudden we've got this new interest that was decided against just a few years ago at the Planning Board level and now it seems like a few years later we are redoing what the developer should have done in the first place. I just have a problem with that.

Mr. Guenther: I sort of concur with what Charlene says. My recollection is more about Country Oaks and there was a specific contribution made in liea of them putting in tot lots and other things. But there are common areas there that are being maintained by their homeowners association. When we do these developer's agreements, we have them dedicate space, that is usually intended for some sort of use like that. I kind of agree, why should we be using taxpayer's money for that now?

Mayor Licitra: Bernie, I did not say we were using Tax Payer's money, okay?

Mr. Guenther: If you are talking about pocket parks, I believe there are neighborhoods, they happen to be in Budd Lake, but if you wanted to create that kind of camaraderie in certain neighborhoods, established neighborhoods that have been around this Town for 40 years, I think those are the neighborhoods you should first concentrate on.

Mayor Licitra: Bernie, I am not concentrating on any neighborhood Bernie. I am just approaching each one of these different Homeowner's associations and then I am going to put a plan together. From there we are going to get people interested either the Homeowner's Associations or maybe a developer interested. You forget, that is where we got some of our money for the playground equipment in Flanders Crossing. A developer came forward and said he wanted to give us x amount of dollars for every house that he put up, the one in Flanders. That's where we got some of the money. I am no going to deny it. I think it is a positive step I think it is an excellent step for each one of the neighborhoods. I think we are getting more and more people in that don't want to get into their cars and go into different places and some areas, like people in Bennington Woods, they already have playground equipment and Tinc Road, they may not want playground equipment over there. What they would like is an area that they could possibly congregate, a flag pole, a gazebo, maybe some benches and things like that. So each neighborhood would probably want something different. It is something that we took on to try and bring neighborhoods together. Any place I go in the Township, they are telling me that that's what they want. I may be wrong, and maybe they are telling me the wrong things but I am going to tell you something; you go down to Flanders Crossing at any time and look at that tot lot, it is used all the time whether it be from 9:00 am to 9:00 at night.

Mr. Greenbaum: I just wanted to comment on your comments and let me start by saying the letter, with regard to the taxes, I would not have sent. But the Mayor wrote the letter and he wrote it the way he thought it should be written, so be it. It's out there. I think the important thing here is that we all worked very hard and those that were involved in the process would agree; that we all worked very hard to get taxes down as low as we thought we could leaving that aside. The second letter with regard to Flanders Park, I got the letter because I live in Flanders Crossing. I never even gave it a thought until you raised the issue here tonight. From sitting here and being involved for the last couple of years I could tell you that the Mayor and I am not always his greatest supporter, but I can tell you that the Mayor is the Mayor for Mt. Olive. He is not just the Mayor from Flanders. He has always looked out for the best interest of the entire Town as best as he could. Perhaps he made a mistake or he focused on an issue which he did not think about how others might see this letter, but I could tell you that my impression is that his actions were designed to benefit the entire Town and I believe him when he says that his impetus for sending the letter was that he just figured that these are the people who are using the park the most. That is my thought on the subject. Whether it is right or wrong, it does not make any difference to me in terms of, I believe that his impetus is as always his impetus to benefit Mt. Olive as a whole.

Mr. Casserly: All right, Rob. I could give you some pom poms and megaphone and cheer on the Mayor. Have you ever been to Lou Nelson Park? Have you ever stepped foot in Tulip Park?

Mr. Greenbaum: Yes I have. I play basketball at Lou Nelson park with Charlie Russell and the rest of the Russells and all of the over 39 crowd.

Mr. Casserly: Have you been to Tulip Park?

Mr. Greenbaum: I have never been to Tulip Park.

Mr. Casserly: Can you explain to me why we should be trying to decide by 2003 were going to come up with more money for Flanders Park that is a new park compared to two parks here in Budd Lake that have not been upgraded, retrofitted anything we have a dirt parking lot at Tulip park. Lou Nelson Park, I have been living here 20 years I can' t believe anything has ever been done.

Mr. Greenbaum: I can't tell you. Know one has come to me and said we want to spend money or we want to do this. Other than a survey going out saying what other needs are in this park and perhaps the Mayor should have sent out a survey with regard to Lou Nelson Park with regard saying what can we do with regard to Lew Nelson Park and Tulip Park to improve it.

