Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
June 14 , 2005

The Regular Public Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to Order at 7:30 pm by Council President Greenbaum with the Pledge of Allegiance.



According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been given to the Mount Olive Chronicle. Notice has been posted at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive Township, New Jersey and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL Present: Mr. Buell, Mrs. Labow, Mr. Mund, Mr. Guenther, Mr. Rattner,
Mr. Greenbaum
Absent: Mr. Perkins

President Greenbaum: Let the record reflect that Mr. Perkins is excused for health reasons.

ALSO PRESENT: Mayor De La Roche; Bob Casey, Interim Business Administrator; Gary Higgins,
Township Auditor; Fred Semrau, Township Attorney; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk

1. Resolution RE: Budget Self Examination.

President Greenbaum: At this point, we have a resolution with regard to the Budget Self Examination. Mr. Buell, can you please move that?

Mr. Buell: I move the 2005 Municipal Budget.

President Greenbaum: No, move the Budget Self Examination.

Mr. Buell: I move the Budget Self Examination.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: Okay, it’s been moved and seconded, Mr. Higgins.

Gary Higgins: Yes, if I could just give you a quick idea of what you’re looking at here. Every two out of three years, a community has the option, if it meets certain eligibility requirements, to basically self exam their budget. That includes a review by your CFO and myself, as a registered municipal accountant, and basically you’re not under the scrutiny of the Division of Local Government on a total review of the budget, and this resolution basically states that you’ve met the criteria to self exam your budget and that all the particulars regarding the budget have met the appropriate budget statutes and from here you can go forth and pass that and then adopt the budget based upon the self examination versus the Division of Local Government’s exam.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on this particular resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public. Is there anyone from Council who wishes to be heard on this particular resolution? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Rattner voted No

2. Resolution RE: Waiver of Reading in Full of the 2005 Budget.

President Greenbaum: The next resolution is Waiver of Reading in Full of the 2005 Budget. Can you please move that, Ms. Labow?

Ms. Labow: I move resolution for the Waiver of Reading in Full of the Budget for 2005.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on this resolution? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public. Is there any Council comment? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Rattner voted No

Public Hearing on 2005 Municipal Budget

President Greenbaum: At this point, I would open it up to the public with regard to the Public Hearing on the 2005 Municipal Budget. Is there anyone who wishes to be heard? Seeing none, I will close it to the public. Is there anyone who has Council comments with respect to the 2005 Municipal Budget? Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: Question….I was just reading my notes and it appears that the part time position in the Clerk’s office has been inadvertently cut from this budget, cost of about $10,000. I just read my e-mail with a list of all of the cuts made in the budget, $437,000. That was not one of the cuts that was made, so I’m assuming there’s been a mistake in that particular line of the budget….the salary line of the budget for the Clerk’s office.

President Greenbaum: Is there anyone else who has comment on that issue? Mr. Casey.

Mr. Casey: I don’t believe it was cut. I think….I looked through my notes and in going through the…..I wish Sherry was here….going through Sherry’s changes, there was no change there. I think what happened, is when the….one of the employees in that office received a sizable increase in 2005, and I believe the number is over in the salary adjustment account, and I think that’s why it shows it as being……the budget in 2005 is the same budget as 2004 with all increases thrown over to the salary adjustment account, and I don’t remember that one being reduced. I wish Sherry was here, she will be here a little later, because I don’t believe the Council ever took any action to reduce that line. That’s my recollection, the money is over in the salary adjustment account.

Mr. Rattner: Well, obviously you can see, it’s very plain on here, we never took the dollars out and dollars were never on any of our lists. We did acknowledge that we had the issue that when the Deputy Clerk was given her position, I guess last March…a year ago March, she didn’t get….she missed an increment and we said that we would make sure, and I think that’s what Mr. Casey is talking about in the salary adjustment account, because we realized we were short if we were going to give her that and get her up to the level that she was supposed to have been at when she got that promotion.

Mr. Casey: Let’s just say that there are funds in the salary adjustment account which would allow that budget to go through as it currently exists. Okay, the intention was not to reduce it.

President Greenbaum: Okay, the intention of Council is to keep that position funded and that is how we’re moving forward, Mr. Casey.

Mr. Casey: That’s my understanding.

Mr. Rattner: And I think the other thing is that we have to look in there is that the amount that has been budgeted is actually about 4% more than was actually spent last year anyway.

President Greenbaum: Okay, any other questions? Mr. Mund.

Mr. Mund: Yes, with this resolution, we’re eliminating the beach fees and the recreation income?

President Greenbaum: That’s for discussion this evening, but that….

Mr. Mund: That’s part of this.

President Greenbaum: Yes, it was changed in the budget documents based upon a straw indication related to the additional funds which we received by way of the long-term debt refinancing and everyone seemed to be in agreement that it was what they wanted to….that they were in agreement that those fees should be reduced or eliminated to the extent that if Council, this evening, decides that that’s not the case, then the budget documents would have to be changed, if that were to happen. Anything else? Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: So, why are we discussing it later if we’re eliminating it now, right?

Mr. Mund: That was my question.

President Greenbaum: We’re not, we’re discussing….we’re actually, by passing the budget, we’re eliminating those fees. We’re going to change the ordinance accordingly, once we adopt the budget.

Mr. Casey: The first action before you, would be to amend the ordinance, excuse me, to amend the budget to remove those fees, that’s the budget resolution that you have in front of you, okay? That would remove those fees, and then once you’ve amended the budget, then you would go for adoption. If you decide not to remove those fees, then you can adopt the ordinance as it’s currently constituted. So, the first action that is before you is item number three which is a resolution to amend the budget, which eliminates those two fees, and reduces that account by an offsetting amount. So, it’s a zero impact on tax rate, so that’s what you’re doing.

President Greenbaum: Right, and then we…late in the meeting, would have to amend the ordinance with respect to the fees themselves.

Mr. Casey: Right.

Ms. Labow: Okay.

President Greenbaum: And that’s what’s going to happen this evening, those are the three steps. Any other questions on the budget? Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: Well, it’s not a question, a statement….you know, when we introduced the budget, I said I was still unhappy with it, however, I was going to let it go forward. I said what would make me happy is if we got the tax rate down to what I thought we were agreeing to. Tonight, I will be voting against, because I haven’t changed my mind, the municipal budget. I will be voting for the sanitation district budget.

President Greenbaum: The budget takes five votes to pass, five affirmative votes.

Mr. Rattner: Does it? No, that’s capital.

President Greenbaum: Oh, it’s on the capital…..then maybe I’ll vote against it, too, then we won’t have enough votes.

Mrs. Lashway: No, five votes to adopt the budget.

Mr. Higgins: The majority of the full membership, I think.

President Greenbaum: Okay, any other questions or comments?

Mr. Guenther: Yes, clarify for me….the budget that we’re considering tonight includes those fees, correct?

President Greenbaum: No, the first thing we’re going to do is to amend the budget, as it was introduced, to eliminate those fees and have an offsetting reduction in the long-term debt repayment…..

Mr. Guenther: Okay.

President Greenbaum: That we’re able to do that because of our….

Mr. Guenther: I understand, okay. I understand….I just wasn’t sure of the procedure.

3. Resolution RE: Resolution to Amend 2005 Municipal Budget.

President Greenbaum: Any other questions or comments? The next item for discussion then is the resolution to amend the 2005 Budget, Mr. Mund.

Mr. Mund: Motion to approve resolution regarding the resolution to amend the 2005 Municipal Budget.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded, is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on the amendment? Seeing none, I close it to the public. Any Council comments, further to this issue? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL All voted Yes, except Mr. Guenther and Mr. Mund voted No

Mr. Mund: Four to two.

Mr. Casey: Yes, what does it take to amend the budget? This does not change the tax rate.

Mr. Higgins: The question becomes if it’s a majority of the governing body, or the majority of those present, that’s the question.

Mrs. Lashway: It’s two thirds of the membership.

President Greenbaum: No, that’s to pass the budget. This is simply an amendment to the introduction. It has to be a majority. It’s not passing the budget, which has to be a super majority.

Mr. Higgins: Well, neither needs a super majority, I think the question is whether it’s a majority of the full governing body, or majority of the governing body present.

President Greenbaum: I believe, in past…..

Mr. Higgins: It’s 48:4-5.

Mr. Rattner: Can we get a ruling?

President Greenbaum: No, everyone is not here, Mr. Perkins isn’t here, we have six, but this was an amendment anyway to the introduction. It only takes a majority to introduce so, therefore, it should only take a majority to amend what’s been introduced.

Mr. Higgins: I would agree, but a majority….

President Greenbaum: To pass the budget is the question.

Mr. Higgins: To pass is still a majority. I’m just questioning…..the question is a majority of present or the full governing body?

Mr. Rattner: It’s going to be the same either way, because to get the majority, if you don’t, you’re going to have a tie. The majority is four votes no matter which way you look at it. It doesn’t really matter. Gary, if we can introduce a budget by a simple majority, wouldn’t it be consistent if we amended it, before final passage, we could do it by simple majority?

Mr. Higgins: Yes.

President Greenbaum: That’s what we just did. It’s the passage of the budget which requires five votes…. five out of seven to pass the budget, not to amend it.

Mr. Higgins: It says a majority….adopted by a majority of the full membership.

Mr. Rattner: It’s four votes either way. That’s a regular majority, the same majority.

Mr. Higgins: A majority of the full membership is five votes.

Mr. Rattner: The amendment was accepted.

Mr. Higgins: Yes, the amendment was accepted.

Mr. Semrau: No budget or amendment shall be adopted unless a director shall previously……..and shall be adopted by a majority of the full membership.

Mr. Rattner: It’s not a super majority.

Mr. Semrau: Amendment and adoption.

President Greenbaum: Okay, so we only need four votes then. You’re in agreement with that, Mr. Semrau?

Mr. Semrau: I’m not sure, Mr. Greenbaum.

Mr. Mund: Fred, did you say you’re not sure?

President Greenbaum: Well, we’re beyond the amendment, we’re now going to adopt the budget, so we need to have an answer.

Mr. Rattner: We’ve passed budgets four to three before.

Mr. Higgins: The amendment had four votes?

President Greenbaum: We had four votes, four to two.

Mr. Higgins: And the amendment does not require a public hearing, since you did not increase or decrease any line item by more than 10%, or add a new revenue in excess of 1%, or adjust the tax levy by more than 5%. So, from this point, you could proceed to page 41 and 42 of the budget document, which represents the adopting resolution, and proceed to take a roll call.

President Greenbaum: We’re going to take a five minute recess. (7:45 pm)

President Greenbaum: The meeting was called back to order at 7:48 pm. Four votes, a majority of the full membership of the Council. At this point, I would ask Mr. Guenther to move the resolution to adopt the amended 2005 Municipal Budget.

4. Resolution RE: Adoption of Amended 2005 Municipal Budget.

Mr. Guenther: I hereby move for approval of the Resolution for the Amended 2005 Municipal Budget.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Is there any Council discussion? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL All voted Yes, except Mr. Mund and Mr. Rattner voted No

Public Hearing on 2005 Solid Waste Collection District Budget

5. Resolution RE: Adoption of 2005 Solid Waste Collection District Budget.

President Greenbaum: At this point, I’ll open the meeting up to the public on the 2005 Sold Waste Collection District Budget. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on this? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public. Is there any Council discussion? Mr. Rattner, can you please move Resolution Re: Adoption of 2005 Solid Waste Collection District Budget?

Mr. Rattner: Thank you Mr. President. I move for adoption of the 2005 Solid Waste Collection District Budget.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Greenbaum voted No

Mt. Olive Child Care & Learning Center – Old Library

President Greenbaum: The next item for discussion, Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center.

Mr. Rattner: Mr. President, I will leave the dais for the discussion on this since I am a trustee for the last ten years for the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center.

President Greenbaum: Let the record reflect that Mr. Rattner is stepping down and leaving the room with respect to this particular issue. Mr. Casey.

Mr. Casey: Yes. The last meeting we had a discussion, we had distributed a memo, we had three policy issues. The first was the size of the building, which the Mount Olive Day Care Center said they’d do the existing building. What I would like to give you is a spread sheet showing you the impact for the debt service on this and the alternates that would go for the repayment on that and I will explain the numbers to you. They have now indicated that the total cost would be $1,150,000 for debt service. If you look at $1,150,000, Lisa was good enough to find for me the bond ordinance for the original building. The bond ordinance for that building had a life of thirty years, which means that the amendment….any renovations can only have a bond of fifteen years. So the bond that you would have to renovate that building would have a maximum bond life fifteen years. So, what I’ve done is I took that number, I took the debts…the 5% down payment off, which would mean that we’ll be issuing in $1,092,000 worth of debt, okay. If you look at that number over fifteen years on a straight line, it comes to $98,260 per year. If you look at that number at 4.5%, it comes in at $101,000. So, the issue is that what’s the township would be paying on that debt for that fifteen years for the numbers that they have looked at. Now, the issue that we’ve never resolved with the governing body is the pay-back period for that debt. The total cost, if you look at the total cost to the town at 4% is $1,473,000, and at 4.5% is $1,525,000, that’s principle and debt. Obviously, one alternate would be if they could afford to pay back the debt as it accrued, that’s…the number would either be the $98,000 or the $101,000, it may be possible, by the way, if you were just dealing with that number, to have a…start off a lower number and come in at a higher number slightly. There are ways to weigh that slightly, I just used a straight line just to give you an idea. They are…the original discussion that they had is they were looking for a 25 year payment. So, I took the $1,143,000, which would be the total cost, over 25 years would be $58,000. Now, the issue is, at the end of 25 years, obviously the township would be harmless, but for the first fifteen years, you’d be….I’m going to use the word subsidize for the lack of a better term, the taxpayers would be carrying $40,000 worth of that debt service for each year for the first fifteen years and then they would catch up on that amount for years 16 through 25. So, by the end of 25, you would be zero balanced. So, if you go to change the lease term and the payback lease term, other than the fifteen years that would be allowed by law, then you start having a situation….is during that first fifteen years, the taxpayers would, in fact, be supplementing, making a contribution, whatever you want, for the operation and then they would recover that money in years sixteen through whatever other years you go for. So, that’s the issue that we never resolved two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, when we last discussed this, is the term of the lease. We originally looked at a term that may have been eighteen years or twenty years, because that may have been what we thought the bond issue would have been until Lisa was good enough to find for us the original bond issue and that clarified….and the fact that they’re not expanding the building….you know, now we know it’s a fifteen year bond. So, we know what the bonding term is, the question the governing body has to resolve is okay, what is the payout period for those lease payments and this just gives you three alternates. It shows you what it would have been at 20 years, or at 25 years and it gives you an idea of the variation that may be in there given those cost structures, and that’s really the main policy issue that you’re looking at at this point in time. Obviously, the simplest one would be, you know, match the debt service, everything is on fifteen years, it’s a clean wash, the taxpayers are held harmless from that standpoint. That, obviously, is an issue that, you know, would be the cleanest. So, the issue to the governing body is how far you go beyond that.

President Greenbaum: Colleen.

Ms. Labow: How much are the maintenance costs for the building right now that we’re paying every month for a vacant building?

Mr. Casey: Right now, our cost in that building is the electric, which ran a little bit higher than I wanted in January and February. We’re probably looking at an average of about $500 a month or so, for electric and that on the average in a year keeping, you know, just keeping it above 40 and under 80 or whatever the case is in there.

Ms. Labow: So, that’s about $500 a month.

Mr. Casey: $500 to $600 a month I think is what you’re going to have.

Ms. Labow: And what about the exterior maintenance?

Mr. Casey: Even under our current proposal, we have talked to them about we would be doing the grass cutting, etc. at this site, because we have the big equipment. So, we…you know, we cut that whole area over there, so we can easily enough cut that without any significant change, and we’ll plow them out, too, because we …basically, we plow this out, we’ll plow that out. So, from that standpoint, we weren’t, you know, we were just saying that as an add-on to our current operation, wouldn’t be that difficult to swing by and do that.

Ms. Labow: So, basically, the monthly payments you’re talking about $8,477.25 for a fifteen year, and if they go on a twenty year lease, it’s….what does $73,000 come out to? Just trying to figure out the difference per month, what we’re really talking about…in costs that we’re going to have for the building regardless.

Mr. Casey: Well, if you divide 12 into that, you come out at about $6,100 or so…

Ms. Labow: What I’m saying is there’s a cost already to the taxpayers for that building, so it’s not like we’re going to be covering….covering a cost of all that Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center….we’re going to have that cost regardless, whether they’re there or not.

Mr. Buell: Yes, question….the $1,150,000…..

Mr. Casey: Correct.

Mr. Buell: I have this…the second sheet that I received on June 10th says $880,000.

Mr. Casey: There was a supplemental sheet that came out from….it showed construction costs, it showed miscellaneous site work at $40,000, $50,000 for parking lot improvements, $25,000 for outside fixtures, ADA safety fencing, etc., $90,000 engineering and $45,000 for soft cost contingencies, etc.. That’s an item that came through from Gail as to what they thought would be a safe number. Now, you know, hopefully it will come in less than $1,150,000 and hopefully they may be able to get some grants, but we have to, from a financial planning standpoint, assume the worst case scenario. So, they basically came up with a budget of $1,150,000.

Mr. Buell: Okay, second question. How many of these….how much of the $1,150,000 are improvements we would have to make? For instance, the HVAC, the…..

Mr. Casey: Well, the issue is what you’re going to re-use the building for. I mean, you know, if in fact we were going to re-use the building, if you remember the architect here….you said well the HVAC currently works, but if you’re going to look at a building that’s got a twenty year lease or so, you would…you know, you would improve it and it goes in your twenty year cost, so a lot of what he was doing relative to the building improvements, were in fact looking….you know, at a twenty year life. So, you know, the issue would be for a short-term basis, nominal, but at some point in time, yes, you’re going to have to replace the roof at some point in time, yes, you’re going to have to replace the HVAC, etc. The only issue is when you reach that point.

Mr. Buell: So, some point in time you are going to have to replace…

Mr. Casey: At some point in time….

Mr. Buell: You’re probably going to have to replace….

Mr. Casey: In that fifteen years, according to the testimony you had from the architect last time…yes, at some point in time, that equipment has extended its useful life, so you’re going to be into a replacement mode. That’s not necessarily saying it’s now, but at some…you know, over that timeframe, you’re going to be doing that.

President Greenbaum: Any other questions? Bob, it was always my prospective, even though I have made it quite clear that I support Mount Olive Child Care and the use of that building, it was always my point that it would be a wash to the township, and that’s why I…..and that is why I decided that Mount Olive Child Care was a good choice for that building to the extent that the township would have to cover costs, even in year one, to be made up in year 16 through 24, I don’t believe is acceptable, from my perspective and I would be in favor of a proposal which, from day one, does not effect the township in any fashion. We are, in essence, bending over backwards for this organization, which does great work, none of us in any way don’t support the work that the Mount Olive Child Care does, but…you know, we’re doing a lot for this organization. They’re helping us out with the building, but I believe that, you know, to the extent that there’s a benefit in year 16 through 24, they should get the benefit of…if it goes out that far, they should get the benefit of a reduction, but they should carry all carrying costs from day one. Anyone else? Colleen.

Ms. Labow: Can we hear from the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center if they could afford to pay this amount per month?

President Greenbaum: Absolutely. Barbara, Gail…

Barbara Melveger, Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center: To address that, one of the reasons we had asked that it be spaced out over a 20 or 25 year period, preferably 25, is that we would not be able to afford it, if it had to be done in a 15 year period. We could afford the 20 or the 25 year payout, but not the 15. Did you want to add anything Gail?

Gail Reuther: No, I mean, I agree with you, I think the 20 would probably be acceptable considering, you know, what we’re paying now as rental and given the additional children that would be served, I would think that the 20 is the best we would do. The 15 would be very difficult, very difficult.

Mrs. Melveger: Impossible, I would say.

Mr. Casey: If I might, one of the alternates that, you know, once you make a policy decision, if you want to say 15, it may be possible to structure that debt so that it basically is not even. Obviously, you can start off on a lower rate, you know, but you’re going to have higher payments in, you know, whatever that is. So, it would be possible within that 15 year frame to come up with a different debt payment schedule to allow you to phase into that, but….you know, obviously, you’re going to end up paying the same amount, the only question is how you want to chew it, all at once, or in small pieces towards the end.

Mrs. Melveger: We understand that.

Mr. Casey: I mean, that’s an option available to the governing body. If they feel….if you feel that you can support, Gail…you were saying, you know the $70,000 range, as a starting basis in there, you could start at that level, but it’s going to have to be at the half way point, you may be able to, you know, make up the difference. So, we can have…we can work on a schedule like that and get back to you and see if it fits in with your cash flow basis, if that is agreeable to the governing body.

