Mt. Olive Township Council Minutes
November 11, 2003


The Regular Meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council was called to order at 8:56 pm by Council President Guenther.

MOMENT OF REFLECTION in recognition of the men and women fighting terrorism and those who have lost their lives defending the freedom we all enjoy


According to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate Notice of this Meeting has been given to the Morristown Daily Record. Notice has been posted at in the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mt. Olive, New Jersey, and notices were sent to those requesting the same.

ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Scapicchio Mr. Spino, Mr. Greenbaum, Mr. Perkins, Mr. Guenther, Mrs. Miller Mr. Rattner
Absent: none

ALSO PRESENT: Cynthia Spencer, Business Administrator; Lisa Lashway, Township Clerk; Peter King, Township Attorney.

Proclamation & Presentation – Native American Indian Heritage Month

President Guenther: Now it gives me great pleasure to make a presentation of a proclamation of Native American Indian Heritage Month and to do a presentation to our soon to be moving on Council Member, Charlene Miller.

WHEREAS, Charlene Miller was the first Cherokee woman to serve on the Township of Mount Olive Council and has been actively involved in environmental causes for many years; and
WHEREAS, Charlene has volunteered her time and talents to make Mount Olive a better place to live; and
WHEREAS, Charlene has championed the cause for open space, water quality, and responsible development through her association with Mount Olive Environmental Commission, the Planning Board and The Open Space Committee; and
WHEREAS, the Cherokee people were the first of the Five Civilized Tribes and a proud people, who cared for the land and it's protection; and
WHEREAS, November is National Native American Month.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that I, Paul R. Licitra, Mayor of Mount Olive do hereby proclaim Tuesday, November 11, 2003 as Cherokee Heritage Day in Mount Olive to honor Charlene Miller and her Cherokee ancestors and do wish to thank her for the hard work and dedication to the residents of Mount Olive and Cherokee people around the world.

Mrs. Charlene Miller: I have learned about the Cherokee Heritage. I just introduced myself as Cherokee Bird Lady and I come from the place of the Honking Geese. I did borrow a Lenape name, which was the place that we now call Budd Lake. About five years ago I was researching my family history. I knew that we had Indian blood in us, but it took a lot of digging, but I found it in West Virginia on my father’s side we have English, Cherokee, German, then on my mothers side in Tennessee, we have Welsh, Cherokee German. So I am more Cherokee- German than anything I’ve met some wonderful Cherokee people. We have a Cherokee Community right here in our Township, not too many people know about it. We teach Cherokee language every second and forth Sunday in the Old Church of the Mystic Light on Bartley Road. I have learned all sorts of Cherokee customs, I have participated in numerous ceremonies. I actually achieved my name at a naming ceremony up in Sussex County and I was given the name Ageya Tsisqua from the Cherokee Elders in Georgia and then that name was given to me at followed by a Pipe Ceremony. I also participated in other naming ceremonies and a Cherokee wedding. I have been to a sweat lodge and I have learned a lot of our Cherokee customs. The latest thing was I went through a Right of Passage and I am now an Elder-in-training which means that I am learning from the Elders of the Cherokee Nation, so that I can turn around and teach future generations about our Cherokee Heritage. The Cherokee people feel that if you have once drop of Cherokee blood in you, that you are indeed Cherokee, actually most of the Native Americans today are reaching out for their lost ones those half breeds, those ones that just have a little bit of Indian blood in them. There
Mrs. Miller (cont’d): is a strong desire to bring out the old tradition and teach anyone who is interested or has any Native blood in them. I find it is really a fast moving movement and I am really excited about being wrapped up in it. I am sorry to be leaving the Council but I know that the Cherokee Nation is in need of people and they have invited me to Kansas to do some teaching. I am one of the few people to do the finger weaving, these are finger weaving belts and they want me to come and teach the children. I have also been trying to learn all of the oral stories, and I am going to be a story teller. So I am going to be traveling around to pass on these traditions at other Cherokee communities. I have another community that needs me now.

Questions on Bill List? - NONE



Resolutions, Ordinances, Correspondence from other Municipalities

1. Noticed received October 29, 2003 from the Borough of Netcong Concerning Adoption, Revision, or Amendment of the Borough of Netcong Municipal Master Plan.

2. Resolution received November 3, 2003 from the Township of Greenwich Opposing the State’s Actions Concerning the “Property Tax Reimbursement Program.”

3. Resolution received November 6, 2003, from the Town of Boonton regarding support of Senate Bill S-838 Which would prohibit Punitive Damage Awards against Municipalities and Municipal Employees Acting within the Scope of Authority.

League of Municipalities

4. Letter received October 31, 2003 from the New Jersey State League of Municipalities regarding a League Seminar on December 4, 2003.

Legislative Representatives

5. Letter received October 27, 2003 from the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders regarding the Morris County Prescriptions savings plan.

6. Letter received October 30, 2003 from Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen Regarding Highlands Legislation.

7. E Newsletter update received October 31, 2003 from Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen.

State of New Jersey

8. Email received October 27, 2003 regarding The Availability of the Commissioner’s Report from the Department of Community Affairs.
County of Morris

9. E-mail received from the Morris County Chamber of Commerce regarding a Luncheon Event and seminar on County Government’s Leadership in the Preservation of Open Space Farmland and Historical Sites.