Mr. Casserly: Your going about it the wrong way. You are going to a park that is the newest one instead of the one that is the oldest one.

Mayor Licitra: First of all I did not say that we were going to do this in 2003. I said if we could afford it we are going to do this. Either that or we work out an arrangement with the developer. The developer's do come up before the Planning Board and they do say could I help you? Could I give some money to the Recreation Department. Could I give some money here, and we would do it that way. If you took my intention as bidding Flanders against Budd Lake, then I am very sorry that you took it that way. That's fine, that is your opinion.

Mr. Casserly: Flanders Park which is the newest park in the Municipality, correct?

Mayor Licitra: Yes.

Mr. Casserly: Why should that one be the next one up to get some more upgrades?

Mayor Licitra: I did not say that was going to be the next one.

Mr. Casserly: Well, I did not get a letter saying by 2003 they are going to…

Mayor Licitra: I thought we just agreed that I said that if we had the money for 2003 and now you are telling me we are doing it by 2003.

Mr. Casserly: What the letter says is hopefully we have the money by 2003.

Mr. Greenbaum: Your point is well made. It is not the Mayor who decides to spend the money.

Mr. Casserly: He is the one that signs the letter.

Mr. Greenbaum: But it comes to Council and I think you have made your point with regard to the entirety of the Town, the need for additional services in the other Parks which are currently being used and I am sure it will be a consideration of everyone that is sitting up here. I think you made a very valid point.

Mr. Casserly: As far as the Mayor saying that he had never heard anything about Lou Nelson Park or Tulip Park being closed, I believe that it was in the newspaper as a budget cut.

Mr. Greenbaum: No. I have never heard that. It was never considered as a budget cut. I don't know specifically where that may have come from. If you are going to cut additional monies out of the Budget which was never really a consideration that's the only place I could think of it and I don't think there is a member on Council who would agree to close down an existing park in Town. So I don't think there was ever really a thought that was ever going to happen and certainly I would never vote for something like that and don't think anybody would.

Mr. Guenther: With all do respect to the reporter that is sitting in the audience, we all know that we can't take at face value what's reported if you are talking about the Mt. Olive Chronicle. I would not use that as evidence that's what is going to happen. One more point; for years we have talked about the Simsbury Property, that was donated by the original developer what is now the Oak Hill I & II development. This at least goes back 14 or 15 years and that's a property that is up in the upper reaches up there of Budd Lake that should have some high priority. I just want to bring it up in relation to what's coming out here now. It is something we should all keep in the back of our minds next year when the Budget is prepared. That's an area that could start to be developed for that section of Town, the way Flanders Park has been for Flanders.

Jim Lynch, Supervisor of Parks, Buildings and Grounds: I think I can help clarify some of the points and some of the displeasure with the letter that was mailed. The park at Flanders Park, there was a target audience I believe. You always try to target the heaviest users of the park. It was not done in my opinion to close the Budd Lake residents out. I am a resident of Budd Lake. I grew up in Budd Lake and in Flanders with a move in the mid 80's. Both Budd Lake and Flanders; there is a long history in this Town of polarization between the two sides of Town. We have older parks in Town. Flanders Park and Turkey Brook are our newest facilities, I have begun to put together a plan to try and finish Flanders Park would be prudent as the newest facility so we are not in the process of trying to replace equipment. We finish it within the first five to seven years of it's life span, that equipment will age over a period of time where we won't be in a deficient situation where we were before Flanders Park was constructed. We were left with Lew Nelson Park, Tulip Park came in, and Lyons Park were our primary facilities. Lyons park is over 35 years old if I am correct. Lou Nelson Park is well over 30 years old. We are working to update those facilities. I am trying to budget for that currently. I know those facilities have been somewhat neglected in the past. Tulip Park we have a problem, we put in new equipment prior to me coming on board with the Township. There are people who are abusing that facility with quads and dirt bikes. We are trying to police the facility, we are trying to maintain it. I will be honest, we are fighting an uphill battle right now. It is very hard to eliminate. Every time we go in there and wipe out graffiti, replace some of the barriers for the sand around some of the play stations, within a week to two, it is ripped up and our police force does a wonderful job, but they can't be expected to catch people every time. If we look to complete Flanders Park, Turkey Brook will be coming on line, we can work for maybe the Simbury track, we could develop parks for both sides of Town that could be used by everyone in Town. I think that is what we are really trying to get at here. I know I am trying to develop a plan that is going to have both sides of one Township in mind. So, I am sorry if there were hard feelings. I saw the letter that was sent, I know as a resident of Budd Lake, I could say I understand where you are coming from. We as a Township and I as a Supervisor of Parks, Buildings, and Grounds are trying to get better amenities for the people and for the citizens and still work with the Administration with Council to do it in a sensible way. I understand, give the Mayor and Council a chance, we will make the Township work and we will get to the older facilities on that side of Town.