President Greenbaum: Well, I would like to hear from the rest of the governing body on their position. Mr. Mund.

Mr. Mund: Well, I think a 15 year payout schedule, so that the township doesn’t have any expenses, is critical. I also seem to remember that, at one point, the township went out, when the Child Care wanted land, and offered to public the choice…of the township of giving them land and the township voted down that issue. So, I’m very concerned that what we’re doing, even if it is, is a good thing for the Child Care, which is a very good program, but I’m not sure if we were to spend additional money from the township, it would be in the township’s best interest. So, I think the 15 year payout is…

Mrs. Melveger: Can I just remind everybody about the amount of money that we bring into the township that goes directly to the citizens of Mount Olive Township? You need to keep that in mind. When you do think about the Mount Olive Child Care Center and, you know, helping, as you say, and we certainly appreciate all the help, but we bring in quite a bit of money that goes as direct service to the citizens of Mount Olive Township to the tune of….how many thousands of dollars? $300,000 currently, and it will be more in the near future. It will be considerably more, we just can’t announce it yet.

Mr. Guenther: Barbara, explain what you mean by that…the money that’s brought into the township….I don’t understand your point.

Mrs. Melveger: All of the dollars that we bring in, go toward providing the service….

Mr. Guenther: What do you mean, excuse me, that you….

Mrs. Melveger: And helping our clients to afford the service, it goes to direct subsidies to them so that they can afford the child care.

Mr. Guenther: What are you saying…what do you mean by bringing in? Is this money that’s donated to you?

Mrs. Melveger: This is United Way money, State money, Federal money….

Mr. Guenther: Oh, I see…okay.

Mrs. Melveger: Family Friendly grant money, all sorts of….Dodge Foundation money, all of the grant money, the parent program….all the money that we bring in, goes directly to the citizens of Mount Olive Township.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, alright, I understand.

Ms. Labow: I believe that the State has a mandated program where the Board of Ed of the townships have to provide a before-care and after-care program, is that correct?

Mrs. Melveger: I’m sorry.

Ms. Labow: The State has mandated a program where the school system has to have before and after-care for the children, a lock-key program, latch-key – is that what it’s called? For instance, if you’re….

Mrs. Melveger: I’m not aware of that.

Ms. Labow: It’s not State mandated?

Mrs. Melveger: I’m not sure that it is.

Mrs. Reuther: I’m not sure of that, no…

Ms. Labow: That’s why….obviously, because you guys would know if that was true or not, but the before and the after-care program, if you weren’t providing that for the schools, the school system…would they have to provide that?

Mrs. Melveger: I don’t think it’s mandated, but they certainly would give it very strong consideration.

Ms. Labow: And how many families does your….

Mrs. Melveger: We serve….well, in the before and after-school program, currently it’s 250 children.

Ms. Labow: 250 children, so…

Mrs. Melveger: That’s currently. That will be expanding, however, greatly.

Ms. Labow: That’s going to what? It’s going to expand?

Mrs. Melveger: Yes.

Ms. Labow: Because of all the new enrollments we’re having?

Mrs. Melveger: Yes.

Ms. Labow: So, if we didn’t offer that program and there’s all these people that have no place to bring their children before and after, and if the school were to provide to put that in, then that cost would be spread out throughout all the taxpayers, instead of the people who are using it.

Mrs. Melveger: That’s correct.

Mr. Mund: They wouldn’t be required to put it in.

Ms. Labow: It might not be required to, but you have all these people who have before and after-care needs for their children. I know there’s a lot of…..

President Greenbaum: Mr. Guenther, your position?

Mr. Guenther: I essentially agree with you, Mr. President, that….you know, I thought it was going to be, you know, a zero impact on the taxpayers. I know they do wonderful work and they provide a very necessary service for people that can’t afford it somewhere else, but it’s just….that was always my impression, so I think I have to go along with you.

President Greenbaum: I just always thought that that was the selling point.

Mr. Guenther: Yes.

President Greenbaum: Was that it was….and, ultimately, it would be a wash at the end of year 25, but the taxpayers of Mount Olive, for years 1 through 16, or 1 through 15, I guess 1 through 15 would be carrying a portion of the carrying costs and so that is an expense to the township, because….I guess, just the….having to carry it is an expense in and of itself. Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: Yes, I agree with what you’re saying, but we’re also going to have a building, they’re going to put in new plumbing and HVAC. They’re going to change out the electrical, which is a significant portion of this $1.1 million, which we would have to do at some point in time during this period of time, and I think that should be deducted from what we’re looking at here in terms of paying this thing off, or making it as a pay-as-you go kind of a situation. So, I just quickly looked at it, it looks at about $430,000 or $440,000 of this $1.1 million is going for things for improvements to that building, so I would think that if we deducted that off of that payment…or off of this process and then built it over a 15 year period…..

President Greenbaum: You know what, it’s a good point you’re making, but it goes against everything that we had discussed for the reason for Mount Olive Child Care taking that building. Mr. Casey, am I correct in assuming that, to the extent that we went to a 25 year or 20 year lease payment and the township was carrying costs, that it would actually increase our budget next year?

Mr. Casey: Yes, because you would be paying out $98,000 and receiving in $73,058…whatever the number is. So, you would have a direct impact of $40,000 on your budget.

Mayor De La Roche: For 16 years.

President Greenbaum: For 16 years.

Mr. Casey: Yes, I mean, the only alternate route, as I said, would be to change the pay-out schedule, but still keep it over a 15 year period, so they could, hopefully, correspond better with their cash flow. Now, we can work a schedule out and see if they think they can match that.

Mrs. Melveger: Might I point out one other thing that may help in this? You’re talking about the difference of about $25,000 / $27,000 a year, am I correct?

Mr. Casey: If you could stay at the $73,000? Between the $73,000 and the $98,000?

Mrs. Melveger: Yes.

Mr. Casey: Yes, $25,000.

Mrs. Melveger: Yes, okay. You were donating to the township, on an… the Mount Olive Child Care Center, on an annual basis, about $27,000 to $30,000, which you will no longer be doing. Might that not be considered?

President Greenbaum: Barbara, again, you know how I feel about Mount Olive Child Care taking that building, that was one of the considerations that was a selling point in terms of going down this road, that it was a win-win-win, that we were going to….

Mrs. Melveger: I think it still is.

President Greenbaum: Bring back money in. I understand that. That we were going to bring back money, it was always my thought that whatever debt service that we provided to Mount Olive Child Care would not carry any carrying costs to the township. In essence, we are now increasing our budget from this year by $25,000 for next year, for 15 years and we don’t see any money back for….until years 16 through 25. I’m just a little troubled by that. I want you guys to have that building, I fought very hard to get you guys into that building, but I have a hard time selling it…..

Mrs. Melveger: Well, the $27,000 a year that would have been donated to us will no longer be donated to us on an annual basis for all that time. So, that might make up that difference.

President Greenbaum: I don’t see it that way.

Mrs. Melveger: I’m sorry you don’t.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else? Colleen.

Ms. Labow: So you’re saying if they don’t get the building, we’re still going to give them….we’ll give them $27,000?

President Greenbaum: I’m not saying that at all.

Ms. Labow: So we’ll…and they’re not going to get any money.

President Greenbaum: We’re giving them the building.

Ms. Labow: But we’re….

President Greenbaum: We’re leasing them the building.

Ms. Labow: But we’re saying that maybe we’re not going to…..I still am in favor…

President Greenbaum: No, we’re leasing them the building….we always had discussed finding out what the rate was going to be where the township was not going to incur costs associated with this lease. That’s what we had…that’s, at least in my mind, that’s what we had discussed, and we had also discussed that as a quid-pro-quo for giving them the building, obviously we didn’t go out and seek other groups who might have paid a higher rent for the building, we said we’re going to cut your payment, but we’re going to move that building in your direction because of the great work that you do, we’re going to….and because you are helping the township out, I mean, Mr. Buell’s points are valid that, in fact, we can’t afford not to have this building occupied by some entity…

Ms. Labow: And not us.

President Greenbaum: But in my mind, the entity which is going to take this building has to be able to carry the costs of the building, whether it’s through private funding, or whether or not it’s through us funding on behalf of Mount Olive Child Care. In my mind, it was always that the carrying costs would be covered on a yearly basis, and that’s how the rent would be derived. Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Guenther: The question I had is the ordinance says that it’s for the expansion…for the renovation and expansion, yet the e-mail that was sent on May 25th said that you would no longer need to expand the facility, that you could live within the present…existing building.

Mr. Casey: I think they’re…..

Mr. Guenther: Am I reading something wrong here?

Mr. Casey: Yes, I think the draft ordinance John did without having the final numbers and that was just for discussion purposes. So, it’s an early draft.

Mr. Guenther: So, it does not involve the expansion of the building?

Mr. Casey: There’s no expansion of the building under their current proposal.

Mr. Guenther: Okay.

Mr. Casey: I mean, getting back, I mean, just looking at what Gary and I were talking about, I mean, if in fact, you know, approximately, if you had five years at 70, five years at 90, five years at 110, or something like that,

Mrs. Melveger: That’s typical…

Mr. Casey: You come close to being…you know, we can work something out, if you can live with those numbers, I can….we can have….we can restructure this on a phase in basis….

Mrs. Melveger: Alright, we may have to do that.

Mr. Casey: If that’s something you can all look at.

Mrs. Melveger: I think that’s what we need.

Mr. Casey: Once Council sets the policy, if Council’s policy is 15 years, let us look at what we can do within the bond laws for a phase in, then give you more exact numbers, and then you can determine whether in fact you can fit the parameters.

Mr. Melveger: Okay.

Mr. Higgins: The only other thing is, can we increase the down payment to lower the amount we’re going to debt, you know, the debt service?

Mrs. Melveger: What would the down payment be?

Mr. Casey: The down payment right now is 5% of $1,150,000.

Mr. Higgins: $57,500.

Mr. Casey: Yes, thank you. I couldn’t find my note.

Mr. Higgins: I mean, if you could bring up the front end, and then lower the 15 year pay-down, that would help, too…plus the interest cost would be eliminated also.

Mrs. Melveger: We could probably do that. We’ll take a look.

Mr. Casey: Okay, so the policy decision of the governing body is say the 15?

President Greenbaum: It seems to be the majority.

Mr. Casey: We’ll get together within the next three or four days, Gary and I will talk and we’ll come up with some alternate bond schedules.

Mrs. Melveger: Okay, alright.

Mr. Higgins: I mean, if you could just give us an idea of what you could think the down payment could be….

Mrs. Melveger: We’ll take a look at that and we’ll get back to you in a day or two.

Mr. Higgins: Right, once you get that back, then we’ll re-stratify the 15 and try to tie it into the….

Mrs. Melveger: That I think we can do also, so that may help us.

Mr. Casey: Okay, and any grants you get too, would help on top. Alright, let us restructure that and we’ll bring it back to you next week. Mr. Council President, we’ll have a revision back to you next week on a 15 year basis.

President Greenbaum: I’m sorry, Barbara.

Mrs. Melveger: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Thank you.

Ms. Labow: Rob,

President Greenbaum: Yes, Colleen.

Ms. Labow: I just want to say that I’m still 100% in favor of the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center taking that building, because otherwise it’s going to sit there vacant, and it’s going to rot like the old Municipal building. So, unless somebody….other entity can come forward and have a better proposal in the time that it’s going to take to finalize this, I would go with them 100%, because in the end, I think it’s in the best interest of the township to have that building occupied.

Mr. Guenther: As a counter point, Colleen, you have to remember what the Council President said…he said, you know, we always favored the Mount Olive Child Care & Learning Center. There was never a serious move or it was never publicized in any way that it was available to any other groups. We really don’t know what other demand there might be for the building.

Ms. Labow: And then when I asked the Administration to please give us a list, I was told no.

President Greenbaum: Well, that’s not, you know, that was a separate point. I don’t want to mix apples and oranges here. The bottom line is that we all want to see Mount Olive Child Care getting this building, we all appreciate and understand the great work that they do, but they need to be able to carry the cost of what they plan to do with that building. That’s the bottom line, and ultimately, from my perspective, that’s the only thing that, from my own conscience, in terms of representing the residents of Mount Olive, that’s what I need to hear. So, we’ll put that back on.

Handicapped Parking @ Library

President Greenbaum: The next item for discussion is Handicapped Parking at the Library. We had sent a letter to the Library requesting the entire Board….thank you Mr. Higgins, you’re excused.

Mr. Higgins: Thank you. There’s no excuse for me.

President Greenbaum: Let me just thank you for the fine work that you’ve done on behalf of the township throughout the course of this budget process and I appreciate your attention to the details of our discussions. Thank you.

Mr. Higgins: Thank you.

Everyone said thanks to Gary.

Mr. Mund: Now you can take your tie off and go in an un-air-conditioned car.

President Greenbaum: And Gary, one more thing, I just wanted to thank you for your diligence in terms of following the long-term debt refinancing issue, which has saved the town a considerable amount of money this year and I do appreciate that.

Mr. Higgins: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Next item for discussion, as indicated before, was the Handicapped Parking Issue at the Library. I had written a letter, on behalf of Council, requesting the Library Board appear this evening to answer questions with respect to a number of different issues. I got a letter back indicating that the invitation would be extended, but that most Library Board members probably would not be able to attend and that we were invited to the Library Board Meeting to the extent that we wanted to address the entire Board. I see that Jane is here. Did you want to speak or did you just….

Jane Israel: Oh, I thought I was…

President Greenbaum: Rita is here as well.

Ms. Labow: And Dave is here.

Mrs. Israel: Well, Jerry Sheard actually is the President and he was going to speak, but he’s been delayed at the Firehouse. We have Mr. Dave Jones who is a member and, of course, Mayor De La Roche is a member. Rita is a member, she’s not a voting member. I’d be happy to address any questions you might have at this time, if that’s what you would like.

President Greenbaum: I would like to hear from Mr. Buczynski first. I had several questions with respect to the handicapped parking, which is currently being proposed.

Mrs. Israel: Okay.

President Greenbaum: Gene, there have been discussions, at the Council level, with respect to whether or not the current handicapped parking meets code. Do you have an answer to that question? Railings have been President Greenbaum (cont’d): discussed and slopes, and it’s very hard…..

Mr. Buczynski: Yes, I guess so. I just want to refer back to a letter I wrote, I guess back on January 5th, where I said…for a temporary CO at the time, I basically said it was in general compliance, except we asked them to basically put some signage up, and also prior to issuance of CO, to revise the locations of the handicapped ramps in the parking lot, which I found out today that they have….that has been done. I have not…I did not review them, but they’re done in accordance to the locations we had before. Now, the original…..back in January, there was a letter submitted by their engineer and basically said they were in general compliance per ADA. I think there was one small section, at the time, which was close by the handicapped ramps I believe, but it was just over 5%, it was like 13 feet. I think they did…they provided…..information I think on every ten feet along the parking lot. I think they said about 13 feet was just off a little bit, it exceed 5%, which I thought they could take care of when they built the new locations of the ramps. I can’t tell you if that meets it now or not, I know Bob Casey and I spoke this afternoon, and supposedly he’s got a certification from their engineer that everything complies to the ADA requirements.

Mr. Casey: There was a site inspection this morning involving Tom Canarella….I believe his name is, who is the site engineer who did the original survey. He has provided a certification to the construction department that, in fact, it complies with ADA and for that reason, they’ve been issued their CO. So, from a technical standpoint, from what we can ascertain, they meet the minimum requirements of the ADA at this point in time.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone have any questions for Gene? Colleen.

Ms. Labow: Did our…..well, actually, in general, did our Building Inspector go over there and inspect it?

Mr. Casey: Yes.

Ms. Labow: The new ramps that they put in, where they did the cut outs, I don’t think that anyone in a self propelled wheelchair can get out of their vehicle, get up that grade, turn the corner, go another five feet, turn the corner again and get up to the Library. I do not believe that is ADA compliant and I think that there’s some… short of saying it flat out, monkey business going on here, because I don’t think that anybody could get up there in a wheelchair and I’d like to challenge any one of you guys to get a wheelchair and try and get up there yourself.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else?

Ms. Labow: Gene didn’t have a chance to look at it?

Mr. Buczynski: Well, all I can say regarding that….I’d have to get grades from their engineer regarding actual ramp and going around the first curve….before I could tell you it meets it. I based it on….my opinion on what Bob’s got a certified letter from the engineer saying it meets it, so I’m assuming…at this point, that he checked the grades and they do comply.

Ms. Labow: Can we get our own certification on that, because I don’t believe it meets it….you know, just eyeball it and to look at it, I don’t believe it meets it at all, or I can just call….or I’ll call the State and have them come in and measure it, and at that point, we’ll be fined for giving them a CO.

President Greenbaum: Well, I guess you can request, from the Administration, that they provide you with a certification from the township engineer that it, in fact, meets grade.

Ms. Labow: I want it measured out, and I want to be there when it’s measured out, too.

Mr. Buczynski: Whatever the Administration requests me to do, I’ll be glad to do it.

Ms. Labow: Mr. Casey.

Mr. Casey: You know, I think it’s time that you recognize the fact that the governing body opts, as a whole…if, in fact, the governing body wishes to make a motion requesting that, in fact, the township spend money to have Mr. Buczynski go out there and have that surveyed, put it on the floor, vote it, follow Robert’s Rules, and make a policy decision. We have a certification from an engineer that says it meets grade. If you want Gene to do it, then it takes an action of the governing body.

Mr. Buczynski: The only alternative….you have the transit instruments in-house….your in-house engineering aid can definitely take grades, and you could, even if you wanted to, you could provide me the information and I could verify it, but he could take the grades to determine the slopes himself. I believe he can.

President Greenbaum: Mr. Casey has just given us carte blanche to start spending money, so I would ask for a motion from the floor to have…..made by Mr. Buell to have Mr. Buczynski go and measure it. So, if we’re going to start taking action on our own, that’s fine, is there a second?

Mr. Buell: Well, let me…can I say something before you do that?

President Greenbaum: Yes.

Mr. Buell: I think a lot of this depends on what the Library Board is going to do about the other alternatives I’ve heard about, in terms of the handicapped parking closer to that front door, which I think is a far better solution. I don’t think we need to have money spent, if they intend to, at some point in time in the very very near future, build the handicapped parking either on the sides, or in the center by the flag pole. I think that resolves not only the technical issue, but I think it resolves the PR issue and also the access that I think the township handicapped people who use that Library need. I think, you know….

President Greenbaum: So, you want to hear from Jane?

Mr. Buell: I would love to hear from Jane.

President Greenbaum: As to what the Library intends to do?

Mr. Buell: What they’ll do.

Mr. Buczynski: Just one other thought, if I could, Council President.

President Greenbaum: Yes sir.

Mr. Buczynski: The other alternative would be, if they didn’t submit it to the town yet, is to have them submit the as-built of what was just done recently and have them submit it to me and I can review that and make sure the slopes conform.

President Greenbaum: It works for me, but let’s find out from Jane as to what the Library is planning to do.

Mrs. Israel: The Library Board, at their April meeting, authorized the current architect to go ahead with design and cost estimates on option 3 and I think that maybe you received some of that paperwork, or at least descriptions, of the three options that were given to us by Mike Hicks and the Library Board has not changed that order and, in fact, there were some erroneous statements in the newspaper, or maybe I should say the erroneous statements were due to the architect’s words. You know, I maybe shouldn’t blame the newspaper, but option 3, which is the….when we voted to go with, shows two spots on either sides, two spots on both sides I should say, of the grassy area on the sides of the loop road. The loop road is really something that is a fire lane, it’s an emergency lane, we cannot go into that lane as far as putting any kind of handicapped spots there, but certainly we can do something more than the spots that we have presently. We now have the four spots that Mr. Buczynski and Mr. Canarana….you said it right before..Canarella…had talked about in January and they are installed and, you know, approved, so we have our CO, but that doesn’t mean that it’s the end of it, because we have been, you know, getting a lot of criticism for our handicapped access at the Library, criticism that, warranted or not, is something that we don’t want. You know, we’re a public….and we would like to be able to, you know, avoid any public confrontations on that. So, as far as the Library Board is concerned, we are going ahead with at least two, maybe four, additional handicapped spots. Now, for that…just for your information, for that particular building, for the number of spots we have, we’re only required to have three spots, and right now we have four, and what I’m thinking of is to have six in the end, because I would like to put at least two on the grassy area on the side, although, you know, we are…..which would be under the bid threshold, although we haven’t gotten the final written cost estimate yet.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else from Council? Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: When would that….when would you propose that those be built, or do you have any idea…those two additional spots?