10. Minutes received October 29, 2003 from the Morris County Planning Board Meeting held on September 18, 2003.


11. Copy of a Permit received October 29, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding Toll Brothers. The permit is for the construction and operation of a sanitary sewer extension, force main and pump station to serve the proposed residential development known as “Morris Chase”.

12. Letter received October 29, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection regarding Transition Area Waiver for Block 8400 Lots 5, 6 & 7.Mount Olive Township, Morris County.

13. Letter received October 29, 2003 from the Department of Environmental Protection stating that no further action is necessary for Block 2211, Lot 9; 17 Chickadee Road, Mount Olive Township, Morris County

Correspondence from Organizations / Committees / Boards

14. Letter received October 27, 2003 from the New Jersey Risk Management Fund regarding Municipal Stormwater Regulation Program Seminars

15. Letter received October 29, 2003 regarding Relay For Life of Mount Olive For 2004.

16. Letter received October 31, 2003 regarding Relay For Life of Mount Olive For 2004.


17. Email received October 30, 2003 regarding a Seminar on practical Solutions for Non-Techies Sponsored by, Alliant Technologies, Kolaco and CM IT Solutions.


18. Complaint received November 6, 2003, from Courter, Kobert & Cohen regarding Toll N.J. V v. The Township of Mount Olive.

President Guenther: Any comments on any items of correspondence that we have here? Seeing none.


President Guenther opened the public hearing on:

Ord.#39-2003 An Ordinance of the Township of Mount Olive Establishing a Safety Zone Around the Intersection of Flanders Netcong Road and Corey Road and the Undeveloped Areas of Flanders Netcong Road.

President Guenther closed the public hearing on Ord.#39-2003.

Mr. Scapicchio moved for adoption of final passage of Ordinance 39-2003. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Guenther declared Ordinance #39-2003 as passed on second reading and directed the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish a notice of adoption as required by law.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on Ord.#43-2003.

Ord. #43-2003 Bond Ordinance Amending Bond Ordinance #24-03 of the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey Finally Adopted May 27, 2003, in Order to Amend the Description of the Flanders Rescue Squad Project (generators, equipment, radios, pagers).

President Guenther closed the public hearing on Ord.#43-2003.

Mr. Rattner moved for adoption and final passage of Ordinance #43-2003. Mr. Scapicchio seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously

President Guenther declared Ordinance #43-2003 as passed on second reading and directed the Clerk to forward a copy of same to the Mayor and publish a notice of adoption as required by law.

ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING (Second Reading – November 25, 2003)

Ord. #44-2003 Bond Ordinance Amending Section 3(1) of Bond Ordinance Numbered 37-2002 of the Township of Mount Olive, in the County of Morris, New Jersey Finally Adopted September 24, 2002 in Order to Amend the Description of the Project. (publication error – previous Ord. #42-2003 -Turnout Gear for Flanders Fire and Rescue)

Mr. Greenbaum moved that Ordinance 44-2003 be introduced by title and passed on first reading and that a meeting be held on November 25, 2003 at 7:30 pm at the Municipal Building, 204 Flanders-Drakestown Road, Mount Olive New Jersey for a public hearing and consideration of second reading and passage of said ordinance and that the Clerk be directed to publish post and make available said ordinance in accordance with the requirements of the law. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


Resolutions on the Consent Agenda List are considered to be routine and non-controversial by the Township Council and will be approved by one motion (one vote). There will be no separate discussion or debate on each of these resolutions except for the possibility of brief clarifying statements that may be offered. If one or more Council member requests, any individual resolution on the Consent Agenda may be removed from the Consent Agenda List and acted on separately.


1. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the Director of the Division of Local Government Services for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2003 Municipal Budget ($19,421.64 for Drunk Driving Enforcement Fund).

2. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Requesting Approval from the Director of the Division of Local Government Services for Insertion of a Specific Item of Revenue into the 2003 Municipal Budget ($5,214 for Public Health Priority Funding Grant).

3. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Cancellation of Two Grant Balances.

4. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Cancellation of General Capital Improvement Authorization Balances.

5. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to the Liberty Store and Universal Uniforms for Uniforms for DPW, Police and Dispatchers.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Manpower and a Quality Temp for the Year 2003-2004 for Temporary Services for Mount Olive Township.
7. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Precision Excavating and Benkendorf Landscaping for the Year 2003-2004 for Snowplowing Services for Mount Olive Township.

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Approval of the Expansion of Mount Olive Village Sewer Franchise Area to Include Block 7900 Lot 3.01 (new Library).

9. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Return of EDU’s From Block 106 Lot 1 & 2 Metso Minerals Industries, Inc. (Dynapac)

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Prohibiting Hunting on Mount Olive Township Municipally Owned Property and Authorizing the Posting of “No Hunting” Signs on Mount Olive Property.

11. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Steve Morrison and Neal Senatore (Block 4500 Lot 3.01 – Goldmine Rd.).

12. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Steve Morrison and Neal Senatore (Block 4500 Lot 3.02 – Goldmine Rd.).

President Guenther: We had some suggestions to move No. 6 and No. 8. Anything else?

Mr. Spino: No. 10.

President Guenther: Okay.

