Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
May 14, 2002

The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to order at 7:30 pm by Council President Scapicchio with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.


President Scapicchio: If everyone would just join us. At these Public Meetings, we now do a moment of reflection of the men and women fighting terrorism and defending the freedom that we all enjoy.

According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Mt. Olive Chronicle and the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum Mr. Perkins, Ms. Miller,
Mr. Guenther, President Scapicchio
Absent: Mr. Spino


Russell Temper Jr., Flanders, NJ: First I would like to thank you for letting me speak before you this evening. I am here to give you my opinion of why the D.A.R.E program should be continued because currently the Mayor thinks that it should not be continued. I think this program is important because it teaches students how to say no to anything that could harm them intentionally and helps students to deal with bullies and peer pressure. Also in an article that one of the mothers gave me who signed the letter, said that Mt. Olive had 40 acts of violence, five acts of vandalism and ten acts of drug use in the schools and six acts of weapons in schools for violence. I feel very strongly about continuing d.a.r.e. that I asked all the parents at Tinc Road School to sign a petition to show their support and so far I have received over 270 petitions and I expect more to come in. I would like to present these letters to you this evening and ask you to please reconsider your decision about the
D.A.R.E program and find the funds to continue it.

President Scapicchio: Thank you. You can present those petitions to the Clerk and she will enter them into the record and just so that you know, the Mayor and this Council are certainly in favor of keeping that D.A.R.E program and we assure you that there are funds in the budget to continue that program. Any one else from the public?

Lou Candura: I am here to respond to a letter that I received from the Township on April 29, 2002. It says "Dear Lou I have been advised that you are in contact with the Governor's Office in an attempt to discuss the grants regarding the Teen Center and Budd Lake beach improvements. I would appreciate if you would provide me with an update of your activities since the negotiations for these grants are at a crucial stage and we are in a very delicate position. I would appreciate your advising me of your intentions as I am concerned that your intercessions may have a negative affect on the outcome. These grants are very important to both the citizens and the children of Mount Olive. By attempting to politicize the issue for your own political gain, you will eventually eliminate us from the process. I ask you to consider the consequences on the above before you act in your capacity of a non-elected official. There has been much time and effort expended by many legislators to get back into the contention for these awards. Working together we could do the best possible job, not just for Lew Candura but the republican and democrat party as well as all the people in Mount Olive". I am sorry the Mayor is absent tonight because I am here to publicly respond to this. The Governor is a friend of mine; I worked with him very closely in five years. But when I saw the article in the paper that they were frozen, I went to him to speak about it. He said it is frozen. There is no money in the pot in this legislative budget to get it back. Next year he would consider it, that's were it was. It was not political; it was something that I thought was in the best interest of Mt. Olive to talk to a friend of mine about it. That's my response to the Mayor.

President Scapicchio: Is that letter the you read Lou from the Mayor?

Mr. Candura: Yes.

President Scapicchio: Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, we will close the first portion of the public comment period. That brings us to administrative matters.

ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS - Appointment to Open Space Committee Mike Sabella

Ms. Spencer: We have an appointment that we would like to make for Mike Saballa.

President Scapicchio: Does Council have to take any action on this?

Ms. Spencer: Well we need to get sworn in as a member to the Open Space Committee.

Mrs. Miller: He was at the meeting last night, but I don't see him in the audience.

Ms. Spencer: I don't see him either.

President Scapicchio: Any other administrative matters at this time?

Ms. Spencer: Just one other one, we do have a resolution that is listed as non-consent, I received a call a couple hours ago saying that we really do not have the ability at this point to move forward on that and we would bring it back in about three months.


Mr. Dorsey: I think I should tell you that yesterday morning for two and a half hours we argued the appeal taken by Crown Tower Estates as to the denial of the Planning Board. Mr. Bonte and Mr. Tarn were at the Council table and we had as our cheering section the Council President was there and Councilman Greenbaum was there and six or seven other citizens from Mt. Olive there to hear the argument. If we had the opportunity to pick a Judge this would not have necessarily have been the Judge we would have picked since he was the one that three and half years ago said that Mt. Olive was not entitled to a five acre zone and one wonders of course how that may affect his thinking. It was a rough oral argument in the sense that a lot of the hard questions were put to us because I suppose it is fair to that the Planning Board was relatively supportive of the proposal and then it fell apart. On the other hand, Judge Stanton did turn rather emphatically to Councel for Crown Tower and asked essentially were they prepared, or would they agree to a remand for the obvious environmental issues that are raised because that sub-division is proposed to be sewered by individual septic systems on each and every lot which Mr. Bonte and I absolutely agree is the standard in the 21st century for approving sub-divisions. In any event, in the end of the oral argument he said he needed more than the usual time that it takes and we are going back 3:00 tomorrow afternoon to hear his decision in connection with the math.

President Scapicchio: Thank you Mr. Dorsey. I know Rob and I are going to try to be there at 3:00. Are you going to be there?

Mr. Dorsey: I have to be there.

President Scapicchio: Does he entertain anymore arguments or he just gives his opinion?

Mr. Dorsey: You never know what he is going to do or not do.

President Scapicchio: Okay. Thank you.


February 26, 2002 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller,
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino
Absent: None

March 5, 2002 Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller,
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Rattner, Mr. Spino, Mr. Scapicchio

May 7, 2002 CS Present: Mr. Guenther, Mr. Greenbaum, Mrs. Miller,
Mr. Perkins, Mr. Scapicchio, Mr. Spino bsent: Mr. Rattner
Absent: Mr. Rattner

Mr. Guenther moved for approval of the minutes and Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.

President Scapicchio: Council discussion?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously


Letters From Residents

1. Letter received May 1, 2002, from the Flanders Crossing Homeowners Association regarding Water Restrictions.

2. E-mail received May 2, 2002, from Matt Purcell of Flanders regarding Water Restrictions.

3. E-mail received May 2, 2002, from Betsy Mansueto of Flanders regarding DARE Elimination.

4. Letter received May 8, 2002, from Debbie and Frank Forte regarding DARE Program.

5. Letter received May 10, 2002, from Lori Mcmahon regarding the High School Parking Problem.

Resolution, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Municipalities

6. Resolution received April 26, 2002, from the Borough of West Paterson regarding Governor McGreevey to restore full funding for Watershed Moratorium Offset Aid.

7. Three Ordinances (17, 18, & 19) received April 29, 2002, from the Township of Roxbury regarding Land Use.

8. Resolution received April 29, 2002, from the Township of Randolph regarding Deer Management.

9. Resolution received April 29, 2002, from the Township of Randolph regarding a Budget Shortfall.

10. Resolution received April 30, 2002, from the Town of Dover urging the Governor not to withdraw or reduce funds from the Emergency Medical Technician Fund Except as it relates to covering the cost of EMT Training.

11. Resolution received May 1, 2002, from the Township of Randolph regarding the State of New Jersey Budget and the Funding of the Historical Commission and Trust.

12. Resolution received May 3, 2002, from the Township of Roxbury regarding a Resolution opposing Governor McGreevey's Efforts to Cut Funding for Dam Restoration and Rehabilitation.

League of Municipalities

13. E-mail received May 4, 2002, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding an Assembly Voting Session and League Letter on Telecommunications.

14. E-mail received May 6, 2002, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding bill S-1211 which seeks to create a PFRS deferred option retirement program, otherwise known as DROP.

15. Letter received May 7, 2002, from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding a League Seminar on Financial Development.

DOT / DEP / Permit's / LOI's

16. Letter received May 2, 2002, from URS Corporation regarding Notification of Intent to Establish Interim Classification Exception Area and Well Restriction Area for Dynapac Manufacturing, Inc. Facility.

Correspondence from Legislative Representatives

17. Letter received May 2, 2002, from Senator R. Torricelli regarding Resolution that was received on the Falun Gong Movement and the Chinese Government.

Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards

18. Letter received April 29, 2002, from the Mount Olive Township Historical Society regarding Seward Mansion Sign.

19. Minutes received May 2, 2002, from the Morris County Planning Board regarding the March 21, 2002 meeting.

20. Letter received May 8, 2002, from Morris County Community Development regarding Morris County Community Development and Home Program Federal Fiscal Years 2003, 2004, and 2005.


21. Notice received April 26, 2002, from NJ Transit regarding Public Hearing.

22. E-mail received May 7, 2002, from Morris County Chamber of Commerce regarding MADG - Economic Development Awards Luncheon.

Utilities / Cable

23. Fax received May 10, 2002, from Comcast regarding Cable System Upgrade, Building a New Playground, Aid in September 11th families and Programming.

President Scapicchio stated we have 23 pieces of correspondence on the agenda and asked if Council had any comments on same?

Mr. Rattner: I have a question I guess towards the Administration; the letter we got from Flanders Crossing regarding filling up the swimming pool. Have we resolved that?