Mrs. Israel: Well, I would think it would be done this year, because we’re waiting for the information… anytime, and we’re….now that we have our CO, and the building is going to be turned over to us by Blackstone, because, you know, all along, all during this….the past six months, it’s really been Blackstone’s because they were still working on it. So, once we have the ownership, then we can go ahead and do something that we want to do and….as far as the handicapped is concerned, and we’ve….the Board has already voted on the four additional spots, two on each side…on the grassy area….I don’t know why this doesn’t…..any change to that would take another Board vote, you know, so we’d have to go back, but….

Mr. Buell: But you intend to do those two or four spots at some time in the near future?

Mrs. Israel: Yes, ASAP and, of course, we do have money, you know, left in the bond to do that, if it falls, you know, within the bonding….within the rules of the bond. I don’t know why it wouldn’t, but I don’t know, you know, you never know what somebody’s going to come up with and say well, you didn’t have six spots in the original, you know, thing, so maybe that would be a technicality, I don’t know.

President Greenbaum: Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, I don’t understand the conversation about within the bidding threshold and that type of thing, because you always have field changes and if there’s a….if something doesn’t work and you find, you know, you find that all the time, as long as you don’t increase the contract for that line item over a certain percentage, you’re allowed to do that, as long as the contract hasn’t been closed out, there’s money within the bond. I don’t think that’s really an issue. I don’t know why it would cost a heck of a lot of money but, you know, almost everything we do…I’m not saying you, anything we do ends up costing. So, I don’t understand why we’re even concerned about it, you do a change order. This is something, if it’s going to be for access, something that is necessary for safety, you don’t have to go and do a separate bid on it.

Mrs. Israel: Our dealings with Blackstone and the Surety Company and the architect are in the hands of the construction attorney at this time.

Mr. Rattner: Oh, that explains a lot.

Mrs. Israel: So, it really….we’re trying to get finished, you know, we’re trying to get finished with Blackstone.

Mr. Rattner: Okay, I just didn’t understand all the other conversations. Okay, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Okay, anyone else? Colleen.

Ms. Labow: Jane, first of all, I just want to clarify it was option #1 that the Board voted on, not 3. Three was the one that the architect thought was going to be….

Mrs. Israel: I’m sorry if I said the wrong thing.

Mr. Labow: Yes, that’s okay, just….anybody who has that paperwork, I don’t want them to misunderstand that.

Mrs. Israel: Sorry.

Ms. Labow: The other thing I wanted to know, I was concerned about the article that was written in the Daily Record where the architect was contacted and said that they were told by the Librarian, Rita Hilbert, not to even begin the design work until after they got the CO. Do you have that letter?

Mrs. Israel: Well, there was no letter and there was no statement of that kind made to the architect, and that is a mistake and I called him on it the next day.

Ms. Labow: How did they know to even begin work…or even consider work on option 1? It was a phone call, or a fax?

Mrs. Israel: Oh no, no. That was an e-mail.

Ms. Labow: An e-mail?

Mrs. Israel: Yes. I didn’t you see you here, Jerry, did you want to take over? No, okay, because he’s the President.

President Greenbaum: And he’s probably happier having you standing up there.

Ms. Labow: The one thing that I want to say is that even if there are two more spots, or four more spots, depending on…that are going to go closer to the building, it still doesn’t eliminate the issue of the cut-outs that they just did that are very very steep. I really don’t see how a handicapped person could maneuver that section without the railing and the area where it goes beyond the 5%, my understanding is it’s 13 feet, and there’s supposed to be a railing, there’s not a railing. I don’t know why the CO was issued if a railing wasn’t put up and I….if anybody wants to go over there and look at that section that they cut out and just try to even walk from the parking….get out of your vehicle and try to walk from the parking lot, up that ramp, make that turn, make the other turn and try to get to the building. I honestly cannot see how that could possibly be ADA compliant, so I’d like to see proof.

President Greenbaum: Well, they have an engineer certification, so….

Ms. Labow: That doesn’t…

President Greenbaum: They have an engineer certification. Until we have something different, that’s going to suffice, because it was enough to….the engineer puts his license on the line that it’s ADA compliant.

Ms. Labow: And what does our Building Code Official do?

President Greenbaum: Our Building Code Official probably relies upon the certification from the engineer as per State guidelines.

Mr. Rattner: If it looks reasonable, you take the license, because that’s what’s actually dictating what’s going on. If we didn’t do that, we would never have anything, or we’d have to redo everything.

President Greenbaum: See, to me, it’s not the number of spots which is the critical issue here, and as I heard Jane talking about, you know, adding two more spots, which I think is great, but if none of them are accessible to the people who need them, then what is the sense of doing it? I don’t really have a true picture of what is going on over at the Library physically. I mean, I don’t….I can’t tell you where the spots are, the cut-outs are, I don’t know, but the sense that I’m getting from, you know, the residents who are most concerned about this is that the fixes have not resolved the problems and the hesitancy, and while I heard you talking about it being a fire lane in front of the building, it’s only a fire lane because the plans were changed in the beginning to reflect, I guess, the vision of the Board…the Library Board as to what the Library should look like. To me, the critical issue here is getting those spots as close to the building, and as accessible to the building as is possible, irrespective of how that is going to effect the visual aspects of coming into the Library. The question I have for you, Mr. Casey, and perhaps Mr. Semrau, is once Blackstone is done at the site, that building is township property, correct?

Mr. Casey: Correct.

President Greenbaum: To the extent that the Council wanted to fix the problem at the point that Blackstone is now done, Council could then take whatever action we wanted to take to fix the problem. Until…while Blackstone is still there, the Library Board is in control of any fixes and remediation at the Library. Is that accurate?

Mr. Casey: That’s my understanding and that’s the reason why we were urging the Library Board to get their CO, to get out from under that, so that in fact you now have options to control the building. Now that the CO’s been issued, you can now, for instance, you can put only two…you know, you don’t have to worry about…you meet the technical requirements. If you want to supplement those with a couple more, fine, you can do whatever you want, at this point in time, because we’ve issued the CO, you’ve met the requirements, now you can come in and the town could do it, anybody could do it at that point.

Mrs. Israel: Well, could I say something?

President Greenbaum: Sure.

Mrs. Israel: It is true that the title of the real estate stays in the name of the township, but according to you….NJSA 40-54-25, the use and control of the real estate shall be in the Board of Trustees of the free Library, as long as it shall be used for free public Library purposes. Now, I am sure the Library would not have any objection to you putting in the handicapped spots, if that is what, you know, should be done to the building, but there is, you know, a limit and I just wanted to let you know that that is how the law reads as far as the control and use of the building.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. I was not aware of that statute and that’s the reason that I had asked the question. Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard…who wants to speak on this issue from Council? I’m sorry, Jane, did you have something else?

Mrs. Israel: Any other Library thing, I mean, I didn’t know it was going to be limited to handicapped when I came.

President Greenbaum: I believe that there were several other issues besides the handicapped parking. I don’t recall….maintenance issue.

Mr. Mund: Maintenance, maintenance schedules, what provisions are…..

Mrs. Israel: Actually, now that the building is being finished, we will now be getting the warrantees and the directions of how to use things, that we haven’t had so far. So, we expect to have to purchase certain maintenance plans, with certain things, you know, once the warrantees run out, but we don’t really know exactly, you know, what that’s going to entail. There are certain systems that need to be taken care of regularly, of course, and we’ll make sure that they’re taken care of, just as we did in the other building. At the end, we had a problem with the heating and air-conditioning, and we said we’re moving out, we even had discussions with the Administration, I know, maybe the Council, about not replacing certain heating and air-conditioning units that had gone, you know, bad, but that’s about the only thing that fell down on at the end, because we were going to be moving, and the town….as far as we know, I mean, we didn’t know what the township would end up doing with the building. There was even a spark about the Board of Education getting….perhaps buying it and tearing it down. So, I don’t know, that’s why we didn’t keep up with the heating and air-conditioning.

President Greenbaum: Lee, is that what your concern was in terms of what had happened to the old building or is it just simply on a going forward basis?

Mr. Mund: Well, basically, now it’s going forward to establish your maintenance programs, identify them, program the replacements, do the filter systems, whatever has to be done, and document that you have this program, so that you know what has to be done every year, so that you don’t let the buildings deteriorate in any way.

President Greenbaum: Is that something that the Library Board is intending on doing?

Mrs. Israel: Yes, we have a Buildings and Grounds Committee, and also we have a full-time janitor now, who has….takes care of the, you know, filters and things like that, and documents what he does and, as I say, once we get the entire information, we’ll be able to really put it in order and make sure that everything is done according to the instructions on the different systems.

Ms. Labow: How….I have a question for Mr. Casey, how is maintenance tracking being done like with this building? How do we do that here?

Mr. Casey: We have…almost all of the HVAC systems in this building are under long-term contracts. We have a company which comes in on a routine schedule and, you know, whatever the manufacturer requires, to change the filters, etc., but it’s all done by contract.

Ms. Labow: So, and ultimately, the Library building, it’s township property, and I’m wondering if….whoever keeps track of all those records now for us here, I don’t know…which department handles the…

Mr. Mund: The Buildings and Grounds.

Ms. Labow: The Buildings and Grounds, which….could they….should the Library be giving them the report so we could keep a…just a regular……not that they’re going to do anything, just that we’d have a record of it over here?

Mr. Casey: I mean, one of the issues that, you know, the town should really look at long term, is to basically combine the maintenance contracts in both buildings, you know, so the same company is coming in and doing them both, I mean there’s no point….we have a company that does this…this building, does the Senior Center, so there should be a way of reaching out and combining everything together so that we have, you know, one master contract out there.

Ms. Labow: Continuity.

Mr. Casey: And I think that’s something else that can be done once you own the building and we have an idea of what’s needed, because there’s no reason why we can’t combine those uses together.

President Greenbaum: The Library Board would have to agree with that, though, under the particular statute. The Library Board is responsible for all expenditures and operation at the site of the Library according to the statute that Jane read to us. So, to the extent that, and it makes sense, that the services can be combined, it’s almost like the Library Board is like the Board of Education in terms of the property and the way that the property is run. The only difference is that the voters of Mount Olive get to choose the school budget and we decide what the Library budget’s going to be. Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: No, I think it’s a little bit different, because the building is owned by the municipality and so I think that the municipality can require certain levels of maintenance and upkeep since they’re in our building. Yes, they’re running it, but we have, you know, and we should probably have an agreement that they have to maintain it, and I don’t have any doubt they’re not going to, but it’s really our building, and if they’re using our building, you know, running it under their own Board, that we can have certain requirements of what they have to do.

President Greenbaum: I didn’t hear that in the statute, to be quite honest with you Steve. The statute seemed pretty clear….maybe Mr. Semrau can enlighten us.

Mr. Semrau: Yes, I’ve been looking at the statute, it seems a little more….it’s not as clear as it sounds, because the statute talks about land that’s purchased essentially by the Board of Trustees and then put in the name of the municipality. So, it says the title of any real estate so purchased shall be taken in the name of the municipality and the use and control shall be in the Board of Trustees. So, to me…I can’t say that I definitely agree with the statement that it is in the control of the Library Board of Trustees at this point in time. I really have to go back and look at the actual acquisition of the land and see where this comes from. I mean, it sounds to me a lot more of what Mr. Casey and Mr. Rattner had to say, but I would be glad to go back and take a look.

Ms. Labow: Well, who owns the land?

Mr. Semrau: Because it’s the….from what I understand, the township initially had the land.

Mr. Rattner: The town purchased it as a major purchase.

Mrs. Israel: Yes and they dedicated it to….for Library use, eight acres, at a public meeting.

Mr. Casey: I don’t think there’s going to be any real difference between the township and the Library doing the maintenance facilities, if it works to everybody’s advantage.

Mrs. Israel: Yes, I mean, there’s no argument.

President Greenbaum: I understand that. We’re just talking theoretically here, in terms of something which may or may not happen, and if there is a dispute between the Library and the Council, for instance, with regard to the location of handicapped parking, we’d need to have an answer to that question as to who has the final say-so in terms of where the handicapped parking should be located.

Mr. Rattner: That’s different from maintenance and upkeep.

President Greenbaum: I’m not sure that it is.

Mr. Rattner: I would think it is.

President Greenbaum: I’m not sure…it might be. Do you think so?

Mr. Rattner: Okay you win.

Mrs. Israel: Should we stop work on our plan?

President Greenbaum: No. Right now, the building is still under contract with Blackstone.

Mrs. Israel: Yes, we have a CO, but there still is a punch list of items.

President Greenbaum: The building has not been turned over at this point in time.

Mrs. Israel: That’s right, right? The building has not yet been turned over, but we hope to have that done in the next two weeks, but I don’t know. You know how legal things are.

President Greenbaum: Yes. Alright, thank you very much. Is there anyone else who has any questions?

Mrs. Israel: We have some little….Library addition information that we made up to have available at the Library, and I’d like for each of you to have one of those, because it tells a lot about the Board, the makeup of the Board and how, you know, what the laws are and Rita has those, if she can pass them out.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Before you leave, Judy, did you have anything you wanted to say on this issue, because you’ve been very outspoken, or do you want to just wait and see how everything resolves?

Mrs. Hirky: I’ll wait.

President Greenbaum: Okay, thank you. I didn’t not want to give you an opportunity.

Questions on Bill List?

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Okay, moving on with the agenda….I guess, at this point, are there any questions on the Bill List? Mr. Casey, are you going to be fielding those tonight?

Mr. Casey: Sherry was good enough to leave the Bills over here, so if there are questions, I will thumb through them and see if I can find out whatever you want to know.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone have any questions? Mr. Rattner

Mr. Rattner: Mr. Casey, mine isn’t a big one, so you just take this and respond later in the week, and that just happens to be the Daily Record. When I looked at the backup, I couldn’t figure out why it came to $1,152 for advertising, the extensions and everything didn’t work, so something must be missing. You don’t have to answer that tonight.

Mr. Casey: Okay, thank you.

Ms. Labow: I have one question, Rob.

President Greenbaum: Yes, Colleen.

Ms. Labow: Not too much on the Bill List, but actually just to back up to the Library for a second. I had sent Sherry an e-mail, but she’s not here, I don’t know if she talked to Bob or not, the bond….we had discussed the bond money, they only want to give us $400,000, and they’re saying they want to keep 20% in case they have to return it to the State and some of the e-mails that have gone back and forth with Mr. Casey and Sherry….you know what I’m talking about…and it was determined that if money has to go back to the State, that we would send it back, that the Library was to turn over the entire grant money. Was there a resolution to that?

Mr. Casey: No, there has not been a resolution. I think that Sherry and I are of the opinion that the grant payment which was received, which was some $500,000, should have come to the town with the understanding that there was anticipated in the bond ordinance and obviously whatever was not expended and had to be returned to the State, we would return. The issue is that the Library has put it in their restricted account versus putting it in our restricted account, we feel it should be in ours. We’ll probably ask for a written opinion from our auditor and then forward it to their auditor, and see if we can get it resolved on that basis.

Ms. Labow: Okay, thank you.

Mr. Buell: Yes, just….and also not something you have to respond to right away, Bob, but check #04-2742, the Suburban Engineering. They indicated that on 4/11 they sent us an estimate letter on the DPW garage, could we have a copy of that?

Mr. Casey: That’s the one I think I gave out.

Mr. Buell: Is that the one you gave out?

Mr. Casey: That’s the one I gave you, that was the revised estimate at that….where they increased the amount based upon their….that’s where the building went from $1,050,000 to $1,150,000….that was their letter on April 11th.

Mr. Buell: Okay, so if we have it, fine.

President Greenbaum: Any other questions? Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Guenther: I noticed that the Board of Adjustment attorney had several back invoices that were paid, one was from December of last year, and then a couple other months I think more recent, I don’t have the page right in front of me now. I assume that the December….are there accrual....I mean, are there accruals made at the end of the year to cover that? Does that go into 2004 expenses, or how is that handled since it’s being paid this year?

Mr. Casey: I thought most of those came out of the escrow accounts, if so, it’s money in the escrow. If you have that number, I can check, but I thought….

Mr. Guenther: I don’t believe it was escrow, let me double check, maybe I missed it.

Mr. Casey: And he’s also dealing with some litigation, which will come out of the litigation budget, so it depends upon which one we’re looking at. I don’t see him under the escrow, so maybe it’s under general legal.

Mr. Guenther: It was his monthly retainer, $675, that I remember seeing. Let me see….it should be easy to spot here.

Mr. Casey: But if it was for work done last December, we would have pulled it out of the reserve for last year, if there were funds left in the reserve account. So, I don’t think it was for work done at that point in time.

Mr. Guenther: Oh, okay, so it would have been reserve, I mean, it doesn’t impact this year’s….

Mr. Casey: No, assuming there was money left in last year’s budget, so we would have taken it out of the reserve account.

Ms. Labow: It’s on page 14, Bernie.

Mr. Casey: 14?

Ms. Labow: Yes.

Mr. Casey: You’re looking at the retainer…the December fee, which was $675. If you look at that one carefully, that’s pulled out of the 74….excuse me, the 90…the 2004 budget….I was only 30 years off. That was pulled out of the 2004 budget.

Mr. Guenther: Okay. I also saw a reimbursement here for a mailbox at $229….is that kind of a normal amount?

Mr. Casey: No. I’m about to bring up, before the governing body, my “Thou shalt not replace mailbox” ordinances. This was a bronze mailbox that we took out and it cost us $270 some odd bucks for replacing that one and we had one other earlier this year that ran $300 that was also a brass or something like that. I seriously have put in place in three other jurisdictions, ordinances that said that mailboxes are on the right of way, under the basis….at the risk of the property owner and that if we damage them, we’ll replace them with a standard, you know, wood post and mailbox routine. That’s what Roxbury has, that’s what three other locations that I’ve been in, because of this issue. Some people are creating rather expensive mailboxes out front which, if you hit Mr. Casey (cont’d) them with a truck or you roll a heavy piece of snow into them, break just like any other one, but that was one of them, I saw that one too, cast.

Ms. Labow: Was it…is it to get the standard or a monetary compensation for it?

Mr. Casey: Right now what we do is we basically replace it with kind, unless the guy is totally off the deep end, but I really think you may want to establish some standards as to what we would allow in the right of way and what we would allow for replacement costs.

President Greenbaum: Can we keep it to the Bill List right now, to the Questions on the Bill List rather than policy decisions on an ordinance which we may….?

Ms. Labow: Okay.

President Greenbaum: Are there any other questions on the Bill List?


May 24, 2005 Present: Mr. Buell, Mrs. Labow, Mr. Mund, Mr. Guenther (7:31), Mr. Rattner,
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Greenbaum
Absent: None

President Greenbaum: Next item for discussion are letters from….I’m sorry, Approval of Minutes of Previous Meetings, May 24, 2005. Mr. Buell, can you please move those Minutes?

Mr. Buell: I move for the approval of the Minutes of the meeting of May 24th, 2005.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Any discussion, deletions comments? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously



1. Letter received May 23, 2005, from VAG Corporation regarding the lifting of the “Special Condition” on the liquor license.

2. E-mail received May 25, 2005, from William Lockwood regarding $5.00 field fee.

3. E-mail received May 25, 2005, from Colleen Newman regarding the $5.00 Facilitation Fee.

4. E-mail received May 25, 2005, from Gregg and Diane Griff regarding $5.00 field fee.

5. E-mail received May 25, 2005, from Sean Ryder, River Road regarding $5.00 field fee.

6. E-mail received May 25, 2005, from Stephen Liska regarding $5.00 field fee.

7. E-mail received May 25, 2005, from Sheri DiBernard, Stedwick Drive regarding $5.00 field fee.

8. E-mail received May 26, 2005, from Lisa Farley, regarding $5.00 facility fee.

9. E-mail received May 26, 2005, from Dean Murphy regarding $5.00 filed fee.

10. E-mail received May 27, 2005, from Bob Shannon regarding $5.00 field fee.

11. Fax received May 27, 2005, from New Jersey Highlands Council regarding the next meeting of the Highland Council.

12. E-mail received May 31, 2005, from Greg Brand, Cathy Lane regarding $5.00 field fee.

13. Public Notice received May 31, 2005, from New Jersey Highlands Council regarding Public input on the Department of Environmental Protection’s Highlands Rules on June 1, 2005.

14. E-mail received June 2, 2005, from Christine Priest, Budd Lake regarding $5.00 field fee.

15. Letter received June 3, 2005, from Mount Olive Public Library regarding Council and Library meeting to discuss various issues.

