Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
May 13, 2003


The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to order at 7:30pm by Council President Guenther with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women fighting terrorism and those who have lost their lives defending the freedom we all enjoy


According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Greenbaum, President Guenther, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Perkins,
Mr. Rattner, Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
Absent: Mr. Spino

ALSO PRESENT: Mayor Paul Licitra; Cynthia Spencer, Business Administrator; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk; John Dorsey, Township Attorney

Mayor Licitra: Bernie we have our liaison to the Board of Education, Miffy Ruggiero. Dr. Lamonte is also here in the audience.



Future Municipal Leaders Scholarship Competition – NJ League of Municipalities – Charlotte Burkly

Mayor Licitra: The three and a half years that I have been Mayor, I get a lot of information passed through my desk. I try to read most of it. Whatever I don’t read, Cindy reads and Catherine will pick up on. The one thing that I wanted to do when I first started as Mayor was to make sure that we took advantage of everything that came across my desk as far as scholarships, grants, items that the youth of our Township as well as the people of our Township take advantage of and we compete with. I think that it is very important for Mount Olive. The notoriety we get from these things is very important. We have had something we have applied for the last three years; it is a municipal leader’s scholarship which takes an essay that has to be presented by either a Junior or Senior in our school system. Two years ago, we did have two honorable mentions in it, one was Mr. Kline. He had an honorable mention. This year we are indeed fortunate, we have more than an honorable mention, we have a winner. I was floored by the essay itself. There were two essays, it was so difficult to pick one and send it in. I had help from a couple of Council people, and also staff to try and differentiate from one to the other, but they are both just outstanding. But we did have to pick one and send it in. It just so happens what we thought was going to be an excellent one and honor Mount Olive, turned out to be that. From the 40 or 50 participants throughout the State and different municipalities, there were three winners and we have one of them. That winner is Charlotte Burkly. But I want to do this, I wanted to bring Charlotte up not only to give her the check for the scholarship and read the presentation, I would like to embarrass her, myself and the rest of the Council by reading her essay that she put in that represents Mount Olive. This will be in the New Jersey League of Municipalities magazine. But also this goes along with some other articles that we have had about Mount Olive and the way we are going. I may add to this that it is very easy and also with the School Administration, they supported this wholeheartedly. Without further ado, I would like to present to you Charlotte Burkly. I have to make you read this; it would probably be self serving if I read it. So please, don’t be embarrassed, take a deep breath.

Charlotte Burkly: I turn on the television ready to watch a movie. Wait a minute! I say to myself, isn’t that a Mount Olive Junior pep rally? That is definitely Mayor Licitra leading the lets go M-O chant. As a resident of Mount Olive I find myself very lucky to have a hands on Mayor and Town Government. On many occasions I have seen the Mayor at the local soccer field chatting with fans. Council members, past and present are active members of local organizations such as the Mount Olive Township Historical Society. Recently in a special program for district fourth graders, a large group of Town executives including the Mayor, Council Members, Clerks, and Police Officers gave up an entire Friday morning to participate in a mock Council Meeting and subsequent tour. By showing concern for the youth of our community, the town and government invest in the future. At the same time, they successfully ensure the security, comfort, and enjoyment of all citizens, in all stages of life. From the time their birth is announced to the Mount Olive Chronicle until they experience the
Charlotte Burkly (cont’d): joys of being a Senior Citizen in our ever changing community. From childhood on, Mount Olive residents are a priority to the law-makers. Inoculations are provided for youngsters for promote good health. When a child reaches school age, programs such as Mount Olive Child Development are offered throughout the town. In order to prevent children from being home alone or under no adult supervision, before-and after-school programs are offered at the elementary schools for children whose parents work full time. During the summer, and throughout the entire year, dozens of Township programs are offered for the enrichment of the community. By taking advantage of the assets that Mount Olive has to offer, the Town Government creates a unique experience for its residents. Budd Lake, the largest natural lake in New Jersey boasts a beautiful beach where, in the summertime, children can swim and partake in actives under the supervision of lifeguards. Budd Lake is also used for one third of Mount Olive’s annual triathlon which benefits the Special Olympics. The triathalon, with its main site in the International Trade Zone is an exciting event for all: participants, their families, Town Government Officials, and many volunteers. Among these volunteers are teens and Senior Citizens. Two groups often neglected when looking at the demographics of the Town. With the construction of the Municipal Complex, a Senior Center was constructed quickly thereafter, giving Senior Citizens an opportunity to socialize and relax with transportation provided to and from the center. Also located at the Senior Center is teen scene, a sub-committee of the Mayor’s Youth Advisory Council, or MYAC. MYAC is a unique organization created by Mayor Licitra in 2000, is made up of civic-minded township high schoolers. By promoting service and listening to local teens’ needs, Mayor Licitra has helped to make teenagers a large and functioning part of the Community. Working with the Senior Citizens, teens build positive relationships learn from the life experiences of the senior citizens and make new friends too. The huge challenge facing the Township in the near future is unprecedented growth. In addition to being home to New Jersey’s largest natural lake. Mount Olive is Morris County’s Fastest Growing Municipality. But as more homes are being built, and more people are moving in the Town, the Town Government is setting aside thousands of acres for Turkey Brook Park. Turkey Brook will be home to playing fields, hiking trails, a beautiful pond and the historic Seward Mansion. At the same time it is a preservation of open space. In the past ten years a new Municipal Building and middle school have been built to accommodate our increasing needs. Yet even with all of this growth, Mount Olive still has that “hometown feel,” with members of the Town, addressing the Town Council with any concerns or questions. The Mayor and the Town Council provide a special atmosphere of caring and concern for each and every need presented to them by community members whether it is from an elementary school student wondering about all-terrain vehicle usage, a property owner concerned about garbage collection or a Senior Citizen voicing his appreciation of the new center. As a member of Mount Olive Township, I have seen the many programs and special opportunities available. Our town is growing rapidly, but the local Government is up to the task; Mount Olive Township officials are ever visible to members of the community. Tune in to the Mayor’s television show and see the wonders the Town Government can provide!

Mayor Licitra: That wasn’t too bad. Mrs. Risko? If I may say something about Mrs. Risko, she has been around along time and she taught my children. I would like you to read the State certificate if you may.

Noreen Risko: Certificate of participation presented to Charlotte Burkly, Mount Olive Township, State winner for your interest in civic contributions to the community as evidence by your participation in the future of Municipal Leader Scholarship competition May 1, 2003. Congratulations.