Ms. Spencer: Actually it turns out that their pool was only three inches down from the top and so when they came and met with us, they have agreed to take measures this year to try to brush the sides and clean it the same way that someone who owned a small private pool would do, so they would be doing that with chemicals. They have gotten a no fee permit from DPW and which just allows them to use very limited water in cleaning the filters and that sort of thing while they go through that process. They are living with the restrictions.

Mr. Rattner: Then we have another satisfied customer.

President Scapicchio: They are satisfied that they have water in their pool, they are not happy with what they perceive to be rules that are not uniform between businesses and associations and pools of that size. I think all of us here agree with the Mayor's position on the water restrictions. I feel it should be across the board equal for all parties. Right now you have some commercial establishments that rely on these pools for an income that can fill their pools up. I just found this out that these large concrete pools are drained every year for several reasons. I think they take in excess of 60,000 gallons or so to fill back up 60, 70, 80,000 gallons. So I think that the Mayor is probably going to look at instructing them prior to next year to think twice before they drain those pools.

Mrs. Miller: We have the Village Green and the ones up at Eagle Rock. I think they empty them every winter.

President Scapicchio: Cynthia, do you remember how many there were? A half or dozen or so maybe?

Ms. Spencer: Actually, all of the pools that are part of Homeowners Association or apartment complexes, those will be treated as private residents just like Flanders Crossing. The ones that would not would be are Solar Sun the Jewish Daycare Center Camp that has a pool. I believe it is only the two.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else on correspondence? Seeing none, we will move forward.


Ord. #20-2002 An Ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Ordinance Authorizing the Sale of Block 2801, Lot 89 to Edigio Floro for $10,200. (Result or In Rem Foreclosure Action)

Mr. Dorsey: This is a deal we struck over year ago, he has already paid his money into my trust account and awaited the foreclosure on a piece of property which we had an In Rem Tax Forclosure Certificate to do so.

President Scapicchio opened the Public Hearing on Ord. #20-2002.

Ned McDonald, Budd Lake, NJ: This really does not pertain to the sale, but I thought sometime back there was going to be something in these ordinances that describe where the property was, a street address or some description other than a lot and block number. What ever happened to that idea?

Mr. Dorsey: Frankly, I don't know that this lot has a number yet because it is just a vacant lot, so we use the lot and block.

Mr. McDonald: As someone said, there was supposed to be a map attached to these, because it is awful hard to tell where these things are when it is just lot and block. Some further description would be very helpful to the public.

President Scapicchio: Ned, you are right, Charlene has been requesting this right along since the very beginning of your term. Cynthia, could you see to it that a little map, it could be just a copy 8 x 10 gets attached.

Mr. Dorsey: McGroarty could give it to you?

President Scapicchio: Thanks for the point. Anyone else wish to be heard on this ordinance?

President Scapicchio closed the Public Hearing on Ord. #20-2002.

Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage of Ord. #20-2002 and Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.

President Scapicchio: Council discussion?

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Scapicchio declared Ordinance #20-2002 is passed on second reading and I hereby direct the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and to publish the notice of adoption as required by law.


Ord. #22-2002 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing a Fee of $25.00 for the Preparation of a Duplicate Tax Sale Certificate.

Mr. Perkins moved Ord. #22-2002 to be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on June 18, 2002 at the Municipal Building 204 Flanders Drakestown Road Mt. Olive, New Jersey for a Public Hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of set Ordinance and that the Clerk by directed to publish, post and make available set Ordinance in accordance with requirements of the law. Mrs. Miller seconded that motion.

President Scapicchio: Council discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive RE: Fieldview Estates/Toll Brothers.

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Urging the Legislature to Move and Pass the Reauthorization of the Clean Communities Bill A-2110 and S-1373.

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Urging the Governor not to Withdraw or Reduce Funds from the Emergency Medical Technician Fund.

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Supporting the Senate Bill No. S644 - Authorizes Municipalities to Impose Room Tax on Hotels with more than 100 Rooms.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Opposing the State Freeze on State Aid to Schools.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Endorsing a Constitutional Convention Re: Tax Reform.

7. A Resolution Authorizing the Issuance of a Duplicate Tax Sale Certificate Pursuant to Chapter 99 of the Public Laws of 1997. (Certificate # 99-041)

8. A Resolution Authorizing the Issuance of a Duplicate Tax Sale Certificate Pursuant to Chapter 99 of the Public Laws of 1997. (Certificate #98-080)

President Scapicchio: We have eight items on the consent resolutions agenda, does any Council person wish to remove any one? Seeing none, Mr. Greenbaum.

Mr. Greenbaum made a motion to move the Consent Resolutions agenda and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.

President Scapicchio: Any public comment on the Consent Resolutions agenda?

Rich Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: Resolution No. 6 which has to do with the Constitutional Convention. I have a couple of questions. This Constitutional Convention that is being proposed, is it strictly to deal with the issue of tax reform? Or is it going to be an opening for everybody within the State to look to revise whatever they feel is at ill with the State of New Jersey?

Mr. Dorsey: Based upon my long legislative career and connection with these matters it is my recollection that once you call a Constitutional Convention there are no constraints on what Constitutional issues it may address. That has always been one of the fears. In 1947 the State of New Jersey essentially revised everything there was to revise in the State but the issue you make and as I understand is a fair issue and once a convention is called there is no limitation on what it will need addressed.

Rich Bonte: My second question. Is the issue of how this State raises taxes part of the State Constitution or is this a duty for the legislature to enact how taxes are raised and collected and distributed?

Mr. Dorsey: That is a very complex issue, as most of the issues that you raise, Mr. Bonte. The issue is that the legislature can only adopt laws dealing with the raising of revenues as they are permitted to do so within the confines of the restrictions placed on them by the Constitution. I think part of the problems that may be addressed in a Constitutional Convention, you can only speculate about this, would be the way in which the New Jersey Constitution has been interpreted by the Supreme Court over years. For Instance, in New Jersey at one point in time, it was permitted to have a differentiation as to the manor in which non-residential property was assessed vs. the way residential property is assessed and obviously could make a great deal of difference in terms of how real estate taxes are raised and can shift the burden one way or the other. The people who are in favor of a Constitutional Convention believe presumably I say this in good faith they believe that they could in some way manipulate the Constitution in order to permit the legislature to change the way revenues are raised. It is very difficult to answer these questions because people who are in support of it have not yet revealed precisely what their agenda is so it is difficult to know who has the agenda.

Mr. Bonte: In light of what you have answered to me which I thank you for, do you think that it is wise at this point in time that this body endorse this Constitutional Convention without limitations at best?

Mr. Dorsey: I don't answer that question, I will let the Council answer that question.

Mr. Bonte: I would like the Council to give this a lot of thought because a constitutional convention is a very serious undertaking and you know the expression, be careful what you wish for.

President Scapicchio: Rich, this was put on this agenda at several requests from Councilman Spino. I am not in favor of this; I am actually going to ask that we just take this off the agenda until Earl is here to address that since it was put here based on his request. Rob would you want to amend your motion?

Mr. Greenbaum amended the motion to approve No. 1 through 8 excluding No. 6. and Mr. Perkins seconded that motion.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the public on the consent resolution agenda? Any Council comments?

Mr. Guenther: Just from what little I know and maybe Mr. Dorsey can correct me however I feel the Supreme Court some years ago has declared illegal the way New Jersey funds the schooling through property taxes and I think that is what spear headed this as the cause for this moving for Constitutional Convention. Am I correct on that?

Mr. Dorsey: I think that is one of the reasons, yes.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else on the Council? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Scapicchio: Lisa, if you could put that back on the agenda at another Public Meeting when Mr. Spino will be here, I would appreciate that. Okay, that brings us to the motions on the Bill List. Charlene.

Mrs. Miller: What about resolution No. 9?

President Scapicchio: The Business Administrator asked that be withdrawn.

9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Filing of an Application for a Smart Growth Grant.


1. Bill List.

Mrs. Miller moved to approve the Bill List and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.

President Scapicchio: Council comments on the Bill List?

Mr. Rattner: Just one for the CFO, I see Lamp Post Electric is back on there. Did we resolve the issues? What are we paying?

Mrs. Jenkins: We have negotiated them for services and I believe Mark DiGennaro is currently in the process of preparing a bid for that service.

Mr. Rattner: It looks like the total amounts are well within the bidding laws at this point.

Mrs. Jenkins: We are. Absolutely.

President Scapicchio: Anyone else on the Council? Sherry, on page 4, Ford Motor credit lease at $2,009.00. I have not seen it before, or it hasn't caught my eye. We had one Ford lease right?
Mrs. Jenkins: This is just an April lease payment. It is for the two leases that we have, the two Chevy Impalas.

President Scapicchio: This says Ford.

Mrs. Jenkins: Ford Motor Credit is who we are making the lease payments to.

President Scapicchio: You mean they finance the Chevy's also?

Mrs. Jenkins: Yes.

President Scapicchio: Okay, thank you.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

2. Approval of Raffle Application #1034 & #1035 for the Jewish Ctr. Mount Olive.
3. Approval of Peddlers Permit for John Woodburn.