16. Letter received June 10, 2005, from Reza Hashemi regarding 97 Sandshore Road and marina lot.


17. Resolution received May 23, 2005, from Township of Hanover regarding Board of Chosen Freeholders to Release and Return Surplus Funds to All Morris County Municipalities.

18. Notice of Hearing received May 23, 2005, from Washington Township Board of Adjustment regarding Application of Joseph Goncalves.

19. Letter received May 26, 2005, from William Agnellino, Mayor of East Hanover regarding Columbus Day Parade.

20. Resolution received May 31, 2005, from Township of Montville regarding Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders return Surplus Funds to local Municipalities.

21. Ordinance received June 3, 2005, from Allamuchy Township regarding Land Use.

22. Notice of Hearing received June 3, 2005, from Borough of Stanhope regarding Land Use Ordinance.

23. Notice of Public Hearing received June 10, 2005, from the Department of Law and Public Safety regarding Legalized Games of Chance Control Commission.


24. Letter received May 23, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Transportation regarding Title 39 with various Traffic Regulations at the ITC Crossing Complex (Phase I).

25. Letter received May 23, 2005, from Environmental Technology Inc. regarding Request for Letter of Interpretation Applicant: Bilinkas Companies Block 4100, Lot 33 (179-185 Route 46 East).

26. Letter received May 25, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding 110 Mount Olive Road, Incident number 05-05-13-0953-07.

27. Letter received May 25, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Deficiency Letter for Two Separate Highlands Resource Area Determinations Block 402; Lot 5 and Lot 2. Applicant Givaudan Fragrances (204 & 310 Waterloo Valley Road).

28. Letter received May 26, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Leon I. Gruber / Gruber at Mount Olive Lot 24, Block 7702 (333 Route 46) regarding Agency Determination: Highlands Act – Not Exempt, Upper Raritan Water Quality Management Plan – Inconsistent.

29. Letter received May 26, 2005, from Glasson Environmental Services regarding property at Flanders Road, Block 7600, Lot 3 Applicant: Mr. Anthony Guidi regarding application for general permit authorization.

30. Letter received May 27, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Marfon Business Park, Block 8300, Lot 6 (248 Sandshore Road) Agency Determination: Highlands Act – Exempt Water Quality Management Plan – Consistent.

31. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Lakeview Estates.

32. Letter received May 31, 2005, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval Oak Hill I Section II, Mount Olive Township.

33. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Woodfield at Mount Olive, Section II-B.

34. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Oak Hill I / Section III at Mount Olive.

35. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Woodfield at Mount Olive, Section IIC, Mount Olive Twp.

36. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Woodfield at Mount Olive, Sections IIA, IIC, IIIA.

37. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Paragon Village, Mount Olive Township.

38. Letter received May 31, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Oak Hill II at Mount Olive.

39. Letter received June 2, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Shell Service Station (285 Route 206, Flanders) Underground Storage Tank Piping Closure Report received March 8, 2005, and Remedial Investigation Report received March 8, 2005.

40. Letter received June 3, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Transportation regarding Transportation Enhancement Program.

41. Letter received June 6, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Hackettstown MUA Application number 5145.

42. Letter received June 7, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Facility, Woodfield at Mount Olive, Section III-B.

43. Letter received June 7, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Woodfield at Mount Olive, Section III-C.

44. Letter received June 7, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Modification of a Recycling Center General Approval for Class B/C Recycling Center, Morris County Recycling Center Block 400,401 Lot 4 (Waterlooo Road).

45. Letter received June 8, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Letter of Record of Meeting Regarding Application for Highlands Preservation Area Approval Applicant: Tariq Mahmood Block 5300, Lot 16 (226 Route 206).

46. Letter received June 8, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval Permit No. 04-0106, Woodfield at Mount Olive, Section III-A.

47. Letter received June 9, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Treatment Works Approval, Rachel Manor Estates, Mount Olive Township.

48. Letter received June 9, 2005, from J. Edward Palmer regarding Gruendyke Mill Dam Removal and Riparian Corridor Restoration in the Watershed of, and within the Musconetcong River – Town of Hackettstown.

49. Letter received June 10, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Letter of Interpretation – Line Verification, Applicant: The Rockefeller Group Block 104, Lots 2 & 4 and Block 107 Lot 3.


50. Letter received May 25, 2005, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding League Seminar Summit / “The Status of Verizon System – Wide Video Telecommunications Franchise.”

51. Letter received May 27, 2005, from Morris County League of Municipalities regarding Buffet at the Meadow Wood Manor / Program: Morris County Diversity Traveling Team.

52. Mayors Fax Advisory received May 31, 2005, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding June 16th Rally for Constitutional Convention.

53. Letter received June 3, 2005, from New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding the League’s 90th Annual Conference / Hotel Reservation Information.


54. Letter received May 23, 2005, from Hackettstown MUA regarding HMUA Water / Sewer.

55. Minutes received June 3, 2005, from Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding May 11, 2005 meeting.

56. Letter received June 6, 2005, from Musconetcong Sewerage Authority regarding the MSA Audit.


57. Letter received May 23, 2005, from Comcast regarding local cable television franchising benefits.

58. Fax received June 3, 2005, from Cabelvision regarding statewide franchising legislation.

59. Letter received June 6, 2005, from New Jersey Natural Gas regarding Transition Commercial and Industrial Customers from Periodic BGSS Pricing.


60. Letter received May 25, 2005, from State of New Jersey, Department of Community Affairs regarding the latest edition of the Residential Site Improvement Standards.

61. Notice received May 31, 2005, from PMK Group regarding New Jersey Stormwater Pollution Prevention Planning Train the Trainer Workshop.

62. Letter received June 10, 2005, from the Office of the Morris County Clerk regarding Edward J. Dennerlein filing an Independent Petition for Township Council for the General Election – 2005.


63. Letter received May 20, 2005, from Assemblyman Alex DeCroce regarding Property Tax reform.

64. Letter received June 1, 2005, from Senator Lautenberg regarding long term funding of the nation’s highways and infrastructure.

65. Letter received June 1, 2005, from Senator Lautenberg regarding support for Picatinny Arsenal.

66. E-mail received June 9, 2005, from Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen regarding E-Newsletter Update.

President Greenbaum: Letters, correspondence from residents/organizations. There are 66 pieces of correspondence on the amended agenda. Does anyone have any comment on any one particular piece? Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: I’m going to have one, it’s just a whole group to the DOT/DEP. We got about, I guess, fifteen to eighteen of them just telling different developers or different people who had approvals that their approvals have been basically cancelled. Now I don’t think, before everybody gets excited, that that’s what they’re saying…they’re saying they haven’t heard anything, because I would imagine, if they got all their approvals prior to the dates, they’re probably still active, right, Mr. Semrau?

Mr. Semrau: Until October of this year.

Mr. Rattner: See, all of these things….each letter was pretty much the same. We have it that you had an approval to get, you know, to do this, we gave you approval in 2001, we haven’t heard from you, it hasn’t been…unless you can prove it’s been completed, you can’t do anymore, but that would go in conflict to both the Highlands and some of the wastewater rules that if you had the approvals before certain dates, you’re still okay and you’re protected for a certain length of time, right? So, it’s just to shake them up?

Mr. Semrau: Yes, I would agree with that.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, because I got excited….you know, you look at that and say what the heck are they doing? Can you imagine the economic loss for half built projects, but it wouldn’t be beyond the DOT…the DEP.

President Greenbaum: Any other comments on correspondence? Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: Were the….all the letters that we got for the $5.00 fees, now we’re not going to have that?

President Greenbaum: We got about ten.

Ms. Labow: Yes and we got e-mails and stuff like that, I guess it’s all included.

President Greenbaum: I think that’s all we got were e-mails.

Ms. Labow: They’re all in there, and…

Mr. Rattner: And we’ll probably get now, thank you notes back.

President Greenbaum: It would be nice if the Soccer Club would send out an appropriate e-mail that the $5.00 fee has been rescinded.

Someone from the audience: Inaudible.

President Greenbaum: Okay. Any other comments on any other correspondence?


President Greenbaum: Seeing none, we’ll move on. Ordinances for Public Hearing. The first Ordinance for Public Hearing is Ordinance #18-2005, entitled:

Ord. #18-2005 Bond Ordinance Amending Section 3(e) of Bond Ordinance Numbered 24-2003 of the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey Finally Adopted May 27, 2003 in Order to Amend the Description of the Project.

President Greenbaum: Is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on this particular ordinance? Seeing none, I will close it to the public and ask Ms. Labow to please move Ordinance #18-2005 for approval.

Ms. Labow: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #18-2005.

Mr. Guenther: It’s been moved and seconded. Council discussion? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: Ordinance #18-2005 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law. The next Ordinance for public hearing is Ordinance #19-2005, entitled:

Ord. #19-2005 Township of Mount Olive Morris County, New Jersey Calendar Year 2005 Ordinance to Exceed the Municipal Budget Cost of Living Allowance and to Establish a CAP Bank (N.J.S.A. 40A-4-45.14).

President Greenbaum: Is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on this particular ordinance? Seeing none, I’ll close it to the public and ask Mr. Mund to please move it.

Mr. Mund: I move for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #19-2005.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: Moved and seconded. Any Council discussion? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: Ordinance #19-2005 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish the notice of adoption as required by law.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING – (2nd reading July 12, 2005)

President Greenbaum: The next items for discussion are Ordinances for First Reading, second reading to be July 12, 2005. The first Ordinance #20-2005, entitled:

Ord. #20-2005 An Ordinance Making the Provisions of Subtitle One of Title 39 With Various Traffic Regulations Applicable to ITC Crossing (Phase I) and Regulating the Use of Said Roadways, Streets, Driveways and Parking Lots by Motor Vehicles.

President Greenbaum: Mr. Guenther, can you please Ordinance #20-2005 for first reading.

Mr. Guenther: I move that Ordinance #20-2005 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a meeting be held on July 12th, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance, and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of law.

Mr. Mund: Second.

President Greenbaum: Discussion? Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: I don’t know if….Mr. Casey, at that one section there by the…passed the McDonalds and then the mattress place where they have like six or seven stops signs, is that going to remain like that? Did they…

Mr. Casey: We’ll ask the Chief to come up and answer that. He’s sitting there nodding his head and we want to wake him up.

Ms. Labow: Because we had discussed this at the Planning Board a couple of weeks ago, and…..

Chief Katona: This ordinance will make those stop signs and all the signs that are in place as they are, with the plan that was submitted to the Planning Board, enforceable.

Ms. Labow: That, I understand, but….

Chief Katona: So, the ordinance doesn’t change the location or the design of the traffic flow of anything that’s in place, that’s done by the engineers before the Planning Board.

President Greenbaum: The answer to your question, Colleen, then is, if I understand it, if there needs to be a change, it’s not done by the Police Department through an action of Title 39.

Ms. Labow: No, that I understand, but we had this discussion at a Planning Board meeting, not this past….but it was two weeks before that, and AIG Baker was there for Pet Smart for their approvals for that, and the subject was brought up and Scott Van Ness had mentioned that there was some kind of problem with the State review, because there were so many stop signs at that section there, and I think Gene Buczynski was there at the time and he was going to meet with AIG Baker, and they were going to discuss having a change in that area.

Mr. Buczynski: If I could add just one thing, about a week later, Scott Van Ness and myself met with AIG Baker at that intersection….actually, in that ordinance this called for a removal of four stop signs at that intersection, and at the meeting, at that point, Mr. Van Ness felt, at this point, if he could eliminate the four stop signs, that’s all he cared for at this time, it would be fine.

Ms. Labow: Okay. So, there will be four less in the….

Mr. Buczynski: Four less stop signs, correct.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone else have any comments or discussions?

Ms. Labow: Thank you.

Mr. Rattner: I just want to comment just on that. That’s a lousy design of an intersection. The only way you’re going to correct that, look around at other shopping centers, is eliminate some of the access into that concentrated point. The only time you could probably get the developer to do that is when they come in for approval of something else. If you look at a lot of different parking lots, even Roxbury, which I always said was a bad, you know, a bad design, a learning lesson for bad design, won’t allow that many, they’ll close off….let’s say if you came from McDonalds, you wouldn’t be able to drive that way directly through, because you only have….you have what, about fifteen feet and you’re turning, you know, turning around. It’s just too many cars coming from too many different directions, but that’s really from the Planning Board, and that’s the only time you really get them to change it. You want to put more traffic in that area, correct a situation you already have, so we can accept the extra cars.

Ms. Labow: That’s why it had come up and there was….I just didn’t know if there was any kind of….we’ll see.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, but that’s a Planning Board issue.

President Greenbaum: It’s a terrible…it’s a terrible intersection right there.

Ms. Labow: We’ll have to see if taking four stop signs out is going to make it any different, I don’t know that it’s going to change….

Mr. Rattner: No….eliminate it and then you just have demolition derby.

Mr. Mund: It might make it worse….

President Greenbaum: Alright…let’s not get bogged down, I believe that, from the Council, that we agree with the Planning Board that that issue needs to be taken a look at to the extent that someone comes in for further approvals at the ITC South, it should be raised and the developer should be made to fix the problems with the traffic flow there, similar to the way that we did with the Mall at 206 at Flanders, when they wanted to build that new building, we made them redesign the entire parking lot.

Ms. Labow: Well, according to what Gene said, I guess right now their temporary solution is to take down four stop signs, so we’ll see if the flow improves.

President Greenbaum: I understand that.

Ms. Labow: Is that right, Gene?

Mr. Buczynski: What it is when you come up from, I guess, Wendy’s and you go up to where Pet Smart is going to be and where Babies R Us….that’s considered by the DOT in their ordinance, a through street. So, those four stop signs right there are being eliminated.

Ms. Labow: Okay.

President Greenbaum: I don’t think it’s going to fix the problem personally, because I’ve almost been hit there six times and it has nothing to do with the stop signs.

Mr. Rattner: Yes.

President Greenbaum: Okay, any other discussion on Ordinance #20-2005? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: Next item for discussion is Ordinance #21-2005, entitled:

Ord. #21-2005 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Repealing Certain Fees to be Charged by the Recreation Department for Programs for the Year 2005.

President Greenbaum: This relates to the budget amendments that we just made and I would ask Mr. Rattner to please move this ordinance.

Mr. Rattner: Thank you very much, Mr. President. I move that Ordinance #21-2005 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a meeting be held on July 12th, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance, and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of law.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded, any Council discussion? Mr. Mund.

Mr. Mund: Yes, it says the Ordinance shall take effect the 14th, yet we don’t have the first reading…..

President Greenbaum: It’s retroactive.

Mrs. Lashway: There is a resolution on that is related to this.

Mr. Mund: I saw that one too.

President Greenbaum: Any other comments?

Mr. Buell: What are we going to do with the money that’s already been collected?

President Greenbaum: Go into the general revenue at this point. How much money has been collected?

Mr. Casey: I don’t know, I’ll find out. I know they’ve been collecting for the beach fees. Let me find out how difficult it would be to return it, because I’m not quite sure it’s just fair to say that those of us….those who came in and paid their fees….

President Greenbaum: If it can be returned, it should be returned.

Mrs. Lashway: I spoke with Jill and I think she has a mechanism to do it and she intends to do it.

Mr. Casey: Yes, our intent would be to return it, as a matter of equity.

President Greenbaum: I agree, if it can be returned. I just thought that there would be no way to return $1.00 beach fee that was given to….

Mr. Casey: Well, no the beach fees we collected thus far have been for the season passes….

President Greenbaum: Okay, yes….

Mr. Casey: So, it hasn’t been the $1.00 on the beach. The dollar on the beach, they lost.

President Greenbaum: Yes.

Mr. Rattner: The beach hasn’t opened yet.

Mr. Casey: That’s…yes….so, we’re safe. The beach is opening, I think, this next weekend. So, it’s the people who took out the season passes, so…

President Greenbaum: And we haven’t done….we haven’t collected any of the $5.00 fees?

Mr. Buell: I’m under the understanding that they have collected some of the fees.

President Greenbaum: Well, the sports organization should be able to return those funds to the individuals who registered, correct?

Mr. Casey: I’m not sure that we’ve collected any. I’d have to find out from Jill what we’ve done.

President Greenbaum: Okay.

Mr. Mund: Jim…did we collect any, Jim?

Mr. Buell: Yes, we have, there’s no question that we’ve collected some for the Football.

President Greenbaum: What, the township has?

Mr. Casey: No.

President Greenbaum: Or the sports organizations?

Mr. Mund: The sports organizations have.

President Greenbaum: Well, hopefully the sports organizations will give it back since they made such a….such a valid and strong argument for not collecting it in the first instance.

Someone in the audience: As soon as we get the okay from Jill, we’ll send it out to them.

President Greenbaum: Good, okay. Oh, anyone else with questions on this particular ordinance?

Mr. Buell: Are you going to ask the audience?

President Greenbaum: No, this is first reading. Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Mund & Mr. Guenther voted No

Ord. #22-2005 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Lease Agreement Between the Township of Mount Olive and the Mount Olive Child Care and Learning Center, Inc.

President Greenbaum: Okay, Ordinance #22-2005 is being pulled in light of the discussions we had earlier, it’s being premature at this point in time.

Ms. Labow: Wait, is it premature or do they need this to move forward with something that they….what was it they needed some kind of okay to go forward with…..did we get that?

President Greenbaum: No, this ordinance, as written, talks about the specifics of the….

Ms. Labow: Okay, I think we did the resolution…they just needed some kind of a nod for the other things that they needed and we did that already, right? Okay.

President Greenbaum: Yes, I believe you’re correct. The next item for discussion is Ordinance #23-2005, entitled:

Ord. #23-2005 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Amending and Supplementing Section 176-13 of Article II, Vehicles in Turkey Brook Park, Entitled “Violations and Penalties.

President Greenbaum: Ms. Labow.

Ms. Labow: I move that Ordinance #23-2005 be introduced by title and passed on first reading, and that a meeting be held on July 12th, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive, New Jersey, for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said Ordinance, and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said Ordinance in accordance with the requirements of law.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded, any Council discussion? Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Guenther: Question…I’m a little bit…..I read it about five times and I think the grammar is kind of bad in this Violations and Penalties section. Any person, firm or corporation who violates any provision of this article shall be fined the sum of $50. Should a court appearance be required and a conviction thereof, be punishable… there seems to be something missing there….by one or more of the following.

Mrs. Lashway: I went over it with Officer Van Ness five times and that is the exact wording he wanted.

Mr. Guenther: Fred, what’s your opinion on it? It seems to be….I think I understand what they’re trying to communicate, but it doesn’t seem to be that clear. Plus fine should be f-i-n-e and that’s not exceeding $1,000.

Mr. Semrau: That has all the, you know, permissible limitations, you know, we did this this afternoon….

Mr. Guenther: What…so, okay, they’re fined $50.00.

Mr. Semrau: Right.

Mr. Guenther: And then in case of a court appearance….

President Greenbaum: There might be some egregious situation…in other words, a ticket could be issued by an officer for parking in an impermissible area, and that would be a $50.00 charge. To the extent that someone takes their vehicle and parks it in the middle of a soccer field and causes damage, the officer might require an appearance in court…that’s my guess.

Mr. Guenther: I just don’t think it’s grammatically correct, I mean, there’s no subject….you know, should a court appearance….I mean, it’s a separate sentence. Should a court appearance be required and upon conviction thereof, it should be punishable by…..not be punishable. It’s just…’s an incomplete sentence as far as I’m concerned. Anyway, do what you want.

Mr. Rattner: If we have to get the language better that wouldn’t be a substantive change, you can do that next time, at the public hearing.

Mrs. Lashway: Well, if you make the amendment right now, it hasn’t been….

Ms. Labow: Yes, Bernie’s right. You’re right, Bernie.

President Greenbaum: It should be changed.

Mr. Guenther: It would be punishable or something….

President Greenbaum: No, it needs greater modification than that. Well, what you really need to say is to the extent that there’s damage to property….to the extent that there’s damage to property, a court appearance will be required and upon conviction thereof, be punishable by one or more of the following.

Mr. Semrau: My recommendation would be, you know, here you’re giving the officer an, as you stated earlier, you know, depending on the incident, the latitude to require a court appearance, and then the court can use its discretion for punishment. I think it would satisfy your concern, Mr. Guenther, if it says – Should a court appearance be required, and upon a conviction thereof, it may be punishable by one or more of the following.

Mr. Guenther: I was just pointing more to the grammatical part of it, it just doesn’t seem to be a complete sentence.

Mr. Semrau: Okay, and then we’ll just correct find to the word fine f-i-n-e, and hopefully that would suffice.

President Greenbaum: Is everyone in agreement with that? Does someone want to make a motion to amend?