Rosalie LaMonte, Superintendent: I have the fun part of presenting a check of $1,000 from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities made out to Charlotte Burkly, 4 Edward Drive, Flanders, NJ. Congratulations.

Mayor Licitra: I can’t tell you how proud we are of you and how well you represented Mount Olive. Hopefully we will have more people come out and represent us as well as you do. Thank you very much. I will be making a presentation to you at the awards night. That is the one before the graduation night. I will be there and we will make that presentation along with others. Thank you again.

Mrs. Spencer: The sports associations came to me and asked if they could request that two members of Council be asked to attend the meeting on Thursday morning to discuss an issue concerning Turkey Brook and the extension of utilities to the concession stand pads for the sports associations. The meeting is going to be held at 8:00 am on Thursday morning in the administrative conference room.

President Guenther: That is our budget sub-committee. Dave and Steve, could you both be available?

Mr. Rattner: I am not sure if I am available. I think I have a 9:00 commitment that day.

Mr. Scapicchio: Thursday morning doesn’t work for me. It is going to have to be the following week; I know I won’t be here on Friday.

President Guenther: That is also your late workday, isn’t it Dave?

Mr. Scapicchio: It is.

President Guenther: Then you are leaving town on Friday?

Mr. Scapicchio: Friday Morning.

Mrs. Spencer: Does Monday work for everyone. The reason that I am asking this is because it is a some what time sensitive issue in that it has to do with prices and getting back to a contractor as to whether nor not they will be able to go ahead.

Mr. Rattner: Monday is not good for me; however I am out of town. Let me find out first thing tomorrow morning. Maybe I could make a switch with somebody on Thursday morning.

Mrs. Spencer: The meeting should not take more than an hour.

Mr. Rattner: It is just that I teach class at 9:00 am. I have to find someone to cover.

Mr. Scapicchio: Either that or we could set up a conference call. If it was via conference, I could probably do it on Thursday.

Mr. Greenbaum: Bernie, if you need someone to fill in, I am available Thursday morning.

Mr. Rattner: I may be able to do it Thursday, I just have to see if I could switch.

President Guenther: Do you three want to work it out between you?

Mr. Scapicchio: We’ll try to work it out.

President Guenther: If one of you can’t Steve or Dave then give Rob a shout. I would also volunteer, but I have a conflict that morning.

Mrs. Spencer: Thank you.


Turkey Brook Park Project Status

President Guenther: Well we had the tour of Turkey Brook Park but is there anything else that you want to report, Cindy, for the public?

Mrs. Spencer: I’ll do it real quickly because we did not go up to the actual buildings, but the slabs have been poured at both buildings, above ground masonry has started, all utilities are complete. The project is still on schedule. As we saw walking the fields, all fields have been sodded. Soccer Field #4, the Sand based field was started this morning, and should be completed tomorrow morning. This project is 98.9% complete. Over the next couple of weeks, Conti will be returning to the site to continue rolling the fields to level out any inconsistencies that may have been created by the sod laying machinery, fixing any dips in fencing and completing pedestrian pathways. Our biggest obstacle which should be solved this week is that we are still waiting for GPU to come out to the site to run the connection for the power across Flanders Road and as soon as that happens, we will have power to the both wells, we’ll be able to fill the detention pond and start using the irrigation system to water the sod down. In the meantime, pray for rain.

Mr. Greenbaum: Last night someone came to me and raised an interesting point which I wanted to share with the administration and see if anything is being done or could be done. It relates to the detention pond itself, specifically concerns about a standing body of water and the mosquito problems that have plaqued north New Jersey. The suggestion was made that perhaps a fountain just to keep the water moving so that it is not a stagnant body of water. Has that been looked into?

Mrs. Spencer: Jim actually has an answer for you, because this question has come up before and I will let him explain.

Mr. Lynch: In response to the concern over obviously West Nile Virus and mosquitoes developing; what we have done is in calculating the rate of recharge with two wells to that pond and calculating the irrigation intake capacity, event for moderate nightly watering, the turnover rate in that water will inhibit larvae development and mosquito growth. In the even that there was a period where we did not need the irrigation system and there was
Mr. Lynch (cont’d): not a large turnover rate, we can utilize services. Morris County Mosquito Commission could be brought in and they will treat the facility. However with a typical summer, I don’t anticipate. The water coming out of those wells from the depth that they draw from is so cold; it should prohibit the development of any Mosquito Larvae or weed growth in that water.

Mr. Greenbaum: Would we be able to physically check the mosquito population in that pond, is it something which would be visible to the naked eye?

Mr. Lynch: We could have Morris County Mosquito Commission come out on a regular basis and take a sample. They do sampling right on site and they can determine.

Mr. Greenbaum: If it is an issue, it is something that we can address down the road.

Mr. Lynch: Absolutely.

President Guenther: Jim now that we are discussion the pond, the decision was made not to fence it, correct?

Mr. Lynch: I believe we did decide at the time not to fence it. If memory serves me correctly, it was an issue where we were going to discussing it again this spring. It is something that I don’t think there is a definite answer on right now. We will have to see when the park comes into use. As I stated tonight on the tour, the baseline is only three feet deep. I know three feet can be perceived as a great depth or a very shallow depth of water. That is something that if there is input from Council on that I would be willing to discuss and listen to them.

President Guenther: Charlene, did you have a comment about that?

Mrs. Miller: I thought that we were going to wait until Conti Construction was done and then look into a private fencer.

President Guenther: I think there was concern especially small children, that they could climb up the sides of that and somebody can…Well okay, fine. I think that makes sense. We’ll wait until Kyle Conti gets off site and see how…

Mr. Lynch: We did receive a quote in the fall. It was a very high price as I recall. Exactly what that was, we would have to look through the minutes, but we did decide no that Councilwoman Miller brought that up that we were going to revisit that once Conte’s contract was completed.

President Guenther: I don’t remember where the discussion took place, but somewhere the arguments were made, pro and con. One was well, if you put a fence up and a ball falls over, then it makes it all the more difficult and makes it even more dangerous if some kid tries to go over and get the ball out of the pond. I don’t know. Arguments on both sides, I guess maybe we should have the discussion again.

Mr. Greenbaum: One other issue Bernie, I was on site, it must have been Monday, and your guys are working in the barn and I think they are doing a tremendous job. I am glad to see that we are doing so many more things in house under your supervision.