Mrs. Miller moved resolutions 1 through 5, 7, 9, 11, and 12. Mr. Perkins seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Public Comments? Seeing none, Council Comments? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously. Mr. Scapicchio voted yes on all with the exception of voting no on No. 9


6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Manpower and a Quality Temp for the Year 2003-2004 for Temporary Services for Mount Olive Township.

8. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Approval of the Expansion of Mount Olive Village Sewer Franchise Area to Include Block 7900 Lot 3.01 (new Library).

10. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Prohibiting Hunting on Mount Olive Township Municipally Owned Property and Authorizing the Posting of “No Hunting” Signs on Mount Olive Property.

13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Gen III Builders for Fox Chase Section I Based on Final Subdivision Approval.

President Guenther opened the public hearing on the Non-Consent Resolutions.

Bob Elms, Budd Lake: On No. Six, I want to make sure that this contract does not limit these two services for the year 2004 since there may be some changes made in the Administration and whether or not they want to use those, or go out for more for other temporary services. That does not tie us in to those for 2004, does it?

Mrs. Spencer: We actually just went out to bid and this is to make the award of that contract starting at this time. Although the bid packages were picked up by about 10 companies, only three came back as bidders for these clerical services only. This does not prohibit bidding for any other type of service but clerical would be tied in for a 12 month contract.

Mr. Elms: Do we want to do that?

Mrs. Spencer: Our current contract is expiring so we would not have any available mechanism to hire a temp to cover for vacations, or prolonged illness, which is what we use this contract for.

Mr. Spino: This is not hiring a person for the year; this is the ability to these companies to hire for a temporary position when someone is hurt or sick.

Mr. Elms: My question is; are we limiting ourselves in 2004 to those companies.

Mr. Spino: I don’t believe we are because we could always add them.

Mrs. Spencer: No you can’t, this is competitively bid and by classification it is awarded to the lowest responsible bidder.

Mr. Rattner: I think one of the issues that comes up is that when you know you are going to spend, cumulatively in a certain expense classification over the bid number, you have to go out and bid. You are not allowed to hire
Mr. Rattner(cont’d): anybody separately. We would not have the availability to go out and bring in temporary service. We went out to bid these accounts. That is what the bidding is all about. You go out, you tell everybody, we have been spending over $17,000 a year which means that we cannot do this type of purchase without going out to bid.

Mr. Greenbaum: I don’t understand what your concern is Bob, perhaps you can explain that a bit further.

Mr. Elms: My concern is that we are tying up the incoming administration for these two suppliers of services.

Mr. Greenbaum: It is a bid contract.

Mr. King: I think what it is, it’s a bid contract for potential services for a fill in. So the administration or the administrator who is here for next year would either have that opportunity to them to either get a temporary person or not go to them. You wouldn’t be binding a further restriction.

Mr. Elms: You are not limited to those?

Mr. King: You are because this temp company, they were the lowest responsible bidder and they are the cheapest person you can go to for I guess a dollar amount for a secretary or for a worker. I don’t know, I didn’t see what they bids were, but they are the lowest bidder for those services. So, if another administration was going to go out, they would go out to these people if they need to fill someone for a week or a day.

Mr. Elms: Thank you.

Ned McDonald, Budd Lake: Resolution No. 10; I agree that there should not be hunting on this municipally owned property, I think it is a good idea that it is so designated however I am troubled by what was proposed at the last meeting, of having a private citizen go out on their own with essentially no supervision, just giving a bunch of signs and saying here post the land. I don’t think that is right. If the land is going to be posted, I think a municipal employee who is supervised should do it. Also, before any land is posted the metes and bounds of this land should be known precisely so that the signs are only on the Municipal Lands. Finally, are all municipal lands going to be posted? The way this is worded it looks like some of them will be, and some possibly will not be. If there are municipal lands that are not posted, I don’t believe that the “no hunting” regulation should be enforced because it’s a little bit misleading to have a piece of land without signs, and then you get a hunter on there and then take them to court or whatever for “no hunting”, where some are posted, some are not. It becomes very confusing. So if it is going to be posted, all municipal land should be posted.

President Guenther: Ned, I believe and again someone correct me if I am wrong, I thought that came up at the last meeting when the gentleman was here who was going to take the signs out. I believe he was put into contact with Jim Lynch so that situation would not occur. In other words, Jim, I guess, would have a surveyor, some responsible party from the Town supervising his activity in putting up the sign. In fact, he originally suggested putting up his own sign, and we said wait a minute, we have the sign. So I believe that was going to happen. Cindy, am I right about that?

Mrs. Spencer: You are correct, Jim is providing signs and he will be making sure that this gentleman knows exactly the boundaries and the height at which the signs must be posted. However I should note that we do not have metes and bounds descriptions. At least Jim could not find them on all of the Township properties yet. We are putting together a list of what we would need. So at this point we’re looking since it is already hunting season, to post the parcels that are five acres or larger, where we have clear definition.

President Guenther: Ned, the resolution says the policies to be determined by the administrator. In this case she is saying a policy of five acres or more.

Mr. McDonald What’s the policy on pieces of land that are smaller than five acres?

Mrs. Spencer: We have not had the opportunity to clearly delineate them. We have not been able to find all of the surveys so we don’t want to take it upon ourselves at this juncture to try and rush and get signs up if we don’t know what the boundaries are.