Mr. Mund: So moved.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and amended. Roll Call on the amendment.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: So, the ordinance has been amended accordingly, is there any further discussion on the amended ordinance for first reading? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


6. Municipal Resolution Requesting Extended Second Round Substantive Certification.

7. Resolution Authorizing the Submission of a Grant Application for 2006 by MOMAC.

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive “Goose and the Gander.”

9. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive to Cancel Taxes on Block 8800, Lot 36 Located at 24 Mine Hill Road.

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Technica Inc. for Electrical Services Performed by a NJ Licensed Electrician.

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Reducing the Number of EDU’s Assigned to Block 3305 Lot 14 from 6 to 2 EDU’s and the Sewer Assessment and User Fees (Tartell).

12. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Acquisition of Block 3700, Lots 42.01 and 20.

13. Resolution of the Township of Mount Olive to Cancel Taxes and Sewer Usage Charges on Block 4500 Lot 34.

14. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Recreation Fees (Ord. #21-2005.

President Greenbaum: Next item for discussion is the Consent Resolutions Agenda. Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial. Does anyone wish to have anyone of the items listed on the Consent Resolutions Agenda pulled and put on the Non-Consent Resolutions Agenda?

Mr. Rattner: Wait, I just want to make sure…we’re starting with number 6 on the Consent Resolutions, right?

Mrs. Lashway: That’s correct.

Ms. Labow: Why is that?

Mr. Rattner: Because we had them in the beginning.

Ms. Labow: Oh, okay, the ones at the beginning. Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Right. Does anyone wish to have any of them pulled?

Mr. Guenther: Well, I have a question here. I see, in the packet of resolutions, a resolution that doesn’t seem to be detailed in there. I still wish, when they put the resolutions in, that they somehow can be numbered, so we can refer to them. Here’s one that says about the Drug Abuse Program…now, where does that appear among the resolutions that we’re…..

Mrs. Lashway: MOMAC, number 7.

Ms. Labow: MOMAC is just for the drug…..

Mrs. Lashway: Number 7.

Mr. Guenther: You see, I always have a…..and then the title here says Mount Olive Goose and Gander, I mean, what the hell is that about? Come on….

Mrs. Lashway: That was the one you requested. That was the one you requested from the Borough of Wharton.

Mr. Guenther: Oh. Yes, but to put that title up?

Mr. Mund: That’s the title on the…..

Mrs. Lashway: I didn’t have the authority to change it. Everybody else who’s doing it is putting that on there.

President Greenbaum: Bernie, do you want me to tell you what that resolution is about?

Mr. Guenther: I know what it’s….

President Greenbaum: Are there any Consent Resolutions that anyone wants to pull? Seeing none, Mr. Buell can you please move Consent Resolutions 6 through 14.

Mr. Buell: I move Consent Resolutions 6 through 14.

Mr. Rattner: Second.


President Greenbaum: Is there anyone from the public who wishes to be heard on any of the Consent Resolutions? Mr. Tepper, please state your name and address for the record.

Russ Tepper, 2 Natures Court, Flanders, NJ: On Resolution 14, which you addressed previously in Ordinance #21-2005, there are two ordinances 21-2005 on the side table, one repeals it permanently, one says temporarily suspended. Could you clarify which one is correct?

Mrs. Lashway: There were two ordinances on the table numbered 21?

Mr. Rattner: Two resolutions.

Mr. Tepper: I picked up two copies, one of which said temporary, one of which said permanent.

Mrs. Lashway: This is an ordinance, which….

Mr. Mund: Thereby repealed.

Mrs. Lashway: And this is the resolution.

Mr. Tepper: Alright, well one contradicts and says temporary and one says….this says temporary. So, it should be consistent, I would think.

Ms. Labow: Good catch.

Mr. Semrau: Okay, what this is is we have tonight an ordinance that was introduced to repeal the attendance fees at the beach, as well as, as discussed previously, the sport association township facilitation fee. Because this won’t be adopted and published until, I believe it was August 11th, what we did was we temporarily suspended those specific fees by way of resolution tonight, because by the time this gets adopted, it’s going to be, you know, the summer is going to be almost behind us.

President Greenbaum: July 12th.

Mr. Semrau: So, the one is a resolution and it references that ordinance, and then the ordinance that established those fees was #16-2005 and it temporarily suspended those two fees in the collection thereof.

President Greenbaum: Does that answer your question?

Mr. Tepper: It effectively removes it, I mean, right now, it’s been suspended so that the agencies and associations shouldn’t be collecting it.

President Greenbaum: Yes, correct. It’s a procedural move to effect what ultimately will occur when the ordinance is ultimately adopted. Is there anyone else from the public who wishes to be heard on any of the Consent Resolutions? Yes sir, name and address for the record please.

Fred Phillips, 1 Adam Court: Item number 14. Rob, we just want clarification. We’re suspending collection of the fees…are we able to refund them or do we need direction from the Rec Department because, again, this was tied into our permit fees….our permits. This was tied into our permits, we weren’t getting our permits for the fall unless we collected the money.

President Greenbaum: The answer to the question is, until such time as the ordinance is ultimately adopted, you should not return the funds.

Mr. Phillips: Okay.

President Greenbaum: Because all that has been done is that….any funds which you have collected, you should hold.

Mr. Phillips: Right.

President Greenbaum: Until the ordinance is adopted, which negates the fee completely, permanently, at that point, you should get direction from the Rec Department in terms of what should happen to the monies that were previously collected.

Mr. Phillips: So, we’re looking at July 12th.

President Greenbaum: July 12th, but not to collect any additional fees.

Mr. Phillips: Okay. Alright, thanks.

Mr. Semrau: At that point, Council President, we may want to just have a resolution, you know, after adoption, just for clarification as to how the whole refund process would work.

Ms. Labow: Good idea.

Mr. Rattner: Okay, I just have….well, are we finished with the public, I have just a clarification on one of the resolutions.

President Greenbaum: Does anyone else from the public wish to be heard? Mr. Russell, please state your name and address for the record.

Nelson Russell, Budd Lake, NJ: Can’t you just amend resolution number 14 to authorize the return of fees already collected?

President Greenbaum: We’re not going to do that because until the body takes action in terms of actually adopting the ordinance, which repeals the $5.00 fee, that is still the law in this township with respect to recreation fees, and I don’t know what’s going to happen come day…July 12th and there’s 700 people from the public who get up here and say we want this fee, we want this fee, we want this fee, because we think that the rec…..the people who participate in recreation should….I’m not saying that’s going to happen, but we’re just keeping the status quo at this point, until it’s resolved. I don’t know what the Soccer Club’s going to send out next, so I don’t know what to expect.

Someone from the audience: We’ll be sure you get one, you’re a member in fine standing.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else from the public who wishes to be heard on any of the Consent Resolutions? Closed to the public.


President Greenbaum: Mr. Rattner, you had your hand up.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, I think resolution #11 needs another sentence or a little clarification. In the paperwork we got with the reduction of the 6 EDU’s to the 2 EDU’s, I believe it said that the person had not been paying that and is in arrears and that we we’re not going to refund anything. Here it just says that the Tax Collector and Sewer Utility are hereby authorized to reduce sewer and user fees and make necessary adjustments. I just want to make sure that we’re not giving any money back.

Mr. Casey: No, no, that’s going forward. Your policy is to go forward and not backward. They still owe us the money backwards.

Mr. Rattner: But it doesn’t say in there, because it doesn’t say anything…..because they’re already in arrears that to go forward, they have to come up to date, otherwise why would we be giving them any benefit if they haven’t paid if they already owe? I want to make sure we get paid, that’s what I’m doing.

Mr. Casey: Okay, yes, I mean, we’re not forgiving anything that they owe us, but we’re basically saying, you know, allowing, you know, their future payments will be less, but they still owe us….any payments you’ve made to us at this point in time, goes against the arrearage anyway. So, you know, you can’t make a payment on the current without paying the arrearage, so the arrearage is sitting there.

Mr. Rattner: Right, well, I just want to make sure that we don’t end up, because it didn’t say specifically in there….it just says make adjustments. I know that we have a policy, but it’s based on precedent, I don’t know if it’s really….if we ever codified that.

President Greenbaum: Are you suggesting an amendment to one of the resolutions?

Mr. Rattner: Well, if he’s saying it’s okay, I would just say that all….

President Greenbaum: I’m asking you whether or not you’re suggesting an amendment or whether or not Mr. Casey’s explanation, on the record, is sufficient for your purposes.

Mr. Rattner: I suggest that we put….before it be resolved, that all arrears are still due, immediately due.

President Greenbaum: So, there’s been a motion to amend.

Ms. Labow: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Discussion on the amendment? First of all, let me open it up to the public, is there anyone from the public who wants to be heard on the amendment? Seeing none, I close it. Any discussion from Council on the amendment? Seeing none, I close it. Roll Call.


Ms. Labow: What’s the amendment going to say? Just that it becomes….because Fred wasn’t sitting here, so…

Mr. Rattner: Where also all arrears are now immediately due.

Mr. Semrau: Okay. Is hereby reduced to 2 EDU’s and all arrears are immediately due and you did it by motion?

Mr. Rattner: Yes…..all….after where it says the 2 EDU’s, you’re putting and all arrears are immediately due.

Mr. Semrau: Yes, that’s a good clarification.

Ms. Labow: Okay. Then I vote yes.

Mr. Rattner: I mean, it’s due anyway, but this just puts it down.

Ms. Labow: Put it in writing is a good idea. Yes.

President Greenbaum: We haven’t gotten to Roll Call yet, have we?

Ms. Labow: Yes, it started.

Mr. Guenther: No, not on the amendment, no.

President Greenbaum: Not on the amended resolution.

Mr. Buell: I voted on something.

Mr. Guenther: He voted, you didn’t vote, Colleen.

President Greenbaum: We were in discussion. Roll Call.

ROLL CALL on the amendment Passed Unanimously

President Greenbaum: So it’s been, yes, you’re right, it was amended. So, now the Consent Resolutions…is everyone agreeable to all the Consent Resolutions as currently posed? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously, except Mr. Mund & Mr. Guenther voted No on #14


President Greenbaum: The next item for discussion is Motions. Ms. Labow, can you do the Raffle Applications?

1. Approval of Raffle Application #2086 for District #6 Vasa Order of America and Raffle Application #2087 for the Budd Lake First Aid and Rescue Squad.

Ms. Labow: I move for approval of Raffle application #2086, and #2087.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded, any Council discussion? Seeing none, Roll call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

2. Bill List.

Mr. Mund: Motion to approve the Bill List.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Discussion? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously


President Greenbaum: Administrative Matters, Mayor.

• Proclamation Honoring Celebrate New Jersey Month

Mayor De La Roche: Yes, I have two proclamations to read.

Office of the Mayor


Honoring Celebrate New Jersey Month

WHEREAS, since earliest times, New Jersey’s shore lines, Pine Barrens, mountains and valleys have been recognized as places of great beauty, rich in natural resources and an abundance of plant and animal species; and

WHEREAS, New Jersey was the “crossroads of the American Revolution,” having more encampments, skirmishes, headquarters, and impact on the civilian population than any other state, with Washington and his army fighting back and forth across the state for four long years, involving almost every village and hamlet in the state; and

WHEREAS, New Jersey’s illustrious history and citizens have changed the nation and the world, including such “firsts and bests” as the first state to ratify the U.S. Bill of Rights, the first railroad charter in the U.S., the nation’s first seaside resort, the first baseball game, two Tony-award winning regional theaters, and the first college football games; and

WHEREAS, life saving health care innovations were invented in New Jersey including either penicillin, early chemotherapy, cortisone, streptomycin and anti-hypertensive drugs; and

WHEREAS, New Jersey’s strength is its highly educated work force, its diversity and the resilience, ingenuity, creativity and generosity of its citizens.

NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed that I, Richard De La Roche, Mayor of Mount Olive Township do hereby proclaim, June 2005 as Celebrate New Jersey Month in Mount Olive Township.

Signed and Sealed at the Mount Olive In Witness, Whereof, I have hereunto set my
Township Municipal Building this 7th hand and caused the Great Seal of Mount
Day of June in the Year of Our Lord Olive Township to be affixed. Done at the
Two Thousand and Five. Mount Olive Township Building this 7th Day of June
In the Year of Our Lord, Two Thousand and Five.

_______________________________ ____________________________________
Lisa M. Lashway, Township Clerk Richard De La Roche, Mayor

• Proclamation for June – Myasthenia Gravis Month in Mount Olive

Office of the Mayor


Myasthenia Gravis Awareness Month

WHEREAS, Myasthenia Gravis is a neuromuscular disease striking children and adults, affecting control of voluntary muscles and afflicting several hundred of our fellow New Jerseyans; and

WHEREAS, the symptoms of this disorder include, but are not limited to, difficulty moving, breathing, swallowing, speaking and seeing; and

WHEREAS, the Myasthenia Gravis Foundation of America, Inc. is a non-profit organization founded, “to facilitate the timely diagnosis and optimal care of individuals affected by myasthenia gravis and closely related disorders, and to improve their lives through programs of patient services, public information, medical research, professional education, advocacy, and patient care”; and

WHEREAS, Myasthenia Gravis is the most common neuromuscular disorder affecting the residents of New Jersey; and

WHEREAS, it is fitting to recognize the many physicians who demonstrate an untiring effort to treat this disease and search for a cure; and

NOW THEREFORE, be it proclaimed that I, Richard De La Roche, Mayor of Mount Olive Township do hereby proclaim, June as Myasthenia Gravis Month in Mount Olive Township.

Signed and Sealed at the Mount Olive In Witness, Whereof, I have hereunto set my
Township Municipal Building this 27th hand and caused the Great Seal of the Mount
Day of May in the Year of Our Lord Olive Township to be affixed. Done at the
Two Thousand and Five. Mount Olive Township Building this 27th Day of May
In the Year of Our Lord, Two Thousand and Five.

_______________________________ ____________________________________
Lisa M. Lashway, Township Clerk Richard De La Roche, Mayor


• Appointment of Dave Kopytyra to the Recreation Advisory Committee for a 3 year unexpired term expiring 12/31/07 (advice & consent)

President Greenbaum: The next item is Old Business. Appointment of Dave Kopytyra to the Recreation Advisory Committee for a three year unexpired term expiring 12/31/07. Is there a motion?

Mr. Mund: Motion to approve the appointment of Dave Kopytyra to the Recreation Advisory Committee.

Mr. Guenther: Second.

President Greenbaum: It’s been moved and seconded. Is there any discussion? Mayor, how long has Dave lived in town? Is he a long-time resident?

Mayor De La Roche: An extensive period of time. Anyway, he’s the husband of the prior person serving and she’s been called to other service, I believe, or whatever… took her out of it.

President Greenbaum: Does he have involvement with the….

Mayer De La Roche: He was a former Garfield Policeman involved in all kinds of recreational things. I believe you got a resume, if I’m not mistaken.

Mr. Guenther: Yes.

President Greenbaum: It was a few weeks back, though, I don’t….okay, any other questions? Seeing none, Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Passed Unanimously

• Appointment of Ruth Spae to the Recreation Advisory Committee for a 3 year unexpired term expiring 12/31/07 (advice & consent)

Mr. Mund: Motion to appoint Ruth Spae to the Recreation Advisory Committee for a 3 year unexpired term expiring 12/31/07.

Mr. Rattner: Second.

President Greenbaum: Moved and seconded, any discussion? Mr. Guenther.

Mr. Guenther: The only question I have, I mean, she’s a political candidate. If she gets elected to office, the term is really only until the end of this year. It might not be the wisest thing to appoint somebody who might be taking an elective post. You know, if it were only until the end of this year, fine, to fill in that part, but I think it’s better to get somebody who has a long-term commitment.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, I think that the Council just recently made an appointment of Mr. Tepper to one of these boards, he’s also a candidate, so I see the same problem there, so I don’t think it becomes a problem until we determine who’s going to….

Ms. Labow: What Board?

Mr. Tepper: Excuse me, I’d like to speak…

President Greenbaum: No, you don’t have an opportunity to speak, you….

Mayor De La Roche: I might have misspoken, I thought I was pretty sure he was appointed.

President Greenbaum: You have an opportunity to speak at the end, Mr. Tepper, during the public portion. We don’t…..we’re going to follow our rules here. Does anyone else have any comments?

Ms. Labow: I am not in favor of voting yes for Ruth Spae due to the fact that she has not been a resident for very long, she is a candidate, it is a political appointment and also, there are many many people who have been waiting for an appointment to this Recreation Committee who have done a lot of volunteer work, have gone to the meetings and have put a lot of time and effort in hopes that they will get a position, and I just feel that it’s Ms. Labow (cont’d): wrong in any situation to put somebody on a position just for political purposes. So, I would be against this appointment.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else with any comments? Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: Very similar, the Recreation Advisory Committee will not meet until the first week in September, there really would only be one meeting, maybe two meetings this person would be a member. She’s obviously a political appointee and there are many other people that have come to the Recreation Committee, have sat in the Recreation Committee, or come to this Council and talked about recreational activities, so I cannot support this at this point in time.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else? I would just….Mayor, my recollection is that Mr. Tepper has served on the Board of Adjustment for many many years, well before he became a candidate, and he simply moved up….

Mayor De La Roche: Well, let me just clear up the record, I believe Mrs. Labow is the one who went to….was upset because she was a political candidate and was removed from the Ethics Board’s consideration by this same Council. So, I’m not too sure that….and to say that she’s a political appointment, well, almost every appointment is political. So, I’m too sure that that’s a proper…or a fair evaluation. So, I think that we have to look at that. So, we’re assuming there are no political appointments anywhere in town? Not that I’m admitting this is a political appointment. The woman is well qualified, has served society most of her career and continues to do so, maybe not necessarily in this town, but in other towns, and I believe, you know, I don’t see the difference really, if you’re service oriented and want to help people, I don’t think it matters how long you’re in town. I mean, Mr. Greenbaum himself ran for office in less….after he was here less than one year, so no one doubts his dedication to the township.

President Greenbaum: That’s not accurate, but…..

Mayor De La Roche: That’s not accurate?

President Greenbaum: No.

Mayor De La Roche: How long were you in town before you ran?

President Greenbaum: More than one year, more than two years, more than three years.

Mayor De La Roche: Oh, that’s not what I understand from your resume, but that’s fine, I have no problem.

President Greenbaum: Mr. Guenther, when were you elected to Council?

Mr. Guenther: When was I elected? Well, I was appointed first, then I was elected.

President Greenbaum: When were you elected?

Mr. Guenther: In….

President Greenbaum: 2000.

Mr. Guenther: Well, no it was….

Ms. Labow: Yes, it was 2000.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, 2000.

President Greenbaum: I was living in town for three years by the time I ran.

Mayor De La Roche: Okay. Well, I think it’s irrelevant either way, I mean, whether you’re here one year or three years is irrelevant to me.

President Greenbaum: I understand that.

Mayor De La Roche: I think you honestly…..I don’t think there’s any doubt about you’re dedication to the township and that’s the same thing with Mrs. Spae. I don’t see the difference.

President Greenbaum: I’m just trying to be accurate, that’s all, Mayor.

Mayor De La Roche: Well, so am I, that’s why I raised the issue.

President Greenbaum: Okay, well, that’s fine. Is there anyone else who has any comments? Roll Call.

ROLL CALL Mr. Buell, Ms. Labow, Mr. Guenther voted No
Mr. Mund and Mr. Ratter voted Yes
Mr. Greenbaum abstained

President Greenbaum: It fails.

Mayor De La Roche: Three each, right?

President Greenbaum: Three to two, it fails. Is there further Old Business?

Mr. Guenther: Yes. Since I see Gene Buczynski here, I would just like a quick review of Turkey Brook. He and I were up there, what, ten days ago, whenever it was, just can… know, to delay some fears or whatever is going on.

Mr. Buczynski: Well, the berm is completed, the grass is pretty much growing in some locations. He’s not finished, or stabilization, he’s been off the site. I’ve been trying to reach him the last three working days actually and I have not been able to get him, so I’m not sure what’s transpired, because he still has…..he was waiting for his paver. He has a problem with getting his small paver, one was broken down and then he was trying to call around the area to get another small paver. So, that’s been a delay to do the paving of the walks that have been cut out already. So, he has to come and do that, do a couple ramps, redo a couple ramps and also to restabilize some more in the rear, but the last heavy rains we’ve had….not that they’re long rains, but high intensity rains, there’s been no erosion in the back after they regarded and stabilized. We’ll see what happens in the future, but it seems to have rectified.

Mr. Guenther: I noticed we paid a big bill to him, or there’s a big bill for him on the Bill List.