Mr. Greenbaum: Personally, I rather see nothing else go in Flanders Park. There is plenty of stuff in there, it is plenty busy, there is no reason to put anything else in there as far as I am concerned. At a minimum I would like to see the basketball courts at Lou Nelson be fixed up because it is ridiculous and it gets heavy play there. I have been to Tulip Park I just did not know it was called Tulip Park. Mr. Weiss and I ride our bikes through there all the time. I thought I was excellent to have that jungle gym in that facility. I would love to see that get fixed up also. As far as I am concerned I would not spend another dime at Flanders Park. So even thought the Mayor is looking for suggestions it does not mean that is going to happen. That is my position.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else?

Toni Ayers, 203 Sandshore Road Budd Lake: Lew Nelson was on my list too but I can cross that off because I think that has been adequately covered and I could only agree with…I was offended when I found out too. Okay we have been through that. Turkey Brook, I have been down there a couple of times looking things over and went all the way down to the pond which is being silted in case you did not notice. My question is, I did not realize…With the original land with you looked from the road it was level, you could look across those fields and it was practically all level. When you get down in the back, there is like a 30 or 40 foot drop off where that new dirt ends and original land continues. Why was all that dirt brought in? Why couldn't the topography remain the same, and sod it, and play ball. Without the additional dirt we would not of had to have a detention basin. So could somebody explain to me, I know the engineer is not here tonight, why was all that dirt brought in to build that up so high, to me it seems totally unnecessary?

Mayor Licitra: Toni, Turkey Brook Park was never flat.

Mrs. Ayers: Pretty level. When you looked from the road, it went up a little bit and down, but know where near what it is now. Down and back, I don't know if they are stopping at that point. It is like a this cliff.

Mayor Licitra: It was never flat. It always went down towards the pond. Charlene you used to walk that all the time.

Mrs. Miller: I have to agree with Toni, there is a huge increase. There is a huge hill there and now we are putting up retaining walls which I have asked for information regarding these retaining walls and have not gotten it yet. I was down at Meir's Pond recently too, the weekend before last. It appears that they have really widened the road down there and they have a big turn around because I believe that they are talking their trucks down there and taking water from Meyer's Pond and going up. I don't recall that ever being an issue. They were always going to take water from the cul-de-sac at Wyndam Point. So they are doing things without our knowledge once again and it is not reflected in these weekly reports that we have. I am upset too Toni.

Mrs. Ayers: But Charlene, that mountain. Why was all that dirt brought in to build it up so high?

Mrs. Miller: Because they found rock and they did not want to blast.

Mrs. Ayers: No, they did not have to do anything except prepare the land. Six inches, maybe a foot to put sod down. You prepare the ground, you lay the sod and you play ball. Not build a 30 foot mound of dirt. What's going to end with that? I don't know whether they are going to continue gradually…

Mrs. Miller: I think there are more fields beyond those that we see now.

Mrs. Ayers: It gets worse and worse. The detention basin would not have had to been there at all. That is going to create problems and I commiserate with those people that are concerned because I don't know, there better be a fence around it because bad things can happen. 160 Sandshore Road, I have been before this Council over the last ten years, I don't know how many times. Last year we had Mr. Tom Potere who was the Zoning Officer, I spoke to him in May, shortly after he was hired 2001. We talked about that house at 160. Those of you who are not familiar with it, it is a ransack old piece of property that would not exist in other areas of the Township because people would not put up with it, but we are very complacent. Anyhow, but I am been complaining. So I talked to Tom and he said that the owner was in the process of going before the Board of Adjustment because he needed to get permission and then he was going to get a permit to raze the house. He had plans in for the new house and everything. That was my last communication with Tom, in July of 2001. So I said, gee, the house, nothing's happening. I think I will call and see what is happening. Well Tom is no longer employed by the Township but there is an assistant Zoning Officer and I spoke with her and she said he is now waiting to get a permit to raze the house. The question is, how long does it take to issue a permit? It's been going on for a long time and I think it's enough already. I am ready to put a Match to it.