Mr. Lynch: Thank you. To give the Council a brief update, as you are on site this evening. The windows are now in the barn. We have one more door we will be constructing. You may have noticed over the Garage door into the barn, we’ll construct that and then we’ve begun the stone work to replace what we have had to take down to make the building a little more structurally safe. So we will be working to reestablish the load capacity for the second floor and I am still working to get the best quotes possible for a roof so that I could present Council with the best numbers possible. So I will be coming back to you with that in the next couple of weeks.

President Guenther: Thank you Jim. Any further questions regarding the park? Okay, the old municipal building. I believe we had an update the last time that we’re really waiting for the end of the summer.

Mrs. Spencer: The end of the summer when Joe DeMaria will have some concept ideas for us. However there is one issue that has come up in terms of safety for our residents this summer when the beach is open. So we would just like approval to take down the fire escape which is not actually attached to the building, but if we were to remove that, it would open up the access way to the beach to make it a little bit wider and a safer area for residents to be passing through when they enter into the beach.

Mr. Rattner: So we have a cost estimate on it.

President Guenther: I believe we can do it in house.

Mr. Lynch: Today I was on the beach, you have probably seen, there were large piles of sand that were delivered for this beach season. There is approximately a three foot pathway between the waterline and the proposed snow fence that Schoor DePalma’s Engineer determined we needed, in looking at that, in the event we needed to empty the beach area of patrons. It would be a serious issue to get that many people through such a small area. The fire escape structure that is not attached but exists adjacent to the old municipal building is one that leans back and forth dependent upon ground stabilization whether it is frozen or soft. What I propose today was if we take that structure down, and use block to seal the passage way that was opened up from the original building into the fire escape, it would be a benefit in that it could give the beach staff, enhance capability to get bodies on and off the beach if we needed access with first aid from either side, then we would have that flexibility. It would also save some of the weather that is getting into the old building. I know we have had many discussions on the old building but if we used some of the block that we take down, we can block up that entrance and stop weather from getting into the whole town hall until we have an absolute plan of action. That could all be done in house by DPW staff. I have talked with the Road and Sanitation supervisor, Tim Quinn. Between our staffs, we have the capability to take the fire escape down; I will be talking with Russ Brown about the necessary demolition permit if Council approves it. But I think it is a benefit in that it stabilizes the structure as it exists and it helps to create a safer larger beach facility for the summer for the 12,000 patrons that use that beach. We just did not want anyone to see us taking it down. We came to Council, we want input on it, and we want to know if it is something that you guys concur with.

President Guenther: I see no problem with it, if that is your recommendation then maybe we should go ahead and do that. Council Comments? Okay, go ahead Jim.

Mr. Lynch: Thank you.

President Guenther: So we will be anxiously waiting the end of the summer, hopefully with a plan as to what we will do with that site. I have here a couple memos for old business. Apparently Rob, I will address this to you. It was decided that the Cluster Committee that we formed would be expanded and the subject is going to be taken up by the Master Plan Committee.

Mr. Greenbaum: At the Planning Board Meeting last Thursday Sandy raised the issue as to the appropriateness of creating a new committee when the Master Plan Review Committee was already in place. My concern was that the Master Plan Review Committee did not include the Environmental Commission and the Open Space Committee and various other groups and I was educated that it does in fact include members of each of those groups. It does not matter to me who actually reviews and conducts the meeting. The same issues will be addressed and brought forward for consideration and since the committee already exists and it’s an open meeting that anyone can attend, I didn’t have a problem with it. If that is what the Planning Board thinks was a more appropriate venue, I don’t think anyone here would really have a problem with it for purposes of harmony. I suggested that we move forward as per Planning Board recommendation.

President Guenther: Does anybody have any comments about that? I have no problem with that. So the cluster committee we formed last time is officially disbanded and will be taken up by the Master Plan Committee and appropriate representatives of other committees to make sure there is total inclusion.

Mr. Greenbaum: The meeting is going to be June 11, 2003. It is an open meeting.

President Guenther: Okay. Where do we stand on the Muelbouer Property?

Mr. Dorsey: The answer to that on the Agenda tonight is a resolution. The Vizzoni group which has been involved with that subdivision since 1994 has collapsed. They have any number of judgments against them. There is a resolution here that essentially resolves it and it also provides where by we will get title insurance not withstanding various judgments that have been gotten against Vizzoni for the three principle tracks that were deeded to the Township. One was like 16 acres for open space. There are two other smaller tracks. I believe that the Muelbauer Building is one of those tracks, it fits right in the sub-division. We will then have ownership and we’ll have title insurance to guarantee ownership with our current property.

President Guenther: Okay so that will finally get resolved. That is all I had for old business. Anybody else have anything they want to bring up?

Mrs. Spencer: One thing of old business. We did resubmit our Grant for reimbursement for the President’s Day Snowstorm and it looks as though we are in line for approximately $74,000. Hopefully we will find out within the next month.

President Guenther: Okay. Any legal matters? Mr. Dorsey.

Mr. Dorsey: We have had an ongoing battle with Fire Tower/Crown Tower over their Farmland assessment. Their farmland assessment was revoked about two years ago by Jack Marchione because they failed to file within the required time period. The County Board had upheld his decision. There was a motion for summary judgment before last week before Judge Kuscy and Peter represented the Township and we were successful. It’s about $70,000 involved in that particular deal, so we are still ahead.

President Guenther: Thank you Mr. Dorsey.


January 28, 2003 Present: Mr. Rattner, Mrs. Miller, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Scapicchio, President Guenther
Absent: Mr. Spino

Mr. Scapicchio moved for the approval of the minutes. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


Letters from Residents

1. E-mail received May 4, 2003, from Tom Graziano regarding hiring of new Police Officers.

Notices / Tort Claims

2. Notice of Petition received May 2, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Board of Public Utilities regarding the New Jersey Propane Gas Association seeking relief from application of the One Call Damage Prevention System.

3. Letter received May 1, 2003, from Vollers regarding ITC Crossing Shopping Center – Notice of Mechanics Lien.

League of Municipalities

4. E-mail received May 9, 2003, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding Tax Relief Convention, Traffic Impacts and Tax Relief Convention.

DOT / DEP / Permits

5. Letter received May 1, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection Division of Watershed Management regarding proposed amendment to the Mercer County Water Quality Management Plan.

6. Letter received May 2, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Environmental Protection regarding Statewide Solid Waste Management Plan.

7. Letter received May 5, 2003, from Glasson Environmental Services regarding US Route 206/Duffy Road Lot 4 Block 6600 for Individual Transition Area Waiver.