Mr. Guenther moved for approval for Raffle Application #1034 & #1035 for the Jewish Ctr. of Mount Olive and the Peddlers Permit for John Woodburn for Mobile Food Vending. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously


Board of Health, Ray Perkins: The Board of Health had a meeting, there was no action taken, there was no ordinances to be passed. It was just a general meeting, so that went rather quickly. As a matter of fact Councilman Rattner stepped in and actually lengthened it a little bit.

Mr. Rattner: I didn't say a thing.

Mr. Dorsey: Your presence.

Pride Committee, Ray Perkins: The Pride Committee is working the beach now. It has the new flags up they put through part of the requisition to help get that accomplished for the Memorial Parade. We are coordinating with the Historical Society for getting those flags down right after the Fourth of July and having banners put up in their place basically commemorative for September 11, 2001 as well as other holidays. The essay contest, the final essays were submitted. They have been reviewed and my understanding, we should have a winner picked for the essay contest for Memorial Day. The Robotics Club is going to be getting an award on the 21st. The Pride Committee is also taking part to make a $200.00 award to them.

Open Space Committee, Mrs. Miller: We met last night and I think that the good news is that we recently purchased the Alden Smith property which was 22 acres. I guess that has been completed and some of our open space people and environmental people were at that Crown Towers meeting and they highly complimented Mr. Dorsey for his presentation at the hearing. They have been working on a new list of perspective properties, I guess it is four or five pages long. It is very colorful and they are going to be sending a copy of this. They discussed it last night and they will be sending a copy of this to the Council for review.

President Scapicchio: Thank you Charlene. That is the second oral argument I have watched Mr. Dorsey make and it is always very interesting to watch him make those arguments, I might also add that Mr. Bonte did an excellent job.

Mr. Rattner: This weekend what is commonly referred to as the Lake Committee had their annual lake clean up which I participated in. It was under the direction of Fran Lashway who was able to scramble up about 20 volunteers. We more than filled the dumpsters that were provided by the Town. The maintenance on the trees, the new mulch and everything else so it is all set for the parade goers come Memorial Day.

Planning Board, Rob Greenbaum: Special meeting last week with regard to Shoprite. The objector put on two of his witnesses a planner and Peter Steck of Bosewell Engineering, the objector has one or two more witnesses to put on this Thursday and I expect that the Shoprite application will come to a vote of the Planning Board this Thursday. Originally the Second Street application was to also be heard this Thursday, but they had voluntarily asked to have it adjourned and rescheduled which was done at the last meeting.

Mr. Dorsey: Rob, I take it this is a serious objector?

Mr. Greenbaum: They are represented by Beedie Pedavano. On behalf of Mr. Riad.

Mr. Dorsey: What is the objector? It's serious here.

Mr. Greenbaum: Mr. Riad who has retained the Beedie Pedavano Firm owns the A&P shopping center and the shopping center across the street. Although the objection has not been stated to the Planning Board, I think it is fairly obvious.

President Scapicchio: The Clerk has just informed me that the attorney for Shoprite has requested the financial disclosure forms of all Planning Board members. Okay, anyone else?

President Scapicchio (cont'd): I have a small little report. Council Committee has been going through the Mt. Olive School Board Budget and today we have presented them with an Attachment A that has five pages of areas of savings that we believe can be made and will still provide for a thorough and efficient education for the students of Mt. Olive Township. We have identified savings totaling $1,339,846.00. The Board of Education did not look very happy. We have had our auditor Gary Higgins do a three year trend. He prepared a detailed analysis and there are some line items that have significantly increased. We have a hand out that Lisa has made copies of. We have a special meeting scheduled for this Friday at 5:00 pm for this Council to adopt this Resolution. That is where we are.

Mr. Dorsey: It must be adopted this Friday because you are running out of time right?

President Scapicchio: Monday the 20th is the last day and we scheduled it for Friday because Monday I have a Board of Adjustment meeting elsewhere with Mr. Heymann.


President Scapicchio: Okay, that brings us to the second and the last public portion of this meeting, anyone from the public?

Bob Elms, Budd Lake, NJ: I see that you have scheduled a budget workshop after this which I assume is for the Township Budget not the School Budget.

President Scapicchio: That is correct.

Mr. Elms: With that in mind I have a few comments. I asked for a line item budget and got it and these are my comments. The following items are a result of a cursorily review of the line item budget. I recognize that I did not spend as much time with the budget as I presumed the Council members did, so if I mention what has already been resolved, please interrupt me and let me know what the resolution has been. I believe that the cable video taping has been thoroughly discussed but my recommendation would be to delete it as it has a very small audience and in many cases can be duplicated by the Townships periodic mailer and it looks very much like political campaigning. Next, there once was a five percent cap on spending. What has happened to that?

President Scapicchio: Sherry, could you answer that question?

Mrs. Jenkins: We get an index rate every year that says how much we are allowed to go up and by law you could actually go up to five percent. You could get approval to do that so that is still there. But then you also get into the issue that if you don't use the full amount of what you could go up to you could actually bank it, so here what we have been doing for quite a while is actually able to bank and we could use that bank towards our annual allotment.

Mr. Elms: Like a savings account?

Mrs. Jenkins: Basically, yes.

Mr. Elms: So if we did not have an increase in the last three or four years, we could expect a whopping increase now just from that alone.

Mrs. Jenkins: No. Basically if you have a year where you have movement between what you could go up or there is a difference between what you could go up and what you actullay did go up, the State would actually allow you to bank that and you could use it in the subsequent year if you needed to.

Mr. Rattner: Bob, just so you know the CAP also has a factor in it that allows you to increase it for ratable growth because it recognizes that and not everything in the book is under CAP.

Mrs. Jenkins: For instance the library, Municipal Court; those things are outside of CAP debt service.

Mr. Elms: The information on JIF and MEL is assessed the largest amount of all the towns in the program. Why is that?

President Scapicchio: We are probably one of the largest. I think that is most of the answer. We are one of the largest communities that participate if not the largest.

Mr. Elms: Randolph and Roxbury are not as big as we are or bigger in the way of numbers of people? I will leave that for you to look at.

Mr. Greenbaum: Could I just interrupt here a second? It's a question that I had as well. I was told that this year we are under contract and regardless of what the answer to that question is there is nothing we could do about it this year and I have recommended a review of our insurance needs through JIF and through MEL at the appropriate time but that is an item which cannot be changed this year and I agree with you that it is something that needs to be looked at.

Mr. Elms: The information submitted by the Mt. Olive Library indicates they spent $337,573.00 in 2001 up to the end of October. If you extrapolate that figure to the end of December the library would spend $405,000 in change for the year 2001. Why is there a request for $526,000 which is a 30 percent increase over last year? These are items that I noticed going through the Budget and I wanted to put them on the record and you can consider them as you wish.

President Scapicchio: Is that their original request Mr. Elms?

Mr. Elms: Yes.

President Scapicchio: Their original request was reduced by the Administration; it was further reduced by this Council.

Mrs. Jenkins: They asked for approximately six percent and we reduced it down to four percent. I can tell you that I am also on the Library Board and they definitely spend much closer than the number that Mr. Elms is providing. I am talking about the annual expenditures, but I understand what you are saying. You are looking at an October report and you are taking it through until the end of the year.

Mr. Greenbaum: We have actually received an updated report as to additional expenditures after the budget information was submitted.

Mr. Elms: According to the medical/dental life insurance spreadsheets, the Township pays these insurances for the library's eleven employees. These 11 employees represent 412 man hours per week, 37.5 hours per employee. The library is open 63 hours a week which means that there should be more than 6.5 employees present at the library at all times. Having been there a few times I don't think this is so. If some of these employees are part time, why is the Township paying for their insurances? The other thing I noticed in the library budget is that the $96,000 insurance bill for these employees is listed twice. Once under the insurance spreadsheet and once under the library budget, the exact same figure. I don't know whether that has been taken care of or not. For the Townships legal services, Board of Health, Planning Board Zoning Board and Ethics Board we are now budgeting almost a half a million dollars. Has the Council considered hiring full time attorneys for legal services rather than contracting these out? I realize that Mr. Dorsey got all kinds of glowing accolades tonight but…

President Scapicchio: Bob, I could tell you that the Council has not considered that, and that is not something that I would personally support. I think that what happens when you hire an in house attorney you end up with a staff for that attorney and I think at the end of the day the expense becomes greater than being able to outsource it. This year in particular we spent a significant amount of time with the budget for legal fees. A large portion of what you see in that budget has been put there in reference to some Planning Board litigation that is taking place?

Mr. Elms: Yes. I saw $200,000 sitting in there for anticipated litigation.

President Scapicchio: This Council and the Administration sort of struggled with each other pulling in both directions and we think we came to what we all agree is an appropriate amount based on what we anticipate happening this year.