Mr. Guenther: That's on the Public record there Toni.

Mr. Rattner: Seriously Toni, when I was on the Board of Health and that has been an issue and we are lucky; we did knock down quite a few houses, maybe about eight or nine years ago all in the Budd Lake area. What happens is, every time they try taking action this guy comes up and says I am going to do something and basically he takes out a permit or goes to see somebody or threatens something and that basically sets the clock again. I know I got frustrated because a couple different times as the Chairman of the Board of Health, I tried classifying it as a nuisance, but once he goes and says I have a permit, a $40.00 application to the Board of Adjustment or something, it basically stops everything because you have to give them time. Then he keeps doing it over and over again. We wanted to, at least my idea was to condemn the house and we'll raze it just like we did those six or seven others and put a lein on the property. I don't know what has been happening lately and now we have a turnover in the department. But that is part of the problem. If you know how to operate the system. It's a problem. Not very different; we have some commercial properties that we have been fighting and going to court, we cannot believe how much some of those property owners have spent fighting us.

Mr. Guenther: Both Ray and I were on the Board of Adjustment when this came up and this goes back a good three or four years. The last I knew and again now that we don't have a Zoning Officer and we don't have anybody here tonight to answer it but…

Mrs. Spencer: We do have a new Zoning Officer who started on Monday.

Mr. Guenther: Well, he's new he is not going to know the history. The Board of Adjustment tried to get him to get together with an adjoining property owner to bring the lot size up. It still wasn't going to be conforming, but it was going to be more conforming if you understand what I mean. He did have plans to build something nice. Now what has happened in the two and a half years that I have been on the Board of Adjustment, I don't know. But that was the last I heard unless Ray knows something else beyond that since I think you served on it before the time that I was on.

Mr. Perkins: Bernie, your recollection is 100% correct. That was the standard, the gentlman has tried he has gone out. I do know that this year we did pass a resolution up here that talks about building permits. When you take out a building permit now there is a time frame which hopefully will go a little more to giving some credence and some bite to your Zoning Officer, now when you see somebody undertake some work, instead of seeing it last forever, it only has a two year time limit on it and then we can take some action on it.

Mrs. Ayers: This guy, he can't get a building permit until he gets a permit to raze the house. I wish somebody
could check into that and see if he even has applied for…

President Scapicchio: Cindy could you possibly make this a priority for the new Zoning Officer and find out.

Mrs. Spencer: Could you give me the gentleman's name?

Mrs. Ayers: I don't know his name, the address is 160 Sandshore Road in Budd Lake and this is an ongoing problem for many years. There is an oil tank that he did take out of the ground, it's sitting there. I think it is in the ground. There was some work going on. Speaking of that brings me to my next point, JJF Inc. that developer down in Jennies Lane. I don't understand, the people down there complain that he did in fact take oil tanks out of the ground without permits. Then I read…

Mr. Guenther: We have some correspondence here that will clarify things. This is from the DEP. I am sorry if I am boring everybody else, but since it has come up, I think we should set the record straight. This is Thomas however you pronounce his last name from the DEP. On July 10, 2002 I conducted a site inspection. The inspection was prompted by a complaint received by the DEP on April 19, 2002. Investigation of the complaint consisted of an interview with you addressing Mr. Wilpert. Mr. Rocco was the developer and Mrs. Uhrmann who was the complainant. Individual inspection of Number 869 in an undeveloped lot on Jennies Lane. The complaint centers around two tanks, which all parties concerned agree have been disposed of. The involved parties, Mrs. Uhrmann and Mr. Rocco also confirmed the former location of the tanks. This agreement appears to center on whether the one tank was buried or was located on the ground behind 8 Jennies Lane. During the site inspection I know that no evidence of oil contamination or of any tank excavation. Mrs. Uhrmann also identified another tank that was behind Number 6 Jennies Lane. I investigated this tank and found it to be approximately a 500 gallon circular tank with a galvanized interior braced bottom on one end and an the other end has a missing top lid. Tank has interior support ring which would support the lid and has some white residue adhering to the inner surface. The tank is heavily rusted and has rivets holding sections of it together. The tank is probably from the beginning of the Century. It was probably used for feed or fertilizer storage. The Department of Environmental Protection only becomes involved incases where there has been a reportable discharge. The investigation conducted on Jennies Lane did not result in any indication that there has been a discharge and therefore the department will not be pursuing this investigation. During the investigation I was also informed that a tape meaning a video tape had been sent to the department and I have been informed that the department does not have that tape. Disagreement in this case also centers on disposal of the tanks, I informed all parties that these issues are with in the purview of Township Officals. Questions can be directed to me at this telephone number. So as far as the DEP is concerned, they found no evidence and the have closed the case.