Mr. Buczynski: Yes.

Mr. Guenther: Do we still owe him money?

Mr. Buczynski: Oh yes, that’s not 100%, that’s far from 100% at this point.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, alright. Just an observation, I just went up there with my granddaughter today, and the path leading up from Sunset was there a plan to put some bollards at the end or metal pipes? Because a car can be driven up that drive very easily.

Mr. Buczynski: I believe that’s going to be done by the Public Works Department, I think Jim Lynch would like something there, so I think they’re going to put some bollards there.

Mr. Guenther: Okay, yes, because….and at both ends, because not just….if somebody inadvertently, you know, if they were up there off the parking lot…..

Mr. Buczynski: I’d have to check and see what they decide to do, but that’s going to be done in-house, if they do something.

Mr. Guenther: Because it’s an invitation, I mean, obviously, you know, off-road bikes, I mean, they’re difficult to prevent from going up there. Also, on the old path, what was the old path, I mean, it’s been pretty well covered up in the front, but there’s a silt screen in the front, sort of partially blocking it, but there’s still an open space there that somebody could go up. I would like to recommend some sort of fencing be put there. There’s still an open portion on Sunset that could easily be accessed by somebody.

Mr. Buczynski: My suggestion on that is maybe speak to the Director of Public Works. Maybe that could just be done, not really part of the contract. I think if you’re just talking about a little bit of fence…

Mr. Guenther: No, no it was just something out of the Public Works Department. Bob, could you make note of that?

Mr. Casey: I’m not quite sure exactly where you’re referring to, though. I got the idea the bollards weren’t up, but the other indication…..

Mr. Buczynski: Yes, when I come in next time, I’ll bring Tim out there to look at it, not a big deal, alright?

Mr. Guenther: Yes, it’s the portion before that….there was an old path go through….

Mr. Buczynski: Where the old path used to be.

Mr. Guenther: Yes, the path that was supposedly temporary that was put through for the grand opening. It’s been pretty much blocked off, but there’s still a….it’s a little bit open.

Mr. Buczynski: We’ll see what he can do to block it off.

Mr. Guenther: The other thing, Bob, I noticed walking along there, it’s kind of dangerous. You walk up there to that path and there’s a curve and it’s extremely dangerous when the traffic is coming the other way out of the school and they do like to speed coming out of that school, and you cannot step off the pavement, because it’s all overgrown with poison ivy. It is a thick growth of poison ivy, so you have to….you’re forced to walk on the pavement on a very dangerous stretch of road, the curve. So, if somebody could address that and put some defoliant there and get rid of that poison ivy….

Mr. Casey: Just along the road leading to the school?

Mr. Guenther: Yes, it’s just that curve.

Mr. Casey: Okay.

Mr. Guenther: I think, you know, when Timmy or Jim go there, I mean, they’ll notice it right away.

President Greenbaum: Anything else? Colleen.

Ms. Labow: I have a….just for Gene, a few weeks back, maybe a month and a half now, Mr. Jim Smith had come up and was complaining about a runoff and claiming the Turkey Brook runoff…..storms was going right down into the lake and you and Mr. Smith were going to make arrangements to meet and resolve that issue as far as where is the water going, and did you have that meeting?

Mr. Buczynski: Well, not as far as where it’s going, but if there was another heavy rain fall that caused significant problems at the lake, he would call me, contact me, and we would go out a look at it. That has not transpired yet, because it hasn’t been a problem yet.

Ms. Labow: Were the other concerns that he had that was addressed and….

Mr. Buczynski: As far as where the water goes?

Ms. Labow: Yes.

Mr. Buczynski: From Sunset Avenue?

Ms. Labow: Yes.

Mr. Buczynski: Yes, we talked after that meeting and he agreed that the water from the area of Sunset Avenue goes into ditches, not go into Budd Lake, but goes……like I had stated that night.

Ms. Labow: Okay, good, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Gene, just one further issue while you’re standing up there….Gene and I had the opportunity to meet with a number of the residents who live along River Road and I guess Stephens Mill Road, with respect to the Rezamir property. Why don’t you just give us a brief update on that meeting?

Mr. Buczynski: Let’s see…what’s the update….we spoke to all of them regarding their concerns. They basically just wanted to stress….they want to make sure that the town didn’t think they went away. There were no major problems from what they….additional problems from what they discussed before, but they just wanted to make sure that the town was aware that they still had concerns that needed to be addressed. What we basically asked them to do is to get a contractor for each one who had a problem and felt that they needed to get certain things resolved on the site, to find out what the cost is and submit it so that something could be discussed. I think actually Mr. Greenbaum was going to try to help them to a certain point, to draft some type of letter where….to send to the developer to let him know what certain concerns are of the residents so then they can, hopefully, have some type of back and forth discussion. I spoke to Mrs. George….well actually, she e-mailed me a couple of days ago, they’re in the process of almost getting certain estimates for each property at this point, then they’ll submit them and move ahead.

President Greenbaum: That’s in terms of the damages which they claim are caused by the runoff from the Rezamir site. Gene and I also had an opportunity to take a site visit in terms of the improvements which have been done up there and they really are quite extensive in terms of what has been done on the site at this point in time. Gene, I guess….go ahead.

Mr. Buczynski: There just one other thing to report, because I’ve been trying to find out for the last couple of days from DEP, but I have not gotten a return phone call yet, relative to where they stand with reviewing the revised information from Rezamir’s engineer. I finally got some input from someone from Enforcement in the Chester office, actually from the DEP, Omland Engineering, the developer’s engineer submitted some information probably about a week and a half ago, they haven’t made a determination yet, but there was a promise from when they had the last site inspection that within fourteen days after they decided they received all the information they wanted, that they would at least make a decision on the detention basin at the end of Yarborough Court. Now, I had a discussion with Shiela Hart from Soil Conservation today, and she thought I was going to receive a phone call from someone else in the DEP from Permitting, because she said they seem to ….she got the impression from this one person at Permitting that they’re thinking of not giving them a permit to put the detention basin in at the end of Yarborough Court, which would be devastating if they decided to do that at this point. Shiela Hart told DEP you better speak to the Town Engineer because that is a big concern about downstream residents and the lady from Permitting said well, go on and make sure if there’s a concern. She said well, you better call the Town Engineer because that’s a big concern of the town. I’m waiting to get an answer from this….this lady never called me. For some reason, Permitting has taken a position that they feel they shouldn’t approve a permit now for that detention basin, which was previously approved. I don’t know if you follow me.

President Greenbaum: Before you take any action with respect to a position on that detention basin, with the DEP, you need to get direction from Council.

Mr. Buczynski: As far as removal, you mean?

President Greenbaum: As far as anything, at this point. Yes, Mr. Rattner.

Mr. Rattner: Well, you’re up there now, I might as well ask another one. A couple of months ago, we had the subject with Mr. Robinson’s property, Drakestown Road, the runoff and the County. I made the contact with the County and I know you’ve been talking to them about participating and jointly trying to correct some of the water problems there. I don’t know if it’s you or the Administration, but we did make a promise to Mr. Robinson and some of those other residents that we’d get back to them and at least keep them advised where we’re going. So, I need to know where are we going? I know the County has stepped up and is just waiting.

Mr. Buczynski: We have kept Mr. Robinson up to date right after that meeting, we let him know what was happening, it was being discussed with the County. As far as where we are with the County, I’ve had several discussions with them, I was going to try and get ahold of Bob. I just need to get some direction as far as how much I can go at this point, is there need to be monies allocated for that or where do we go at this point?

Mr. Casey: This is the same problem we looked at in 2000 and 2001, the issue of the water in the backyard.

Mr. Buczynski: Yes.

Mr. Casey: And the issue was they were going to come in at that point in time with the Mosquito Commission and put the small machine….they were going to come in and shoot some grades across it......whether in fact they could get under the culvert…under the road.

Mr. Buczynski: Well, there’s a whole different….there’s two different alternatives at this point.

Mr. Rattner: The County has basically said they’re willing, you know, they’re not willing to plead guilty to causing some additional water there, however, they’re willing to contribute to try to correct the runoff coming off Drakestown Road.

Mr. Buczynski: There’s two alternatives.

Mr. Rattner: And then there’s also the issue of the pipe that goes under Flanders-Netcong Road, that that can be improved on and, you know, just trying to figure out where to put the water. There’s water over there. They’re willing to step up, they’re not going to do it all by themselves and I think a lot of it probably can be done in-house, between the County and us.

Mr. Buczynski: They’re looking for a preliminary cost estimate and to have some engineering done on a preliminary standpoint and meet with Ed Bennett again to go over the alternatives. I just….the thought of….I just need some direction as to what can I do and can’t do regarding that. We can talk.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, and we did….other than keeping Mr. Robinson advised, we said that we were going to move forward with it. I know the County is willing to step up, they have a couple of dollars they can throw toward it, not a heck of a lot, but they’re willing to participating whether in labor, materials, that type of thing. They’re looking for the engineering.

Mr. Buczynski: I think they were looking at if either the town maybe did some preliminary….some design, that they would some other work.

Mr. Rattner: They want us to do the design, what we think it would be to fix it.

Mr. Casey: So, I’m assuming the grading has never been established in that middle sump area back there.

Mr. Buczynski: There’s two alternatives, Bob. One is to bring the water….the County is thinking of bringing the water from Drakestown Road all the way down to what’s….to what you call the Birchwood development, the development going down towards 206, to run pipes down along there. The thought was okay, you’re constrained now, we brought water…we being the County. The County says we’ll just get that water out of there and bring it down to the other end and we can discharge it in the existing drainage system. That’s one possibility, the other possibility is to work with the town and to put a drainage system in the rear of his property and then run it along that easement, and then come back along Flanders Road to the….Netcong Road, to the existing pipe. They have some fall, they can get another foot there.

Mr. Casey: Oh, there is? Okay, well, that was the issue that was unresolved a couple of years ago was whether in fact they had fall going from that sump to that area.

President Greenbaum: Thank you.

Mr. Rattner: Can we put that on for another couple of weeks, because we do owe it to the residents that we keep on top of it.

President Greenbaum: Let’s put it on for a workshop, let’s put it on….

Mr. Rattner: A month.

President Greenbaum: Yes, about a month.

Mr. Rattner: Give them some time.

President Greenbaum: Thank you.

Mr. Rattner: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Gene, are you leaving now?

Mr. Buczynski: I might.

President Greenbaum: I want to speak to you. Is there any other Old Business?


President Greenbaum: Seeing none, New Business – 2006 Mount Olive Day. Ms. Labow.

• 2006 Mount Olive Day

Ms. Labow: Yes, I’m going to ask Mr. Casey….the Kiwanis Club that I’ve been a member of for several years now is very interested in participating and volunteering, with that organization, or with the organization and anything that’s needed with the plans for a Mount Olive Day 2006, and hopefully a yearly event thereafter. It came to my attention at the last Rec Meeting, that they were advised that I was not to be given any of the communications or notes or anything regarding that and I want to know should I have somebody direct another member of the Kiwanis Club participate in this or…..

Mr. Mund: Colleen, they discussed it at the Rec Committee Meeting and they talked about the Mount Olive Day with and without fireworks and the different things and the Committee has requested the Chairman to communicate that the Rec is in favor of the event, but that the Kiwanis or any other group needs to present detailed plans for the event.

Ms. Labow: Right.

Mr. Mund: And I believe the communications have started.

Ms. Labow: Exactly, but what I was told was that I….they weren’t….nobody was allowed to give me the communication for whatever reason, so….that’s what they said at the Rec Meeting, they said that members who were there said that they were told that everybody else can have them, but they’re not to give them to Colleen.

Mr. Mund: I don’t think that was the case, Colleen. The three guys back there who are shaking their heads no and Jim is the one that sent in the letter to the Kiwanis.

Ms. Labow: No? Alright.

Mr. Rattner: Now wait a minute, we can’t start taking comments from the audience.

Mr. Mund: I didn’t take comments, I just….

Mr. Rattner: No, but you were egging him on.

Ms. Labow: Okay, so is it a go ahead yet, do we have any kind of confirmation?

Mr. Casey: Well, it usually is that….my understanding is that the, you know, a date has been established in August which is the date that the Turkey Brook’s available. They were….someone was contacting St. Elizabeth’s to see if they could rearrange their schedule and we’re waiting to see if they can respond up to it. That’s the last I heard talking to Joe two weeks ago, that we’re waiting to see if they can rearrange their carnival schedule and everything else to match that date. I haven’t heard an answer from that yet.

Ms. Labow: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Does that resolve the issue on the 2006 Mount Olive Day? Next item is the Municipal Boat Ramp. Mr. Buell.

• Municipal Boat Ramp

Mr. Buell: It really wasn’t the Municipal Boat Ramp. I’m just curious, looking at that marina behind the old Municipal building by the beach, are we doing any property maintenance on that? Have we, I mean, that is in worse shape than another property that was on Route 46 that we were…..

President Greenbaum: Bob, before you answer, Jim, we’re going to put that on actually for a workshop. Steve had raised issues related to the marina and the boat ramp which I’ve scheduled for the next workshop. I don’t know whether or not you still want to ask the question or you want to hold it until….

Mr. Casey: I don’t have an answer.

President Greenbaum: Okay. Jim, press Bob on it.

Ms. Labow: Yes but, can I….

President Greenbaum: Of course.

Ms. Labow: Thank you. Mr. Casey has sent an e-mail back and forth to Mr. Hashemi and he….the one letter we got from him stated that the property….that the township is not allowed to do anything to his property, and you had indicated that we were going to have that yellow line done, which I saw the yellow line was put in there, but the debris was not removed from the boat ramp, and the chain….

Mr. Casey: There was no debris in that boat ramp when we drew the yellow line.

Ms. Labow: Oh really? There’s a lot of debris there now.

Mr. Casey: The debris has appeared this weekend. As to where it came from, it wasn’t there when we put the yellow line down, however, I mean, that was simply to clarify the difference between Mr. Hashemi’s adjacent property and where that property line is. He has taken the position that the town doesn’t own that, although his own testimony before the Zoning Board indicates that, in fact, we do own it. The issue is partially, though, that he is correct, that is a very marginal location for any type of boat ramp. I mean, it’s just too steep, it’s too close to a building that’s…’s something that you….possibly we should have for emergency access, but I really don’t think that’s a suitable location for major boat ramp launches.

Ms. Labow: My question comes back to our…then, our attorney. What’s our liability, because if that’s not….people are going to start putting their boats in there, and Mr. Hashemi sent us a letter saying that, you know, any activity going on and so-on and so-forth. Should we have it gate….chained off or not?

President Greenbaum: Mr. Semrau will get you an answer.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, that’s why we need a workshop on it, there’s a lot of issues.

President Greenbaum: Yes, we need a workshop.

Ms. Labow: Yes, but there’s a lot of people who want to try to put boats in there now, and I don’t know if we should put…..we should put a chain up.

President Greenbaum: When was the last time somebody put a boat in off that ramp?

Ms. Labow: The other day somebody was trying to.

President Greenbaum: Really?

Mr. Rattner: Last fall, somebody took a Honda and just drove right in. It was under water for 90 minutes and when it came out, the headlights were still on.

Mr. Rattner: I ride in the rain and my taillights smoke.

Ms. Labow: You know, I’m just concerned about our liability without having a chain there, because people will try to put watercraft in there.

Mr. Rattner: You put a chain there, then you have other liability, because they’ll say it wasn’t good enough and now you’ve become the….you give people incentive to cut through. We have to have insurance.

Ms. Labow: I don’t know, with it not being blocked off, I don’t know. What do you think, Bob? Are we in a liable situation?

Mr. Casey: Well, I think the issue that was first addressed is who owns it, and I think that the documentation is fairly strong that in fact that’s a township piece of property, so we own the piece of property. As to it’s suitability for a boat ramp, I don’t think it is that suitable, because it’s too narrow, it’s a good grade, so you have to know what you’re doing to back a piece of equipment down that without losing the piece of equipment. So, Mr. Casey (cont’d): A: we own it, B: we should probably retain it for emergency purposes, but C I don’t think it’s something we should advertise and make it necessarily available for the public. I did notice, driving down there on Monday, that, in fact, someone had….the debris that was there, happened to be the same horses that Mr……was on the adjoining property the prior week that suddenly got moved over into the middle of it, so I don’t know if anybody has used it. I don’t think we should encourage its’ use, because I don’t think it’s suitable for use for that purpose.

Mr. Rattner: It’s been a commercial boat ramp for at least thirty years.

Mr. Casey: It may have been. I’m just saying it’s pretty steep and it’s….

Mr. Rattner: You can go on the Long Island Sound, you go up to New England, it’s probably just as….and they put bigger boats in.

Ms. Labow: But the point is is….

Mr. Rattner: But anyway, we can’t define it now, it’s a lot of different issues, you know, and, you know, we have to look at the liabilities and….

Ms. Labow: So, we’re not going to put a chain or a no-trespassing, we’re just going to leave it?

President Greenbaum: There is nobody who supports your position currently.

Ms. Labow: I see that.

President Greenbaum: You can bring it up again in a workshop.

Mr. Rattner: If you put a chain on and the kids decide to swing on it and fall off, then we have a liability for putting up the nuisance.

Ms. Labow: We don’t put any signage, not to be used, or we just leave it then?

President Greenbaum: You know, also there’s no support up here for not using it as a boat ramp.

Ms. Labow: Oh, I don’t mind using it for a boat ramp. I’m just saying until the issue is resolved, until we get the… know, I mean, I don’t want to be liable for something.

Mr. Rattner: We have to get exactly how much of the boat ramp we own resolved.

Ms. Labow: Alright.

Mr. Semrau: I don’t know if the concern is much as the ownership issue, based on what I’m hearing, but if it’s a safety concern….

Ms. Labow: Yes, that’s what I’m worried about.

Mr. Semrau: Then maybe, you know, we should at least consider putting up a no-trespass sign.

Ms. Labow: That’s what I’m concerned about, because the chain was there, the chain is now gone, somebody is going to move those horses, that are laying there, out of the way and try to put a boat on there and…..if something goes wrong, who’s liable?

President Greenbaum: I’m not in favor of doing anything. Is anyone else in favor of Colleen’s… her, to chain it off, or to put a sign or something, at this point?

Mr. Rattner: Once we take action, we’re going to draw attention to it and that’s what we don’t want to do.

President Greenbaum: There’s no support for it.

Ms. Labow: Okay.

• Goldmine Water System

President Greenbaum: The next item is the Goldmine Water System. Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: Yes, I talked to several residents in the last week or two and on the Goldmine water system, the water pressure has dropped to almost a trickle at least two times in the several weeks, and they think it is related to Turkey Brook.