Mr. McDonald: And if we discover hunters on those small parcels, what’s the policy then?

Mr. King: If I can just answer, the State governs this, and hunters can’t hunt within 450 feet of…

Mr. McDonald: For hypothetical reasons, say that there is a small parcel of land, inhabited by a dwelling within 450 feet, and a hunter goes on there and goes deer hunting. What is the policy of the Township with regard to that hunter?

Mrs. Spencer: Someone would have to report that he or she was hunting for the police to be called out.

Mr. McDonald: Would the hunter be given a warning?

Mrs. Spencer: I don’t know the answer to that. I could certainly find out.

Mr. McDonald: My feeling is that it could be a bit misleading and a bit unfair if hunters see all this land posted and then they find this other piece that is not posted, it could tend to lead them to believe that it’s not Township land.
Mrs. Spencer: Then they would think that they were on private property.

Mr. McDonald: It could be the State park land or something, a piece of land that is open for hunting and the State Park does not post the edges of their land. Inadvertently a hunter could go onto a piece of municipal property. I just hate to see a hunter in a position where it is a bit misleading. I think that they should be given the benefit of the doubt in a case like that.

Mr. Rattner: I don’t think this resolution is ready for prime time. I read it. I know that Mr. Spino is the one who asked to take it off and have it discussed separately. I am not a hunter. I never was and I probably never will be. I will eat the proceed though. If I look at the second whereas, it says about various complaints from citizens about hunting on Township property in close proximity to residential neighborhoods. The third whereas is because we have property that is located near residential neighborhoods and for recreation. The fourth whereas agrees that hunting on municipal property which is located near residential areas or what we use for recreation should not be used for hunting. Then the last for now says, but we are going to ban hunting no matter where it is. Not just those specific areas. Then the last thing is further that the Township administrator is only going to set up a policy for putting up the signs for areas near residential or recreational areas not in maybe far away areas which the previous now therefore has already banned, so it is inconsistent. I am not ready to ban hunting all together where it may be appropriate. There are a lot of citizens of the Township that still enjoy hunting. So looking at this, this is inconsistent. I don’t think people would know exactly what they can do and what they can’t do and that makes it just not ready.

Mr. McDonald: That is exactly my feeling on it.

Mr. Spino: I wasn’t going to mention it until we got more into this, but I agree. I think it should be taken off altogether. I, for one, think it should be done on a lot by lot basis, or property by property basis. You cannot compare an area, and I was not here for the meeting last time, I guess I was in Morristown, that I think Mr. Zebora brought up, that if I am not mistaken surrounded by residences to B&H. The B&H Property is 202 acres plus the additional that we got at the other end of it. In my opinion the Township should allow hunting on that property within certain parameters. They could be certain days during the hunting season No. 1. Maybe a notice should be put up and number 2 through a lottery system, or something like that, so you are very strict on the amount of people that could hunt on property on one time in one day, because if not, your not bringing professional hunters in there to take the game down. I agree with Steve, that there are a lot of people in town, that hunt both men and women. They have been hunting on some of these properties that goes back to revolutionary times. You are allowed to hunt in this Country, I just think by saying no hunting on all municipal properties is wrong. Certainly the ones that should be done, should be done. But the ones that I think should remain open to allow it on under certain parameters, we should do that.

Mr. McDonald: I just think things should be well defined before we…

President Guenther: I agree. I agree 100%. I don’t really understand the concern. I am reading this over and over again and it says the complaints are related to hunting on Township owned property which is located near residential development.

Mr. McDonald: That is sort of a vague term. To an antihunter, near is within three miles. I think Earls point that this should be defined and worked out.

President Guenther: Doesn’t our ordinance define 450 feet?

Mr. Rattner: This resolution says very plainly if you look, therefore be it resolved that the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive does hereby prohibit hunting on municipal owned property. Doesn’t say how close to anything. It says is now a complete ban. You can’t get any clearer than that.

President Guenther: I don’t read it that way, I ‘m sorry.

Mr. Spino: I certainly do.

Mr. Rattner: How can you not read it that way?

Mr. Spino: I don’t think you can read it any other way, that’s what it says.

Mr. Spino: Now therefore be it resolved says, township owned property. I just think and I have said this before that this is something that is going to take some work. You can’t prepare a resolution to do it, I think you have to first of all come up with a plan for properties like B & H, and other properties that the Township might acquire in the future.

President Guenther: Earl, I vehemently disagree with that and I’ll tell you why. That property was acquired several years ago and we posted it as no further hunting. Some people believe that they could do passive recreation on that. I am talking about a safety issue, that if somebody goes there and flies a kite or does something there, and it comes in conflict with a hunter, I don’t think you want to hear the results of that.

Mr. Spino: Why, do you think the hunter is going to shoot the person?

President Guenther: Absolutely.

Mr. Spino: Now I think you are going a little bit over board. As an antihunter I think you are going a little bit over board.

President Guenther: No.

Mr. Spino: You sure are.

Mr. McDonald: An accidental injury is one thing, but as you are putting a conflict with a hunter I think now you are categorizing that you have these arm crazed people that are going to shoot somebody with a kite.