Mrs. Ayers: What does the Township do about the tax? I just paid an enormous amount of money. I had an oil tank in the ground and I had a gasoline tank in the ground an I had to have the person from the insurance company, Fred Detoro was there, I had the contractor and the people who come and take the sludge out of the tanks, plus it cost me $60.00 for a permit.

Mr. Guenther: Toni, the point here is that there is disagreement, they found no evidence and the tank that was there is the one that was used for feed storage. Supposedly this video tape as Mrs. Uhrmann who had been here at the time said that she had taped the removal of the tank. Both Cynthia Spencer and I asked her for that tape and she said she sent it to the DEP and this was the DEP's response, so what are we to do?

Mrs. Ayers: With the way the article was written, first they said it was a water tank and then Chuck McGroarty went out and looked at it and he thought it saw residue from spots where there were possibly oil tanks and oil residue. I said what is going on here. Here I just got through paying an enormous amount of money and this guy gets away with it. So they apparently found no oil.

Mr. Greenbaum: You can't believe everything you read.

Mrs. Ayers: That's true. Okay, and speaking of the Fire Marshall, that is a snazzy red vehicle he has. Did we ever find out who authorized the purchased of that vehicle? Remember that was up for discussion a few weeks ago?

President Scapicchio: We have a memo here somewhere explaining to us what transpired. Does anybody have a copy of that? We will try to locate that and get you a copy. Cynthia, maybe you could explain because you wrote this memo I think, so maybe you can help us out a little?

Mrs. Ayers: It was the same kind of discussion a few weeks ago when I was here and it was the same thing. Nobody knew who authorized the purchase of this vehicle.

President Scapicchio: We had a detailed analysis from Cynthia.

Mrs. Spencer: Essentially the Fire Marshall I guess was offered by Flanders Fire Department that they would put in a purchase order to take on this vehicle. He had ordered the vehicle originally when his vehicle was totaled in the accident and when he was notified that the vehicle was in while we had agreement from the Council as to a letter of intent to purchase a new vehicle, we did not have an approved capital budget so he could not pay for the vehicle. It is my understanding that Warnock who provided the vehicle took the purchase order as a hold mechanism and provided that vehicle with the understanding that when the capital budget was approved, they would reissue a purchase order to the Township and at that time the Township would purchase the vehicle at the old price.

Mrs. Ayers: And if nothing was approved, then what?

Mayor Licitra: The man needs a vehicle to do his job.

Mrs. Ayers: He was using a car for a while, you know, you don't need a fancy little truck.

Mayor Licitra: He needs a 4 wheel vehicle to get off terrain on his job.

Mr. Greenbaum: Toni, there was never a question that vehicle was going to be purchased by the Township for him. It was just a question of getting the capital Ordinance approved as far as I was concerned and I think that Warnock took the risk the ultimately it wasn't going to be purchased.

Mrs. Ayers: Okay, thank you.

President Scapicchio: Thank you Toni. Anybody else?