Mr. Elms: Okay. Fleet Maintenance for 2001 was $196,000 in change and we are budgeting $440,000 for the coming year. That may have been changed, but that is what is in the original line item budget.

Mrs. Jenkins: We budgeted in current fund for fleet maintenance $393,000. That is what I have on my sheet.

Mr. Elms: Last years expenditures was $196,000?

Mrs. Jenkins: No. We definitely spent much more than that.

Mr. Elms: The administrative capital improvements fund shows $15,000 irrigation for trees and bushes. $12,500 for cable access channel, computer cable lines, modems graphics, add another $10,000 for seasonal decorations. Do we really need these things in the time we are trying to save some money?

President Scapicchio: We shaved a lot of that stuff down in some instances to zero.

Mr. Dorsey: The capital budget in total was probably cut by somewhere in the vicinity of 60 or 70 percent because we felt that the bigger projects and some of the smaller ones we could not afford to do at this time, so we did cut that much out of there.

Mr. Elms: Having gone through a bar code program at Picatinny I am familiar with what it takes to run a program like this. Finances requesting two bar-code readers? In order to use those readers, we have to have a lot of other support services with a bar code writer program or you have to buy pre-bar coded tags.

Mrs. Jenkins: We already purchased bar code scanners, we did that last year and we have a software program that was already written to allow for the bar code program and had saved a lot of time in terms of inputting payments and things like that. We have actually already done that and it is working out very well.

Mr. Elms: You are using for that rather then an inventory of items?

Mrs. Jenkins: Well we also have an inventory that is done by an outside company.

Mr. Elms: Using bar codes so we can do our own?

Mrs. Jenkins: We have them come in and they have a bar code scanner that they use. Maybe we are talking about two different things.

Mr. Elms: The Recreation Department needs a palm pilot for somebody. That is in the capital budget for $350.00, that is not very much, but I thought everybody buys their own palm pilots.

Mrs. Jenkins: Where did you see that because that was not in there?

Mr. Elms: It was in the capital for the Recreation Department.

Mrs. Jenkins: Maybe it was in the recreation operating budget, is that what you are thinking? I don't remember it being in the capital.

Mr. Elms: Okay, we can discuss that later. I am almost done. The Mayor's salary is shown as $7,000, Council member salary is $4,000 and the Council President is paid and additional $500.00. The Township policy manual defines the elected officials as unclassified and full time is described as an employee who works 37.5 or 40 hours a week. The policy manual states all full time unclassified officials and employees including department heads are eligible for Township benefits. I went through the budget and tallied the employees in the budget and it does not add up to the tally of the number of employees covered by Township insurance program. I would like to know which officials or non-full time employees had been granted this non-taxable benefit.

President Scapicchio: I get health coverage.

Mr. Guenther: I do as well.

Mr. Elms: That is a $10,000 - $12,000 benefit over and above the salaries that you receive, right?

President Scapicchio: I don't know that it is $10,000 - $12,000.

Mr. Elms: That is what I was told is the cost of a family plan.

President Scapicchio: Sherry do you know what the cost of a family plan is please?

Mrs. Jenkins: It is about $8,000.

Mr. Elms: The average that was shown on the spread sheet if you averaged all the employees was around $8,800. Our interest and principle payments for our dept service on what the Township currently owes for water and for the current fund, Water and Sewer exceeds $3.6 million dollars not counting unspent funds for Turkey Brook, a new library, etc.

Mr. Elms (cont'd): When are we going to stop or even slow the Township spending so we can get this debt service cut down?

President Scapicchio: Anyone else from the Public?

Rob Greenbaum: I have a question for Mr. Elms on one of the items that he identified actually. He had discussed Health Insurance, $96,000 in to different places in the budget which you felt may have been a repetitive error. Could you identity that area for me please?

Mrs. Jenkins: I was explaining that to Cindy. In the insurance section, I do the recap that shows where I am going to break everything out. That does not mean that I have allocated all that to that insurance line.

Mr. Greenbaum: I just want to make sure that we have not double counted.

Mrs. Jenkins: Absolutely not.

Mr. Greenbaum: Could you identify the two spots?

Mr. Elms: One is under that insurance spreadsheet, and the other is in the budget for the library.

Mr. Greenbaum: Thank you.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake, NJ: This is probably nobody's business but I am a registered republican and the reason that I am stating that is to put into context what I want to add. That is and I don't know all the details, but nobody, and Mr. Candura is included in that, should receive a letter like he read here tonight in front of this body. We are all guaranteed the right of free speech. You are all guaranteed the right to contact our elected officials at any level of government and express to them our opinions, concerns, needs, desires, things we may want done in our County State, or Town. Whether or not we agree with what the person does that person has the right to do that. He does not have to receive a letter from another elected official basically telling him to bug out. The Mayor of this Town is not the king of this Town. He is an elected official, he has the right to have his opinion and we all have the right to have our opinion. That is what the country was built for. That is what we are fighting for overseas right now. Less we never forget this, and I want to personally condemn that letter that I heard written here tonight and it is nothing political between me and Lou I like and we are friends. I don't share his political affiliations and he knows that, I want you to know that. What I am saying to you tonight is not political. Thank you.

President Scapicchio: Thank you Rich and I think I could speak for the Council and I think they probably have the same feeling you do and my personal position would be that if the democrat Mr. Candura has a friend in the State House that can help Mt. Olive Township out I would certainly hold his hand and walk down to Trenton to seek that help, so we don't endorse that letter nor do I think we have seen that letter. Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, close the public


Mr. Guenther: I just want to add to the last comment you made for the record that I agree with Mr. Bonte and I think that is completely out of line, that letter from the Mayor. Maybe you should wait and come back the next time when the Mayor is present and confront him with it.

Mrs. Miller: Maybe he should listen to the tape.

President Scapicchio: I am certain he has two representatives down at the other end of the dais and will certainly inform him tomorrow of what was said. Anything else Bernie?

Mr. Guenther: No, that is all.

President Scapicchio: Okay, that brings us to the Turkey Brook Project Status.


President Scapicchio: I understand that Cynthia would like to go into executive session on this. Cynthia, can you tell us the purpose and the reason that would justify executive session please?

Ms. Spencer: A great portion of the report will be dealing with issues that are up for negotiation with the contractor.

Mr. Dorsey: That portion that deals with municipal strategy in terms of claims and the manor in which they will be negotiated that is an appropriation issue for executive session, anything else should be an open session and we can determine what that is after we do the close session.

President Scapicchio: Could I have a motion to go into executive session?

Mrs. Miller moved for approval Mr. Guenther seconded that motion.

Mr. Rattner: We have been hearing some stories about the status of Turkey Brook and some of the problems. If we are going to have actual negotiations that sounds serious then we could go into closed session for that. But if we are talking about that this point the status reports, I would like to know what the status report is. I am not ready to sit down for any negotiations until I find out what the issues are. I have heard little bits and pieces. I have heard that we will find out when it is in due time. I think the first
time we found out anything was late last night. I would like to find out what the status is of Turkey Brook first, and then if we have it we can say exactly what we are going into closed session for.

Mr. Greenbaum: From the little that I have heard, unless we are going to be discussing something different than what I have heard, I don't believe that it is appropriate to do that type of business in closed session. I would like to have some greater idea as to what we are going to be discussing tonight. Is there anything that you feel comfortable reporting on in open session or would it be your preference to go into executive session, put whatever report you have on the table and then have Mr. Dorsey and Council make a determination then.

Mrs. Spencer: I would feel more comfortable with that.

Mr. Ratter: I would like to hear the status. If we have been told that there are different issues or problems, that is one thing. If we are going to talk about the next step, if there are issues about somebody in either non-performance or additional work that may have to be done that would take regular negotiations, I could understand that part. But, I don't want to go into a closed session and realize that three- fourths of the discussion we had really did not belong there.

Mr. Dorsey: Why don't we go into closed session, and we will simply not discuss with the Administration those things that are open session items. We will discuss the issues that are closed session. The rest of it will have to be dealt with in public.

Mr. Ratter: We are going to go into closed session which is for the reasons of litigation, contract negotiation. So we are going to go start off with litigation and contract negotiation when we have no idea the situation we are in or even if we are at that point yet. I don't understand that reasoning. If we have an issue and we have to go into closed session because we are talking about a negotiation, that is one thing, but right now, you are asking us to go into closed session and negotiate something that we have no idea what the subject matter is even about. I am not ready to sit in on that kind of closed session.

President Scapicchio: Cynthia what does the subject matter have to deal with in terms of negotiation and litigation.

Mrs. Spencer: There are conditions that have been found on site and within the contract that needs to be addressed that will require negotiation to move forward.

Mr. Ratter: We could say that with almost any issue. We buy a truck, we are probably going to end up going to end up probably in negotiation in going to bid on almost any project we have but we don't go into closed session unless we don't approve of something.

Mr. Dorsey: We don't seem to be getting a vote to go into closed session. I think you either take a vote or say we are not going into closed session.

President Scapicchio: Cynthia, any final thoughts?