8. Letter received May 7, 2003, from the NJ Transit regarding Public Hearing Notice.

9. Letter received May 8, 2003, from the State of New Jersey, Department of Transportation regarding Pleasant Hill Road, Municipal Aid 2002.

Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards

10. Letter received April 30, 2003, from Historic Preservation regarding the 13th Annual Historic Preservation Awards Program.

11. Letter received May 2, 2003, from Morris County Green Table regarding “Protecting your Investment in Open Space.”

12. Letter received May 5, 2003, from Morris County Agriculture Development Board regarding the Morris County Master Plan: Comprehensive Farmland Preservation Plan Element.

13. Letter received May 7, 2003, from the Morris County Visitor’s Center regarding Summer Tour Series.

14. Letter received May 7, 2003, from Alliance for Action regarding Smart Growth Program.

Utilities / Cable

15. Letter received April 30, 2003, from Jersey Central Power and Light regarding a new temporary contact person.

President Guenther stated there were 15 items of correspondence on the Agenda and asked if Council had any comment on same.


Ord.#23-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing a Weight Limit on Emmans

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ordinance #23-2003. Seeing no one wished to be heard President Guenther closed the public hearing on Ordinance #23-2003.

Mr. Rattner moved for the approval of Ordinance #23-2003 and Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion. Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther declared Ordinance # 23-2003 as passed on second reading.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (2nd Reading May 26, 2003)

Ord.#24-2003 Bond Ordinance Providing for Various Capital Improvements of the Township of Mount Olive,
in the County of Morris, New Jersey, Appropriating the Aggregate Amount of $1,968,418
Therefore and Authorizing the Issuance of $1,870,000 Bonds or Notes of the Township To Finance Part of the Cost Thereof.

Mr. Greenbaum moved that Ordinance #24-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on May 26, 2003 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road Mount Olive New Jersey for a public hearing, consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish, post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Rejecting All Bids Received for Sidewalk Improvements Along US Route 46.

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Vizzoni Group and Intercounty Paving Associates.

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Preliminary Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Rand Homes at Rockaway, LLC. (formerly Aasma)

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders to Temporarily Prohibit Parking on Certain Sections of the County Road Known as Flanders Road Located in Mount Olive Township.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Temporarily Prohibiting Parking on Certain Roads and Temporarily Restricting Parking to One Side on Certain Roads in Mount Olive Township.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Relieving Greg Munkirs or One EDU.

7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Change Order for Turkey Brook Park in the Amount of $39,217.00.

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Endorsing Senate Bill #169. (Clean Water Trust Fund Act).


Mrs. Miller moved for the approval of resolutions one through eight. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.


Mr. Bonte: I have a question, maybe clarification on number eight, which is the New Jersey Clean Water Trust Fund Act. It mentions in the second paragraph that there would be a tax on water consumption of .10 per thousand gallons. The current tax that is in place right now only applies to Public water systems but the new tax would extend to other water users and then it says such as industrial and commercial. Does it also apply to residential users or have private wells?

Mr. Dorsey: I don’t think so. It is not my understanding.

Mr. Bonte: Does it specifically say that they’re not?

President Guenther: How could you measure it?

Mr. Bonte: About 25 years ago the State of New Jersey tried to do something like this. Declare that the water resources of the State were state property, not individual’s and there was a proposal to tax individuals for the “States water” that they mined at of the ground. They have a rough idea of how much water each individual uses per day and the tax is going to be applied. So I am just curious if this exempts the private well owners, what prompted me to ask this is because the language in this resolution says that the current law only applies to public water systems.

President Guenther: In this second paragraph it says it only applies to public water systems.

Mr. Dorsey: I was surprised when the Mayor particularly asked for this resolution if I recall correctly or Cindy did to support this? I frankly was surprised when I read the Bill to find out there was already a tax on public water systems apparently not on private water systems and now they intend to extend it to cover private water systems or private users. I take it that is one of the prime reasons that it is being endorsed because it is to create a further development of the public water system.

Mr. Bonte: My only concern is, if this is approved, and individual homeowners that have their own individual wells are not specifically exempted, will there be at sometime in the future, some move by the DEP to move to have a tax based upon this law that was passed that did not specifically exempt private wells.

Mr. Dorsey: I don’t think that you would ask any member of the Council or the Administration to particulate
what NJDEP would do in the future. There is no indication in this Bill that that is the purpose or direction in which they are going. This seems to be going in the exact opposite direction to pick up a tax that is already on public systems. And now place it as well on industrial, commercial and private systems. That is the way I read the Bill.

Mr. Bonte: I guess my only question is, am I a private system at this point, or could I become one at this point.

Mr. Dorsey: No. You are not the private system that they are talking about in this Bill.

Mr. Bonte: Thank you.

President Guenther: Any further comments?

Colleen Labow, Budd Lake: I just want to ask on the resolution for the Gregg Munkirs for the EDU. I know that the EDU’s have come up in discussion in the past. I understand why you are taking one back because two lots were joined together. It says on here that it is not going to become effective until all outstanding charges are paid. Okay, do we actually purchase the EDU back from the people?

Mr. Dorsey: Don’t purchase, we simply take back. We relieve Mr. Munkirs of the responsibility of the balance of the assessment on the one EDU, specifically requires him to bring himself current in terms of every payment that had come due in connection with the EDU that is now being taken back.

Mrs. Labow: I don’t know if this is an appropriate time to ask this, but with the EDU’s for instance on second street where Illmar Asmaa purchased 10 EDU’s, maybe Rob can update me. Are they going to give him permission to possibly develop nine lots. That leaves him an extra EDU. Then the same thing would be, any situation, like somebody is only given approval for eight homes vs. 10 homes.

President Guenther: That has already been given back.

Mr. Dorsey: The trade off here is that he gave up one lot in his sub-division to apparently placate the Planning Board and therefore it is felt to be unreasonable to insist that he keep the 10 EDU’s.

Mrs. Labow: I don’t mean to single out anyone in particular, I am just wondering, you’re just kind of taking it case by case, it’s not like anybody who has extra EDU’s…

Mr. Rattner: Two years ago we passed a resolution having the ability after the review of the Public Works Director on the situation to take back these and we have done it probably a number of times. We actually passed a resolution two years ago.

Mrs. Labow: So then how it works is, whatever date, like if they come forward and they want the Town to claim back the EDU then they just need to make themselves current on whatever charges as of that date.