Mr. Casey: We have a problem up there and yes, it is related to Turkey Brook. What I would like to do is if you give me….this….my….talking points, I’ll distribute my talking points and then talk from them. So, this is not a report that Council wants to reject, but this is my guidance as to the Goldmine system and I spent a lot of time today and I spent a lot of time in the last couple of weeks on this subject. So, let me just basically talk a little bit about…so everybody understands what we’re looking at, and I think the first thing, the reason I’m starting off simply is, you know, define the Goldmine system so everybody understandings what it is. There are two wells in the Goldmine system, there’s a primary and a backup, each well pumps about 25 gallons per minute. We run one well normally because it’s got good water. The second well is usable, but it takes more treatment. So, we have 87 homes on it so, you know, our potential exposure is about 30,000 gallons a day. One well can cover that without any real problem. We have a high in April of 27,000, a low of 13,000. Most of our times, we’re running about high 18,000 – 19,000 gallons a day of water, and that’s been the historical. I actually have the April for the last three years, I have April 2005, 2004 and 2003 and looked at that. The issue here is the way the system is operated. The system normally operates, as a pneumatic system, operates between 60 and 80 PSI. When the system drops below 50, the second well kicks on. So, what happens is the moment you start drawing down there, the second well kicks on, so now you’re putting 50 gallons per minute into the pneumatic tank to build the pressure back up in order to keep the system up there. So, that’s the….it’s a pneumatic…it floats off the pressure, so there will always be variation in pressure, because the way the system operates is, you know, it can vary between 75 and 50 before we kick the second well on, so there is that. We did install a secondary tank, a surface tank there. It was installed on Saturday. That was the tank I referenced to this Council that we were going….actually, you’ve had it up there for three years. You had it in 2003 and 2004 and this is the third year up there, and what it really is is a stainless steel tank on wheels 45, excuse me, 5,500 gallons that is interconnected to the underground system, so the moment the pressure drops below 40, the water in that tank feeds into the pneumatic system. It basically is a boost, to put whatever it needed in there to get the pressure back up to 50, at which point….you know, in other words, what we tried to do is that, since you can only pump 50 gallons per minute into that system, the other tank would allow you, if you had a sudden draw down on a….or there was a draw down on the system, throw whatever gallon that was needed to bring it back up to 50, at which point, your other wells would come in, in order to balance it out. That’s the concept behind the system. Turkey Brook bathrooms, the interesting point on the Turkey Brook bathrooms is that when it drops below 25 PSI, they stop working, that’s because they’re pressure flush. So, and the other interesting point is that the baseball bathroom is the highest point in the system. So, the moment we have any pressure problems in the system, the baseball bathroom goes out of service, and that’s really like a safety valve with it’s own limits. The policy that we have, just so everybody understands, is residential development is prior…is priority. If we ever run a problem up there, if we start running low, we turn those bathrooms off. We’ve done it, I’ll go through a lot….what’s happened this year, thus far, but we will literally go up there and turn the bathrooms off in order to make sure that none of the water is going to that…to those bathrooms. So, what’s happened this year, our first problem was Memorial Day weekend. Memorial Day weekend, on that Sunday, there was a major baseball tournament. In addition, there was a very active use, I understand both soccer and lacrosse, and on that afternoon, the low pressure caused the upper bathroom….we shut it off, brought in portable toilets. The lower bathroom still worked. Now, when that happens, my understanding is that there is pressure in the system. The residents…you know, we’re down to about 25 pounds as the upper limit, there is probably 30 pounds pressure out there for the normal residents, there is water in the system, they have water but they don’t have the pressure they used to have, okay? The weekend of June 4th and 5th, last weekend, no…yes….two weekends ago, excuse me, we had one call for low pressure. By the time the gentleman arrived on the scene, it was on a Sunday, by the time the guy got on the scene, the system was up to 60 pounds. So, what happened is somebody called and they called so the time of the low pressure, both pumps are going on. By the time the gentleman gets there, the pressure is built back up. So, now they have pressure again. On June 8th, this last Wednesday, a week ago, Tuesday night….late Tuesday night, the pressure reducing valve broke. We came in at 7:00 in the morning, they got a call, they went in there, they immediately went to manual override, brought the pressure back up and they replaced that gauge during the day, so on Wednesday the 8th, there was a problem due to the fact they had a mechanical failure on site where the pressure valve broke. It has since been rebuilt. This last weekend, on Saturday the 11th, we had the new tank truck delivered, so we had people there and at 2:00, when Phil left, there was 60 pounds pressure in the system. So, the system was operating, it was up to 60, things were okay. At about 4:30 / 5:00 that afternoon, the system had drawn down all the pressure. At that point in time, we actually closed the bathrooms; we left the bathrooms closed on Monday….on Sunday, because at that point in time we couldn’t, you know, we couldn’t get the pressure back up. So, we have since filled that tank. In looking at what’s happened, is the….I think the error that the township had is we should have had that tank on site before Mr. Casey (cont’d): Memorial Day. We talked about it in May, they got quotes, etc., they had a difficult time lining up a tank of the right size. So, I think the problem that the town has is not having that…..that tank is now on site. My understanding is that we have a large usage this weekend and next weekend, so it will be very interesting to see if, in fact, the impact of that extra 5,500 gallons of water, whether that allows the system to equalize itself…. equalize itself out over the….on Saturday and Sunday. In reference to Mr. Rattner’s comments about the residential connection, we have no problem serving water for residential purposes. The problem is when we have that peak flow on the weekends from Turkey Brook, yes we are having a problem keeping the pressure up at this point in time. That problem, hopefully, will obviously be resolved when the new standpipe is used, because the standpipe is sitting right there, and the main reason I made that strong recommendation to you to use it, as I indicate here, is the fact that the problem that we have with the delivery to the residential is the fact that you took water that was committed to residential purposes and put it over into Turkey Brook, and denied the developer an access to a permit which you had promised him in 1998, because you took his water and put it over in Turkey Brook. So, from a liability standpoint, I say then…I say now, you know, he had access to that water, if it’s between he and Turkey Brook, I think he has a legitimate claim on that water, because you promised him five connections back in ’88, ’89, ’90, when the system was taken over from him. So, we have had some problems, the problems have all been on Saturday and Sunday, and it’s basically when you have a big park program going on, particularly with the baseball program in the upper fields, and so when that happens, we’ve shut the park down, and we…now, with that water tank on site, I’m curious as to whether, in fact, that extra 5,500 gallons will allow the system to equalize itself out. We’ll know better this weekend as to how it actually operates. So, there has been some problems up there due to that peak flow that’s been occurring….demand, I should say, from the baseball.

President Greenbaum: Amen.

Mr. Mund: Is it feasible, or possible, for a house to cause the problem, a residential house with a leak that would reduce the pressure?

Mr. Casey: If you had a good leak in the pipe, any good leak in a pipe, I mean, don’t forget, we’re only talking about the maximum we could put on line is 50 gallons per minute, normal flow is 25 gallons per minute. So, obviously, if you have a service entrance which collapses, you know, a half inch…5/8 inch service entrance collapse, you could easily very quickly use up that much water going through there if you’re at a lower….if you’re one of the lower houses, sitting at the lower end of the system where most of the pressure is, yes, you could drain some of the system down, but that’s not been the problem. The problem has been that the system works well for residential, but when you have heavy usage in the bathroom in a very short period of time, you know, you end up having a baseball over, everybody runs in and flushes, that type of demand is what’s been causing the problems in the system. That’s why we put the extra tank on that in order to give the system the capability of recovering. Unfortunately, that tank was delayed two weeks in getting it online, it’s online now, but it should have been online before Memorial Day.

President Greenbaum: Anyone else?

Mr. Rattner: Yes, Lee, with that, you’re probably….the more likely story is that there may be a break or a crack in our service line, because of having the pipes and the way it was put together…part of it was rebuilt, and now, with everybody being metered, we’ll be able to take the total of the meter and look at how much we’re pumping and see how much loss that we can’t account for. Why I was concerned is because I have your letter in front of us and I can see the real big difference is now you’re saying the 87 homes and using a 350 factor, you’re saying that even at the peak during the summer, it goes to an average of 250 gallons per day times 87 based on Turkey Brook, and it’s just that we used more water than we expected.

Mr. Casey: The issue is the peak demand that happens when everybody flushes, I mean, we haven’t had a problem except for…my understanding is the biggest problem is when they’ve had major tournaments up there. I guess they had two very busy weekends. I’ve been told that there’s been a lot more activity up there this year, particularly with baseball coming in very strong, as well as….

Mr. Rattner: Why, you know, just thinking about it and if we could….if we have a 5,500 gallon tank now, and we look like we’re living on the edge, would it be unreasonable to look at a 7,000 or a 9,000? I mean, it’s going to be a bigger truck, but then we have a little bit more, I mean, if we’re running and 97% of the time we’re okay and 3% we’re not, if we go for the extra 3,000 or 4,000 gallons, will that take us up to 99.9%?

Mr. Casey: We’ll know if….this is supposed to be a heavy weekend….this weekend and next weekend are heavy weekends, we’ll know whether, in fact, that system works, because one of the issues is that we also know when the tank’s used, because they meter it so they’ve got meters as to the flow going into….so we’ll know
Mr. Casey (cont’d): whether, in fact, we’re pulling water. In talking to the guys in the Water Department, that tank all last year never drained. In fact, they had to drain the tanks three or four times to put fresh water in it to keep the water from going….it doesn’t go stale, but in order to make sure it was…..

Mr. Rattner: It gets stale?

Mr. Casey: Yes, it was stale. So, we’ll be interested to see what happens this weekend, if in fact that….you’re right, the issue is whether that extra 3,000 or 4,000 gallons gives us just enough edge that the wells can pick the system back up, that’s what we’re looking at, picking that system back up. The solution is sitting next door, I mean, the standpipe is there, we just have to reach an agreement with Morris Hunt, Chase, whatever it is, in order to connect it, and then you have a big standpipe, you’ll no longer be a pressure system, be on a normal gravity system, which is more consistent in terms of the way it operates.

Mr. Rattner: Yes, we’ll be dumping a lot more water because we’ll have to move it on that big a standpipe.

Mr. Casey: Well, I know, but you can pump it once you fill it, you have more flex….so right now, what’s happened is because you didn’t have that tanker truck there and that heavy usage, we had problems in the last couple of weeks, we’ll see if it…hopefully we’ll know….we can talk next Tuesday, we’ll know better after this weekend whether, in fact, that gave us the margin we need in order to overcome the problem, but the problem on Wednesday, Jim, was caused by the fact that the pressure valve blew.

Ms. Labow: Actually, Bob, in talking, he kind of answered my question. I was going to say when we water the fields is there any problem, but you answered that, because last year you didn’t have the problem, so…

Mr. Casey: They’ve had that same technique with an above-ground tank up there since, I guess DiGennaro set it up in 2003, and they haven’t used it before, but I think what’s happened is the park usage now has reached a point that, particularly from what I am told, that baseball is much more active now and that’s putting a big strain on the system, for the lack of a better term.

Ms. Labow: Do you have any neighbors in any residences in there that you’re in contact with that you can….that they’re kind of gauging…..

Mr. Casey: There are several areas….the neighbors up there that are, you know, higher elevations, who I am told are in frequent conversations with our people. I mean, they’ll call whenever they see pressure going down, and what we normally do is we go up there to make sure the second pump has kicked on.

Ms. Labow: But will they also…maybe can you contact them and see if this new system is actually…..

Mr. Casey: We’ll know after this weekend.

Ms. Labow: Just because if they don’t complain….

Mr. Casey: Well, yes, because we also know the pressure gauges, because there are gauges and recorders up there and that will tell us if that, you know, where that pressure is in the system and how far it dropped on down.

Ms. Labow: Okay, good, thank you.

President Greenbaum: Perhaps you could be proactive, Bob, and have someone call these people and tell them that we’re resolving the problem and we need them to call in if they see any change in pressure, so we can correlate it, so they’d at least know that the town is fixing the problem, rather than them being aggravated.

Mr. Casey: Yes, no problem. I’m just as curious….I hope the tank works, I’m just…

President Greenbaum: It’s just a few people that it’s worth doing.

Mr. Casey: There are several, I think Steve mentioned one…there’s one person who’s at the highest elevation and that’s the person who calls us the most, because they happen to be at the top of the system, except for Turkey Brook. Fortunately, Turkey Brook is at the very top of the system, the first one that’s impacted is the baseball bathrooms, which is good from our standpoint, because that immediately, you know, it’s like a safety valve on the system.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. Any other discussion on this item? Any other New Business?


President Greenbaum: Legal Matters.

Mr. Semrau: No report.


President Greenbaum: Council Reports.

Library Board Liaison Report

Ms. Labow: The Library Board Meeting was very interesting last week. We had several more resident….a couple more residents had showed up who are…have handicap issues and they’re not happy with the situation of parking. In the past, the Council liaison has always sat at the table with the other Library Board members, I’ve now been banished to the audience, so, whoever becomes the next Library liaison, you don’t get to sit with the grownups, you get to sit in the back, and they were also very interested when they decided to extend Rita Hilbert’s contract by three years until December 31st, 2008, I’m not sure why, and they do have….they are passing out, where’d that go Jim? They are passing out a notice to….well, they have it available for anybody who wants to take one, a notice that says the Library hours will be closed due to severe budget cuts. They also have notices on the doors and it was discussed, and Dr. Lamonte said that, you know, why, you know, basically just say the hours changed, and you don’t have to be so dramatic about it and invite conversations and discussions and they did agree, and they were supposed to change the notices just to….that they’re going to have new Library hours, and there is….I guess that’s about it really.

Recreation Liaison Report

Mr. Mund: The Recreation Committee met on June 1st, they went over the 2005 budget allocations, they received more requests than were available, they cut it by a unilateral percentage reduction across the board of 7.9% to everybody. They discussed Mount Olive Day, which we discussed earlier and that the Chairman is going to be in contact with the Kiwanis. There was discussion about our facility fee and field permit, again, the Committee expressed concern and disappointment over the fee and they knew that it was being brought up tonight. They discussed the criminal background checks, and they’re rewriting their position on that. The High School liaison came up with a very good suggestion and that was that a coffee house or a café/coffee house type thing would be very beneficial for the kids, for the youth, and that maybe the idea should be submitted to the Economic Development Committee. They’ve also asked me to highlight some of the events that are taking place, the Father’s Day at Somerset Park on 6/19, Clinic at 10:30, the game is at 1:35, an $8.00 fee per person. The teen trip to the Island Beach State Park is on July 5th, $20.00, it leaves the Municipal Building at 10:00 am and returns at 9:30 at night. The New Jersey Cardinal game and fireworks on July 15th, no buses, but tickets are $8.00 a piece. A deep sea fishing trip, no buses, the ship is the Atlantic Star, it leaves the Atlantic Highlands at 1:30 and returns at 6:00, adults are $30.00, seniors are $28.00, and children under 11 are $20, and the deadline for a response is July 15th. A teen trip to Dorney Park and Wildwater Kingdom August 6th, leaves the Municipal parking lot at 9:30 and returns 11:300 at night, it’s $40.00 and the deadline for that is the 29th. That’s enough of that.

President Greenbaum: Is that it for the Rec Advisory report? Colleen, you had something?

Ms. Labow: I wanted to ask a question. Are we still having…was it two other towns, was it Stanhope and Netcong, join in on our trips, our bus trips?

Mr. Mund: Yes.

Ms. Labow: Have they been successful in getting enough teens together to have any trips this year? I keep getting e-mails where they keep getting cancelled for lack of participation.

Mr. Mund: No, there has been lack of participation.

Ms. Labow: And that’s even with adding two other towns on?

Mr. Mund: Yes.

Ms. Labow: That’s very disturbing, you know, that….I mean, they’re doing a great job, having the effort to offer these programs, but nobody’s….

Mr. Mund: That’s one of the reasons why we highlighted all the trips tonight.

Ms. Labow: Yes, because, I mean, nobody’s taking advantage of them. It would be wonderful if we had more teens and their families….

Mr. Mund: And one of the thoughts is to change the term that is being used for those trips to try to get a better marketing term.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Guenther: We had a meeting this last week, actually on Election Day. We had to make it very short, because we had to be out of here before the Election results were counted, so all we dealt with were two variance requests, which were fairly routine and the normal order of business was delayed to the next meeting.

Planning Board Report

Ms. Labow: The Planning Board meeting was very very good this past week, very interesting, very informative, and on a ratable issue which was very nice, we have a gentleman came before the Planning Board for a one….his very first extension…one year extension on 31,000 square feet up off of Route….off of Sandshore Road in the warehouse industrial area up there, and he has said he has not secured a tenant for the proposed building, but he is looking. So, hopefully, he will find someone very soon, and we had a gentleman, Stu Lesser…I think is…how you say his name, he currently owns the Saturn, was originally going to put a Saturn dealer in, east of the current Saturn location, but is now going to put a Subaru dealership in and they got their final okays for that, and that was a very exciting moment…he’s very happy….Rob is rolling his eyes.

President Greenbaum: Well, because I remember when he came in he was talking about a high end dealership like Lexus….I believe Lexus was discussed, and Subaru isn’t a Lexus, but….

Ms. Labow: Yes, he ended up getting Subaru, he got his franchise, and we did discuss the issue of having no left-hand turns coming out, which he does have now at Saturn, and they are going to be applying for Title 39 to have no left-hand turn and we did discuss it at Planning Board level of, perhaps Council would…if we want to make it a policy of any of the buildings on both sides, having no left-hand turn coming out of them, because it is a four lane highway, it is getting a lot more congested, traveled a lot more and so I’m bringing it before the Council…we can bring it up at a workshop and see if we do want to make that mandatory, that it is no left turn coming out of any of those buildings there.

President Greenbaum: What about the roadways?

Ms. Labow: Which ones?

President Greenbaum: Any of the roadways, can you make….will you be able to make left-hand turns off of 46 onto any of the roadways?

Ms. Labow: You’re not allowed to by law as it is, if it’s a double yellow line and there’s no break, you make a left-hand turn, you’re breaking the law and you can get a ticket…if a cop catches you, you have a ticket. Is that correct, where’s Ed? Is Ed still here? Darn, Ed left. I know a lot of people who do get tickets for that. If there is not a break in the double yellow line and you make a left-hand turn, that’s a traffic violation. If you drive down the road, you’ll see where there’s a road, the yellow line stops. If you’re turning to go into the building, you’re at your own risk. So, could we put that on for a workshop to discuss, if we want to make that a standard practice along the….

President Greenbaum: Absolutely.

Ms. Labow: Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Anything else?

Ms. Labow: That’s it.

Board of Adjustment Liaison Report – Mr. Perkins is absent.

Open Space Committee Report

Mr. Guenther: There was a meeting last night, we just generally reviewed a lot of the projects that had come up. The main subject of discussion was the letter from the Council President requesting…based on an idea that was quoted here at Council regarding the possible use of Open Space funds to tear down the old Municipal building. There is a letter…I don’t know if you people have gotten copies of it, it was redacted today by the Chairman of the Committee, Laura Szwak, I have a copy of it here, I don’t want to bore everybody with the details, the jest of it is that they feel, although….there was a feeling that there’s been too much raid done on the Open Space funds for projects that the Committee does not consider the primary purpose of the Open Space Fund. They realize the Open Space fund is also dedicated to improving recreation facilities, and under that umbrella, let’s say, the improvement of the beach area, as to being a much more complete and safer area with the removal of that building, would fall within that kind of classification, and reluctantly, they unanimously recommended that that be done with….albeit…they say recommend the township use up the $125,000 to improve the Budd Lake beach, with the removal of the building. The Open Space Committee believes the Mount Olive residents deserve a system of parks that provides a variety of recreational activities. Budd Lake is an environmental treasure of the State and New Jersey’s largest natural lake. The Committee wants all of Mount Olive residents to enjoy this natural wonder of our community, improvement of the beach to allow it to become a year-round park, not just a park for swimming, would accomplish this purpose. In addition to that, the Open Space Committee also felt strongly that, at the same time, that a commitment should be made by the township toward doing something with the Seward Mansion and probably within a period of two years, that’s the window we have, otherwise it probably will not be salvageable. The feeling is that, you know, that there has been some interest from a private party that would raise some money to help us with that, but whenever Kathy goes out and tries to get money for doing something in Turkey Brook, for the Seward Mansion, the institutions involved, either private, State, County, whatever, feel, you know, there must be some kind of commitment, and this means money, on the part of the township. Knowing the financial straits we’re in, you know, the Open Space Committee again recommends that we consider using Open Space funds for this. Probably the advisable thing would be to put that in front of voters, where the voters would go along with that kind of use of funding. So, they kind of tried to tie the two together, in other words, you know, Open Space wants to cooperate, wants to see the beach area improve, but would strongly urge the Council to do whatever possible also to help with the Seward Mansion. You know, the fact is that this could serve as a meeting room for the sports organizations, it’s the entranceway to the park, I mean, it could really be something. A lot of people can’t imagine it, because of the state they see it in now, but it could be something….it’s the….something very positive for the town. So, that’s the jest of the letter that’s been….which you’ll...I’m sure you’ll get within the….see within the next couple of days.

President Greenbaum: See that, Harry, you could have your office in the Seward Mansion. No bathrooms.

Mr. Rattner: On that letter, you know, about the reason for a referendum, actually if you look at this Seward Mansion, I wouldn’t put that in a different category than what we’re trying to do with the Municipal building and the beach, it’s two improve the park, especially if you’re going to make use of it. It could be aesthetically pleasing, it would make it safer because if it falls down, it’s going to hurt somebody. So, if I think we really look at it and what we really have to do is put together a real good schedule of, okay this is how much money we have and how much money is coming in, what plans….make sure that first priority, because I know from the committee, there’s enough money for the acquisition of open space as it becomes available, but at the same time, allocate a good….you know, whatever percentage and see how it’s going to flow out. Like what we did with Turkey Brook, we agreed on a certain amount of money to complete that inner loop, and we used some of the Open Space money, but it’s going to be over the course of four or five years, so it wouldn’t drain them in any given year. Now, we can’t keep doing that, because it will be like the transportation fund and use it all up, but at the same time, I think we could probably do a couple of these projects without putting a real bad burden on the Open Space, you know, and the parks, you know, what we’ve been doing on a regular basis.