President Guenther: When you take property and you post and you have announced that it is public open space and it could be used for the enjoyment of the community and you have posted it for five years since we have acquired it that it is no hunting and then all of the sudden you are going to change the policy.

Mr. Spino: I’ll tell you where they do it. They do it all over the State including Mendham. They do it in the County Parks, they allow hunting with certain parameters on certain days. I think that same thing should be done with this. You could limit it to certain size properties.

President Guenther: I guess when you retire we’ll name you the town warden to keep track of all this.

Mr. Spino: No, you won’t do that. All you have to do is design the ordinances correctly and have some kind of mechanism to put it into effect.

President Guenther: How about enforcing it?

Mr. Spino: Fine, do you want me to enforce it, I’ll enforce it. You have to wait two years before you can hire me though.

President Guenther: Why two years?

Mr. Spino: Don’t we have a limit when you could hire me after I leave the Council? I am leaving voluntarily by the way.

Richard Bonte, Budd Lake: First of all I agree with everything Mr. McDonald said, everything with what Mr. Spino said and everything with what Mr. Rattner said. Mr. Elms just reminded me that you cannot even enforce this, it is a resolution, this needs to be done by ordinance. But why you are doing it, and I hope that you defeat this issue tonight, back in the mid 1990’s on numerous occasions I came to this Council and on October 24, 2000 I came Mr. Bonte (cont’d): and not only addressed this issue with you, but gave you a letter, and with promise that something would be done. But nothing has been done. Three years have gone by. So I brought the letter back to you again. While you are protecting public property, let’s do something about protecting private property. This issue of people in town that hunt on lands that they don’t own has never been corrected. The problem is with the clubs primarily. There is no mechanism presently in this town that requires the clubs to know what is their land or land in many cases that they lease from other land owners. They don’t have the maps, they go out and they post what they think are the borders and every year the same thing happens on my specific piece of property. Over 300 feet into my property are posted signs because they think it is their property. I am going to give you again tonight, a copy of a letter I wrote this Council with a proposal and procedure where we need to create by ordinance a procedure that requires that anybody who hunts on land they don’t own, know what those boundaries are. Any club that leases land, would have to obtain a permit from the town. This is not to generate revenue, it is to show that to the town that they know where the boundaries of the land are, that they are hunting on. And that every hunter that hunts on that land, has a small little copy of the map and that the land is properly posted so that those hunters who go out there and hunt know the boundaries of the land. This is not antihunting, I am not planning on regulating hunting other than keep them off private property. I would like to see something done about it and maybe this is the time. If you defeat this resolution tonight, and research what needs to be done to put it together properly, I would like to see also included in here a procedure to control the people who hunt on private property when it is not their own. I’ll pass you out a copy of my proposal again; I would hope that you take action on it.

Mr. Greenbaum: So Rich, would it be your position as well that if we allow hunting on the Township property that individuals would still need to get the permit of similar type.

Mr. Bonte: I am not proposing that the individuals themselves get the permit, but the person who is planning on leasing the property has to get the permit. Otherwise for example I own 100 acres of land, and I am planning on leasing it to ABC hunting club. Before I do that I have to come to the Town and show the town that I have adequately posted this land and have provided ABC hunting club with maps that show them the boundaries of this land. So it is the obligation of the owner. So the Town is the owner of the land, should they decided that XYZ track be open for hunting, would basically certify to itself that it has adequately posted the boundaries of that land. And that each hunter who hunts on that land, if he was the member of a club, I realize with public access it is a little different than with a club, but people need to know where they can and can’t hunt.

Mr. Greenbaum: Concern you have is that someone will hunt on private property not knowing that it is private property. That concern is equally valid with regard to allowing hunting on public property because at some point public property leads to private property. So If you are talking about putting something into affect with regard to private property and were going to allow hunting on public property, we need to have the same type of mechanism put in place to ensure that someone who is hunting on land which they are allowed to hunt on which they don’t own, which they are not familiar with, is not going to stray from the property, is aware of the boundaries of the property, and is not going to encroach on private property. Would you not agree?

Mr. Bonte: I think one way to accomplish that would be a reverse posting. Basically you would post the inner bounds of the property with signs that say you are leaving the permissive hunting area and are now entering private property. I go out every year and post the back of my property yet the hunting club because they enter through a different area, they don’t see my signs when they post their signs, than they think they’re on their property.

Mr. Greenbaum: Then it would follow the same way. That you would have the owners of the private property post the same type of signs that say you are leaving the permissive hunting area. No further hunting is…

Mr. Bonte: Well, that is obviously one mechanism. The other is the Town might want to be proactive and show the borders to the people that are allowed to hunt to show them when they are getting near the edge of the Town owned property. I think in a municipal case that might be an advantageous way of doing it, it doesn’t put the burden on the homeowner, basically the town is taking the responsibility of showing where the limits of their boundaries are. Basically saying, yes you can hunt these 300 acres, but don’t go past these signs. Respect the private property rights.

Mr. Spino: I think what we should do if we are interested, and again this is obviously going to be done is contact other towns or through the League, towns that do allow hunting on their large parcels. If I am not mistaken, I believe Roxbury does that on one of their large parcels that they have acquired and we could find out what they do, if anything. They may just allow hunters to go on there. I have no idea how it is done. Are we going to follow my suggestion and contact the League and contact Roxbury?