Mr. Rattner: They have to make a case and we have to evaluate that they really don’t need it, just because business is slow or something like that, it is not going to qualify them. They have to show and then they couldn’t get it back. In other words they couldn’t change the use. A business property, it’s very hard because you don’t want to give it back and then have a different use or an expansion and then you can’t and you won’t be able to probably in the future.

Mrs. Labow: How many do we have right now? We had a 100 at one point.

Mr. Dorsey: I believe 364, Cindy do you know the exact amount?

Mrs. Spencer: I don’t know. I could get you an account for tomorrow.

Mrs. Labow: What do we do with those EDU’s?

Mr. Dorsey: We can sell them.

Mrs. Labow: We can sell them to anybody who uses them for that treatment for…

Mr. Dorsey: We can assign them to property owners who are in the appropriate service area. The service area that was laid out by the DEP for the Budd Lake Sanitary Sewer, that cannot be transferred out of that and people who are outside that defined area cannot connect to the system.

Mrs. Labow: That was my next question. Thank you.

President Guenther: Thank you Colleen. Any other comments from the Public? Seeing none, I’ll close the public session.

ROLL CALL: Resolutions 1 through 7 Passed Unanimously
Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Perkins and president Guenther voted no on No. 8


1. Bill List.

Mr. Perkins moved for approval of the Bill List. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unaminoulsy.

2. Approval of an Amendment to Bingo License #1052 for K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Bingo Application #1077 for K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Raffle Application #1078 for the Budd Lake Volunteer Fire Co. No. 1; Raffle Application #1079 & #1080 for the PTA Flanders.

Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to approve an amendment to approve Bingo License #1052 for K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Bingo Application #1077 for K of C #6100 Fr. Joseph A. Cassidy Council; Raffle Application #1078 for the Budd Lake Volunteer Fire Co. No. 1; Raffle Application #1079 & #1080 for the PTA Flanders. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed unanimously.


Library Board Liaison Report

Mr. Scapicchio: No report. We have a meeting tomorrow evening.

Mr. Dorsey: Maybe I should just tell you. The low bidder has indeed submitted a signed contract. He submitted to me the most important document and that was his payment performance bond issued by an establishing insurance company. He also submitted a certificate of insurance. Now there some technical changes that have to occur in that, but I think he was on his way. Although there was great concern before the Board of Trustees awarded the contract to Blackstone with a possible contest from the second low bidder, he has not done anything. I am beginning to think his time has run. Perhaps they have decided we have made the correct legal choice.

Recreation Report

President Guenther: We did have a meeting this last week. There was a report made by Jim Lynch that the football fields came out of the winter in very good condition. They needed no rehab this spring despite the tough winter. At Sandshore School the parking lot is being redone, so this is going to interfere with some of their recreational activates this summer and the school also reported that the trailers will go in the front of the building to handle the overflow at the High School. They will be delivered shortly. Also there is sodding that went on at the middle school, both fields, so the public needs to stay off for a period of 12-16 weeks. We, have urged all the different recreational groups to please update information so that we can keep the website updated. That has been one of my pet peeves, it is not as updated as it should be. So hopefully we could keep reminding them to do that. We also are in the process on writing a mission statement for the Recreation Committee and that was one thing that we discussed and that will be shortly forthcoming.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Perkins: No meeting last month, there will be a meeting this month.

Planning Board Report

Mr. Greenbaum: Interesting Planning Board Meeting the other night. We met on February 8th, which is the second Thursday in the month of February, originally up for discussion was Crown Tower and the issue related to jurisdiction which was pulled at the request of the applicant. There was very interesting discussion by Hovnanian who came in with a concept plan, similar to the concept plan which I had brought to Council on a prior Planning Board report. It is a very interesting issue, as you know we are talking about the piece of property which is tentatively scheduled to become an adult active community in the new Master Plan. It’s the piece of property behind the old Board of Education building on Route 46. There are obviously access issues because there is only going to be one entrance in and out and it is going to be right onto 46. Left turns are going to be an absolute nightmare. It was raised and will be addressed. Here is an interesting issue, we are looking at a zone which is now commercial and we were looking to bring in affordable senior housing for active adults. I think the question has really come up as to whether or not this is actually affordable. When Hovnanian first came in the units were, according to their testimony, going to be priced in the $250,000-$300,000 range. Obviously it is market driven. When he came back this time with his new concept plan this time which included more units than originally, but same density, his units went up to $275,000 to $375,000. The question arose whether or not those are actually what we are looking to accomplish by changing the zone or in my mind the question arose as to whether or not we are better off just leaving it commercial. If you look at the senior in Mount Olive who is going to move from a house into this adult active community, the taxes alone and I went into the tax assessors office, Jack wasn’t there but I had a discussion with Sherry, it is going to be valued someplace in the $300,000 range. Taxes are going to be upwards at $1,000 a month on taxes alone. Although we would be providing a service to the adult active community by putting this in. I am not sure that we are benefiting Mount Olive by bringing in another 700 to 800 adults into the Community. Now obviously adults require less services and that is one of the benefits of having an adult community because you don’t have to worry about the impact on the school system providing recreational needs, so on and so forth. There are certainly less needs that would be required, but I am not sure that this actually fits with what the Master Plan originally thought was going to happen with this development. I would ask the Mayor if he had any thoughts on it to chime in, either pro or con. I know our views differ a little bit.

Mayor Licitra: I think you are just about where I am, because I was the one that stated that I didn’t think it was going to be affordable the way that I thought it was going to come in. It has juice, absolutely, the way we went about this was again, how could we use our land where we would generate services to the community. Again, that is one of the things that we do have is that we don’t produce school children out of this property. And recreation services, etc. It is going to take some planning by the Planning Board and some thought, I think Hovnanian went back to the drawing Board and decided that they were going to come back in to us with other plans in a more affordable area that we can consider, or the people in Mount Olive can consider. I think it is going to be something that eventually will be good for the Township, but maybe like anything else the Planning Board will dissect it and have a lot of meetings on it I hope, and decide what we want to do.

Mr. Greenbaum: There were several other issues that were discussed. First, the Master Plan Public Hearing was supposed to be this Thursday. It has been adjourned until the July meeting because of the Cluster ordinance issue and the Planning Board wanted to get the recommendation out of the Master Plan Review Committee prior to having the Public Hearing on the Master Plan. So that was rescheduled. Also, I saw that there was a memo from Howie Weiss with regard to renaming Link Road. I brought that to Planning Board. I think that the street naming committee of the Planning Board decided that because of the nature of the Road it was not something that they felt was appropriately to be named for a historical figure in Mount Olive and basically sent it back to us. We wanted to rename the road under some other procedural avenue but they didn’t feel that it would be honoring the purpose of the Street Naming Committee, it was to honor Mount Olive residents and that road was just really a connector road. So that was really their thought. This week is a very light Planning Board Meeting. There is one application on, it’s a warehouse on Sandshore Road. I don’t even think they are seeking any variances.