Mrs. Spencer: No, if that is the desire of the Council then we will do it in open session.

President Scapicchio: Well we have a motion on the table with a second. Let's go into executive session.

ROLL CALL: Defeated. Mr. Rattner, Mr. Greenbaum and Mr. Guenther voted no. Mr. Perkins, Mrs. Miller and President Scapicchio voted yes.

Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk: This is a tie and it does not carry.

President Scapicchio: It is obvious to me that we have a new Business Administrator sitting up there that feels uncomfortable and probably is not exactly sure what should or should not be discussed and I think we should opt to give her that courtesy.

Mr. Rattner: The way I read the Open Public Meetings Act, feeling comfortable has no part of the Act. There are very specific conditions that have to be met to go with the closed session. Until we get to that point, we really don't have the right to go under the code to go into closed session.

Mr. Greenbaum: I would like to have a status report as to what is going on at the site, which certainly does not involve any decision making processes on behalf of this Council, because simply understand what the issues are and then if we are going to discuss how to resolve those issues, that might be a more appropriate item for closed session.

Mr. Dorsey: Lets move on. The motion to go into closed session requested and represented by the Administrators has failed. Therefore there is no closed session at this point in time. Someone can make a motion if we have reached a point in the discussion where you think it is appropriate, but there is no closed session.

President Scapicchio: Cynthia, you have the floor.

Mrs. Spencer: I would like to start with Ron Heymann. He is going to discuss the rebidding work with Olympus.

Ron Heymann, 82 Kevin Drive, Flanders, NJ: I was asked to come here as the chairman of the Turkey Brook Committee as conversations and discussions came up concerning an issue as to whether or not there had been any authorization, I guess initially from our committee concerning the rebidding of the project and the work done by the Olympus group.

Mr. Dorsey: You have to understand something. There is a prelude to this discussion that we had two weeks ago. Mr. Rattner missed that discussion as well, so lets try to set the background very quickly. Sometime, I would say two or three months ago, the CFO began to receive bills for work done by Olympus in connection with the so called rebidding process. At the last meeting we reviewed the contracts and the resolutions as adopted by this Township Council in connection with Olympus's contracts, the first resolution of the first contract awarded $96,000 to Olympus. The second contract was a resolution that awarded $505,000 for services not more than $30,000 in reimbursable expenses. When Sherry initially contacted me, the bills as I recall from Olympus couched as being for the rebidding process were in the neighborhood, of $62,000. I understand that those bills must have risen since that point in time because Mrs. Spencer has been in negotiation with Olympus and came to a lower number. As we all know the Council only acts by Resolution. There were only two Resolutions. These billings by Olympus, bring them above what was authorized by the Council. We got into the academic but practical discussion as to whether or not the Township ever authorized additional work by Olympus. At that point your name was pulled out of the hat as the responsible person in that connection. Since that time, you have provided me with a copy of minutes of a meeting. There were 22 people there. Including yourself and chaired the meeting, you chaired the meeting as chairman of the sports committee held on November 30, 2001. Maybe there should have been a notice for a regular Public Meeting because there were more than three council people here, but anyway the meeting occurred. The sum and substance of these minutes are at end of the day, Olympus was directed to do the work that was then felt necessary for the rebid. That's a fair summary of what happened at the meeting, correct?

Mr. Heymann: Correct. I am not under oath, so I don't know how I am going to answer these questions, but you are right about the scenario.

Mr. Dorsey: But you are a member of the Bar, so you are always under oath, so remember that. I have read these minutes. They are amazing in terms of what is not mentioned. What is not mentioned is the key issue. No place in the minutes does Olympus say, how are we going to be paid for this. Are we going to be paid for this? There seems to be somewhat of an inference at the outset of the meeting that Olympus's fowled up the first set of bids particularly in connection with the fact that they did not supply to the contractors for bidding purposes estimated quantities. Fair statement Mr. Engineer?

Mr. Buczynski: Fair Statement.

Mr. Dorsey: In that connection, and that was a rather bitter disputed point particularly by Bob Casey, but also by Gene Buczynski that they had not provided quantities and if I recall correctly we then had to be lectured by somebody by the name of DeFreitas. I don't know how they do it in North Carolina. They let the contractors create the quantities, we said that is not the way it is done here. I think it is fair to say, because I explained to the Township Council, that Council and Townships could be bound by what happens even though they don't expressly authorize it. Here we have at least a quasi authorization, here we have what one would almost have to consider a quayside organization or meeting involving four Councilmen and the Mayor essentially telling everybody to go forward with the redesign or the rebid process. There is no way I think a Township could ever avoid that. That still leaves open the questions as to who should be responsible for the cost, and it leaves open the question as to what the value was of the work that was done by Olympus for the rebid.

Ron Heymann: I don't disagree, I think though for the Council for the several people that were not there, I should just indicate what happened. There are new members and there some people who aren't part of this committee. On November 30, 2001 we made arrangements, to bring in five or six or seven people from the Olympus Group. I see Mr. Guenther looking at the minutes, because when I spoke to him the other day he forgot he was at the meeting, but as you can note, Mr. Guenther was there, Mr. Scapicchio was there, I was there. Mr. Spino walked into the meeting later than when the meeting started, as a matter a fact, we set up about three tables right here, a young lady was brought in from the Administration who sat up in Mr. Guenther's chair and took the minutes. Mr. Spino walked in about half way through the meeting, and there was conversation at the time as to whether or not he should be here because of the sunshine act, and he did not participate, he sat out in the crowd and he said look, the meeting is almost over and it was. Now I just want to set the record so everyone knows exactly what happened. Okay, so what happened at that time was real simple. We brought the DeFreitas group in, and the Olympus group to indicate to them our displeasures as to what happened on the initial bid. The next step was we had it mandated from the Council at that point in time to cut costs. Somehow we wanted to be able to reduce, what was going on in order to come in with a better bid. So we sat down and with Mr. Buczynski and his firm had ideas from us, and ideas from the committee, we came up with some alternative solutions for Olympus and DeFreitas to take back to North Carolina and to revise plans. It is obvious that the intention was to proceed, because at that point in time we had rejected a bid, we had a Turkey Brook project that was not moving and it was our intention to get a second bid package up here. No question, nothing was discussed, they never said to us hey guys, we have to be paid for this again, and we never said hey, do what you want we are going to pay you for it. Discussions went on, the Mayor got up. We set a time table as to everything that went on. The only thing I could say to you is on Page 7 of the minutes, I indicated to the Olympus Group come back with revised estimates based on what we discussed here today. That is what they were to do.

Mr. Dorsey: When you say revised estimates, you mean the estimates of the quantities, or the estimates of money?

Mr. Heymann: Estimates of the quantities.

Mr. Dorsey: Because that is what Buczynski and Casey were yelling that they had not put quantities, in order for there to be appropriate bids. For there to be appropriate bids, right Gene?

Mr. Buczynski: That's correct.

President Scapicchio: Plus, also the unit prices that they use on some items was incorrect. Their unit pricing schedules on most items was significantly less than the realized unit prices submitted by the bidders. So they erred in two area

Mr. Heymann: I am not positive that I remember that. What happened John, is that we also directed them because we made improvements and corrections in the reductions in the project, cut the road, do this do that. We then discussed that come I would give the Turkey Brook report at a Council Meeting after that meeting. That is the end of it. At that point in time, I don't think anybody who was sitting on the Council up to December 31, 2001 could have any inkling that we were not going forward and rebidding the Turkey Brook project. Again, no one discussed how it was getting paid, it never came up as an issue, although we did take some notes, we did not have a resolution, you are right.

Mr. Dorsey: I just want to tell you this. Today I checked my files, I have no correspondence from anybody in the Township about Turkey Brook other than in the same time period, late November, preparing a Resolution for the retention on Schoor Depalma. What I want to see is the correspondence, whether it's letters or memos or what, then become from Olympus in connection with these bills. I have never seen those. I assume the amount of those bills Sherry have grown from the amount when you first

Mr. Dorsey (cont'd): contacted me as $62,000 to something larger than $62,000. So I have never seen any of that correspondence. I think the Council would want to see that correspondence. I think since we are doing this in Public, I have two thoughts. What Olympus actually had to do in this case was almost as I understood it, I suppose it is an over simplification that was a cut and paste. They cut out certain fields that everybody believed would bring the price above what you had, and they used the same set of specs except now providing quantities as we would traditionally do it in order to do the rebid. I think where we are, and without prejudice to what may be revealed by the correspondence for Olympus is that the Township required this, directed them to do it. From my standpoint it is not what their hourly fees are, it is really from a standpoint of value engineering, whatever that word means. It is really a question of what the value was that it had to do because I am of the non professional opinion. It was not a great deal. The other aspect is to say we don't owe them anything because they failed to bring the project into whatever the dollar amount was that it was originally set for. So there are two possibilities here. That is where I think we are. But I think we have to see the other correspondence.