Jerry Sheard, Budd Lake: I am addressing resolution number eight. I agreed with the resolution, however it did not go far enough. If you remember, last time I was here I talked about the water system. Why we have to hook up to the water system. This resolution just gave us the sewer which we are not going to do right away. So I will talk Mr. Sheard (cont’d): with the attorney and would like to have not only the resolution passed for the sewer but to include the Mount Olive Village’s Water Company as part of that resolution. That is where we have to increase the 1301.

President Guenther: The attorney informs me that he can amend it.

Mr. King: The resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive authorizing approval of the expansion of Mount Olive Village Sewer Franchise area and the Mount Olive Village Water Franchise area to include block 7900 lot 3.01.

Whereas, the new library is designated to be constructed on Block 7900 Lot 3.01, in the Municipality of Mount Olive in the County of Morris; and

Whereas the Mount Olive Village Sewer Franchise Area Borders Block 7900, Lot 3.01; and
Where as the new library will have various restrooms in it and as such needs to be conntected to a centralized sewer system and a water system;

Now therefore be it resolved by the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive that it is hereby authorize and approve the expansion of the Mount Olive Sewer Franchise Area and the Mount Olive Village Water Area to include the new library identified on the Mount Olive Tax Maps Morris County as Block 7900 Lot 3.01.

Mr. Sheard: To note, that is strictly the library property. That does not cover any other property accept for the library property.

President Guenther: Thank you Jerry. While we are on it, as Councilman Spino suggested; could we contact Roxbury Township to see what they do, or if you know of any other Long Hill, wherever, I don’t know, where they have such large track of land and see if we could come up with something?

Mr. Greenbaum: One other suggestion, I think that it relates back to a meeting, maybe last year or the year before when the hunting issue came up there were a bunch of individuals who indicated that they wanted to be notified in the event that there was some sort of hunting resolution or hunting issue which was being discussed by Council and if we have such a list, I believe that those people should be notified when this ordinance comes back before Council so that we can get there input as well.

Mr. Perkins made a motion a motion to table Resolution No. 10, Mr. Spino seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Okay, can I have a vote on tabling Resolution No. 10.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

President Guenther: Any other public comments from the public since we are still in public session. Okay, public comment portion on the non-consent resolutions is closed.

6. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Awarding a Contract to Manpower and a Quality Temp for the Year 2003-2004 for Temporary Services for Mount Olive Township.

Mr. Spino moved for adoption of Resolution No. 6. Mr. Greenbaum seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

Mr. Perkins moved for adoption of Resolution No. 8 as amended. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

13. Resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Mount Olive Authorizing the Execution of a Developer’s Agreement Between the Township and Gen III Builders for Fox Chase Section I Based on Final Subdivision Approval.

Mr. Scapicchio made a motion to approve Resolution No. 13. Mr. Rattner seconded the motion.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.


1. Approval of Raffle Application #2009 for the Mt. Olive Lions Club and Raffle Application #2010 and #2011for the Friends of the American Cancer Society of New Jersey.

Mr. Rattner moved for approval of raffle application as listed above. Mrs. Miller seconded the motion.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.

2. Bill List *& Supplemental Bill.

Mr. Greenbaum moved for approval of the Bill List and the Supplemental Bill List as presented.

President Guenther: Council Discussion? Seeing none.

ROLL CALL: Passed Unanimously.



Turkey Brook Report – Cindy Spencer

Mrs. Spencer: I don’t have an official report tonight. As the building project had been completed and no further work was done in the last two weeks, however Gene Buczynski, the Township Engineer, had received a call from Kyle Conti Construction advising that they were prepared to return to the park to fix the goal posts on the football field, as well as that they were intending to provide Gene with the as builts on the park.

Mr. Scapicchio: Cindy, I saw that email, and Gene questioned whether or not he should share with them the as builts that we have, and what was the outcome of that?

Mrs. Spencer: I believe Gene was directed not to do so at this point in time.

Mr. Scapicchio: Okay, thank you.

President Guenther: Did Kyle Conte ever present their readings, their as builts?

Mrs. Spencer: To the best of my knowledge, not yet. I believe its tomorrow, or the end of this week.

President Guenther: Okay, anybody else have any old business that they want to discuss?




Library Board Liaison Report

Mr. Scapicchio: Nothing to report, we have a meeting tomorrow night.

Recreation Liaison Report

Mr. Guenther: I think we have already presented the recommendation of the recreation director for this individual, we have already heard the presentation on that. Also there is a recommendation that came in too late, regarding a change in the composition, first of all the mission statement, I know the Recreation Advisory Committee is recommending changing administrative code. In essence what it involves is the change in the composition of the members, that there would be nine voting members, four voting members selected by the Recreation Advisory Committee appointed with Council approval to provide perspectives as needed. Then there will be five voting members appointed by the Mayor with Council approval. Each member shall serve for a period of three years. Then there will be four permanent Liaisons from Town Council, Board of Education, Mount Olive Township Council and Sports association’s presidents committee. The reason for this was we found that some of the sports associations Mr. Guenther (cont’d): were unevenly represented that it was best just to have one representative of their preference, in other words, let them meet together and send that representative to the recreation advisory committee. Also, that there be the four voting members recommended by the advisory committee and approved by the Council would be people representing various constituencies in town. For example, it would be senior citizens. Since youth is already represented through Mount Olive High School Student Council, probably not that but disabled people. We don’t know right now, but we have provided in there to provide prospective as needed. In other words, it needs the flexibility of the Recreation Advisory Committee to choose to make sure that certain constituencies are represented. Obviously we will be looking to the community to provide us input on that. But we want to make sure that all segments of the population have input in to recreation activities in the town, not just the sports associations. So that was the purpose of that. We’ll be taking that up the next time.