Mr. Scapicchio: Just some thoughts I want to throw out there, I am not sure that anybody here could give me an answer tonight. It seems to me that we are changing the zone to accommodate this developer. This developer is already in front of that Planning Board prior to that Master Plan with his proposed zone changed then present it to the Council. I would ask if we have the ability somehow, some mechanism to be able to require that since we are changing this to accommodate this particular developer, if we have the ability to designate a certain number of units that have to be built to an affordable standard and how does one define what affordable is in an adult community.

Mr. Dorsey: When you are using the term affordable, you are not using it in the context of Mount Laurel Housing or COAH. You are using it in terms of affordable to…

Mr. Scapicchio: I am using it in terms of a Mount Olive Senior that wants to sell a home they have lived in for a number of years and move in to an adult community.

Mr. Dorsey: It is a very complex issue. I suppose you could put it in an ordinance. You could put the market range in the ordinance. If it were challenged, I would have questions whether you could do it that way, but of course one of the advantages of working with a specific developer is, you could either get his agreement which would be embodied in his developer’s agreement as to prices or you simply don’t rezone.

Mr. Scapicchio: How do we begin that process?

Mr. Dorsey: The process has already begun by him submitting the concept plan.

Mr. Greenbaum: Here is my thought on that. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but the process is really going to be the change in the zone and then a formal application being made as opposed to coming to an agreement before hand which I don’t know that the Planning Board has the ability to do since no plan has actually been submitted and won’t be submitted until after the zone has already been changed.

Mr. Dorsey: I think the bottom line is, I think what you are trying to do is admirable, it is in the best interest of the Township. There are some legal issues as to whether or not you can do it, but I take it that the ultimate place of the developer is, this is the basis upon which we would consider this rezoning. We will write it into the ordinance and if you don’t like it tell us now because we won’t go forward. So if you don’t like it, fine, then everybody go home!

Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to explore that. I am sure the Mayor would as well.

Mr. Scapicchio: I guess they wouldn’t get any kind of approval, Rob, until after that Master Plan is adopted right?

Mr. Dorsey: They can’t get an approval until there is a change in the ordinance. The change in the Master Plan is simply the first step. Then you have to have an actual Ordinance that deals with that. Then you have to have site plan approval. David, you know more about building prices than anybody here but I supposed you have to be a little concerned is if you put to low a price on it in today’s market. Do you get what you would then consider to be a livable unit.

Mr. Scapicchio: I think like Rob said, it needs to be explored John.

Mr. Dorsey: We could do it with somebody like Hovnanian or they are going to tell you upfront to forget it.

President Guenther: I know their history in Chester and what they did and it was the same kind of thing. Supposedly they were to come in at very affordable prices and by the time the project got done it was close to double the prices, pretty much market rate. They built a fine community, there’s no doubt about it. But they build pretty much what you could call a luxury senior community and my understanding is most of the people did not come from the local area. This is in Chester where the income levels are higher than they are in Mount Olive. People are coming from all over the County and they went for a lifestyle change and what they could afford, so I think we have to consider that. I have a basic philosophical difference about changing zoning to accommodate a builder. I remember there was a lot of community protest when the same thing was done for Toys “R” Us. This is a little bit different, but…

Mr. Dorsey: Bernie I think you are missing the point. Council would certainly never change zoning to fit the needs of the builder. It would change the zoning to fit the needs of the seniors in Mt. Olive. I think that is true both legally and factually accurate. As far as I understand the facts Bernie, Hovnanian came in after and I could be wrong, because I don’t always have all of the facts but they came in after there was already discussion and that they were one of several who looked at building out this community and obviously have the inside track because they probably have a contract to purchase the property from the present owner.

President Guenther: Well, they’re a purchaser under contract is my understanding.

Mayor Licitra: You know from three and a half years ago when we started the Master Plan, we decided we wanted to put an adult community zone in. So this wasn’t done in any way to accommodate the developer. Word gets out that Mount Olive is looking to do this and people come in. We have to look at some of these planned adult communities and see. You can’t have one that looks to me looks like a garden apartment complex and that is not what I wanted. I don’t think that is what the Planning Board wants. You want something that is
Mayor Licitra (cont’d): going to be an adult community. I would suggest that you take a look at a couple that Hovnanian put up and then make up your mind but this was the closest that we could get to what could be affordable to the people in Mt. Olive lets say.

President Guenther: Working in the real estate environment, I think Mr. Dorsey brought up a very good point. In what context are you saying affordable. That is really the question. If you take the COAH and Mount Laurel decision type of thing there are definite formulas to follow and that is a whole different thing, but if you do it “affordable.” I don’t know if you all noticed in the paper last week which publishes Morris County as the richest county in the State, we have the highest housing cost, the highest level of income and everything else. So Hovnanian is going to go in accordance with what the market dictates. It is going to be driven by the market.

Mr. Greenbaum: My concept of what is affordable and I believe that this echo’s the Mayor’s thought was that somebody who lives in a house in Mount Olive, lets say a house that is valued at the medium which is about $185,000 could sell their house and move into the active adult community, therefore relieving, themselves of property maintenance issues on the property. Now you are taking someone who is in a house that is valued at $180,000 is going to be able to sell it for $300,000 or $350,000 or whatever the number, taxes are going to be twice as high as they were before. For someone who is on a fixed income, that, to me, takes it out of the affordable range of what I envisioned the concept to be. Hovnanian’s proposal, it looks like a first class community, I agree with the Mayor. There were some questions as to the style of the house as to where the garages would be. Overall, it looked like it was really going provide a community that whoever moved in there would be very happy and would be able to live out their lives in good fashion. The question in my mind comes down to do we change the zone if it is not going to fit the residents of Mount Olive?

President Guenther: I think that is a matter for more discussion later on. It is an interesting question. How many units are we talking about?

Mayor Licitra: About 330.

President Guenther: My concerns are always traffic and I think that most of these people are going to have two cars. Multiply 330 x 2. That is a lot of cars coming in and out of there. There is not going to be pubic transportation to take them to the places, or maybe some of them won’t be able to drive. I mean that Route 46 is a night mare now.