Mr. Greenbaum: I don't think we need to see anything. It is my impression and it was my impression at the time that just from following the issue that the reason we need the rebid was because they screwed up originally and unless someone can tell me that's not the case, I don't care what the invoices say, I am never going to vote to pay them. That is the bottom line.

Mr. Rattner: I am not going top take as hard a line as Rob, and I understand when you have a committee trying to move forward, so I am not going to fault Mr. Heymann because he is spending a lot of time doing the project, but where I think the disconnect came about is when we start seeing we were having problems with the plans coming in late, the things going longer than we expected, and all the different issues, it kept coming up at Council Meetings, and we asked. We were told that we were withholding payments because we did not get what we expected. We were also told no, they're running out of money. No, the contract is good, they are not talking about money, so I think it was a surprise to us, especially when we only found out probably a month or so ago that these bills were actually sitting there when we are talking about other changes. That is where we really start having a problem. I don't know what we would have done. I would have imagined at the time we would have looked at it and if it was additional work we would have gone with it, but we were given the representation, and I could go back to the representation of our Council Meeting from the Administration saying no, no, no because I was not the only person asking those specific questions.

Mr. Dorsey: We must, in making our own legal analysis here, ask you to differentiate between representations that may have been made by persons other than Olympus to this Council, because those are not the same as representations made by Olympus.

Mr. Ratter: I want to see those, but where my colleague from the valley says never, never, never. I am saying I am not necessarily looking at that, but why I was concerned is we were constantly told, we will not, we will not. We have to look the at issue. We would have to reconstruct the whole thing.

Mr. Dorsey: Heymann has brought a great deal of focus, generated additional material, we did not have before for which we are very thankful. We hope this field gets done better than his sadding of that other field. So Cindy, will you dig out for us copies of all the correspondence that we referred to and we will have to keep working on this.

Mrs. Spencer: I know that I had given to Dave copies of all the correspondence that came one way from Olympus in terms of seeking payment for the work that had been sent to Bob Casey and to Sandy Kaplan. But, they were all one way. It does not appear from the records that I have been able to find that there were ever any answers given.

Mr. Dorsey: David already has that stuff?

Mrs. Spencer: A couple weeks ago.

Mr. Scapicchio: You did give me something, I am not sure I still have it. I think what we need is copies of all the correspondence from Olympus and any and all invoices or requests for payment that Olympus has made from November 30, 2001 forward.

Mr. Dorsey: Have you been shredding?

Mr. Scapicchio: Well, I could have shredded that after I read it. I told you, my position has been clear. I have always felt that this has been a not to exceed price on Olympus's part, and that the contract was front loaded to assure them that they were going to continue. I know there is disagreement, but that is my understanding.

Mrs. Spencer: Gene Buczynski is here and he is going to give an up to date report from an engineering perspective of the status.

Mr. Buczynski: Good evening. I'll try to summarize where we are at the site at this point and then we can go into some particular concerns and problems. As far as the site goes; the grading. I guess the overall rough grading and grading the fields has been done. There has been some placement of onsite topsoil on a good portion of the fields. The detention basin has started to be excavated and I would say probably it is around 70% done at this point. They began working on the sewer lines, sewer connections and they had to stop at one point because they encountered rock within Flanders Road and we had asked Olympus to look at some redesign in that area because the pipes were really deep and we had actually brought that up as a concern when we looked at the plans prior to bid and they felt they couldn't do anything to that. We called them again during construction regarding the sewer lines and their first comment was that it could not be done. We ended up sending them a redesign; we thought we could lift it so we told him we could lift it. Then the contract proceeded with some test bits on the site to give us a better feeling what where the rock is in the sewer lines and that is under discussion right now as far as where we are going because the issue on that is blasting the rock which I will get into.

Mr. Dorsey: Are we talking about work being done by Conte?

Mr. Buczynski: This is all Conte's contract. That is summary is where we are with things that have been done in the site. There is storm drainage that has been installed on the site. There is some additional storm drainage to be installed which we had some discussions back and forth with Olympus about revising some inverts. We had some problems encountering some rock which is still an issue as far as the redesign of these particular areas. So that is where we are there. Problems that come up okay with the detention basin as they constructed the detention basin I am sure everybody is aware of it, they hit rock. Right now they have excavated 6,000 cubic yards of rock on the site that is all in one area of the basin. I brought up the concern as far as what tests were done. There was 15 test bits that were done prior to construction done by the Town's forces under supervision of Bob Casey at the time. I was told to reduce between 12 to 15 feet in depth, there was not rock encountered on the site and in that area. I know Mr. Conte, we discussed the job of Mr. Conte because when we came up here to discuss the order of the contract at the time, certain people were very concerned about the order of contingencies and the rock on the site, and what I stated that night was basically information I had seen to date, we felt it was going to be a large amount of rock on the site we discussed that with Mr. Conte before we awarded the contract with him in the presence of my self, and maybe even Ron Heymann stepped in one meeting, I am not sure. Mr. Conte said he did additional tests on the site through out the site and he did no think he would encounter rock. His bid price for rock is $175.00 a cubic yard. Very simply, look at those two numbers plus the fact that there is probably another 1500 yards of material in that basin, you are looking at $1.3 million. I think what Cindy wanted to do as far as closed session goes is there is other issues regarding that rock possible negotiations where it would not be $1.3 million, but that is the main issue. Now the concerns I have, if you think I am going away from open session, by all means, say so. What it is with the rock, I think the way they set up the bid they had additional items, but there was not a quantity listed. It is strictly to get a bid price. So per DOT, and blue book in the State of NJ if you are over 20% or 25% of a you have a right to negotiate that particular item, the unit price. I feel based on that amount of quantity $175.00 a cubic yard is quite excessive. The contractor has submitted a proposal to us and I am not sure if that is how far I could go as far as open session or not. I could continue, but I think that is something we would probably want to discuss more as negotiations. I don't want to go on the limit, but I wanted to make everybody aware what the issue is, that's one issue is the rock on the site.

Mr. Dorsey: You say you are still having Olympus do work on the site, right?

Mr. Buczynski: Olympus has a contract for construction services.

Mr. Dorsey: I want to ask Sherry this question. That is part of the second contract that we gave them for $505,000, am I correct about that Sherry?

Mrs. Jenkins: Yes, one of the phases of that contract.

Mr. Dorsey: We had a contract for $505,000, we already know that they billed somewhere between $62,000 -$82,000. What is the total amount of bills that they submitted for the rebidding?
Mrs. Spencer: They have not submitted all the bills because I met with them and got them to stop submitting bills. I could have them mail them in, but we weren't paying some of the old bills.

Mr. Dorsey: What is the total amount of bills that they submitted for the rebidding?

Mrs. Spencer: It would have surpassed the original contract by about $208,000.
Mr. Dorsey: They are doing work while construction is going on. That work is separate and apart for whatever was done for the rebidding, correct?

Mrs. Jenkins: Correct.

Mr. Dorsey: Sherry, is there still money in the account for this work, for the work they are currently doing.

Mrs. Jenkins: Yes, there is $30,000 left. That is $30,000 before you pay anything in terms of the rebidding, correct?

Mr. Dorsey: You have $30,000 left of the original contract that they have not been paid. That is before there is any payment made as to the bills that they have submitted or have threaten to submit for the rebid of the project, am I correct about that? Okay, we will let that go. Let's go into executive session now for the purpose of discussing the negotiations if any with Conte in connection with rock removal.

Mr. Rattner: Lets see if he has any other issues he wants to bring up before we start talking about specific negotiations.

Mr. Dorsey: Not regarding those specific items.

Mr. Rattner: You said there were other issues.

Mr. Buczynski: The status of items on the site I could go over rather quickly besides what I mentioned to you already.

Mr. Ratter: Let's hear the good news.

Mr. Buczynski: I don't know if this is good news, it is just to tell you what is happening. That is one issue of the rock. There is also the issue of the rock mentioned regarding sewer lines and which is going to be part of the over all discussion in closed session. Now there is also an issue of irrigating the fields, the plants the not showing irrigation of one of the baseball fields. It was considered not part of the contract. There was a cost associated of about $32,000 if we move ahead on that item. We are just trying to give you a listing of some of the other issues.

Mr. Rattner: Just so I understand; this field, was it in the original design that a conscious decision was made not to irrigate the field and now we are deciding for whatever reason to do it?

Mrs. Spencer: It appears that in field No. 1, the irrigation was removed from the rebid package without the knowledge without the sports association to go ahead and do that. That decision was made by Mr. Casey.

Mr. Buczynski: A little bit more than that to just to fill in the reason why it was done. I am not sure who did it, if it was Casey or Olympus but it was…

Mr. Rattner: That is why I want to get to it. There may have been a conscious decision to do that.