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: I kind of forgot why I have not been here for long, now I know. First of all I don't think anymore letters should go out from the Mayor's Office with tax payer dollars unless we get the facts straight. Obviously a tax increase is a tax increase. You can't make it sound like something else when it is an increase. Water and sewer as everybody should know by now is a separate utility and to imply that because I am lowering water and sewer rates and therefore when I raise your taxes it all comes out equal is evasive at best. There should be no co-mingling of those funds and no suggestion that one negates the other. On the subject of water and sewer I understand that one of the reasons why we have water restrictions in Town is because of the inability of our wells and distribution system to meet the demand. I seriously question why we are reducing water rates if we need to be spending some money to improve our water distribution and supply. I think we should take a hard look at how this utility deduction was arrived at. If we are asking our residents to not be able to wash their cars and watering their lawns, etc, because we can't supply them with the commodity that they need, lets stop playing games on trying to keep 75 % of the Taxpayer's expenditure to the Town neutral when the issue here is two separate entities. Secondly I find it extremely offensive that the Mayor would send a letter to a portion of the Town asking them what they would like done with a park in their section of Town when all of the residents in the Town will be asked to reach in their pockets to pay for anything that might be done for that one section of Town. If we want to polarize our community, that is the way to do it. Instead we should go out with a park wide plan for the Town to all residents or send no letters out at all, but you don't send a letter out from the Mayor of a Township and only go to a portion of that Township. I feel that I am qualified to speak regarding this particular park because in 1993 our Mayor was one of seven Councilmen who voted to give that land away to the Mt. Olive Childcare Center. Myself and another Budd Lake resident were part of a committee of five that worked to collect over 1,000 signatures to overturn that ordinance so that there is a park in Flanders Crossing. So we in Budd Lake are concerned about what goes on anywhere in the confines of this Township and will do something to support the residents of Flanders if we feel it is in the Community's interest. Now regarding development of this Township and what the Council could do, and what the Planning Board can do. First of all I am sure you are all aware of by now of the ruling that Judge Stanton made regarding Crown Towers and some of what I consider to be very important decisions and we are part of that ruling. First of all it was unknown to me but it is now very clear to me that we have a requirement in our Township Ordinance that when a developer comes in, every lot that he is asking for approvement for should be tested for waste water disposal, commonly referred to as a perk test. I would like to know why we are not requiring that.
We don't have to waive it. If we are serious about good development in Town and maybe slowing down development in Town, lets utilize the existing code that we have. The first recommendation is that the Planning Board be reminded of this fact, that there is a Township ordinance that requires this and that we would like it upheld. Secondly, Judge Stanton indicated that the Planning Board can and I don't think they will unless this body passes an ordinance to require that any request that any developer have for waivers exceptions, approvals, whatever from the DEP, be taken care of first before he even comes to this Township Planning Board. Judge Stanton ruled that you can do that. You don't have to go through what we went through for two years and issue a ruling at the end that we approved this based upon you get your other approvals. We should not

Mr. Bonte (cont'd): have to sit here and entertain a developer who has a complex scheme of wetlands, buffer averaging or exceptions to wetlands or whatever unless the State has already acted on them or whether or not they are appropriate. Let's get these people out of here until they've done the work they need to do anyway.

President Scapicchio: If we required them to get DEP approval for… How far along is the design for that development. The question I have is, it would that then lock us into what the DEP approved?

Mr. Bonte: Of course not. He has to meet the local land use requirement. The DEP is going to look at it and they are going to say, well you can do this, this, and this. I think what is going to happen in most of these cases especially with the lands that are remaining in this Town, is that 25% to 50% of the land that he thinks he is going to be able to build on, the DEP is going to tell him he can't even touch, so he is not going to be able to come in here. In fact what happens now is the reverse. He comes in here to use Crown Towers as an example, he gets 117 lots approved, then he goes down to DEP, and their attitude is people from Town are happy with this. They don't really care at that point. It needs to work the other way. I know the Planning Board is very busy and they don't like all these special meetings. Well lets make the developer do the work he is supposed to do ahead of time before he even comes in here. So I think we need to look at adopting an Ordinance which it appears from what I heard in court would stand up to a developer's Challenge.

President Scapicchio: John, is that done in any other municipalities that you are aware of?