Mayor Licitra: Keep it retail Bernie and you have strip malls and shopping centers and then you’ll see more generation of one can fear of traffic.

President Guenther: Does it have to be retail? Can it be something else?

Mr. Greenbaum: It is zoned commercial, so it can be whatever is permitted in a commercial zone.

Mr. Dorsey: Theoretically you can make it anything you want. I think you have to decide what is going to be the driving force. Is the driving force traffic or is the driving force senior housing? You have to decide and then you mold everything around the driving force.

Mr. Greenbaum: I think the Master Plan Review Committee is already taking the opposition that it’s senior housing which is driving the issue.

Open Space Committee Report

Mrs. Miller: Unfortunately I missed the meeting because I am going through a drivers training certification which involves several nights this week, so I missed it.

Legislative Committee Report - None

Pride Committee Report

Mr. Perkins: A couple of updates. The Pride Committee is still getting ready finalizing plans for the Memorial Day activities. They are redesigning the new bill board, probably not looking at replacing the bill board until sometime in July, getting it ready, so that way it will stay up with the Marauder territory which I think everybody will think is appropriate. Still working with Zoning and the Building Inspector for some of the building along route 46 that are in disrepair that need to be addressed. So that is still on the hit list, and like I said just getting ready for Memorial Day.

President Guenther: Whatever happened with the Adopt a Spot program?

Mr. Perkins: They have been working with DPW with that as well as the roads department with Linda. They are making some headway. There were some groups that were no longer active that were removed from the list. Contracts were sent out to different organization that were still active and there is a listing of some spots that are available. Anybody can walk into the Road Department or contact the Pride Committee, if you want to Adopt A Spot or if you want to put one of those hideous signs up there that has your name on it you can do that to.

President Guenther: What department is now in charge of the program?

Mr. Perkins: It is still running through the Road Department

Board of Education Report

Mr. Scapicchio: They met last night but there is nothing new to report.


Bob Elms, Budd Lake: As far as the Senior Housing I would like you to look into what happened over in Washington Township with a piece of property that was supposed to be a PUD with affordable housing that Hovnanian has now built or is in the process of building 95 homes on 102 acres and the minimum price is around $600,000. Each one of the houses is on less than an acre. As far as the retention pond at Turkey Brook, I believe we have an ordinance on fencing all pools. I realize we don’t fence Budd Lake, so if you call this retention pond a lake, maybe we could get away without it. In view of the safety of it and where it is near a school, I would suggest that we put a four foot fence around it like we require all pool owners to do. Thank you.

Richard Bonte Budd Lake: I have a question regarding if we create this adult community zone. Will these developers come in and will the Council entertain as they entertained once before and approved that an alternative plan known as payment in lieu of taxes for these types of communities because they don’t contribute to the school systems.

Mr. Dorsey: The type of community that they are speaking of to be built by Hovnanian is not the kind that qualifies for that kind of arrangement. That was an assisted living facility if I recall correctly. As I understand it there was no thought with Hovanian doing that kind of facility.

Mr. Bonte: That would obviously be a concern if that was the next step. In light of what happened about a year and a half ago where we granted that to Paragon Village, I thought I sat in this room and heard that the reason that they got this was to be able to offer fairly inexpensive lodging.

Mr. Dorsey: All I can say Rich is, they preceded with a facility that specifically qualify under a specific statute for in lieu of tax payments. It wasn’t because they made any special representations or guarantees. They applied for a facility that is under control of the New Jersey Department of Health and DCA that is why they got that arrangement.
Mr. Rattner: I just want to say I remember listening to that presentation two different times. It was, one of the things was it was going to be for lower income and this way it is a percentage on the rent and that is the way they were able to keep it low.

Mr. Dorsey: Steve, that may well have been their representation, but that’s not the reason.

Mr. Rattner: I talked to the third area resident in the last two months about looking into Paragano. I am concerned and I was going to bring it up at sometime. Not necessarily this meeting, but this filters in. I was told when we were considering doing that, it was going to be affordable. I have been told by the third person this is anything but affordable. Now, we had to do a zoning change, or whatever we had to do, we had to vote for this tax incentive. Why would we go that route if the Town gets less money. Because that is what this in lieu of tax is. We got less money, the municipality is getting more because we are in lower taxes and we don’t share it. The school system doesn’t get anything, the property taxes would. And to have it very expensive because I am hearing people going to Warren County and everything else because it is just so far out of range. This is the third one.

President Guenther: Steve, as I recall and I remember I was still on the Board of Adjustment when they first came, and I think we will have to check in to this. I believe because they are getting a loan from the State there is some State financing involved and I believe they are somewhat controlled by DCA as far as their rent loan.

Mr. Dorsey: Let’s get out the Minutes so that we can read what the representations were.

Mr. Bonte: Actually Mr. Dorsey, that is a very wise thing because I sat here when they gave the presentation, I heard the same things Steve gave and it was up to this Council as to whether we would give them that or not. We weren’t under the DCA to do that. But the reason I bring this up is I was just curious, I went to the Paragon Village website and I saw the prices and they are anything but affordable. The Village Green is less expensive than Paragon Village for the unassisted living portion. I think it is something we should look at because I think there were representations made to this committee and you acted in a manor based upon what you heard. So I think we need to look at the minutes and maybe Lisa has a copy of the presentation and see exactly what you were told to see whether or not there was some misleading information given. Thank you.

President Guenther: I think we should also check with DCA, because I believe there is an element involved. They have some say because of the low interest loan that they received from the State.

Colleen LaBow, Budd Lake: I just want to ask another question on that EDU thing. Does it cost us any money to have those EDU’s?

Mr. Dorsey: It doesn’t cost us anything to hold them. We do hope at some point we can sell them because everybody’s assessment was based on the ultimate utilization of all EDU’s that were developed for the system. But it doesn’t cost us anything to hold them.

Mrs. Labow: And we can’t sell them back to the facility?

President Guenther: This whole project was based on us using so many EDU’s. They went and got their financing to expand their sewer plant in accordance with it. There ain’t no giving back. It is over and done with, I wasn’t here at the time, and maybe Steve could address this a little bit better. I believe there was some idea that we would hold some in reserve as people came along, especially along the Route 46 corridor, that were going to build especially commercial establishments that would need more EDU’s that we would have available for them at the time.