Mr. Buczynski: I will put it this way. Olympus felt that you could not irrigate that field because it was with in the flooding and we'll say a 25 or 50 year storm of the overflow of the detention basin design. I disagree with the reasoning rationale, but that's why they took it out because they said it could get flooded, and basically the backflow would ruin the irrigation system. That is why it was taken out of the contract. That is why I think it was agreed to with Casey and with the design engineers at the time that was taken out. As we are getting into it, we are talking to the contractor and furthermore the irrigation people, that is not a concern because of valving. As Jim Lynch has said to, he says golf courses have irrigation they are on the water all the time. So it really is not an issue in hearty floods. So that is why it was not in the contract before and we are saying if we want to put it back in and I think everybody is in favor of irrigating that field, it would be about $32,000. We are still waiting for an exact price from the contractor.

Mr. Guenther: But that is $32,000 extra.

Mr. Buczynski: It will be an extra that is correct. Right now, he told us yesterday and we had this meeting with him that he was not sure about the price and was going to look into it. The $32,000 was based on the fact that the bid had three fields to be irrigated for roughly $96,000. One field is $32,000 a field. Regarding the entrance road, there is a lot of unsuitable material there. Probably about eight feet of

Mr. Buczynski (cont'd): unsuitable material will be excavated in that area. He has a price in the bid for that removal and replacing the good material. Based on that price in the bid, you're looking in the vicinity of $50,000 for that area. The contractor has requested to provide a price for removal of some additional trees and three locations of finding other property. He gave us a price for that of $37,440.

Mr. Rattner: Gene, before you go, one of the things, you know we are talking about these types of things, this is something I brought up when we were discussing the bid. A lot of these things, I don't think are abnormal in this type of work and this kind of big project. That is why I was very strong in keeping an amount there for contingencies, because you are going to find bad soil. You are going to find a lot of things. You are going to make changes because once you start laying something out, you notice it does not work. It is going to be interesting to hear all these. I even have where Mr. Dorsey, when we were talking about contingency and he even said I probably thought it would be light and it was. You have field changes. You have a $5 million to $7 million dollars on that big a piece of property you are going to find a lot of things you are going to do no different then when you build a house and you start deciding well we forgot the closet here or we need this or we want to upgrade this or something like that. Some of these things aren't abnormal.

Mr. Buczynski: Few more then we could probably go into closed session. A minor item $3,900, the spec calls for an independent lab from independent agencies to do soil compaction for the walls. We contacted somebody to get a price from an independent agency and that would be $3,900 to do that work for various walls on the site. The spec says by an independent agency. One issue, I know it was back when Bob Casey was here, here did a lot of work on bringing water to serve the irrigation system and there was discussions way back when about utilizing the well on Wyndam Point/Toll Brothers I am not sure if everybody is familiar with that. There was a design which we were asked to do way back when by Mr. Casey to bring and get a permit to bring the water up to the site. Now we are looking at alternatives. We are not sure if he ever put that money any where, I think I discussed it with once with Sherry and she said that that money was never allocated anywhere. That design to bring it up there because of the pumping and the difference of height is going to be in the neighborhood of $100,000. We brought up an alternate to look into drilling another well on site up in the vicinity of the detention basin outside of the rock area where we could get the water for the irrigation system up there and not have to pipe all that other water and put a pump in down by the other well that was by Wyndam Point. I know there are two other wells on site, but the two wells that I know of are down by pond in that area. There is one that I think was abundant up above, if somebody knows otherwise, by all means say so. Up above I don't think was a very good well. What we are trying to get is some additional information from the well driller which Frank Dolan was getting for us. My suggestion would be to get a well driller out there to do a test well and do some testing to see what we have out there. I think you are talking more in the neighborhood of $20,000 instead of a $100,000 to bring that other system all the way up. The other issue which actually Mr. Conte brought up and I disagree, I have mentioned to Cynthia today, I disagree with it. He brought up the concern that the entrance for a loop road and loop road into the site. There is a fairly large area which way back our plans show to have tennis courts and basketball courts in it. That was taken out of the contract and now it was just going to be lawn area. He took a position yesterday that that disturbed area is not part of this contract. I am not sure how we could say that because the plans look in three or four different areas of plans or specs call for all disturbed areas to be stabilized. I feel it is in his contract to stabilize the cedar area. He brought that up last night as an issue and that is something we'll discuss with him further and site certain notes in the plans and the specs prepared by Stuart and Klein and Olympus to discuss we think it's part of the contract. He claimed there was a letter stating it was taking out of the contract. I don't know of a letter we sent, and I don't know of a letter anybody else sent regarding, we are going to investigate that and I am just bringing up the issues that I know of at this point. I think that is it Cynthia, right?

Mr. Dorsey: Let me just tell the Council that Mr. Buczynski's associate Mr. Malavasi amended the contract to my satisfaction to now insert Schoor DePalma as the construction contract managers.

Mr. Buczynski: I don't know if I want that anymore.

Mr. Dorsey: It may be too late for that, now they have official recognition in the contract with Conte. Of course I suppose if you want to withdraw…

President Scapicchio: I wanted to back up a second for Cynthia and Sherry. Sherry, you indicated that there is $30,000 or $50,000 left in the bank for Olympus towards their original contract with us. Is that correct?

Mrs. Spencer: Yes.

President Scapicchio: How much further does that money take us not including these additional charges that they have presented to you? How much farther does that take us with them? Does that take us to the end of the construction phase?

Mrs. Spencer: Within the original contract there was $50,000 allocated for construction management so yes, it should take you to the end of the contract.

President Scapicchio: $50,000, that's what is left right?

Mrs. Spencer: $30,000.

President Scapicchio: Okay, so $50,000 was left for the construction process.

Mrs. Spencer: That is how much was set up in the contract for supervision.

President Scapicchio: Do they have any kind of a time limit on construction time within their contract that may trigger some additional charges on their part.

Mr. Buczynski: I know a little bit about that portion. Their contract calls for them to come once every two weeks to the site and also calling up for a conference meeting once a week. That is part of it. They are supposed to also address the concerns that come up during construction. Part of their construction and Administration and not extra should be another sanitary line that needs to be reconsidered. I can't speak for them, but I would think that is part of their $30,000 - $50,000. The only thing that I see that would come up is additional expenses which they fit their limit. If they are flying up here every two weeks, I am sure somewhere along the line they are going submit an expense report for their time coming up here.

Mrs. Spencer: That was actually originally estimated at the $66,000 for what would be required for this construction management process.

President Scapicchio: How is the construction payment scheduled to be applied? Is that outlined? How are we supposed to disperse this money during the construction period to them?

Mr. Dorsey: Does somebody have a copy of their contract here?

Mr. Buczynski: Not here.

Mr. Dorsey: Well, I think we have to get that to answer that question. I want to go back to David's question. Sherry, so that there is no misunderstanding; you said to David there is $30,000 left in their contract, it would be cash on hand for their contract. Maybe what I say next is incorrect, but if it is incorrect, tell me. I assume that is $30,000 that you were discussing as applying against their billings against their rebid, am I correct about that?

Mrs. Jenkins: Initially the discussion was that we could probably use the $30,000 that was left.

Mr. Dorsey: That is the same $30,000?

Mrs. Jenkins: Yes.

Mr. Dorsey: So if there is $30,000 left for their contract supervision at this point in time, there is no money left to pay any extras. I am straight. Are you straight?

President Scapicchio: I am straight on that.

Mr. Rattner: We keep talking about the Olympus change orders or additional amounts. Have we got any finalization because we had another one of about the same magnitude that came from Voller's?

Mr. Dorsey: We were discussing that with them today actually. If you recall I sent a letter to the town, I think they were looking at $214,000 we originally said we were not recommending certain change orders, I think it was something like $99,000, they think we recommended. We felt this was justifiable but we had to meet with them to go over certain quantities of theirs. This is a negotiation, we listed 13 or 14 items and a letter was public. We looked at their earth work again, they submitted the information to us and we had a meeting with them. I agree with the earth work that they show there was a balanced site. I spoke with them this evening where we still feel there is probably another in our opinion we feel we should not pay them for another $40,000 of the other numbers. First of all I do not have my paperwork

Mr. Dorsey (cont'd): with me I shouldn't say that. Regarding the 214, I think they agreed to the number we had before about $30,000 that were taking out, they shouldn't get paid for, and they agreed to. There is another roughly $30,000 that we feel they still should not get paid for. So now you are down to $214,000 minus $60,000 which is roughly $154,000. I think that is the number we are talking about. Of course they disagree with me on those two items this evening. But that is another number that has to go into the concerns for additional monies. I don't think there is monies for that right Sherry, there is no monies in the old contract for Voller's. That would be an extra. That would be additional monies that we have to allot to it.

Mrs. Jenkins: You would have to do a change order to increase the amount of the contract.

Mr. Buczynski: I know that.

Mr. Dorsey: There is no specific monies designated for Voller's at this point except for this large contingency for the large contingency that Mr. Rattner put in for the last authorization. That is no problem. Rattner took care of that. The fact of the matter is so everybody understands, there is an open item with Voller's, it is still under discussion, maybe $140,000 maybe $150,000. It is still under discussion.