Mr. Dorsey: In the first place the Ordinance already requires as far as I am concerned that it was my argument in court that it requires satisfactory peculation test on every lot. The ordinance in a rather general sense requires every lot to be "usable." Usable of course means that it is a lot which can be built upon and that obviously involves well and sewer. Secondly in many towns there is a considerable debate as to whether or not you impost the requirement of receiving all DEP approvals prior to the Planning Board granting any approval. Or the Planning for instance considering preliminary approval. I don't think there is any reason not to have such a requirement, indeed in the Fire Tower case, of course the one thing Rich has not said, the Planning Board never
approved Fire Tower, so lets not forget that point while you are chastising certain things, they never approved it but the plan was based upon Fire Tower achieving a Wetland buffer averaging plan approval from the DEP that probably involved 30 lots and might have been crucial in terms of whether or not those rocks could have provided a building envelope within. I don't think there is any reason why any developer cannot be required to first get those approvals. It would seem preferable to then letting someone come and getting an approval making it subject to those various State approvals being obtained and then only finding out for one reason or another the State approvals cannot be obtained in the same fashion that the plan had been submitted to the Planning Board.

Mr. Greenbaum: I am not sure everything that Rich said is totally accurate. I think the substance of what he is saying is protecting Mt. Olive and whatever we can do to protect Mt. Olive should be done. If we can hold up all development until after all DEP approvals have been received then we should do it. I think the bottom line is that we all learned a lot through the Crown Tower, through Judge Stanton's decision, if Judge Stanton was correct. I am not sure ultimately that the appellate division faced with a different set of facts.

Mr. Dorsey: I am sorry Rob, Judge Stanton learned it in the law and knowledgeable about the facts in that case on May 15th.

Mr. Greenbaum: What I am saying is a blanket protection factually; different scenario then Crown Towers. Crown Towers dealt with DEP approvals on massive amounts of lots on issues involving wastewater and buffer averaging but there are other DEP approvals and other county approvals that are required which are not such a significant import to the application. I am not sure that ultimately if an application is denied based upon some of the other factors that Judge Stanton would have come down the same way. So I think that factually while I think it is a great thing to have if we could have it, I am not sure that all applications would fit under this one umbrella that Mr. Bonte would like to have. If it could, great, I agree with you 100%.

Mr. Bonte: Thirdly, and as many of you know one of my issues in this two year adventure that we had was the fact that I do not believe that the distension basins that were designed for Crown Towers would meet a 100 year storm and that is a requirement of State law. I specifically asked Judge Stanton whether or not they could be required to meet local rainfall data if it was available. His answer was, if the data was available the Township could consider making that a requirement. Within the State law you have the ability to do this. It says if local rainfall data is available it may be used. Let's put it in our Town Ordinance. Why use data from a site in Trenton, NJ, that historically has 24 hour storms, half of what we have here.

Mrs. Miller: I would like to add to that too Rich for the audience that Judge Stanton also said that for a period of time that, that data has been collected and you certainly do have over 20 years of data collecting and you have been doing it systematically over the years.
Mr. Bonte: I am not necessarily saying that the data that I have collected for 32 years in Town is the data to be used. There is published data by both national weather service and other certifiable meteorologists that more accurately represent rainfall in the highlands region. This is not some leftfield horse I am trying to champion. We are talking about avoiding a catastrophe for example what happened in Sparta two years ago. There are bridges up there that are still not opened. Let's not miss an opportunity to legally control development and if it is going to happen make sure it is right. I am not saying that we become "antidevelopment", but we need to use every tool that is already afforded to us. To make sure that what does happen, happens properly.

Mr. Greenbaum: I don't like to think of it as controlling development; I like to think of it as protecting the residents of Mt. Olive.

Mr. Bonte: And not only Mt. Olive, for example improperly storm water facilities can affect more than the residents of Mount Olive. Thank you for your time.

Dave Jones, Route 46 Budd Lake: Just out of curiosity, is there any attempt by the current Administration to control expenses and finish one park before making any improvements on any others?

Mayor Licitra: Yes

Mr. Jones: Could you explain?

Mayor Licitra: In what instance

Mr. Jones: It just kills me that Turkey Brook Park went $1.5 million over budget so far and that you are planning on trying to make improvements to another park when you have not even finished this one huge project that there seems no end in site to and expenses that is going to run even further over budget.

Mayor Licitra: I think I am trying to satisfy the people in the Township and the quality of life and if I have to do that by planning more than one thing at a time, it's a plan and it's a vision and at least it is something more than what was done before in this Township.

Mr. Jones: Did you ever think of surveying the whole Township on whether we need anymore pocket pocks.

Mayor Licitra: I surveyed and I intend to survey each portion of the Township and find out what their needs are as far as the pocket parks. If you don't plan or you don't get public input for it, it won't work. You have to have public support and input and that is what the plan of this Administration is.