Mr. Rattner: Two different things. First, you are talking about the gallonage at the MSA. The gallonage that we pay is at 75% of what we committed to. Until we go over, we only pay 75% of the gallons that we actually purchased. That was the total cost of the project to put the pipes in the ground. If you go back into our Code and look at the way we set up the rates for EDU’s we actually have an escalator in there because we realize that if we sell an EDU five years from when the project went in, we had the carrying costs and I believe we put in a factor of 10 percent a year. If you have a vacant spot which would have cost you about $10,000 at the time of the Sewer Project going in. I believe if you want to buy an EDU today because you didn’t purchase it, it would cost $12,000 or $13,000. That was built in recognizing the cost of money figuring eventually there will be other development maybe expansion on Route 46 and some other areas that will need EDU’s. Just like this project that you heard that we are discussing. They are going to have to buy a whole lot of EDU’s.

Mrs. Labow: Just bare with me on this question. The amount of EDU’s all total, and you are saying the cost was factored in, it was averaged out amongst all the residents who had to put sewers in. In essence, all of us are paying a portion of those EDU’s so when they do get used would there be a surplus?

Mr. Rattner: The reason why we haven’t had a deficit is because there is a certain amount of people for whatever reason decided to pay their assessment in total right at the onset. Also with land transfers, a majority of Mortgage companies will make you clean up any prior liens which means that if you sell your house a lot of times, so that was there, looking forward we’ll be selling and we do sell a certain amount of EDU’s each year. The escalator is in there, and so we’ll probably be okay. If we never sell them, we could have a problem on the end and it would just an amount that would be added in to the user fee to cover the cost on the EDU's.

Mrs. Labow: The other thing I have, about the senior development, since I live right there, and Bernie you had come across the same thing a few years ago when you were campaigning that development up there, the people have a terrible time getting out of that development. They can’t make a left hand turn going out, coming in. The State won’t come in and put in a traffic light because the words that I heard from the people is they haven’t been enough casualties, a certain number of people have to die before it is appropriate to put a light in. So now you are looking at this section to put in this 330 units where these people who want to come there to turn into their development can’t make a left, so where are they going to go, they are going to go down to Netcong Road, turn around and then come back.

President Guenther: The point that the Mayor made is well taken too. You have a choice, if you put in lets say a strip mall, you’ll probably have just as much traffic and again you’d have to get in the specifics of the development.
You can’t deny a landowner the ability to develop the property according to the zoning. You can’t deny an application based on traffic, the way I understand it.

Mr. Dorsey: I wouldn’t be so fast to say that because you can’t deny a developer the right to develop. On the other hand, a developer can lock himself in because that tract should have been combined with the ITC South tract so that it had access to the Connector Road and that was not arranged, apparently by choice by the then owner and sometimes you can lock yourself in because they are talking about a significant amount of development which clearly, as I understand it, is only going to have one way in and out.

Mrs. Labow: The other question I have is when you talk about if it were to be rezoned and he was able to put this “senior development” in, can we by law say that there can only be people of a certain age that can live there. Are you allowed to say that?

President Guenther: It’s being done all over the State. I don’t know, John can correct me on this. I’ve heard that if somebody really wanted to challenge that, there’s a possibility of overturning it. That it could be considered discriminatory but it’s never been done anywhere.

Mrs. Labow: I was at a Planning Board meeting, Rob, do you remember that tract, that one guy came in and he wanted to have it rezoned. They were talking about a senior development right there by Love Lane I guess it was.

Mr. Greenbaum: Yes, I remember that. It was an Industrial Zone.

Mrs. Labow: And the thing was, it was an Industrial Zone.

Mr. Greenbaum: I forget what old facility used to be there.

Mrs. Labow: And the question came up and it was, how can you prevent (Dynapac) people from coming in and bring it, you know a two bedroom, you can come in and bring a family in. So we don’t know. Is there a law that we, John? John can you have a senior citizen development and tell people, say someone 35 years old wanted to buy a unit in there and, can you say, well no, you can’t because you are not a senior?

Mr. Dorsey: It’s done all the time. It’s done by age restriction in the ordinance and it is done by age restriction in the master deed for a particular site. It is done all the time.

Mrs. Labow: Okay, I just didn’t know if you were allowed to do that. Okay, thanks.

Dave Jones, Rt. 46, Budd Lake: Rather than restrict the price of the units, couldn’t you restrict the square footage of the units possibly?

Mr. Dorsey: Yes, you can absolutely I restrict the square footage for the units but the problem is to build a decent amount of square feet at a price that can be afforded by a senior in Mount Olive. That’s the real difficult part of the equation.

Mr. Jones: I noticed that most of them were 1,800 square feet.

Mr. Greenbaum: They ranged and Hovanian was going to go back and see if there were smaller buildings that they had which could accommodate smaller units, therefore, producing more affordable units on the site than the larger 2,600 square feet. I think, basically, you are correct; the smallest unit was 1,600 or 1,800 square feet.

Mr. Jones: That’s pretty big, huh Bernie?

President Guenther: No, that is sort of medium sized.

Mr. Jones: For seniors.

President Guenther: Lifestyles have changed. What was considered large 20 years ago isn’t considered large today. People want more comforts. They want a larger kitchen. They want a larger master bath so you tend to have more square footage. People want more amenities than they use to have in the past.

Mr. Greenbaum: It’s an interesting issue that you’ve raised but I think the problem with restricting the size of the unit is that then you have a less profitable development. You end up with more of a garden apartment feel, less amenities. I’m not sure in accomplishes the goal. In my mind, I think we are sitting here with one that we are going to approve or not approve the zoning change. If we approve the zoning change, it is going to be a market based sale. Unfortunately, that is what it is going to be but I’m not sure that legally we can really do anything even if we limit the size of the units that is something I have to think about more because I hadn’t thought about it before. I’m not sure that you are going to end up with the type of community that’s worth changing the zoning ordinance for.

President Guenther: Anyone else, I’ll close it to the public. Final Council Comments?


President Guenther: We now will have an Executive Session dealing with Land Acquisition and Contract Negotiations. There will be no public business conducted after the close of that Executive Session.

Motion made and seconded to go into Closed Session for purposes of Negotiations for Land Acquisition & Contract Negotiations. All in favor, none opposed, the Executive Session commenced at 9:00 pm and finished at 10: 25 pm.


Motion to Adjourn made and seconded. All in favor, none opposed, the meeting adjourned at 10:26 pm.

Bernhard D. Guenther
Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on July 8, 2003

Mount Olive Township Clerk




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