Mr. Buczynski: That is correct. There are no monies in the current Bond Ordinance to cover that I don't think.

Mrs. Jenkins: If I could just talk about that. In my monthly report I have been giving you an analysis of the Turkey Brook Project and right now we have available in current bond ordinances): that have already been authorized approximately I think the last one was about $250,000. So we could cover the potential change order with Voller's with the current ordinances that we have.

President Scapicchio: Gene with respect to some of those items listed on that change order from
Voller's, the issue of importing of soil cam up several times. It was always my understanding that the original engineers had a net removal or importation of soil, meaning that soil that was going to be taking from one area of the site could be used elsewhere on that site. At the very beginning Voller's disagreed with the elevations that the Engineers had and we had talked about having some aerial elevation shots done to determine where that mistake came about. Could you address that at all?

Mr. Buczynski: I was not involved in that. I could tell you Casey was involved, I could tell you what was transpiring back and forth. There was a lot of meetings with Voller's at the time and they were going over the discrepancies of a couple of feet I think it was. Ed Seiko was involved.

President Scapicchio: Let me tell you what I struggle with that. That is you have Voller's who is working at the AIG/Baker Site, ITC South, who has an excess of 400 cubic yards of soil that they cannot find a home for. We have engineers that designed a project for us that represented we needed no soil on that site, that there was soil on that site to build the fields we needed to build and I am not talking about topsoil, but soil to build the base of those fields. All of the sudden Voller's needs to get rid of that excess soil, and they find a home for it on Turkey Brook. So we have the contractor who has excess soil that I know he can't find a home for. We have our engineers telling us we don't need soil here, but you have that same contractor bringing that soil and it happened on a weekend.

Mr. Buczynski: They did not bring the soil from…It really was not the soil from AIG/Baker. The soil

President Scapicchio: Gene, I am not going to split hairs here with you though, the soil came whether it was…

Mr. Buczynski: Came from that area, but from the Masonic Lodge.

President Scapicchio: That was the AIG/Baker construction site.

Mr. Buczynski: Technically it is separated from ITC, it is.

President Scapicchio: It is not.

Mr. Buczynski: I am just saying it is part of a separate developer's agreement. The Masonic Lodge is a separate…It is from the same area, but it is a separate site.

President Scapicchio: It is all part of the same project.

Mr. Dorsey: David is absolutely correct because the ITC Trade Zone Rockefeller group had control of that site the same as it had control of the Texaco site. So it is getting to split hairs to say that there was a separate developer's agreement, but it was all controlled by the same people.

Mr. Buczynski: There was a set of additional soil, and they talked about the overage they had on the site. They were no talking about the material from the Masonic Lodge. It came from that area, I am not arguing with you Dave.

President Scapicchio: So that is what I am struggling with and nobody has been able to explain to me the discrepancy what our engineers told us and what actually happened there. Before I agree to give Voller's any additional money, I need to have an understanding of that and I do not have that yet. I have had this conversation several times with several different people.

Mr. Buczynski: It is hard for me to give that to you. It really has to come from Mr. Casey.

President Scapicchio: Here is my decision.

Mr. Dorsey: My decision is that this should be in executive session.

President Scapicchio: Let me just make this one point John. This one point is, we have engineers on site, on staff that have designed this project, that represented we needed no additional soil. I think the burden should be put on Voller's to prove that our engineers were wrong and that they did need to bring in soil. I don't think the burden should be on our backs. I think that is actually before Bob Casey left, I think that is actually what he represented to us at several meetings. The fact that it was going to be their liability, to prove that we did need that material, to prove that our engineers made a mistake. I think that is the position we should take.

Mr. Dorsey: The rest of it goes into executive session.

President Scapicchio: Okay, that is the point.

Mrs. Miller: We are having water problems at Turkey Brook, correct? The detention basin is full. The site of the new road is like a detention pond that was not supposed to be there. They are pumping it out with machinery, they've dyked it, because I have seen it going down the road. I go past the site three times a day on my school bus. I see the water problems that we have and you have not mentioned any of that. I want to hear about the water problems.

Mr. Buczynski: Of course the detention basin is not finalized yet because to the rock, so there is no place for the water to really go at this point, there was an original problem that was called back to our attention way back when the first storm where I think some homes right across the street from the entrance had problems, that had soil and silk on their site. It was an issue and basically what he did was he had to dig a sump area which is what you see out there, I think what he does is he pumps it into the detention basin, he also pumps water out of that detention basin.

Mrs. Miller: Are you sure he is pumping it in to the detention basin because it looks to me like the hose is going out of the new road area and it is going into a storm drain.

Mr. Buczynski: If it is, it is after it is filtered. It would not be silty water. I know he was pumping it back on site, I thought it was going to be a detention basin, but I can't tell you for sure. I would have to check into it.

Mrs. Miller: It just seems to me like we are doing patch jobs.

Mr. Buczynski: It is part of construction sequence unfortunately the way it is set up right now. I mean there are supposed to be inlets, there are going to be inlets at that intersection.

Mrs. Miller: It is like this new road is now a detention basin that was not in the plans. That is the way I see it. We have a pond of water in a place that was never in the construction plan. It was supposed to be a new road.

Mr. Buczynski: You need to have some area to prevent the water from going outside of Flanders Road. He is trying to keep the water on site, not going across the road at this point.

Mrs. Miller: I could see, it looks like it is a struggle. I want to know when it is going to change.

Mr. Buczynski: When we can get come additional progress on the site. Right now he is basically to the point where he is almost stopped, until we get some issues. I could go all night on additional items on site regarding the issue of using the on site topsoil and on site clay. We have had a lot of difficulty with getting certain materials approved via Olympus. The contractors are constantly submitting stuff back and forth and there has been some delays in getting the go ahead to move forward. So we are getting stymied and the rock is a big issue now that, and what to do with moving ahead as far as getting the sewers in and the storm drainers in so we could end finishing the basin and that is where I think we need to go into closed session on.

Mr. Guenther: Gene I hope you don't think I am trying to put you on the spot, but I have to ask this question. How is it possible that, how many test borings did you do to determine that there was or was not sufficient rock to be worried about. How does it happen that we do all these borings and we come up with a 1.3 million dollar bill for rock that…

Mr. Buczynski: That is a very good question. I spoke to the contractor to and I spoke to Bob Casey and even Bob was very amazed that there is rock up in that area. But he said they did test and what happened was they were getting clay and a lot of sand, they were getting very good material and they were doing it. I did not see where they were. I was not involved in doing the testing. They felt that they were sure there was not going to be anything in that area because they went further away into higher areas, so they felt if Conte went out on the site, because I asked him last night. I asked if you would have taken different areas, you probably would have gotten the rock. He said well we wanted to confirm what they had, and we went deeper to the areas, he went even deeper and he said we are getting really nice material and we are basically checking and verifying what the tests were and they said we never went to that area because we were seeing all sanding material. There is ledge on that site up in that area, the profile goes up and down. You might hit it in four feet, you might hit it twelve feet below, unless you hit that spot, it is one corner of the basin. Six thousand cubic yards seems like a hell of a lot of rock, lets face it that you should not know about.

Mr. Dorsey: six thousand cubic yards of rock equates to a lot of money, but 6000 cubic yards is not a whole lot considering the size of the total area there.

Mr. Buczynski: Even the base of it. It is just one corner of the detention basin. It is a lot of money to spend on rock.

President Scapicchio: How far below grade did they hit rock?

Mr. Buczynski: It varies. I don't know without looking. It went all over the place, now they have rock, I guess 15 feet deep of rock in some areas. I don't know, I don't want to criticize the way it was done originally with the plans with Olympus, but there should have been a geotec for him doing borings to the whole site, probably, initially. I don't think it was in their contract.

Mr. Guenther: Who's responsibility was it to provide for that? Olympus?

Mr. Buczynski: I brought it up to them. I'll tell you what I said to them. You have $5.5 million project that almost can't be built. I said you would think somebody would have done detailed borings at the very beginning of the job and basically they said it was not in their contract but they did mention that they should get some testing and they testing they got was the testing that was given to them which I discussed earlier, the fifteen tests. That is all I could tell you.

President Scapicchio: Anything else?

Mr. Greenbaum: What other areas of phase I have yet to be excavated where we're going to find additional rock?

Mr. Buczynski: The sewer lines, which we are going to go in to and also there is one specific area of storm line where we know there is going to be rock in it. It is not quantified yet, they are trying to get some test pits. The sewer lines have been quantified because he went out and did test pits to give us a profile which is why we end up saying, hey you could bring the line up. There is still some rock that has to be excavated to there. I would like to discuss that amount in closed session, because it is part of the negotiations that we are dealing with right now.

Mr. Greenbaum made a motion to go into executive session and Mr. Guenther seconded that motion. Executive session opened at 9:35 immediately followed by the Public Meeting reconvened and Adjourned at 10:35 pm.

Council President

I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on July 23, 2002.

Mount Olive Township Clerk




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