Mr. Guenther: I think the feeling is if you stabilize the property and, obviously, you know, to really do something with the Mansion requires probably in excess of a million dollars eventually, I mean, that’s not something that anybody would advocate, coming out of the Open Space fund, but if you stabilize it with these funds, at least get a roof on it, do the studies that have to be done to be able to get the private funding, then you can go after it, and then it shows those entities that you’ve made a commitment…..or the township has made a commitment to it, it has spent some money to stabilize it and we can leverage that the same way. Kathy’s been very good at leveraging these applications on Open Space, I’m sure she can do the same again in the future. A couple of other things were brought up, and this is something I’d like….we….and we don’t know how this can

Mr. Guenther (cont’d): be attacked, it’s a….it came up in relation to the Open Space that was to be dedicated by Wyndham Point, by Toll Brothers. Apparently, something slipped through the cracks where that land was not dedicated to the town or the title turned over to the town. It seems to us, to the Open Space Committee, that there was not a….is not a tracking system, when the developer’s agreements go through, there’s no way of tracking when they’re….be these dedications of land. For example, in the Gen III project, I forget what it’s called, Fox Chase, or whatever they’re calling it, there’s some….I think there is….I don’t know, is it dedication of land? I don’t remember, but anyway, we need to have….somebody needs to flag these things when the developer’s agreements are approved, and track them, I guess, at the Planning Board, I don’t know where else, and that’s something I think that we, you know, just so these things don’t fall through the crack.

President Greenbaum: Well, I think what we need to do is pass an ordinance that talks about putting corner markers in dedicated space to the township.

Mr. Guenther: Right, and the suggestion was well, whoever possible, even though maybe it’s not possible in a lot of cases, that that dedication be done early on in the process, almost at the beginning, when the developer’s agreements have been passed or maybe that’s not possible in every case due to some logistical reasons, but wherever possible, that should be done so we don’t lose track of it. One other point was brought up, I thought it was very interesting, regarding BASF and the kind of, you know, our appeal to the State to help us out with that. The State kind of has to remember that several years ago they did a land-swap to permit part of that property be developed, and, you know, there was some protest against that, there were certain members of the community that very heavily opposed that, it was done, you know, to help the developer of the International Trade Zone, and the State might be reminded of that, and we kind of let them off the hook. They didn’t want to spend… what was it, $6 million to….or $5 million, whatever it was, they had the right to, I guess, to reaquire that land or part of that land. So, I mean, the State’s had it it’s way, so I don’t know if we could kind of use that as leverage with them and say look, you know, it’s time for you to….only 15 or less than 15% of our town is in the planning area, you know, we really need some help to, you know, with ratables down the road and this is an obvious place to have it.

President Greenbaum: Is that it Bernie?

Mr. Guenther: That’s it.

President Greenbaum: Thank you, very comprehensive.

Ms. Labow: I have one question for Bernie, please.

President Greenbaum: Sure.

Ms. Labow: What’s the….you don’t know which…it’s Wyndham Point that we didn’t get the property we were supposed to? Are we going to get it? Or what….

Mr. Guenther: No, I think we’re going to get it. I don’t think….yes, it is now, but it kind of almost slipped through the cracks. It just….it was lost track of, let’s put it that way.

Ms. Labow: I’ll bring it up at the Planning Board meeting Thursday.

President Greenbaum: I already have Fred working on drafting an ordinance that will require corner markers at the preliminary approval process.

Ms. Labow: Fred’s going to do that? Because I’ll bring it up at the Planning Board meeting also just to….

President Greenbaum: That’s fine.

Ms. Labow: Thank you.

Legislative Committee Report

Mr. Mund: Nothing.

Pride Committee Liaison Report - Mr. Perkins is not here

Board of Education Liaison Report

Mr. Mund: Well, tomorrow they’re going out for a bid again on a reduced scope of the project. They eliminated, or value engineered out, approximately $4.3 million, even though their low bidder last time was $5.5 million over what they had. They plan on opening the bids on the 15th of July and if the bids are again over, they will start negotiations with a contractor to come up with the best game plan for putting together the High School facility. They also accepted the bid for $130,000, I believe it was, for the temporary classrooms in the old pit. They, in addition, had their awards ceremony for the athletes for the spring, summer and fall sports, all their outstanding athletes. They had the teacher recognition and they recognized six teachers for teacher of the year, Donna Patie-Restaino at Mountainview, Ann Moehrle Scotland at Chester M. Stephens Elementary School, Cynthia McCleary at Sandshore, Phyllis DiLuccia at Tinc Road, Christine Torre at the Mount Olive Middle School and Ronald Gounaud at the High School. The rest of the meeting was very interesting because they are still having some discussions with regards to staffs, replacements, and discussion about closed session on the contracts and negotiations.

Mr. Buell: I also met with the parking committee for the High School. They’re not looking for any offsite parking to park the students. They’re basically going to bus all of the students from their homes, or at least that’s the plan, to the school and there will be no offsite parking, no shuttling back and forth to any of the parking lots. So, they do not want to use Turkey Brook, but my fear is that some students may try to use Turkey Brook, so we need to take a look at that issue. The real problem is the fact that at the current time, the senior class, 185 seniors, park in the parking lot at the school, all 185 of those students will be displaced next year and, you know, I still think that most of that 185 students are going to try to go up and park somewhere, probably up on those two roads that are still parkable, and it’s going to be first come first serve. There are 35 students that the school would like us, or has asked us as a Council, if we could provide them with some assistance to find them offsite preferential parking, because these are the students that go to and from the vocational High School and also do internships with businesses in the community and, therefore, they have to leave the building during the school year. The other issue is going to be the fact that the only cars that they’re probably going to allow into the High School parking lot, are going to be the staff cars going into park where…in the…what is now currently the student parking area. All other cars will probably be excluded, which means that probably we’re going to have to talk to the Police Department about some kind of traffic control up there because, basically, when you look at the design of what they’re going to be doing with the parking lot, there’s barely enough space for the 35 or 40 buses that go in there and turn around to do just that and get out of there. There’s also going to be an issue with picking up and dropping off of students by parents, because that’s probably going to have to be done someplace on either Corey Road or on possibly Schoolhouse Lane. So, what I’m presenting to you is, I think, probably major chaos next year and probably for…since this project is now delayed, we’re probably talking two years of real major hassles with kids with cars and parking.

President Greenbaum: It seems fairly irresponsible to me for the School Board to take that position, just to pass along the buck to us in terms of not trying to find a resolution to this issue. Yes, Mayor, you had something?

Mayor De La Roche: I was just curious as to whether there was any discussion regarding handicapped students and making a provision for them to park.

Mr. Buell: There are, in the plan and design, there are a limited number of handicapped parking spaces that are still in the plan at the current time.

Mayor De La Roche: In the student’s area?

Mr. Buell: I don’t know, it was not an issue that was discussed specifically.

President Greenbaum: Well, then the simplest solution to the problem, because it’s going to be a problem, the simplest solution is to allow parking for the two years, by permit, on those streets, and to the extent that somebody is irresponsible in terms of littering, excessive speed, those permits can be revoked.

Mr. Buell: I would also, Rob, basically that’s what I was thinking about. I would also like to have those spots, if we did that, assigned to specific students, so the people would know who the students are who would be parking in those particular spots in front of their house.

President Greenbaum: Well, if we’re going to go there, we need to put that down for a workshop because it’s too much discussion and we’ll put it on for….

Mr. Buell: We need to have probably Stansberry, at least, from the High School here and maybe some of the students who I met with in terms of this parking.

President Greenbaum: You know what, I’m very troubled by the fact that you think we need to have Stansberry here, because they simply passed the buck and you know what, they left it to us, because we are the ones who have to deal with the citizens who are going to be….who are going to be inconvenienced and/or suffer property damage as a result of the School Board not finding a resolution to a problem, and simply saying that the kids are going to take the school bus is a red herring.

Ms. Labow: But that even goes beyond just forcing them to take the school bus, they have to pull in the buses that they were leasing out to other townships, because we are going to have that many more students forced to take the bus.

President Greenbaum: The students are not going to take the buses.

Ms. Labow: They’re not going to take it anyway.

Mr. Buell: No, they’re not.

Ms. Labow: But, I mean, they’re not going to take it anyway and we’re going to lose revenue on where we were renting out….

Mr. Rattner: No, that’s not true, because according to what I was told, when I was looking at the sidewalks, State law says that you have to provide a seat on every bus…

Mr. Buell: But, Steve, the way they do that is they assign 80 kids to the bus, expecting only 20 or 30 to show up.

Mr. Rattner: Well, they told me just the opposite, because when they justified why that the savings of sidewalks, stuff like that, on some of the buses, they said it couldn’t save a penny, because every person has a seat and they wouldn’t save a penny. That came from Rosalie Lamonte herself. That’s exactly what they told us. That’s the way they did it.

Mr. Buell: Well, I’ve asked them for the amount of money this is going to cost, because they indicate that this is going to cost a significant amount of money out of the School Board budget….

Mr. Rattner: They look at the Solar Swim Club, or whatever it’s called, or some other place, and they’ll have to run a shuttle. That’s what a private business would do, that’s what every sports organization does, that’s even what….I could go on….the soccer organization does when they have a tournament.

President Greenbaum: Where’d they go?

Mr. Mund: They left.

President Greenbaum: I have a lot to say about the soccer club. Let’s put that $5.00 fee back in, who’s in favor?

Mr. Rattner: But, you know, if you’re looking at a simple way of alleviating something, that is tried and trued and that’s done in almost every other industry, every other situation. Colleges that have parking problems do that.

Mayor De La Roche: I’m just curious because I constantly hear how the schools are built for the students and everything else, and yet the students are the only ones being inconvenienced. I don’t think any of the teachers are being inconvenienced, they’ll have parking spaces and yet they’re employees. They’re making money as opposed to people who are paying money. So, there are districts where they do charge, so I just raise that issue, if you want to consider it.

President Greenbaum: Well, we obviously need to be the ones to find the solution, because….

Mr. Buell: And, Rob, we need to do this fairly quickly, I mean, because they’re talking mid-July when they’re starting to construct and….

President Greenbaum: I’ll put it on the workshop.

Mr. Rattner: They’re not opening up bids until July.

Mr. Mund: They’re not going to open a bid until mid-July, they’re not going to start constructing until August the earliest.

Mr. Rattner: They’re not going to do that, it takes more time to mobilize.

President Greenbaum: We’re looking at resolving this by the beginning of the school year, which is mid-September.

Mr. Mund: Mid-September.

President Greenbaum: So, we have plenty of time to find a solution. If we don’t find a solution, then we’re in no worse a position than if we did nothing, like the School Board. I just think that that’s…that is simply unacceptable of the School Board to simply just pass it along, knowing that it’s going to cause a major problem. After the township has bent over backwards for the School Board to resolve this past….and believe me, we did it because it’s in the best interest of the township, it wasn’t School Board versus Council, and now for them simply to say you know what, we’re going to bus everybody, there’s not going to be any parking, is fantasy land, because people are….kids are going to drive their cars, if they have cars, they’re not going to take the bus, they’re going to be parking on streets where there’s already no-parking, we’re going to have complaints out the wazoo from residents about the same issues that we’ve heard time and time again. So, you know what, I am a little bit upset that they decided not to work with us when we offered the olive branch to try and find a solution, they said you know what, it’s your problem, Council, it’s your problem. That’s not the way that it should be done.

Mr. Guenther: Mr. President.

President Greenbaum: Yes.

Mr. Guenther: Did you, based on the past record, should you be so surprised and upset over this? There’s nothing new, they’ve been doing this for years.

President Greenbaum: Okay, I guess that was said sarcastically.

Mr. Guenther: No, it’s….they’ve been doing….this parking issue, you remember, came up the same way before and we told them the same thing…..they’re passing the buck.

President Greenbaum: I understand, but now it’s a little bit different, they’ve eliminated all of the parking.

Mr. Guenther: Oh yes, I know, it’s more of a crisis now.

President Greenbaum: It’s a little bit different, because it’s not going to be a situation which can even be managed.

Ms. Labow: When we have it on the workshop, can we invite the traffic officer to be here as well to address issues on what we can and cannot do on the roads, because I wouldn’t want to spend a whole meeting discussing doing something only to find out legally we can’t?

Mr. Buell: Well, he’s the….the traffic officer and the Police Department is going to have to go talk to Stansberry and to the School Board about the traffic problems they’re going to have as a result of this.

Ms. Labow: I’m just concerned about the parking, because when I’ve asked the traffic....when I’ve asked Officer VanNess about permit parking on the streets, he’s told me we’re not allowed….we can’t do it by law. So, I’d prefer….

President Greenbaum: They do it in plenty of towns.

Ms. Labow: That’s what I said too, but that’s why it would be better to have him here and then we can discuss it and he can have his book on all the laws that you can do and not do and so-on, so-forth.

President Greenbaum: Have Officer VanNess come. I’m sure Mr. Casey has no problem asking him to come in.

Mr. Guenther: Well, have the Chief…I think the Chief should be here.

President Greenbaum: Whoever has the answers.

Ms. Labow: I’m just saying whoever has the answers, because I’ve asked Chief Katona and he said that it’s better to ask the traffic officer, so….

President Greenbaum: Whoever has the answers.

Mr. Casey: We’ll leave it up to the Chief as to who he wants here, it’s his responsibility.

President Greenbaum: That’s fine. Anything else from the Board of Education? Graduation is Thursday night.

Mr. Mund: Graduation for the Middle School is tomorrow night?

President Greenbaum: Tomorrow night.

Mr. Mund: And….by ticket, and graduation at the High School, hopefully, is outside. If it rains, good luck.

President Greenbaum: Alright. Lake Environmental Issues Committee, Mr. Rattner.

Lake/Environment Issues Committee

Mr. Rattner: Yes, I just want to pass along, from the Lake Committee, is that they really encourage the town to provide a launching area, for at least town residents, to put boats in the lake. We used to have two active marinas, we’re down to one, and one of them, somebody had a problem and could not maneuver and couldn’t launch the boat from there because of the way that there’s been more of an accumulation, as I stated in one of my memos. What they are looking at, I’m sure that they will help both monitor and set up, you know, work with us what would be a reasonable restriction or whatever, just so it can be used. Most of the residents in Mount Olive don’t take their boats, we’re talking about the larger boats, out of the water every weekend. They dock them, a lot of people, even if you have lake front property, you still need a place to put your boat in, there are places to dock it, like at the Pavilion and that’s what they’re really looking for. I know I’ve spent a lot of time up in New England, and every single town has a piece of concrete that they just have…they have the sign up…town residents only, driver’s license must be produced on request. Nobody really monitors it, but people aren’t going to go there if you don’t have a place to park, because there’s not going to be a place for day-trippers to be able just to park along there, because it’s all a no-parking zone. I’m sure Mr. Hashemi’s not going to let them park on his little parking lot or in the house, you know, the driveway of the house he built, but seriously, the last time we had an issue with boating, we tried banning, or limiting the use of personal watercraft on weekends. Every single complaint, the closest person who complained was Paterson. We got them from Newark, South Orange, and they said this was the closest place that they could come and put watercrafts in the water, and I think we need it, we want, you know, the lake is being used, we don’t have an abnormal number of boats on there. It will be primarily used, probably 95% by town residents and I think if it’s just by keeping it open….if we can find a way of keeping it open, keeping it safe, it will be at least something that we’re giving back to the town.

Safety Committee Liaison

Mr. Guenther: There’s been no meeting since the last time.

Finance Committee Report

Mr. Rattner: I have no report.

President Greenbaum: Can we get an agenda from the Finance Committee in terms of….

Mr. Rattner: What we’re going to do next?

President Greenbaum: Yes.

Mr. Rattner: Well, we don’t have a plan what we’re going to do next, but we will meet and we’ll do that.

President Greenbaum: I understand that. Thank you.


President Greenbaum: At this point, I would open it up to the public for anyone who wishes to speak on any issue. Seeing none, I will close it to the public.


President Greenbaum: Comments. Mayor?

Mayor De La Roche: I would just like to raise an issue. I appreciate the fact that I am now permitted to speak at the meeting and you afford the Mayor an opportunity to respond with comments. I don’t have any comments to make now, but I would like the Council President to consider permitting me to answer or to make comments after the Council has made their comments, in case there is something I have to respond to, because this way… what historically has happened is if I make no comment and then Council asks a whole bunch of questions or says things that I can’t respond to, so I’d like to reserve my right to speak at the end of the Council’s comments, if possible. I’d like you to consider it anyway.

President Greenbaum: Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Buell.

Mr. Buell: None.

Ms. Labow: Just really quick, I want to say that Mount Olive hosted the Relay For Life this weekend, the American Cancer Society, and it was an extremely successful event, and it was really great to see 24 hours people walking the tracks. Mr. Tepper joined, Mr. Rattner was there, Mr. Greenbaum was out of town, Mr. Guenther had relatives in, Mr. Mund was not available, Mr. Buell was there walking the track. We had Dr. Lamonte was there, Daniel Amianda, it was a really nice group of members from the Board of Ed as well as the Council, Kiwanis Club, as well as some other membership in town, and we had somebody on the track every hour of the 24 hour….or the 20 hour period, and it was a very emotional, very wonderful event and I can’t wait until next year’s event and I hope everybody will be out there walking.

Mr. Mund: I would like to just congratulate the teachers of the year.

President Greenbaum: Thank you. They’ll have a place to park next year, I’m sure.

Mr. Mund: Oh, I guarantee they will.

Ms. Labow: No, they’re going to get bussed in.

Mr. Mund: I guarantee you they will.

Mr. Guenther: I would just like to respectfully request of the Council President that…I noticed at the beginning of the program, this is something that when Mr. Scapicchio and I were Council Presidents, we started the Moment of Silence and it had a specific purpose and it came after 2001, it was meant to be in recognition of the people that fight to defend our country and had lost their lives, and it seems to have become very perfunctory at this stage and it lasts for about five seconds, where we used to have it for at least 20 or 30 seconds. I would like to see that reinstated.

Mr. Rattner: While I left for that fifteen or twenty minute portion of the meeting, I decided to make it productive, so I called Councilman Ray Perkins and to say that he is….what he said, is feeling great, he’s eating what he wants, he’s pretty much doing what he wants, he’s lost a certain amount of weight, which means that the chemicals are stabilized. He’s hoping to come home by this weekend, that would be about a week and a half earlier than what they suspected and he said that if he is able to stay on that schedule, it’s probably the quickest they’ve gotten anybody, with that type of surgery, out. So, he’s really hopeful, so everything is just working, everything is falling into place perfectly, so he’s overjoyed. He also wanted me to pass along that the different cards, gifts, and everything else was really appreciated, you know, being out there with everything going on, you get a fruit basket, you get a card, or something like that, it really does mean something and he’s really grateful for all the thoughts and prayers everybody’s giving him. Thank you.

President Greenbaum: Just to expound on something that you said earlier, Mayor, and I will consider what you and Mr. Guenther have stated here this evening, but I moved into town in 1997. I immediately got involved in the local government, in the smallest kind, through Flanders Crossing Homeowners Association, where I served for successive years as Vice President and President of the Association, which is 220 homes, small, but also involved local Mount Olive issues on a numerous basis. After that time, I became active in terms of coming to Planning Board meetings and to Board of Adjustment meetings. At that time, there were issues which were being raised with respect to the hockey rink and with respect to Crown Towers, and I participated in those meetings. Thereafter, I was appointed to the Environmental Commission, where I served for a year and that was all prior to running for Council in 2000, when I lost, probably in part because I had not lived in town long enough to make the acquaintances of enough people. I did not become a member of Council until 2001, which was approximately four years after I lived in town. So, that’s just to set the record straight, I don’t know which resume you were looking at, Mayor, but those are the facts.

Mayor De La Roche: Possibly it was because of the first time you ran, so it would make it less a time.

President Greenbaum: Yes, I ran in, I guess, 2000 against Mr. Guenther, but it wasn’t one year irrespective, it was at least three years, and after much involvement throughout the township. That’s all that I have. Is there as…..

Mr. Mund: Motion to adjourn.


President Greenbaum: Is there a second? Oh, I’m sorry, there is an Executive Session this evening, which is not on the agenda. The Executive Session relates to Open Space Negotiations. There will be no further action taken by Council at the conclusion of the Open Space. Mr. Rattner, can you move us into…..

Mr. Semrau: I’m sorry, Mr. President, while we’re there, I have a real quick residential tax appeal as well, Severaud versus Mount Olive Township, since we’re in the Executive Session, if I could just go over that as well?

President Greenbaum: Okay.

Ms. Labow: Are we going to take any action on that after?

President Greenbaum: No.

Motion to go in to Executive Session made and seconded. All were in favor and Executive Session started at 10:49 and ended at 11:21 pm.

The meeting reconvened and was adjourned at 11:22 pm.


Robert J. Greenbaum, Council President

I, LISA M. LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on June 28, 2005.


Lisa M. Lashway, Township Clerk





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