Board of Health Report

Mr. Perkins: Thank you Mr. President. There was no meeting. The next meeting is schedulaed for the first Thursday in December.

Planning Board

Mr. Greenbaum: The Planning Board meets on Thursday, there are two items for discussion. The first is the Master Plan. It was open for Public Comment at the last meeting of the Planning Board which I believe was in October. This session is simply for the Planning Board to discuss the Master Plan itself and I assume to vote on the Master Plan in terms of it’s recommendation and Council. But I do not believe that there will be any further public comment unless there are changes which are proposed. I believe that the changes which are going to be proposed may be very minor at best. Although there were some issues raised at the public hearing, which if changed in the current version of the master plan would be significant. But I am not sure that is going to happen. The other issue which is on for Thursday is the Rezamir application again, that is the parcel of land off of Drakestown and Shop Lane. It is an interesting application and worthy sitting in on if you have nothing to do on Thursday Night.

Board of Adjustment Liaison Report

Mr. Perkins: Mr. Guenther, nothing to report, they have a meeting set for this Monday.

Master Plan Committee Report

Mr. Scapicchio: Nothing more to add to what Rob said.

Open Space Committee Report

Mrs. Miller: We had our meeting last night, and basically I guess this is the waiting month. We have already put in the application for the County Grant, we are waiting to hear from that, I think it is going to happen next week, or the beginning of December.

Mr. Spino: They make the proposal to the freeholder, I believe on the 15th, I am not sure.

Mrs. Miller: We are really just waiting for some parcels to close, some to go into Farmland Presentation, so this is the waiting month.

President Guenther: Mr. Spino, is there a necessity for a representative of town government to be present at that meeting.

Mr. Spino: That would be nice but I don’t think there is a real need.

President Guenther: Okay.

Legislative Committee Report

Mr. Spino: I have no report at this time.

President Guenther: I think it is under the Legislative Committee we should make the added effort you know on the traffic issues, now that the elections are over with, Guy Gregg, and I would like the representatives to put that…

Mr. Spino: I did contact someone who could contact all those people and has a working familiarity with them, hopefully that will be done, I did that before election, but hopefully that could be done soon.

Pride Committee Liaison Report

Mr. Perkins: Nothing to report

Board of Education Liaison Report

Mr. Scapicchio: The High School referendum has been set for the 9th. They have not come up with the amount of dollars to be funded by the Mount Olive Tax Payers as of yet. They are waiting for that number, to come back from the state in terms of State funding.

Status of Committee RE: Lake/Environment Issue

Mrs. Spencer: That committee will be on the 25th at 6:00 pm. It meets quarterly unless there is an incident.

Mrs. Miller: Would you put a memo in my mailbox so that I remember that.

Mrs. Spencer: It goes out next Thursday.


Mr. Elms, Budd Lake: I sat in on the preliminary meetings for the high school expansions and renovation. One of the things that they urgently need is a second access. It appears that the school properties borders on the B & H property which boarders on Flanders Road, which would make an excellent second access so we don’t tie up Corey Road and that part of the intersection, the buses could go in one way and out the other way. I believe the school board is going to be making a presentation to the Council on what it is that they would need from Council to cooperate with to get this done. Probably at your next meeting you will see your proposal.

President Guenther: Anyone else from the public?

Mr. Bonte, Budd Lake: I would like to ask that the Council consider as rapidly as possible to go back to the old meeting schedule; workshops on one Tuesday and public meeting on the other for a variety of reasons. I know a lot of these meetings run very late, secondly I think there is a lot of value to the fact that you discuss something one week, have some time to think it over, maybe get some information and vote on it the next week. I think compressing everything into two nights a month is to much for a Town of this size. Secondly, I just want to comment. I don’t know if anybody else in this Town has ever received a library newsletter other than two days before the election. I lived here for thirty two years and I don’t ever recall getting a newsletter from the library, I realize that the newsletter said on the front, volume seven, number one. But I think somebody should look into this because I believe that the issuance of that newsletter was done for political purposes. A councilperson who was running for office, name was on the front page of that newsletter, and as I have said, I don’t ever recall ever getting a newsletter. If in fact this newsletter was sent out for some political benefit, I don’t think the tax payers of this town should have to pay for that.

President Guenther: I personally have received that newsletter before, it wasn’t the first time. I am not going to say I have received it on a regular basis, but I had received it earlier, especially since the construction of the…

Mr. Bonte: I think the first thing that the library ought to be required to do is to produce the previous copies of the newsletters that they have sent and show the receipts for the mailings.