Mr. Jones: We have seen a lot of public support tonight for you plans. Thank you.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the Public? Seeing none, we will close the Public Portion and this brings us to final Council Comments.


Mrs. Miller: I would like to expand on Mr. Bonte's suggestions which I think are very good suggestions, I would like to use Country Oaks as an example. We allowed the developer to donate money to Turkey Brook, probably about a quarter of what it would have cost them to put in a swimming pool and a community house such as the people in Flanders Crossing have and yet everybody was real excited about that and now I find it ironic that these people have to meet in our Municipal Building because they don't have a community center or the senior citizens center and they met I think for a few years in the Budd Lake Firehouse. The Planning Board should be requiring that a community center and pool facilities or tot lots should be a requirement of any development that has a substantial number of houses. I think that is one way to avoid the problems that we are now facing where all of these communities want to have these things and don't and they are coming to our Mayor and other people requesting these things when our Planning Board allowed it to happen in the first place.

President Scapicchio: Mayor I read this letter of June 15th that you sent to a Linwood Avenue resident about the one way and the ordinance. In here you suggested at the Public Meeting on October 9, 2001 and again on November 20, 2001, the Council heard public comment on the purposed ordinance and made a decision not to adopt that ordinance as presented and you tell this resident that by copy of this letter you are now asking me to follow this up. Steve did some checking and the minutes would reflect that at those meetings, there were several residents who brought up several different issues and it was handed back to the Administration to research the issues that were brought forth at those public meetings and to come back with a recommendation and we have not heard anything since that. If you would like a copy of those minutes, Steve has them available
for you.

Mayor Licitra: Yes I would, thank you.

President Scapicchio: So it was really put back in the Administration's hands who failed to get back to the Council.

Mayor Licitra: A letter wasn't intended to admonish the Council and say the Council hasn't done their job. The letter was just to show…

President Scapicchio: Well that is exactly what this letter stated.

Mayor Licitra: It was my understanding that at that point we…I will get the minutes and I will find out and I will check on that but the idea was to bring it back to you people where it belonged over here, but if you needed information from us we will gladly get information for you.

President Scapicchio: You were present at that meeting when it was sent back to you during that public hearing based on some input from the public when we discussed this ordinance at that Public Hearing and the Administration failed to get back. I actually do resent the fact that you are the first one to take credit but you are also the first one to pass off blame. I resented this letter. On behalf of myself and Council, because we did not fail on our responsibility. We diligently listened to the Public Comment asked you through you for the Police Department to review those comments and come back with another suggestion for us. That suggestion could have in fact been the same way that the Ordinance was written originally.

Mayor Licitra: Dave, if that is the case, we will get you the information. I was told that the information was given to you and thus the putting it back to you and having a resident get in touch with you and we will check it out and I'll get back to you.

Mr. Guenther: I now remember the meeting. There was a proposal, and it was the Police Department who made the suggestion, and there was significant resident opposition from people in that area regarding the different, there were various proposals made about different one ways. In one direction, the other direction certain hours, there were restricting hours. We finally got to the point where we said wait a minute, there is to much diversified opinions here. We have to go back and get some more facts to try to settle this to come up with a plan that is a little bit more acceptable to everybody.

Mr. Rattner: I think the big issue which I am not sure if it was tabled or it was voted down was the fact the Council was not going to arbitrarily change the recommendations of a trained safety officer. That comment did come up, that we were not going to sit here and just because we felt something made more sense until they came back and said yes, it would fit or this is the way it should be done. We had about three or four meetings on it and the last one the officer was not at the meeting, and I can understand, he made the first three or four. I think what really happened was there was a lot of open issues and concerns that we had with signage, with having the different times how people would know when they could come down and when they couldn't. We have to go back I think the recommendation was also that the Administration work with the School Board to come up with a better workable plan because that is where the proposal originally came from at least based on our minutes.

President Scapicchio: Thanks Steve. We have an executive session on Open Space Issues.

Mr. Guenther made a motion to go into executive session and Mr. Perkins seconded that motion. Executive session opened 9:59 pm immediately followed by the Public Meeting reconvened and Adjourned at 10:25 pm.

Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on October 29, 2002.

Mount Olive Township Clerk




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