Jerry Sheard: As president of the trustees, this is the first I have heard of playing on this. It was not sent out for any political reasons. Jane happens to be the vice president and she was the recipient of the Gala which has been in the works for a couple of months. That we had last week, that was the reason for the newsletter. That is why I was going to say for the Council people and the public that didn’t attend, I think it was a very good turn out. All the comments I have had so far have been positive and it went over for our second gala, it was very good. I Councilman Spino might want to say something on that since he was there. On the other thing, I will get you copies of the newsletter because we have had newsletters before.


President Guenther: Anyone else from the public? Seeing none, I’ll close the public hearing. Final council President Guenther (cont’d): comments? I just want to start off with something. I wrote a letter that you probably all received a copy of. As you probably all know by now, there was an incident at the transfer station regarding some radio active materials. I won’t bore you with the details, the bottom line was it wound up to be inconsequential. My main issues with the procedures that were followed were really with the DEP. I find the DEP in general to be a very non responsive and arrogant organization and the Department of Transportation as well by the way as we see from our dealings with them. I wrote a letter to commissioner Campbell where I criticized the procedures followed. The procedure is this. There is a load of solid waste that has taken to the Pennsylvania landfill and it tests radioactive. They send it back to the originating facility meaning our transfer station. I find that completely unacceptable. I think that it should be isolated ether at the site or some designated facility the DEP has to examine, not to take it back here to examine in some way. I am told that usually these things; I can’t find the right word. They say they do occur with some frequency. They have not occurred that frequently at this particular transfer station, but they have occurred at other transfer stations. So it is not something uncommon. It is usually just a piece of medical waste that is found and usually just by isolating it and letting it sit for two days, it dissipates, okay. My main contention is you don’t know what it is when you identify it at the Pennsylvania landfill and you should take all precaution because it could be something dangerous. Somebody could be a terrorist type of thing, who knows? Nowbody knows and it should not come back here; so hopefully we will get an answer from them and the DEP, was I thought kind of caviler about the whole thing and when the issue first came up, they didn’t even respond to the phone calls from our people. They just ignored them and then the load automatically came back to us and then they had a jurisdictional dispute between the DEP and the County prosecutor’s office. The County prosecutor viewed it as something worthy of an investigation and it might have been something criminal, so hopefully we will get a response. I don’t hold up much hope that they will change the procedures, but at least I felt there was an interest of the Township’s to state our case.Any other council comments?

Mr. Greenbaum: I just wanted to report on our site inspection at the Second Street Woodland Estates. As fortunate as it may be, it started pouring very hard while we were at the site which was similar to what happened when we were at Stephens Mill. Gene was there, Ray was there, I was there, Colleen was there and maybe 20 residents or so. John Mania was there as well. We were able to at least address some of the concerns that the residents had about tree removal and in fact the trees that were removed from are those which were identified on the tree removal plan that was before the Planning Board. Perhaps the Planning Board should have been more specific as to when the draw down tests were to be done because the residents had concerns about why are you taking down all the trees if ultimately you don’t have water on the site. The likelihood of having water on the site is minimal, if not zero, but a valid point non the less, why disturb the land on the other side, in order to get the equipment in there to drill the wells, you need to remove trees. So we discussed that as well, and we all came to the conclusion that the resolution allowed them to do the draw down test and anytime prior to coming back for final approval. It is a site where preliminary approval was given, final approval was not given. The other issue and I think the benefit of having gone to the site is that we were able to address minor street flooding problem which has been complicated by the soil remediation efforts at the site and hopefully through the removal of certain cloth and the installation of gravel that, that flooding situation will be somewhat abated during the heavy rain, but none the less there is still an issue on that particular piece of roadway with that particular piece of flooding. I am sure it has been there for ever. I know the town had looked at it and I would just pass it along to the new administration to take a look at that piece of property to see if there is some solution to abating the flooding situation because in the wintertime it can be a hazard.

President Guenther: Thank you Rob.

Mr. Spino: Just to say that I passed on to Mr. Dorsey some material that I got from Mr. Buzak. He is also working on at the planning board level for development of some ordinances and I hope that is done as soon as possible. That’s it.

Mr. Greenbaum: I am sorry to but back in, but Mr. Buell actually raised an issue with regard and I think something should be adopted. about posting any work which is done in town by way of site plan. The applicable noise ordinance contacts within the township and that should be available to the residents so that they know what the law is, they know who the contacts are in case there are problems at the site. I think it is a very good suggestion by Mr. Buell and should in some way be adopted by the Township as a resolution or ordinance.

President Guenther: What do we need for that?

Mr. King: We’d have to amend the noise ordinance to include the posting of the contacts to complete.
It should be made part of any final site plan or any site plan approval that they post a sign at the entrance to the property listing the applicable ordinances in length.

Mrs. Lashway: So it wouldn’t be an amendment to the noise ordinance?

Mr. Greenbaum: No. I don’t know how we go about doing it, but I would like to…

Mr. Perkins: How about the notification with the Land Use? Send it out with that.

President Guenther: Okay.

President Guenther made a motion to adjourn, all in favor, none opposed. The meeting adjourned at 10:05 pm.


Steven W. Rattner
Council President


I, LISA M LASHWAY, Township Clerk of the Township of Mount Olive do hereby certify that the foregoing Minutes is a true and correct copy of the Minutes approved at a legally convened meeting of the Mount Olive Township Council duly held on January 20, 2004.



Mount Olive Township Clerk








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